secret lab [SecretLab's warranty]Do you find this problematic?

[Vertutame]

Name of Brand: SecretLab

 

 

Description of your issue: Warranty

 

 

Have you tried solving your issue through the brand's customer support channel? If so, what was the result?

 

Their warranties do not cover anything aside from defective product from delivery

 

What would an ideal resolution of your issue look like?

 

You tell me

 

Is this how Warranty work? The warranty doesn't cover anything that's cause by wear and tearing from being used

Also the arm rest has a problem in 1 month after I got it. It's clearly faulty design but it's not defective.

It's working as intended? It meant to be broken in a month so we have to pay monthly?

 

IS THIS SUBSCRIPTION CHAIR????

[Skipple]

Huh? They said they gave you a new armrest despite the fact that it wasn't covered under traditional warranty, due to it being "normal wear and tear". 

 

What's the timeframe we are talking about here?  I'm a bit confused as to the issue. Did they replace the worn part?

[Blue4130]

24 minutes ago, Vertutame said:

 The warranty doesn't cover anything that's cause by wear and tearing from being used

 

If you look, you will find this is the case with nearly EVERY product warranty. Wear and tear is almost never covered.

[Moonzy]

I also asked them for replacement arm rests and got somewhat similar reply.

 

While it's great that they provide the replacement part even though it's not covered under warranty, it's kinda bad that it's having issues a couple months into using it (about a year for my case)

 

That said, I'm still using the semi-broken armrest cushion while the replacement is still in the box. It's probably been 2 years now or something.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

1 hour ago, Vertutame said:

Name of Brand: SecretLab

 

 

Description of your issue: Warranty

 

 

Have you tried solving your issue through the brand's customer support channel? If so, what was the result?

 

Their warranties do not cover anything aside from defective product from delivery

 

What would an ideal resolution of your issue look like?

 

You tell me

 

Is this how Warranty work? The warranty doesn't cover anything that's cause by wear and tearing from being used

Also the arm rest has a problem in 1 month after I got it. It's clearly faulty design but it's not defective.

It's working as intended? It meant to be broken in a month so we have to pay monthly?

 

IS THIS SUBSCRIPTION CHAIR????

Why would normal wear and tear be covered under warranty? In what way was the original armrest broken? 

[DoctorNick]

14 minutes ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

Why would normal wear and tear be covered under warranty? In what way was the original armrest broken? 

Why not?

I have a great experience with another company. Nitro Concepts. Had a chair from then almost for 6 years. Also after about 2.5 years in the gas cylinder died. Contacted the company and got a new wheelbase and gas cylinder, free of charge, within a couple of days. The adjustable cushions was eventually worn up and I considered trying my luck once again. Instead I got a more ergonomic chair.

[Vertutame]

2 hours ago, Skipple said:

Huh? They said they gave you a new armrest despite the fact that it wasn't covered under traditional warranty, due to it being "normal wear and tear". 

 

What's the timeframe we are talking about here?  I'm a bit confused as to the issue. Did they replace the worn part?

yeah, but the problem is still "the arm rest is damaged easily from just normal use"

I got it replaced twice and it broke around 1 month everytime.

I don't think this is common.

But yeah I think I will get a cloth tape and just tape it all over the arm rest next time.

I'm not paying them monthly for this.

also it took them 6 months to get me a part.

[DeerDK]

3 hours ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

Why would normal wear and tear be covered under warranty? In what way was the original armrest broken? 

If you are able to wear down a chair within the warranty, I would claim there was something wrong with the materials. 

Then again, I live in a country with 2 years right of complaint required by law. Exceptions can be made if the specific product is not meant to last two years, or that it by "natural use" is worn down within 2 years. In the case of an expensive chair, I would still make a claim as it would be reasonable to expect to last longer. 

[Vertutame]

4 hours ago, DeerDK said:

If you are able to wear down a chair within the warranty, I would claim there was something wrong with the materials. 

Then again, I live in a country with 2 years right of complaint required by law. Exceptions can be made if the specific product is not meant to last two years, or that it by "natural use" is worn down within 2 years. In the case of an expensive chair, I would still make a claim as it would be reasonable to expect to last longer. 

Exactly, It didn't last long as it claimed so how come they don't cover it? from normal use.

