Ryzen 7950X3D - 499 Amazon/Newegg

[tkitch]

https://slickdeals.net/f/17547567-amd-ryzen-9-7950x3d-16-core-4-2-ghz-amd-radeon-graphics-desktop-processor-499-free-shipping

 

Great price on the 7950X3D.  Looks like deals are starting to hit before the 9000 launches soon (tm)

[Agall]

13 minutes ago, tkitch said:

https://slickdeals.net/f/17547567-amd-ryzen-9-7950x3d-16-core-4-2-ghz-amd-radeon-graphics-desktop-processor-499-free-shipping

 

Great price on the 7950X3D.  Looks like deals are starting to hit before the 9000 launches soon (tm)

Rumor has it, 9000x3D in Q3, around September. I don't think 9000 series will be that great in terms of performance jumps, but they're marketing a jump in efficiency, which translates massively to 3D v-cache CPUs.

[Millios]

2 hours ago, Agall said:

Rumor has it, 9000x3D in Q3, around September. I don't think 9000 series will be that great in terms of performance jumps, but they're marketing a jump in efficiency, which translates massively to 3D v-cache CPUs.

Didnt they say theyll launch at the same or around the same prices as the 7000 series? If im mistaken pls correct me but if im correct then a jump of even the 16% they said at the same or close to the same price id say is well worth it especially since they will be more efficient as well

[tkitch]

Just now, Millios said:

Didnt they say theyll launch at the same or around the same prices as the 7000 series? If im mistaken pls correct me but if im correct then a jump of even the 16% they said at the same or close to the same price id say is well worth it especially since they will be more efficient as well

no, the 9000x3d haven't been officially announced in any way.

 

The only thing we know about is the 9000x series so far. 

[Millios]

1 minute ago, tkitch said:

no, the 9000x3d haven't been officially announced in any way.

 

The only thing we know about is the 9000x series so far. 

Werent we talking abouth the 9000 series in general? he said and i quote

 

2 hours ago, Agall said:

I don't think 9000 series will be that great in terms of performance jumps, but they're marketing a jump in efficiency

Which is why i brought it (what i heard about prices for the 9000 series) up. Yes the 7000 had initially bad/high prices but fairly soon dropped and are now id say amazingly priced.

[Agall]

10 minutes ago, Millios said:

Didnt they say theyll launch at the same or around the same prices as the 7000 series? If im mistaken pls correct me but if im correct then a jump of even the 16% they said at the same or close to the same price id say is well worth it especially since they will be more efficient as well

I don't think price/performance wise, a 9800x3D will beat the 7800x3D when the 7800x3D is like $300 USD. The 7800x3D has a hard time beating price/performance wise the 5700x3D, which has been $200 USD.

 

It'll be better for sure, probably about on par with the jump between the 5800x3D and 7800x3D. The IPC/architectural gains were greater, but if there's an efficiency improvement, that'll translate heavily to a 9800x3D since the 7800x3D is largely TDP limited.

 

I'd take any %efficiency gains advertised with Ryzen 9000 and square root it to get the performance gain of a 9800x3D, on top of the IPC gains. Another way would be to multiply it by 0.7, given the ~20C increased CCD temp of 3D v-cache CCDs (not completely arbitrary, but speculative). 

 

Personally, I think Ryzen 9000 is more like 13th gen versus 14th gen, so I'm not so confident it'll be worth the wait or higher cost. They wouldn't be releasing the 9000x3D later this year if it was the goat.

[Millios]

Just now, Agall said:

Personally, I think Ryzen 9000 is more like 13th gen versus 14th gen, so I'm not so confident it'll be worth the wait or higher cost. They wouldn't be releasing the 9000x3D later this year if it was the goat.

I hear that but i dont think its necceserally bad. Yes it wont be a generational leap but i feel the efficiency and performance improvements along with the rumored prices would make it at least worth considering if you have a) the budget b) the need c)the want. Even if you cant say to yourself to buy it at least thatll let the 7000 series prices drop (or at least we hope they will cause theyll be older gen) making an ecosystem of "high" end am5 and a budget am5 of sorts unlike intel which was high end and higher end imo so you please both sides of the fanatics and the casuals

[Agall]

1 hour ago, Millios said:

I hear that but i dont think its necceserally bad. Yes it wont be a generational leap but i feel the efficiency and performance improvements along with the rumored prices would make it at least worth considering if you have a) the budget b) the need c)the want. Even if you cant say to yourself to buy it at least thatll let the 7000 series prices drop (or at least we hope they will cause theyll be older gen) making an ecosystem of "high" end am5 and a budget am5 of sorts unlike intel which was high end and higher end imo so you please both sides of the fanatics and the casuals

I'm more than willing to spend copious amounts of money for trivial gains in performance, but I'm just skeptical that Ryzen 9000 series or even RTX 5000 series will be worth it. I find myself far more interested in something like the MSI Claw 8 AI+ at this point and going back to thunderbolt eGPUs, even if it's a performance loss. Might finally get my dream setup I first tested with the Nvidia Shield Portable back in 2013 or my Razer Core I bought back in 2016.

