Razer Huntsman v3 alternative?

[Mark Kaine]

im just wondering, something like rapid trigger and snaptap should be easy to implement for most keyboards, no?

 

And  the two i know of are really expensive... could my Keychron C1 be updated perhaps?  probably not, eh...

 

 

[saintlouisbagels]

It wouldn't work with most keyboards because mechanical switches are only On/Off with no in-between state (binary). The pre-actuation point is entirely off, and post-actuation is entirely on.

 

Hall Effect switches use magnetism, so the entirely length of travel has different values that can be used for the rapid trigger stuff.

Optical switches can also have a similar level of granularity since the sensor can just measure the light intensity.

 

Topre Realforce keyboards also have adjustable actuation, but I don't understand how theirs works. They use electrocapacitive switches that are essentially rubbers with springs. So not really a mechanical keyboard switch and not really a rubberdome keyboard.

[GarlicDeliverySystem]

2 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

im just wondering, something like rapid trigger and snaptap should be easy to implement for most keyboards, no?

null bind can be done via firmware:

 

However, rapid trigger can't be since mechanical switches don't work like hall effect or other analog switches. Simply put, regular mechanical switches are either on or off, while analog switches give a signal for the switch position like 0%-100%. The on/off state is then defined in software as either:

• a certain position of the key (e.g. 50%)
• or a change in travel direction

The latter is rapid trigger, and since mechanical switches don't provide information on travel direction past their actuation point, it can't be done in software on them.

[Mark Kaine]

18 minutes ago, GarlicDeliverySystem said:

null bind can be done via firmware:

 

oh i see, cool... but I don't think i could compile this myself, or even adjust to my keyboard (dunno?)

one could hope keyboard manufacturers offer this update to make their keyboards fully functional and competitive. 

 

and let's be real this isn't "cheating" this is how keyboards should work since... forever.

but i see, time will tell i guess.

 

21 minutes ago, GarlicDeliverySystem said:

However, rapid trigger can't be since mechanical switches don't work like hall effect or other analog switches

gotcha, that's why a lot of these keyboards are optical/ analog, makes sense.

 

39 minutes ago, saintlouisbagels said:

It wouldn't work with most keyboards because mechanical switches are only On/Off with no in-between state (binary). The pre-actuation point is entirely off, and post-actuation is entirely on.

 

well, but snaptap/nullbind does...? this is literally the reason why i can't use keyboards to play games because they're completely counter intuitive ... you never know which key you're actually pressing if you press more than one lol...

 

really hope manufacturers will offer this as an update (where possible)

[Mark Kaine]

@GarlicDeliverySystem would the Keychron C1 even support QMK? Can't really find that info.

[GarlicDeliverySystem]

23 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

@GarlicDeliverySystem would the Keychron C1 even support QMK? Can't really find that info.

If you can't find it, then no. VIA/QMK is usually a feature well advertised on keyboards.

[GarlicDeliverySystem]

32 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

well, but snaptap/nullbind does...? this is literally the reason why i can't use keyboards to play games because they're completely counter intuitive ... you never know which key you're actually pressing if you press more than one lol...

That is a problem of cheap keyboards and those older than 20 years. The answer for modern keyboards is: every key you press.

Older and cheap keyboards have a design of the switch matrix (aka the wires running between switches and the controller) that only really foresees two-keys being pressed simultaneously. More than that and you get wonky behaviour.

 

However, this is not an inherent flaw of keyboards, just cheap design. Virtually all gamer keyboards and custom/higher-end pre-builds have NKRO or N-Key Roll-over, meaning you can press any combination of keys and it still registers every one of them.

 

And no, nullbind should not be universal mode of operation for keyboards, as that would mean you could never input even simple combinations like "crtl+c" or "ctrl+v", since the moment you press i.e. "v" after already pressing "ctrl", nullbind would 'unpress' "ctrl". This is only a feature for gaming where you specifically don't want a few keys to be active at the same time (i.e. the directions).