It's well known issue that the arm rests are problematic and it's easily damaged from normal use.

And my arms are pretty skinny.

[DeerDK]

35 minutes ago, Vertutame said:

Exactly, It didn't last long as it claimed so how come they don't cover it? from normal use.

It's well known issue that the arm rests are problematic and it's easily damaged from normal use.

And my arms are pretty skinny.

They should, IMO 

[QwertyChouskie]

In general, wear and tear is not covered by warranties.  If I drop my phone and the screen breaks, I don't get a free screen replacement, I gotta pay for it.  However, if there is a defect that causes premature wear and tear, like when Google Pixel back grass was spontaneously shattering, then that should be covered under warranty.  In this case, it looks like SL did the right thing and provided a free replacement due to the known defects of the arm rests (I'm a little surprised given some of the other threads on this forum, but credit where credit is due).

[wanderingfool2]

1 hour ago, QwertyChouskie said:

In general, wear and tear is not covered by warranties.  If I drop my phone and the screen breaks, I don't get a free screen replacement, I gotta pay for it.  However, if there is a defect that causes premature wear and tear, like when Google Pixel back grass was spontaneously shattering, then that should be covered under warranty.  In this case, it looks like SL did the right thing and provided a free replacement due to the known defects of the arm rests (I'm a little surprised given some of the other threads on this forum, but credit where credit is due).

I have an example of why "wear and tear" is not covered by many warranties.  It generally boils down to what people consider to be "wear and tear" and the assumption of life span of the product.

 

So my example is this:  I was managing 50+ computers, across 3 locations.

Location A: Lots of harddrive failures [heavier vehicles would drive by]

Location B: Fans/plastic stuff was brittle [caustic chemicals in the air, as it was a workshop]

Location C: Constantly overheating [needing monthly cleaning as there was a lot of dust in the air that clogged the heatsinks]

 

All three locations had computers fail due to different reasons [and on the hard drive side those were replaced under warranty, but the fans weren't].  Location C was out of warranty by the time they started to break but those computers only lasted like half the time of the others.

 

It's why wear and tear I think is something where you need to look at how products were used [and if it was within reason].

 

Specifically as well, our office chairs were all purchased at the same time.  About 1 in 10 people's chairs had armrests that were all torn up and broken...but it wasn't because of quality but rather the people who sat in their chairs had the armrests set at the height of their desk...so every time they pulled in an out the armrest would hit the corner and then get wedged under the desk.  So that's why I think sometimes "wear and tear" can be a hot topic kind of issue...because there are people who simply abuse some of their things.  Not saying that OP did or didn't, but just speaking from what I've observed around a workplace before there are people who treat things in a way that goes beyond wear and tear.

 

Slightly related to your example as well, managing 15 work phones.  2 users essentially created 90% of all the work fixing the phones [scratched screens, battery issues etc]...and each time they would complain that my decision to buy "cheap" phones foolhardy [at the time it was a Nexus 6, and then the Samsung S9 that they complained about being terrible quality].

 

7 hours ago, DeerDK said:

If you are able to wear down a chair within the warranty, I would claim there was something wrong with the materials. 

It gets into the whole issue of what is normal use and what should be reasonable, imo.  Lets say a cotton material, that would last a lot longer with someone doesn't sweat very much vs someone who sweats a lot.  My example of the place I worked at above I think is a good example of it.  It's not the materials fault, but the users overall "normal use".  My workchair was in pristine condition by the time I left, where others were all floppy and exposing the internal arm wrest assembly.

[DeerDK]

25 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

I have an example of why "wear and tear" is not covered by many warranties.  It generally boils down to what people consider to be "wear and tear" and the assumption of life span of the product.

 

So my example is this:  I was managing 50+ computers, across 3 locations.

Location A: Lots of harddrive failures [heavier vehicles would drive by]

Location B: Fans/plastic stuff was brittle [caustic chemicals in the air, as it was a workshop]

Location C: Constantly overheating [needing monthly cleaning as there was a lot of dust in the air that clogged the heatsinks]

 

All three locations had computers fail due to different reasons [and on the hard drive side those were replaced under warranty, but the fans weren't].  Location C was out of warranty by the time they started to break but those computers only lasted like half the time of the others.