 

It will be difficult to beat the Steam Deck OLED's screen though even if the performance is better, which is the only newer handheld I own, but have some experience with the ROG Ally from a friend.

[Millios]

4 minutes ago, Agall said:

I'm more than willing to spend copious amounts of money for trivial gains in performance, but I'm just skeptical that Ryzen 9000 series or even RTX 5000 series will be worth it. I find myself far more interested in something like the MSI Claw 8 AI+ at this point and going back to thunderbolt eGPUs, even if it's a performance loss. Might finally get my dream setup I first tested with the Nvidia Shield Portable back in 2013 or my Razer Core I bought back in 2016.

 

It will be difficult to beat the Steam Deck OLED's screen though even if the performance is better, which is the only newer handheld I own, but have some experience with the ROG Ally from a friend.

Isnt that also a factor? I mean your dream/interest about better handhelds. I also wasnt talking about you specifically but for the general audience and types of ppl who are in the market. I also dont find the 9000 series the GODSEND some might see it as either but im intrigued about it to say the least, nvidia lost me a while ago with the 4000 series so the 5000 series is a bust if it isnt reasonably priced for me and i dont really care about the handhelds which makes me less than interested to say the least (im excluding the nintendo switch 2 btw cause for that i have high hopes for better or worse). I think this should sum up my thoughts : " the 9000 series will shake things up enough to make a statement and solidify AMD even further as the joe smoes go to for cpus".

 

Sidenote: I really dont get the eGPU hype but thats just me. Yes having a more powerful gpu in a laptop would be nice but i just dont think getting an extra ,essentially, brick or cinderblock to carry around is worth it.

[Agall]

52 minutes ago, Millios said:

Isnt that also a factor? I mean your dream/interest about better handhelds. I also wasnt talking about you specifically but for the general audience and types of ppl who are in the market. I also dont find the 9000 series the GODSEND some might see it as either but im intrigued about it to say the least, nvidia lost me a while ago with the 4000 series so the 5000 series is a bust if it isnt reasonably priced for me and i dont really care about the handhelds which makes me less than interested to say the least (im excluding the nintendo switch 2 btw cause for that i have high hopes for better or worse). I think this should sum up my thoughts : " the 9000 series will shake things up enough to make a statement and solidify AMD even further as the joe smoes go to for cpus".

 

Sidenote: I really dont get the eGPU hype but thats just me. Yes having a more powerful gpu in a laptop would be nice but i just dont think getting an extra ,essentially, brick or cinderblock to carry around is worth it.

I see 9000 series doing what 14th gen did for LGA 1700, sure its faster, but not by much, but heavily discounting 12th and 13th generation CPUs. 9000 series will probably do the same, where we'll still be recommending the 5700x3D or 7800x3D over the 9800x3D except for those spending +$2k. 9000 non 3D is already DOA for most of us with how inexpensive the 7800x3D is now a days, the 9700x isn't going to beat the 7800x3D for gaming and probably be close to the same price.

[Millios]

4 minutes ago, Agall said:

I see 9000 series doing what 14th gen did for LGA 1700, sure its faster, but not by much, but heavily discounting 12th and 13th generation CPUs. 9000 series will probably do the same, where we'll still be recommending the 5700x3D or 7800x3D over the 9800x3D except for those spending +$2k. 9000 non 3D is already DOA for most of us with how inexpensive the 7800x3D is now a days, the 9700x isn't going to beat the 7800x3D for gaming and probably be close to the same price.

That is assuming for the example you gave that the 9700x will be at around the same price as the 7800x3d if its near the price as the 7700x i think its more of a clear cut that you can get the 9700x over the 7700x. So it comes down to pricing i believe we have that as a commong ground for a beliefs

[Agall]

18 minutes ago, Millios said:

That is assuming for the example you gave that the 9700x will be at around the same price as the 7800x3d if its near the price as the 7700x i think its more of a clear cut that you can get the 9700x over the 7700x. So it comes down to pricing i believe we have that as a commong ground for a beliefs

The gap between 5000 and 7000 was marketed as a lot larger than the marketed gap between 7000 and 9000. In another thread, I made a comparison between AMD's official release documentation between those two.

 

Quote

"Compared to the previous generation, AMD Ryzen 7950X processor enables single-core performance improvement of up to +29%2, up to 45% more compute for content creators in POV Ray3, up to 15% faster gaming performance in select titles4, and up to 27% better performance-per-watt5."

 

AMD Launches Ryzen 7000 Series Desktop Processors with “Zen 4” Architecture: the Fastest Core in Gaming¹ :: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. (AMD)

 

"Built on the latest “Zen 5” architecture, AMD Ryzen 9000 Series desktop processors deliver an impressive average16% better IPC performance compared to the prior generation of Ryzen processors’ “Zen 4” architecture4, with the top-of-the-line Ryzen 9 9950X delivering the fastest consumer desktop performance in the world5."