Imagine nullbind would also be active for i.e. "ctrl", "shift", "space" or even "r": you could never crouch, walk or jump in a direction, nor reload while moving.

 

It is a very specific solution for a "skill issue" (not being able to time the change from A to D key), that makes almost no sense in any other context when you start thinking about it.

[Mark Kaine]

1 hour ago, GarlicDeliverySystem said:

And no, nullbind should not be universal mode of operation for keyboards, as that would mean you could never input even simple combinations like "crtl+c" or "ctrl+v", since the moment you press i.e. "v" after already pressing "ctrl", nullbind would 'unpress' "ctrl". This is only a feature for gaming where you specifically don't want a few keys to be active at the same time (i.e. the directions).

Imagine nullbind would also be active for i.e. "ctrl", "shift", "space" or even "r": you could never crouch, walk or jump in a direction, nor reload while moving.

yeah i thought about that though, that's why it should be a standard keyboard feature that you can turn off with a switch and of course assign the function to certain keys  - its really only to simulate a d-pad (kinda) 

 

 

1 hour ago, GarlicDeliverySystem said:

If you can't find it, then no. VIA/QMK is usually a feature well advertised on keyboards.

yeah i suppose that's what the "pro" version of the C1 is, but i saw some contradictory info (so far)

[Doobeedoo]

No. But good KBs are getting improvement in input department. This will soon enough become the new standard and offering from others. The Wooting one is great. Personally I want to see TKL and a bit lower total travel switch.

[Mark Kaine]

5 hours ago, Doobeedoo said:

No. But good KBs are getting improvement in input department. This will soon enough become the new standard and offering from others. The Wooting one is great. Personally I want to see TKL and a bit lower total travel switch.

 

its definitely confusing (with keyboards in general) but i think theres a TKL huntsman, and also a mini? 

 

like basically its the same as the wooting as far i can tell, similar prices too. 

[saintlouisbagels]

1 hour ago, Mark Kaine said:

 

its definitely confusing (with keyboards in general) but i think theres a TKL huntsman, and also a mini? 

 

like basically its the same as the wooting as far i can tell, similar prices too. 

The Huntsman Mini uses Razer's Analog Optical switches.

The Huntsman TKL is just their Optical switches. No analog.

[Doobeedoo]

1 hour ago, Mark Kaine said:

 

its definitely confusing (with keyboards in general) but i think theres a TKL huntsman, and also a mini? 

 

like basically its the same as the wooting as far i can tell, similar prices too. 

Nah, I mean depends what you want but these types are still new anyway. Ye two formats each has.

I'd rather get Wooting though, better build, software, 8K polling too.

[Mark Kaine]

5 hours ago, Doobeedoo said:

I'd rather get Wooting though, better build, software, 8K polling too.

yeah im sure its better... problem is its also unobtainable lol... 60he (which i don't want, not enough keys frankly) 200 bucks, ships in December!  (maybe,  probably? )

 

80he, which i want, no price, no release date... 

 

 

And the huntsman v3 pro, which as far as the key selection goes looks ok (i want ALL the keys!) cost whopping 300 bucks and has several question marks...

 

can the "hand rest" be removed? 

 

is it possible to adjust the rgb colors *without* software?

 

do the rapid trigger and snap tap work without software? 

 

they say you can adjust it with buttons on the keyboard  - but do you need software installed on your pc, yes or no? 

 

It is for all intends and purposes a very confusing situation with keyboards,  descriptions always severely lacking lol.

 

Also 300 bucks for a keyboard UwU

 

 

ps: don't get me wrong i love my C1, but it has several drawbacks: no snap tap / rapid trigger, no num pad -.-  

 

(which honestly sucks, on my old DELL keyboard the numpad was my by far most used keys) 

 

 

^that's not even mentioning the non existant color selections,  i want black and white only, but looks only black is available 

[Doobeedoo]

10 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

yeah im sure its better... problem is its also unobtainable lol... 60he (which i don't want, not enough keys frankly) 200 bucks, ships in December!  (maybe,  probably? )

 

80he, which i want, no price, no release date... 