 

It's why wear and tear I think is something where you need to look at how products were used [and if it was within reason].

 

Specifically as well, our office chairs were all purchased at the same time.  About 1 in 10 people's chairs had armrests that were all torn up and broken...but it wasn't because of quality but rather the people who sat in their chairs had the armrests set at the height of their desk...so every time they pulled in an out the armrest would hit the corner and then get wedged under the desk.  So that's why I think sometimes "wear and tear" can be a hot topic kind of issue...because there are people who simply abuse some of their things.  Not saying that OP did or didn't, but just speaking from what I've observed around a workplace before there are people who treat things in a way that goes beyond wear and tear.

 

Slightly related to your example as well, managing 15 work phones.  2 users essentially created 90% of all the work fixing the phones [scratched screens, battery issues etc]...and each time they would complain that my decision to buy "cheap" phones foolhardy [at the time it was a Nexus 6, and then the Samsung S9 that they complained about being terrible quality].

 

It gets into the whole issue of what is normal use and what should be reasonable, imo.  Lets say a cotton material, that would last a lot longer with someone doesn't sweat very much vs someone who sweats a lot.  My example of the place I worked at above I think is a good example of it.  It's not the materials fault, but the users overall "normal use".  My workchair was in pristine condition by the time I left, where others were all floppy and exposing the internal arm wrest assembly.

Its not a cheap chair. If it was an ikea chair for 20 bucks I wouldn't blink if it broke down quickly, but these are supposed to be a bit more premiere product, or am I totally misreading what kind of quality chairs we are talking? 

[DeerDK]

2 hours ago, QwertyChouskie said:

In general, wear and tear is not covered by warranties.  If I drop my phone and the screen breaks, I don't get a free screen replacement, I gotta pay for it.  However, if there is a defect that causes premature wear and tear, like when Google Pixel back grass was spontaneously shattering, then that should be covered under warranty.  In this case, it looks like SL did the right thing and provided a free replacement due to the known defects of the arm rests (I'm a little surprised given some of the other threads on this forum, but credit where credit is due).

What you are describing is not wear and tear. 

Accidents are another ballpark, but refusing to replace a scratched screen from normal use in a year, maybe putting it in the pocket with your keys a few times. You know, wear and tear. 

Like when your pants wear thin from regular use, not from you sliding 10 meters across the pavement in a bicycle accident. 

 

If your jeans look like you have been in an accident after relatively short time, it would probably be a faulty product, at least if it was an expensive pair of jeans. If they cost 5 bucks, you would probably be told "well, what did you expect for that price". 

I agree that normal wear and tear are to be tolerated as a user. Can't expect a product to look prestine after long time's regular use. 

[wanderingfool2]

34 minutes ago, DeerDK said:

Its not a cheap chair. If it was an ikea chair for 20 bucks I wouldn't blink if it broke down quickly, but these are supposed to be a bit more premiere product, or am I totally misreading what kind of quality chairs we are talking? 

Neither were the office chairs I used in my example, they were like $400 chairs [and they were pretty basic...but the higher $ was because they were "built" with better materials].

 

Not saying that SL might not have a problem with it, or that there might have been a defect...just that in SL's position, I 100% understand why there would be no warranty on "wear and tear" because the usages of it can drastically impact the lifespan of materials.  It becomes, what is considered "wear and tear", and they likely don't want to precisely define it because there will be people who abuse it in ways that others might think is outside of scope [Like in my example where people kept slamming the rests into it]

 

Also something not being "cheap" doesn't mean it's designed for longevity everywhere.  e.g. EV's are often labelled as "luxury" level  prices and often get compared to ICE counterparts at similar price points [despite EV's using materials that cost a lot more].

 

 

e.g. I buy a Disney shirt for $20 or a no name brand for $15....but the no name brand lasts longer than the Disney one...as in that case you are paying for the licensing essentially.

 

Or buying dress shirts...the ones that hold up are the cheap thicker less comfortable ones, but the more expensive ones you are paying for the style, feel and materials it's made from.

 

Or winter tires...you can pay an arm and a leg for some, and they wear down quicker [but perform a whole lot better].

