why games don't use additional screens?

[Muuh]

Based upon absolutely nothing but an uneducated wild guess in the blue I assume that more than 50% of the target audience of most big game studios have at least a second screen connted to thier system (this should have granted extra points in Scrapyard Wars 9). So the question comes up in my mind: Why no game make use of that addional screen estate?

 

Nintendo gave it a few tries: The gameboy DS series, connecting a gameboy advance to a gamecube, the Wii U ... so the concept isn't new, although I have to admit that only a few games made actual good use of the additional screen (taking aside the touch-input as input was also always possible via regular controller input - and when porting over to the pc the main input device is a mouse anyway).

 

To give an example: Since it was big nack in 2014 I really like RPG mods in combat games like Arma3: Altis Life or DayZ which evolved from a mod for Arma2 into a stand-alone.

One of the servers I played on made use of connecting your browser to your game session via its backend: You used it for additional informations and interactions so the game itself wasn't so overloaded to keep up the performance.

 

In games like Escape from Tarkov many players often have the maps up on thier 2nd screen as there's no in-game map - why not integrate such features? It could also be used for invenrory and overall stats.

 

Also RPGs could benefit of additional screen space as some can get quite overloaded with even small number of mods or have an always-open side-bar menu which can't be closed but offsets the main view point (which sometimes can be corrected by running the game in window mode and stretch it yourself).

 

So, there're several possibilities what to use additional screen space for - why not use it? Most of the time when I play a game it's limited to one screen and it can't display all information so have to use several menus. Why? I do have 3 screens - and most games are so overloaded with stuff they could make use of all 3 - why do devs have to squeeze all thier content into a single window/screen?

[DeerDK]

I imagine its a big bucket of worms for the developer to take into account. Spending extra time and ressources on making multiple versions of the UI with different setups in mind.

Not to mention the potential complexity (im not a dev, so I don't know much about it).

 

If the game REQUIRES multiple monitors, it will also severely limit who can play it, and which dev would want that?

 

You hit the head on the nail with Nintendo. They have tried this. Did they succeed? Not from what I have heard. It didn't really raise above "hardware gimmick" so they dropped it when they moved on to the Switch. (Of course, we don't know what the future will bring).

 

TLDR: Why should the Devs bother if they would only decrease the number of sales?

[GarlicDeliverySystem]

Because, as you stated, at best only 50% of the target audience have a second screen. I would also argue, probably a lot less in reality. Would be nice to see the stats from i.e. the steam hardware survey (if they exist). So the market is not that large to begin with and by requiring it you again would half the available player pool (best case).

 

Also, some people have that set to things specifically not in the game (discord, streams, wikis etc.). It would also mean you'd have to balance any competitive game against having the extra screen.

 

Seeing how quite a few games already fail to account for ultra-wide resolutions, I doubt we will be seeing most games cater to multi-monitor setups. Except where there are huge gains in immersion to be had, i.e. simulators, but those often already support these things.

[Holmes108]

1 hour ago, GarlicDeliverySystem said:

Because, as you stated, at best only 50% of the target audience have a second screen. I would also argue, probably a lot less in reality. Would be nice to see the stats from i.e. the steam hardware survey (if they exist). So the market is not that large to begin with and by requiring it you again would half the available player pool (best case).

 

 

Yeah, I feel (completely anecdotally) that way less than 50% of the average home user has more than 1 screen.

 

Edit: But yes, allowing things like maps and other info on a 2nd screen would be awesome. I remember playing through Black Flag with the companion app on a tablet, and it was really a game changer, to the point that I was annoyed more games didn't do it at the time.

[Renegade042]

4 minutes ago, Holmes108 said:

 

Yeah, I feel (completely anecdotally) that way less than 50% of the average home user has more than 1 screen.

 

Edit: But yes, allowing things like maps and other info on a 2nd screen would be awesome. I remember playing through Blag Flag with the companion app on a tablet, and it was really a game changer, to the point that I was annoyed more games didn't do it at the time.

 

RDR 2 has a companion app for map as well, only fully functional on PS though.

[Doobeedoo]

Not really worth it or beneficial outside of sim focused games with ton of controls for a vehicle or something.

[Mark Kaine]

because almost no one =/= 50%

 

 

 

 

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[Mark Kaine]

5 hours ago, Doobeedoo said:

Not really worth it or beneficial outside of sim focused games with ton of controls for a vehicle or something.

if they wanted they could use phone screens... pretty much everyone has one... but they don't want to and most people probably wouldn't want it either. 

 

 

i dont get why we can't use phones to monitor temps and stuff tho, i know there are apps... but do they really work?  

[Doobeedoo]

1 hour ago, Mark Kaine said:

if they wanted they could use phone screens... pretty much everyone has one... but they don't want to and most people probably wouldn't want it either. 

 

 

i dont get why we can't use phones to monitor temps and stuff tho, i know there are apps... but do they really work?  

There's AMD Link app, there were some other info sensor apps, can't remember, they did work fine afaik.

