Why do apple defenders not use this (genuinely alright) argument for the high prices

[CentreMetre]

I really dont like apple, from their attitude of "Yes, you *may* do this with your device" or "Look, we added this revolutionary new thing called USB, look how good we are" to "Look how environmentally friendly we are" whilst disallowing, and going out of their way to stop, repairs of phone. But, i can see why the prices may be high, if not exactly for the hardware you buy, but for the long term *software* support you get.

 

Devs cost money, alot of money, and you wouldnt be able to support phones long term without that money. Also the R&D that (i assume) goes into (some) things, like retina display, and other i assume.

 

I will admit the seamlessness between devices is genuinely amazing, i would love to use apple devices for that alone. And the physical devices feel premium aswell.

 

But their attitude towards customers, prices, locked down software (side loading not allowed for example), makes me not even want to ever touch an apple device, let alone spend hundreds of pounds on one. (similar reasons why i hate microsoft/windows and dont use windows anymore).

 

What i think the reason for these exorbitant prices are, are that they are there to help subsidise the software team, R&D team, and any other time that doesnt directly make money, like £100s for ram, or storage on a Mac PC, or soldering those onto the board (which i think can have legit performance advantages, but im not 100% sure). Things like that seemlessness between devices probably wasnt easy/cheap.

 

Are there any apple fan(boys) out there who ever thought of this? Any apple hating absolutists that ever though of this? Anyone inbetween?

 

And before anyone jumps down my throat, this isnt me saying "Dont buy apple" or "Do buy apple", im just curious on peoples thoughts, and wanted to put my mind out there. You can do what you want, support them or not. But, at the very least, like when buying *anything*, look at what that company does, if you hate perfectly good tech being turned into landfill filler, maybe dont support apple. If you really like the ecosystem, and want to be apart of it, be apart of it. Also i dont know everything, if i made a mistake please correct me, preferably without jumping down my throat.

 

TL:DR: Why dont people use the "the long term software support" is what makes it alright, or at least not as bad.

[Mark Kaine]

They do... good build quality and software support... everything else is utter shite with apple, not sure what you're on about. 

[BethQuentin]

43 minutes ago, CentreMetre said:

Why dont people use the "the long term software support" is what makes it alright, or at least not as bad.

Because a whole lot of phone people upgrade their phones more often than Apple supports them for anyway.

This is conjecture, but I would bet dollars to donuts that Apple picked planned obsolescence after just six years on purpose: I bet this is the shortest amount of time that they think will cover enough people upgrade to upgrade that losing support after only 6 years will never blow up in their faces at a scale that will affect their business in any meaningful way. Part of their "economic moat" or whatever.

 

To be clear, Apple isn't the only business doing this, and in the phone space at least, 6 years appears to be a very long time.

[CentreMetre]

4 minutes ago, BethQuentin said:

Because a whole lot of phone people upgrade their phones more often than Apple supports them for anyway.

This is conjecture, but I would bet dollars to donuts that Apple picked planned obsolescence after just six years on purpose: I bet this is the shortest amount of time that they think will cover enough people upgrade to upgrade that losing support after only 6 years will never blow up in their faces at a scale that will affect their business in any meaningful way. Part of their "economic moat" or whatever.

 

To be clear, Apple isn't the only business doing this, and in the phone space at least, 6 years appears to be a very long time.

That is the bit that kinda confuses me about apple, and makes my argument fall apart a bit, apple fans just buy the new one every year, but there will be some people who take advantage of the 6 year support window. Also never thought about the 6 years being specifically picked, interesting idea there, that thats the limit apple users will accept, without also going to long that it eats into their profits.

 

Edit: Also yea other phones having the same time but being cheaper, which i think it what your point was, sorry if i mis interpreted it, does add another hole into my theory, but they do also have the entire ecosystem and they do/did innovate on stuff like i mentioned in my OP.

[BethQuentin]

5 minutes ago, CentreMetre said:

Also yea other phones having the same time but being cheaper

I meant to say that 6 years is up there with the longest guaranteed support terms in the phone space.

[CentreMetre]

19 minutes ago, BethQuentin said:

I meant to say that 6 years is up there with the longest guaranteed support terms in the phone space.

Ah ok, thanks for the clarification.

[Vilacom]

1 hour ago, CentreMetre said:

I really dont like apple, from their attitude of "Yes, you *may* do this with your device" or "Look, we added this revolutionary new thing called USB, look how good we are" to "Look how environmentally friendly we are" whilst disallowing, and going out of their way to stop, repairs of phone. But, i can see why the prices may be high, if not exactly for the hardware you buy, but for the long term *software* support you get.