 

Again, not necessarily speaking to what the SL chairs are like, but using price as a justification that it should always hold up isn't necessarily fair [as there are plenty of examples I can think of where the price is dictated by other things]

 

[DeerDK]

29 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Neither were the office chairs I used in my example, they were like $400 chairs [and they were pretty basic...but the higher $ was because they were "built" with better materials].

 

Not saying that SL might not have a problem with it, or that there might have been a defect...just that in SL's position, I 100% understand why there would be no warranty on "wear and tear" because the usages of it can drastically impact the lifespan of materials.  It becomes, what is considered "wear and tear", and they likely don't want to precisely define it because there will be people who abuse it in ways that others might think is outside of scope [Like in my example where people kept slamming the rests into it]

 

Also something not being "cheap" doesn't mean it's designed for longevity everywhere.  e.g. EV's are often labelled as "luxury" level  prices and often get compared to ICE counterparts at similar price points [despite EV's using materials that cost a lot more].

 

 

e.g. I buy a Disney shirt for $20 or a no name brand for $15....but the no name brand lasts longer than the Disney one...as in that case you are paying for the licensing essentially.

 

Or buying dress shirts...the ones that hold up are the cheap thicker less comfortable ones, but the more expensive ones you are paying for the style, feel and materials it's made from.

 

Or winter tires...you can pay an arm and a leg for some, and they wear down quicker [but perform a whole lot better].

 

Again, not necessarily speaking to what the SL chairs are like, but using price as a justification that it should always hold up isn't necessarily fair [as there are plenty of examples I can think of where the price is dictated by other things]

 

Fair points. 

My personal chair is a HÅG. They are a bit more expensive than SL but damn, they are solid. If I had bought a new of those and either fabric, hinges or wheels ect gave up on me within 2 years you can bet I would pursue a replacement item. 

Heck, I've once had a labtop that crapped out on me within the right of complaint period. The retailer fixed it and even told me that it reset the right of complaint period. Which was lucky, because it broke down again another 1.5 year later

[SansVarnic]

15 hours ago, Vertutame said:

yeah, but the problem is still "the arm rest is damaged easily from just normal use"

I got it replaced twice and it broke around 1 month everytime.

I don't think this is common.

But yeah I think I will get a cloth tape and just tape it all over the arm rest next time.

I'm not paying them monthly for this.

also it took them 6 months to get me a part.

Probably should have included this up front.

I would suggest you edit your original post to include all details of your complaint so it will be easier for LMG to review your concern. At the moment it is a difficult read to get what your issues and expected result is.

18 hours ago, Vertutame said:

You tell me

this is a bit sarcastic, LMG does not read minds, it would be helpful to utilize the section to articulate your issue and inform as much as possible upfront so it is understood best.

[Bitter]

I think 'normal wear and tear' should be warrantee-able if it's happening in a short period of time, if it's happening repeatedly, and if it's a wide spread issue. For the last point SL seems to be tamping down on complaints on reddit and other social media from what I've seen in regard to people complaining.

 

I'll use automotive as an example. Subaru were notorious for failing rear wheel bearings, not because the owners abused the vehicles but because the original design was problematic. If they failed under warranty most owners were told to shove off by Subaru stating 'misuse' of the vehicle. It was in fact not misuse, it was low quality parts along with poor castings which corroded more quickly than expected  which warped the bearing cases causing the failure. Clean up the casting the bearings installed into and apply something to abate corrosion and they were fine for a normal span of time. Eventually Subaru came around, issued a bulletin and owners were able to maybe get reimbursed or at least get it fixed under warranty. 

If there's a pattern of poor design or poor materials causing premature failure then SL needs to step up and cover the failures under warranty and resolve the root cause.

[Haredeenee]

Another week, another secretlab thread.

A $600+ chair shouldn't 'wear out' within a month. 


They also don't warranty the upholstery, y'know, what the chair is made of lmao 

Their armrests are defective from the factory. FULL STOP.

If you've seen my thread you'd see I proved this to their customer service showing how 'wear and tear' pictures look EXACTLY like pics taken straight from the box with the same damage. They crack and have terrible QC. Instead of admitting this, (or providing even a semblance of customer service) SL threw my money back in my face because they know if they admit that its a defect they will have to warranty everyone else's defective armrests. 

https://old.reddit.com/r/secretlab/comments/1ej81c5/customer_support_is_awful/

If you can, do a FULL CHARGEBACK, as that's what customers on the subreddit suggest. 