 

 

And the huntsman v3 pro, which as far as the key selection goes looks ok (i want ALL the keys!) cost whopping 300 bucks and has several question marks...

 

can the "hand rest" be removed? 

 

is it possible to adjust the rgb colors *without* software?

 

do the rapid trigger and snap tap work without software? 

 

they say you can adjust it with buttons on the keyboard  - but do you need software installed on your pc, yes or no? 

 

It is for all intends and purposes a very confusing situation with keyboards,  descriptions always severely lacking lol.

 

Also 300 bucks for a keyboard UwU

 

 

ps: don't get me wrong i love my C1, but it has several drawbacks: no snap tap / rapid trigger, no num pad -.-  

 

(which honestly sucks, on my old DELL keyboard the numpad was my by far most used keys) 

 

 

^that's not even mentioning the non existant color selections,  i want black and white only, but looks only black is available 

From what I can see 60he is in stock and 80he is to release this month. It's €220.

60% kb lacks buttons to me and TKL really is the go to for me.

 

From what I've seen ye Hand rest removable. Don't know about rgb maybe. I don't see why you couldn't without software. Button adjustment probably but maybe less customizable. You can just install software to configure and close it.

Most of this is standard on more known brand keyboards so.

[saintlouisbagels]

13 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

ps: don't get me wrong i love my C1, but it has several drawbacks: no snap tap / rapid trigger, no num pad -.-  

(which honestly sucks, on my old DELL keyboard the numpad was my by far most used keys) 

^that's not even mentioning the non existant color selections,  i want black and white only, but looks only black is available 

Aside from the black-and-white criteria, the Wooting Two HE meets all of the requirements, though? idk about your pricing but's it's only 195 USD and August 2024 backorder here in the US.

 

Other than that, the Keychron Q1 HE QMK is $219. You should probably find a super cheap numpad on Amazon or something.

 

13 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

it is for all intends and purposes a very confusing situation with keyboards,  descriptions always severely lacking lol.

It's because this whole Rapid Trigger meta is very new. Of course it's going to be messy. Just like folding smartphones and HDR formats.

[Mark Kaine]

48 minutes ago, saintlouisbagels said:

It's because this whole Rapid Trigger meta is very new. Of course it's going to be messy. Just like folding smartphones and HDR formats.

well yes that makes sense, but there's also a gazillion switches and rgb options also vary (and often aren't really described very obvious) i would really like wasd have a different led color for example. 

 

and yes the b&w criteria isn't very important although it would be nice, pretty much everything in my room is b&w as well.

 

48 minutes ago, saintlouisbagels said:

Wooting Two HE meets all of the requirements, though? idk about your pricing but's it's only 195 USD and August 2024 backorder here in the US.

ah, see i didn't even know that's a current model (no show on the wooting website for me)

 

aaaaaand that's the next "problem", im in EU but i *need* US QUERTY layout... been using it all my life and the EU layout is trash .

 

just saying that often complicates it further (possibly needs to be imported from US) 

 

But thanks,  i see, im gonna look into the Two he.

 

the Keychron Q1 HE QMK has to be programmed i suppose or does it already come with rapid trigger/ nullbind (snaptap)? 

[Mark Kaine]

@saintlouisbagels well i can apparently order the Two he and just buy white keycaps additionally... then i can mix black and white how i want!

 

229 bucks... its a lot but im tempted

[saintlouisbagels]

1 hour ago, Mark Kaine said:

@saintlouisbagels well i can apparently order the Two he and just buy white keycaps additionally... then i can mix black and white how i want!

 

229 bucks... its a lot but im tempted

Well, $229 for one of the best keyboards on the market that ALSO checks all of your boxes sounds like a steal to me