[Muuh]

well, unfotunately the steam hardware survey doesn't give any information about a ratio of how many users have a multi-monitor setup - the only metric given is that from those who do have multi-monitor about 56% seem to have 2x 1920x1080

but if these users are 50% of all users or just 5% is unknown

as for using additional devices: flight simulator seems to be way up the top there by supporting all kinds of additional stuff: one video I know the user explained he uses an old ipad with some special app which connects via wifi to the game instance and becomes the flight management computer

I also understand that many users who do have a 2nd screen use it for other stuff aside the game

as for additional workload in development: if done correctly there's pretty much none aside from a small bit of glue logic which can select between "integrated" menu for single screen or "external" for multi screen - although that's the best case and from a lot of bad gui code I've seen one can certainly be doing everything twice (but if your dev does this you as the boss should think about replacing that dev - as redoing things twice is waste)

as for nintendo and if they failed: can't really tell - thier implementations most fit my ideas: additional menus, maps, etc - it's what I would use a 2nd screen/window for

 

for some time I work on my own implementation of the board game Monopoly

quite early I figured I need at least two game windows: one for the main board itself and a second for the player with thier stats and controls

reason: I'm very bad with gui and hence only able to get done a very basic display - I'm far from such things as interactive overlays and I also dislike to switch the screen entirely between the main board view and the player data - I wanted to keep the board visible at all times while I also have the player infirmation and controls (rolling dice, buy houses, trade) accessible. I couldn't fit all together within a single main window so I just split it up

 

the idea about an additional app for your phone or tablets - I'm aware of that concept and IIRC I used one in the past myself - but can't remember the games name

 

anyway - using more than one screen is a concept I'd like to see more often used by modern games to make the main window/screen less overloaded and use available screen space

[DeerDK]

On 9/5/2024 at 7:43 AM, Muuh said:

well, unfotunately the steam hardware survey doesn't give any information about a ratio of how many users have a multi-monitor setup - the only metric given is that from those who do have multi-monitor about 56% seem to have 2x 1920x1080

but if these users are 50% of all users or just 5% is unknown

as for using additional devices: flight simulator seems to be way up the top there by supporting all kinds of additional stuff: one video I know the user explained he uses an old ipad with some special app which connects via wifi to the game instance and becomes the flight management computer

I also understand that many users who do have a 2nd screen use it for other stuff aside the game

as for additional workload in development: if done correctly there's pretty much none aside from a small bit of glue logic which can select between "integrated" menu for single screen or "external" for multi screen - although that's the best case and from a lot of bad gui code I've seen one can certainly be doing everything twice (but if your dev does this you as the boss should think about replacing that dev - as redoing things twice is waste)

as for nintendo and if they failed: can't really tell - thier implementations most fit my ideas: additional menus, maps, etc - it's what I would use a 2nd screen/window for

 

for some time I work on my own implementation of the board game Monopoly

quite early I figured I need at least two game windows: one for the main board itself and a second for the player with thier stats and controls

reason: I'm very bad with gui and hence only able to get done a very basic display - I'm far from such things as interactive overlays and I also dislike to switch the screen entirely between the main board view and the player data - I wanted to keep the board visible at all times while I also have the player infirmation and controls (rolling dice, buy houses, trade) accessible. I couldn't fit all together within a single main window so I just split it up

 

the idea about an additional app for your phone or tablets - I'm aware of that concept and IIRC I used one in the past myself - but can't remember the games name

 

anyway - using more than one screen is a concept I'd like to see more often used by modern games to make the main window/screen less overloaded and use available screen space

A tip: Remember to quote people when you answer, otherwise we don't get notifications

 

Regarding how easy it may be: It's still time and ressources. This has to be allocated from other parts of the project. So if it's not central to the experience, or part of the lead dev's vision, it may get the knife. 

Thats just how it is in professional industries. Priorities priorities priorities. (I fell into a rabbit hole a watched a lot of Tim Cain videos ). 

[BethQuentin]

There are two good ways I can think of to do this, but it has to be understood that the entirety of the interface necessary to play the game to it's full extent must be available on a single screen, for reasons that have been discussed above.

 

One way is companion apps. Those are even better if they are run from a local web server, then they can be opened in any web browser, anywhere the user wants, at least on their local network.

 

Another way is to make all of the interface components their own windows, which can be repositioned to anywhere you can reposition any window.

 

Some games do frequently have these features. Flight Simulators for example usually allow some form of interface repositioning, and some addons additionally spin up local webservers so you can access some of the more advanced avionics from a different interface.

[Muuh]

@DeerDK

I didn't quote on purpose as I honestly not really expected nor requested any further direct reply - more like: "here're my additional thoughts - feel free to reply or move along"

also: full-post-requotes just spam the read flow

 

@BethQuentin

although I do agree with offering the option for extending the experience I don't see any requirement any game (or application for that matter) should restrict itself to a single screen only

in the past often I was bothered with fixed UI elements that could not be moved and not scaled properly

as one example let me name the games Flyff and Blade and Soul: both games have fixed menus which combine charachter info, stats and inventory which can't be closed (so it's always visible and takes some space), they don't scale with change of resolution (when lower the resolution the menu becomes unuseable as parts of it "vanish" into the abbyss of the bottom window edge / when increase the resolution the menu becomes to small) and they can't be moved. In such cases I personal would prefer your option of having this "charachter-menu" within it's own external window not within the main game window I can place anywhere - like on a second screen - or with the approach of using a small webserver: on my phone or tablet

why do these devs clutter my experience with sich a bad UI and don't offer me alternatives? at least give me an option to close it like in WoW

 

yes - these are specific examples - but they show both sides: how devs can do bad interfaces and what alternatives are possible

and I don't think it's a question of money - both games exist since decades - I played them back as a teen - I'm 33 now

[BethQuentin]

4 hours ago, Muuh said:

although I do agree with offering the option for extending the experience I don't see any requirement any game (or application for that matter) should restrict itself to a single screen only

Games have to be fully playable on a single screen, or at least one screen plus a phone, because many players only have one screen (or one screen plus a phone). It's an economic thing, not a technical or moral thing.

 

Game developers want to sell their game to as many people as possible, like any other business.

[Stahlmann]

Battlefield 4 allowed the player to have a real-time fullscreen map on it's webinterface. That was pretty cool, but so far the only example of a game trying to take advantage of a 2nd monitor.

 

Also, people mostly have a 2nd monitor specifically to have things on there that are not related to the game they're playing, like YouTube, Netflix, Discord, Spotify, etc.