 

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

 

3 hours ago, Haredeenee said:

If you can, do a FULL CHARGEBACK, as that's what customers on the subreddit suggest. 

I would strongly advise against this. That is a surefire way to land yourself into some deep shit with your credit card company (and potential legal ramifications) as that can easily be seen as a fraudulent chargeback. 

[Skipple]

3 hours ago, Haredeenee said:

If you can, do a FULL CHARGEBACK

I would strongly advise against regurgitating this nonsense if you don't know what you're talking about. There are absolutely legal ramifications to doing chargebacks without valid rationale for doing so. Being unhappy with the product or it's warranty is not a valid reason for performing a chargeback.

[imnotdavid]

Telling OP that the product falling apart within a couple months is normal wear and tear, and that replacing it without charge is a courtesy OP should bow down and be grateful for, is gaslighting.

 

Gaslighting has been and continues to be Secretlab's MO mentioned in literally every single complaint about them in this forum, which LMG continues to ignore.  Which at this point constitutes LMG gaslighting as well.

 

Pretty disgusting.

 

I can personally say I'm no longer buying from any LMG sponsor, nor buying any LMG product, until they (for the second time now) ditch this sponsor.

[Vertutame]

The problem is that the arm rest is having wear and tear not from something is scratching it, it's cause by you putting the arm on top but because the leather is putting in too tight it expand sideways which sometimes cause the tearing from just a normal use, you can put a cup on it and it will damage this thing

I think this is a design flaw from the get go.

 

Basically they literally make a faulty product that come with the chair and you have to pay monthly to replace it

 

wear and tear cause by normal ordinary use should be covered in warranty

How come you're selling a product that broke in 1 month and promise 5 years warranty?

 

Yes I replaced it twice and it always lasted 1-2 months.

 

I'm not even an obese person I order M size chair and I couldn't even fit half of it[probably american size]as I'm just average asian size

 

I need to clarify this 

These wear and tear is cause by normal use and there's no abuse in anyway

I just rest my arm on it and it broke on it's own in 1-2 month period

 

If you use a phone as an example, imagine if you buy Samsung Phone and you didn't drop it, you just use it normally, never put it's face down and 1 month passed the screen broke and they replaced the 1st screen under warranty, then another 1 month passed and it broke again on it's own

This time though they asked you to pay half the amount of money of that phone to repair the screen

 

And you think this is normal?

This is like they created faulty product so customer has to pay them monthly or you can just use the broken arm rest for the rest of this chair's life span.

I got this last week and now it's starting to have some weird tearing again.

 

Also it took them 6 months to ship me the arm rest for replacement.

[Haredeenee]

9 hours ago, Vertutame said:

The problem is that the arm rest is having wear and tear not from something is scratching it, it's cause by you putting the arm on top but because the leather is putting in too tight it expand sideways which sometimes cause the tearing from just a normal use, you can put a cup on it and it will damage this thing

I think this is a design flaw from the get go.

 

Basically they literally make a faulty product that come with the chair and you have to pay monthly to replace it

 

wear and tear cause by normal ordinary use should be covered in warranty

How come you're selling a product that broke in 1 month and promise 5 years warranty?

 

Yes I replaced it twice and it always lasted 1-2 months.

 

I'm not even an obese person I order M size chair and I couldn't even fit half of it[probably american size]as I'm just average asian size

 

I need to clarify this 

These wear and tear is cause by normal use and there's no abuse in anyway

I just rest my arm on it and it broke on it's own in 1-2 month period

 

If you use a phone as an example, imagine if you buy Samsung Phone and you didn't drop it, you just use it normally, never put it's face down and 1 month passed the screen broke and they replaced the 1st screen under warranty, then another 1 month passed and it broke again on it's own

This time though they asked you to pay half the amount of money of that phone to repair the screen

 

And you think this is normal?

This is like they created faulty product so customer has to pay them monthly or you can just use the broken arm rest for the rest of this chair's life span.

I got this last week and now it's starting to have some weird tearing again.

 

Also it took them 6 months to ship me the arm rest for replacement.

Yup, the arm rests are defective. They refuse to acknowledge it. Its a huuuuge problem that secretlab is aware of, but blames the customer for their defective products.