 

Devs cost money, alot of money, and you wouldnt be able to support phones long term without that money. Also the R&D that (i assume) goes into (some) things, like retina display, and other i assume.

 

I will admit the seamlessness between devices is genuinely amazing, i would love to use apple devices for that alone. And the physical devices feel premium aswell.

 

But their attitude towards customers, prices, locked down software (side loading not allowed for example), makes me not even want to ever touch an apple device, let alone spend hundreds of pounds on one. (similar reasons why i hate microsoft/windows and dont use windows anymore).

 

What i think the reason for these exorbitant prices are, are that they are there to help subsidise the software team, R&D team, and any other time that doesnt directly make money, like £100s for ram, or storage on a Mac PC, or soldering those onto the board (which i think can have legit performance advantages, but im not 100% sure). Things like that seemlessness between devices probably wasnt easy/cheap.

 

Are there any apple fan(boys) out there who ever thought of this? Any apple hating absolutists that ever though of this? Anyone inbetween?

 

And before anyone jumps down my throat, this isnt me saying "Dont buy apple" or "Do buy apple", im just curious on peoples thoughts, and wanted to put my mind out there. You can do what you want, support them or not. But, at the very least, like when buying *anything*, look at what that company does, if you hate perfectly good tech being turned into landfill filler, maybe dont support apple. If you really like the ecosystem, and want to be apart of it, be apart of it. Also i dont know everything, if i made a mistake please correct me, preferably without jumping down my throat.

 

TL:DR: Why dont people use the "the long term software support" is what makes it alright, or at least not as bad.

Because apple "defenders"(which i read mostly as fanboys) don't need any other reasons to defend apple, they have whatever makes them a fan and probably don't look too hard for additional reasons.

It's important to realize that the vast majority of people(and I do mean vast majority) just don't care about things like reparability, long term software support, etc etc.  All that actually matters is does it work in a way they like for the stuff they do day to day.  Which 99% of all phones do now, so its purely an aesthetic/user experience choice which Apple does very well.  

[saintlouisbagels]

2 hours ago, CentreMetre said:

TL:DR: Why dont people use the "the long term software support" is what makes it alright, or at least not as bad.

Pretty sure that's the main reason why most Android users jump ship.

5/6 major OS updates and a guaranteed smooth (but boring) experience are very both extremely important things when you get over the desire to upgrade every 1-2 years.

I'm utterly bored of my 14 Pro and the Android side has looked very compelling these last 3 years, but I'm very comfortable with iOS. With this recent 16 event I wish they had more things to show off, but I'm totally indifferent to Apple Intelligence.

[Kisai]

4 hours ago, CentreMetre said:

TL:DR: Why dont people use the "the long term software support" is what makes it alright, or at least not as bad.

They do.

 

Apple products work out of the box, work with all your other stuff, not just Apple things, though some things are a bit frustrating (eg Fitbit having an app that doesn't worth with Apple Health, but a third party app will sync this anyway) because the app developer wants you to subscribe to a useless cloud service. Store my data, on the device. Let Apple cloud back up if it matters.

 

But you look across the pond to the Android ecosystem and everything is ads-ads-ads-ads-ads and stuff not working with anything else. Throw-away phones. Why would I opt into that? You know who does? People who don't use anything on their phone.

 

 

[ImorallySourcedElectrons]

7 hours ago, CentreMetre said:

Also the R&D that (i assume) goes into (some) things, like retina display, and other i assume.

I hate to break it to you, but a lot of those things are done by off-the-shelf parts that Apple buys. It's just that most manufacturers are afraid to pump up the price to be able to include the latest generation of fancy display/sensor/... because they don't have a customer base that will blindly follow whatever the turtleneck sweater messiah says.

 

Apple does make neat software, though I absolutely despise their UI choices in many instances.

[Motifator]

3 hours ago, Kisai said:

They do.

 

Apple products work out of the box, work with all your other stuff, not just Apple things, though some things are a bit frustrating (eg Fitbit having an app that doesn't worth with Apple Health, but a third party app will sync this anyway) because the app developer wants you to subscribe to a useless cloud service. Store my data, on the device. Let Apple cloud back up if it matters.

 

But you look across the pond to the Android ecosystem and everything is ads-ads-ads-ads-ads and stuff not working with anything else. Throw-away phones. Why would I opt into that? You know who does? People who don't use anything on their phone.

 

 

If you hold a decent amount of stuff, holding it on the cloud makes sense to keep the phone storage more free. This is also being done with Google.