 

AMD Unveils Next-Gen “Zen 5” Ryzen Processors to Power Advanced AI Experiences

 

IPC and gaming performance aren't 1:1, given AMD's own admission. If we're getting 16% better IPC with Zen5 where Zen4 saw 29% (all first party AMD release info), then we might see only ~10% increase in gaming performance from Zen4 to Zen5.

Not a very convincing argument for Ryzen 9000 considering. Especially considering neither of this involves 3D v-cache. Obviously, 10% of 1 isn't as high as 10% of 1.1, but we are at least comparing nearby generational improvements.

 

 

Given that, the 7700x vs 9700x will likely end up a price point compromise. For gaming though, the 9700x will likely end up close enough in price to the 7800x3D that its simply not worth it for gaming. Given the generational performance gap reduction, the comparison between the 5800x3D and 7700x made when that chip came out won't be as close, where the 7800x3D vs 9700x gap will likely end up smaller. The major argument against the 5800x3D in that comparison was the obsolescent platform in AM4 vs the new AM5, something the 7800x3D doesn't have as a major disadvantage.

[Millios]

3 minutes ago, Agall said:

The gap between 5000 and 7000 was marketed as a lot larger than the marketed gap between 7000 and 9000. In another thread, I made a comparison between AMD's official release documentation between those two.

Here arent you also comparing different platforms? One is zen 3 the other is zen 4 and isnt the point of a new platform like zen 4 compared zen 3 to majorly one up it or at least show a much bigger difference in performance? much like intel 12-13th gen with intel 10-11th gen. (14th gen was to price cut the 13th gen mainly so lets leave that out)

 

6 minutes ago, Agall said:

Obviously, 10% of 1 isn't as high as 10% of 1.1, but we are at least comparing nearby generational improvements.

Given that, the 7700x vs 9700x will likely end up a price point compromise. For gaming though, the 9700x will likely end up close enough in price to the 7800x3D that its simply not worth it for gaming. Given the generational performance gap reduction, the comparison between the 5800x3D and 7700x made when that chip came out won't be as close, where the 7800x3D vs 9700x gap will likely end up smaller. The major argument against the 5800x3D in that comparison was the obsolescent platform in AM4 vs the new AM5, something the 7800x3D doesn't have as a major disadvantage.

IF the 9700x costs near the price of 7800x3D lets say the 9700x is 280 and the 7800x3D is 300 (hypothetical prices as we cant accurately say) yes the 7800x3D will just be a much MUCH better option that i will whole heartedly agree on if however they fall closer to the 7700x for example a 7700x at 220 a 9700x at 230-240 and and a 7800x3d at 300-350 that is a different story especially for ppl who stay under a tighter budget but want performance. So again its a matter of who we are talking about and whats the budget so again pricing and financial argument based on what we predict and expect the prices to be not what they are cause they arent out.

[Agall]

32 minutes ago, Millios said:

Here arent you also comparing different platforms? One is zen 3 the other is zen 4 and isnt the point of a new platform like zen 4 compared zen 3 to majorly one up it or at least show a much bigger difference in performance? much like intel 12-13th gen with intel 10-11th gen. (14th gen was to price cut the 13th gen mainly so lets leave that out)

 

IF the 9700x costs near the price of 7800x3D lets say the 9700x is 280 and the 7800x3D is 300 (hypothetical prices as we cant accurately say) yes the 7800x3D will just be a much MUCH better option that i will whole heartedly agree on if however they fall closer to the 7700x for example a 7700x at 220 a 9700x at 230-240 and and a 7800x3d at 300-350 that is a different story especially for ppl who stay under a tighter budget but want performance. So again its a matter of who we are talking about and whats the budget so again pricing and financial argument based on what we predict and expect the prices to be not what they are cause they arent out.

AMD really likes that $400 price point for their R7 chips, so its very unlikely that a 9700x would start below $300 MSRP.

 

AMD is their own competition in this space since 3D v-cache is so powerful for gaming PCs. 5700x3D at $200 being absurd, 7800x3D at $340 being solid, but likely to get better when the 9800x3D comes out. Given AMD is still competing with 5000x3D, its going to be even worse when they're competing with 7000x3D.

 

I'm cross comparing platforms because 5000x3D is still relevant in this discussion. The 7700x might get higher average framerates than a 5700x3D, but not in the minimum department in games where it matters the most, which I think is far more impactful to the gaming experience, especially considering those benchmarks are usually done with the most overkill GPU and not something mid tier and on more academically repeatable AAA titles.

 

A 5700x3D with an RTX 4070 would likely be a better experience than a 7700x with an RTX 4070 in most games, especially anything that negotiates with a server. Its possible that it'll be the same case between a 5700x3D with an RTX 4070 and even a 9700x with an RTX 4070.

 

3D v-cache really is that impactful, something I test regularly with my 7950x3D's CCDs and experienced when upgrading previously from a 3950x to 5800x3D. It matters far more in games people actually play than the suite of academic benchmarks that major organizations use, mostly because the multiplayer games people actually play are a lot harder to properly benchmark.