What are you talking about with Android and everything being ads and not working with anything else? If you're say talking about mobile gaming, both camps get the advertisements.

Yeah throw-away phone, tell that to my Realme rocking like its first day after like 4 years now. I can use power saving mode and it doesn't actually disable the little cores when you do that. CrApple does. Sure, it's stopped getting system updates but eh, other than that it's still a well holding phone. Let me see your 4 year old Apple phone, probably been throwaway, lol. I do use some stuff on this phone, it's solid still. Got Dolby certification and a massive speaker up top with another down the bottom. Audio wise it's easily up there with LG stuff. Battery lasts many days, actually battery lasts more than an iPhone 15 Pro. Also the price is like holy cow with Apple, especially in 3rd world countries. You can like... buy TWO high end BBK phones for the price of ONE iPhone. They have insane revenue.

[Kisai]

7 minutes ago, Motifator said:

If you hold a decent amount of stuff, holding it on the cloud makes sense to keep the phone storage more free. This is also being done with Google.

 

No, that just means the device was under-sized from the get-go. If the app will not work without internet, and doesn't have a good reason for internet access, then it should work even when I'm on the plane or train in the boonies. You know what happened back when I had the ipad 3? All the music "apps" other than what I loaded itunes ceased working as soon as it got out of 3.5G area.

 

7 minutes ago, Motifator said:

What are you talking about with Android and everything being ads and not working with anything else? If you're say talking about mobile gaming, both camps get the advertisements.

App on iPhone "rarely do you see an 'ad-supported' app, it's almost entirely "pay for app"

 

App on Android "interrupted by ads every 3 minutes"

 

Between the toxic ads-supported ecosystem on Android and the low-quality hardware, I swore off ever investing in it.

 

7 minutes ago, Motifator said:

 

Yeah throw-away phone, tell that to my Realme rocking like its first day after like 4 years now.

The iPhone 6S died due to the iOS update disabling charging on the device, and thus stuck in a catch-22 of I can't charge it, nor can I get into the device to deactivate whatever feature causes it. $$$$. I bought the XS because I needed something "now" and wasn't going to wait for someone to fix it. So sure, that phone only lasted 3 years, but the XS is on year 6. You know what I had before the 6S? a Nokia N95, from 2006 that I used right up to 2015. It also still works, but the UMTS (3.5g) network has largely been kicked to the curb since 2022. 

 

I've only ever replaced the cell phones due to obsoletion of the radio in them, not because "ooh shiny new device", even then I've only seen a few apps do a bait-and-switch where you paid for one, and then they discontinue that 1.99 app and replace it with a 19.99 one. To which I'm like, "no thanks." I'll find a non-scammer app.

 

 

[Motifator]

9 minutes ago, Kisai said:

No, that just means the device was under-sized from the get-go. If the app will not work without internet, and doesn't have a good reason for internet access, then it should work even when I'm on the plane or train in the boonies. You know what happened back when I had the ipad 3? All the music "apps" other than what I loaded itunes ceased working as soon as it got out of 3.5G area.

 

App on iPhone "rarely do you see an 'ad-supported' app, it's almost entirely "pay for app"

 

App on Android "interrupted by ads every 3 minutes"

 

Between the toxic ads-supported ecosystem on Android and the low-quality hardware, I swore off ever investing in it.

 

The iPhone 6S died due to the iOS update disabling charging on the device, and thus stuck in a catch-22 of I can't charge it, nor can I get into the device to deactivate whatever feature causes it. $$$$. I bought the XS because I needed something "now" and wasn't going to wait for someone to fix it. So sure, that phone only lasted 3 years, but the XS is on year 6. You know what I had before the 6S? a Nokia N95, from 2006 that I used right up to 2015. It also still works, but the UMTS (3.5g) network has largely been kicked to the curb since 2022. 

 

I've only ever replaced the cell phones due to obsoletion of the radio in them, not because "ooh shiny new device", even then I've only seen a few apps do a bait-and-switch where you paid for one, and then they discontinue that 1.99 app and replace it with a 19.99 one. To which I'm like, "no thanks." I'll find a non-scammer app.

Has nothing to do with the device being undersized. I have Xtool on my phone to do the car diagnose and it's about 20gb's with all the updates. Some stuff is actually large on the phone. I don't like having my phone filled with stuff I don't daily. Cloud exists for this reason.

Also, what apps are you talking about in specific?

Yeah there's your old Apple device, breaking itself and not being able to root properly because Apple and its dumb locks. The ecosystem might support ads, but guess what I've never gotten a SINGLE ad from the phone itself on this phone. I've gotten ads on mobile games, but you get those with Apple too. You should be used to it phone environment. Also by the time this phone came out, Apple was seemingly already making LCD phones with 60 Hz displays, small too. Talk about LOW QUALITY. Like an iPhone 11 which came out during the same era of this Realme, is a COMPLETE JOKE compared to this phone.

It's only been in the last years Apple started keeping up with the modern trends. Back in the older days, their phones were very lackluster on feature set compared to an Android. Like tiny screens, and hilarious hardware. 

Then you talk about the hardware on Androids being low-quality what are you on? Apple follows Androids when an Android comes up with new tech like 144 Hz screen, not the other way around.

[Blue4130]

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

App on Android "interrupted by ads every 3 minutes"

 

Between the toxic ads-supported ecosystem on Android and the low-quality hardware, I swore off ever investing in it.

 

The iPhone 6S died due to the iOS update disabling charging on the device, and thus stuck in a catch-22 of I can't charge it, nor can I get into the device to deactivate whatever feature causes it. $$$$. I bought the XS because I needed something "now" and wasn't going to wait for someone to fix it. So sure, that phone only lasted 3 years, but the XS is on year 6. You know what I had before the 6S? a Nokia N95, from 2006 that I used right up to 2015. It also still works, but the UMTS (3.5g) network has largely been kicked to the curb since 2022.

So you've never had a recent top tier android phone? I would 100% say that android has phones that are built JUST as good as iphones. Just don't expect to get it is the $250 phones. Xiaomi make fantastic high end phones. There is a reason that they sell more phones than Apple.

 

As for the ads everywhere, for every app that has ads, you can find an app that doesn't. You will just need to pay form some, just like apple.

[Motifator]

Apple also keeps the trend of having big front camera notches... and 15W charging. Like seriously, 15W charging in a $1200 phone, I read it even drops down to 7.5W with Magsafe at times. The GT5 charges at 240W now. Talk about... advancements.

[Kisai]

Look guys,

 

You can like or hate apple and it's devices, but trying to "justify" a purchase should be made on what fits your use case. My use case is "I want to buy something that I'm not going to be throwing away every 2 years." I've gone through 3 cell phones in 20 years. I'd say an average of 6-7 years is quite reasonable. That's been the one-and-only reason why Android has not been a compelling platform ... for me.

 

But then when I got into the development side, Android is utter hell. The hardware has never been compelling, and spending a lot of money for a flagship phone that only lasts 18 months was an utter joke. No thanks. Do they last longer now? Debatable. Apple never needed to go "our phones last 7 years" they just kept making newer iOS versions available until it's too large for their base models. Which was a problem I had with the iPad (I had to wipe nearly everything from it to update the OS the last time.)

 

Do not talk to me about Cloud stuff. Once again, exchanging "on device storage" for a cloud subscription is not a negotiable point. You need to pay 9.99/mo just to have enough storage to backup a full iphone device (and assuming you only have one of them.) So you're telling me I need to spend $120/yr (x 7 years = $840) just to avoid paying the $600 upgrade tax?!? Google is even worse here $13.99/mo ($168/yr x 7= $1176) for the same, their upgrade from base to top model is $500.

 

You're being ripped off if you're paying for cloud storage and being ripped off a second time if you're paying for additional "cloud features" for software that has no business being connected to the internet in the first place.

[Motifator]

27 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Look guys,

 

You can like or hate apple and it's devices, but trying to "justify" a purchase should be made on what fits your use case. My use case is "I want to buy something that I'm not going to be throwing away every 2 years." I've gone through 3 cell phones in 20 years. I'd say an average of 6-7 years is quite reasonable. That's been the one-and-only reason why Android has not been a compelling platform ... for me.

 

But then when I got into the development side, Android is utter hell. The hardware has never been compelling, and spending a lot of money for a flagship phone that only lasts 18 months was an utter joke. No thanks. Do they last longer now? Debatable. Apple never needed to go "our phones last 7 years" they just kept making newer iOS versions available until it's too large for their base models. Which was a problem I had with the iPad (I had to wipe nearly everything from it to update the OS the last time.)

 

Do not talk to me about Cloud stuff. Once again, exchanging "on device storage" for a cloud subscription is not a negotiable point. You need to pay 9.99/mo just to have enough storage to backup a full iphone device (and assuming you only have one of them.) So you're telling me I need to spend $120/yr (x 7 years = $840) just to avoid paying the $600 upgrade tax?!? Google is even worse here $13.99/mo ($168/yr x 7= $1176) for the same, their upgrade from base to top model is $500.

 

You're being ripped off if you're paying for cloud storage and being ripped off a second time if you're paying for additional "cloud features" for software that has no business being connected to the internet in the first place.

Let me tell you how much the XS sucks.

-

It came out close to the end of 2019 with the base model having only 64gb

Screen was 60 Hz only and 5.8 inches

It had 4gb RAM

It had 2650 mAh battery

It had a 12 mpixel lackluster camera, not even an AI cam right? Just two of the same sensor upside down...

It peaked out at 15W charge just like their latest phones lol

I know other companies do this as well, but it had a probably weaker-than-androids` glass back...

and it had a MSRP of $1000

-

This is literally throwaway phone at this time and date. More so, flagship Androids have been lasting last much longer than 18 months lately.

Moreover, Google Cloud is not as expensive as you made it up. It costs 500 liras for an annually payment (2 TB Premium package), that's like what... $18.

Say you don't understand it and move along...

[Kisai]

1 hour ago, Motifator said:

Moreover, Google Cloud is not as expensive as you made it up. It costs 500 liras for an annually payment (2 TB Premium package), that's like what... $18.

Say you don't understand it and move along...

Google One:

 

Apple iCloud alone:

Apple One:

These are Canadian prices for 2TB, since google won't show the USD price, and anything less would not be big enough to backup the device.

 

 

 

[Blue4130]

2 hours ago, Kisai said:

, and spending a lot of money for a flagship phone that only lasts 18 months was an utter joke. No thanks. Do they last longer now? Debatable.

Where are you getting this from? I've always bought the midrange phones and they last 6 years for me.

[Kisai]

1 hour ago, Blue4130 said:

Where are you getting this from? I've always bought the midrange phones and they last 6 years for me.

That was literately policy on Google's site as late as 2021.

It only became 7 years with the Pixel 8. The 6 was 5 and the 4 and 5 were 3. 

 

Samsung, not so much:

 

Compare Apple:

 

You see what I'm getting at right? There is no guarantee from an Android manufacturer that you're going to get 7 years. Apple guarantees that, every time. That's not the warranty period either. There is no excuse for any manufacturer to not match Apple.

 

[Blue4130]

38 minutes ago, Kisai said:

That was literately policy on Google's site as late as 2021.

 

 

It only became 7 years with the Pixel 8. The 6 was 5 and the 4 and 5 were 3. 

 

Samsung, not so much:

 

 

Compare Apple:

 

 

You see what I'm getting at right? There is no guarantee from an Android manufacturer that you're going to get 7 years. Apple guarantees that, every time. That's not the warranty period either. There is no excuse for any manufacturer to not match Apple.

 

I guess I am just more liberal with what "last" means. I don't care if the phone has the latest OS on it. As long as it continues to work and do what I need, I consider that "lasting". Lord knows that I used my Xiaomi 4 much longer than 2 years.

[Doobeedoo]

They're mostly targeted for Americans too. To them it's not expensive, most don't know about tech in general but go with herd mentality let's be real. But really most would be fine with a phone fraction of flagship price. Flagship phones bring quite the profit. 

 

[Blue4130]

1 hour ago, Doobeedoo said:

They're mostly targeted for Americans too. To them it's not expensive, most don't know about tech in general but go with herd mentality let's be real. But really most would be fine with a phone fraction of flagship price. Flagship phones bring quite the profit. 

 

You are joking right? You don't think that a $1000 phone is expensive to an American?

[Sauron]

20 hours ago, CentreMetre said:

TL:DR: Why dont people use the "the long term software support" is what makes it alright, or at least not as bad.

What do you mean? This literally always comes up in any apple related argument... and it's not even that relevant anymore considering samsung and others are now offering 4 years of android version updates, only 1 year less than some iphone models. Not to mention old iphones don't tend to perform very well on newer iOS versions.

 

We should just drop the pretense that iPhones, and phones in general, aren't bought primarily as fashion statements. Ask random people on the street who own an iphone and I assure you the vast majority won't have a clue for how long they can expect software updates, nor about the specs of the phone or how it compares to the competition. The same goes for most android phone owners of course. There are people who are willing to spend a grand or more on a phone because it fits their aesthetic taste or whatever, who will then buy iphones or flagship androids, and people who aren't and just buy an android phone within their budget.

[Doobeedoo]

1 hour ago, Blue4130 said:

You are joking right? You don't think that a $1000 phone is expensive to an American?

Let's be real compared to most world countries it's not really. We can argue it's expensive as in costly for what it is sure, but to average American it's not much vs many other places that earn numerous times less and can affort it still.