I tried several mechanical keyboards and was rather disappointed. Alternatives?

[LyR]

Hi,

first of all, I rarely post on messages boards. I'm more the invisible type i.e. reader. Since I know that enthusiasts (especially those on the geeky side of things) can get rather vocal & unreasonable if you tend to dislike things they see as the second coming of christ; I expect to get railed for this but at least give me a chance and hear me out. (warning: it's long-winded)

 

Long story short, I like Linus and his crew. His videos are usually helpful and I think of him highly since he seems to be a sensible &  knowledgable person in terms of hardware/peripheral. He was raving on how amazing mechanical keyboards are and I thought what the heck, let's give them a try. On paper, they sound wonderful. Better feedback & longlivity, and since hate things with built-in/planned obsolescence this was a huge plus for me. To be honest longevity was never a problem with ANY keyboard I ever had. I have membrane Logitech keyboards from the early 2000's which still work like a charm.

 

So I did extensive research, since I couldn't get hold of those fancy sample tester, (Link, Link2) and came to the conclusion that MX brown switches with O-rings would be the best fit for my needs (50/50 gaming & typing), alternatively red or black switches. Blues were out of the question because of their loudness, DoubleTapping problems & other counter-productive issues for gaming. (also this)

 

Part of the research was also reading lots of customer reviews at Amazon UK, USA, France & Germany and that's where the first alarm bells went off. Unproportional amount of 1-star reviews complaining about reliability issues with all 3 Keyboards I've tried. Usually it's just Razer products which get so much flak and I avoid them at all costs... also because of the juvenile ricer/game-y look. I'm not an energy drinking 12 year old anymore...

Wait a second, wasn't longevity a huge plus and one of the main reasons to buy a mechanical keyboard? Since they cost a fortune they better be! Oh well maybe those people were just unlucky I thought and I'd like to experience them myself rather than just relying and listening to other opinions. While I like fancy and expensive things as the next guy, I would describe myself as your average sensible/reasonable consumer. I value price-performance ratio above everything else e.g. back 2008 I had to choose between a GTX 260 & 280, I have chosen the 260 because 5-10 frames more in most cases were not worth the +100€ extra.

 

So I ordered the Logitech G710+, (cherry brown switches with o-rings)

 

Unfortunately, right out of the box, the keyboard was terrible. Felt way more mushier than my second gen G15 I was using from early 2008 (and still use as of today) which is considered to be a very good membrane keyboard IIRC. Surely this can't be right I thought.

So they told me on other forums that the rubber pads/o-rings that Logitech put in to make it quieter sound good in theory but it makes the keyboard feel like a cheap membrane keyboard. After pulling out all the keycaps and removing the rubber pads, the keyboard felt a little bit better. It still doesn't feel much better than my membrane keyboard and the tactile hump is so vague and difficult to feel that I tend to bottom out anyway. The whole experience was rather disappointing and definitely not worth the 130€ I paid for it. Not in the slightest. Two weeks later the ctrl key flew off which seems to be an universal problem since the official Logitech forum is full of people complaining this issue or worse they completely break off after a few days, months and sometimes a year and Logitech doesn't offer extra keycaps and wants to exchange the entire Keyboard. Thanks but no thanks, back to amazon with it.

 

Next was the Corsair Vengeance K70 silver one with blue backlit (cherry mx red switches)

Again, the difference was even more subtile compared to a decent rubberdome/membrane keyboard. The difference was almost non-existing. One day of usage and the first LED died and according to their forums I wasn't alone with this issue. After some more usage the E key got stuck. Definitely not worth 124€. Back to amazon.

 

The last one I've tried was the Roccat Ryos MK Pro with cherry mx black switches,

Probably the worst of the bunch, felt almost like Corsair with its red switches just mushier not really heavier as it's supposed to. (red vs black switches)

Driver issues which still aren't fixed. More often than not it double-registered inputs, e.g. I pressed e once and it ended up writing eeeeeeeeeeeeee, apparently a common issue with lots of gaming branded mechanical keyboards.

I also didn't like that they forced a wrist rest on me and since it was the most expensive one of the bunch at 170€... guess what....

 

I live in a country with great pro-consumer rights I can return products without a reason after 14 days (forced by the law) and at amazon even 1 month after purchase (goodwill) I had plenty of time to test them good & proper.

All this talk about the great longevity seems to be not the case with modern switches, comparisons to the IBM model M are also wrong since they used a buckling spring and were actually waterproof which modern switches aren't; hell they can even stop working by to much dirt/dust underneath the switches which will sooner or later be the case. Why isn't anyone talking about this? I clean my G15 by punching it on the back over a bathtub so that all the dirt falls out and on the front clean it with a water sprayer/towel combo. A modern mechanical switch would NEVER survive that. WHY IS NO ONE TALKING ABOUT THAT? There is a great article (unfortunately only in German) which explains in detail that mechanical switches, no matter which, are far from ideal for gaming. I only found out about all this after doing extensive research.

 

This whole "experience" left a very bitter taste in my mouth not only because of all the reliability issues, but the difference in all cases was so utter vague, subtile & minimalistic compared to a good membrane keyboard, definitely not worth the asking price to me. The only switch that felt really different was the blue one but it's a no go for the reasons I stated earlier. I was not expecting to be so dissapointed after all the buzz about them. I'm also baffled & bewildered about all the people saying it's a night & day difference; you will never go back to a rubberdome etc. which has to be the biggest hyperbole or perhaps I'm missing something. But I also don't believe it's just "mouthbreathing geeks defending & justifying their +130$ purchase" like some people say. Maybe it's just an issue with the gaming branded stuff which is more often than not borderline rip-off territory?!

 

Maybe my expectations were too high? I was expecting somewhat of a more satisfying feel like the Playstation Vita D-Pad which has an awesome, very soft (audible) mechanical click to it, I would love something like this.

One of the fastest typer I know swears by scissor switch/chiclet keyboards because of the short key travel. Are there any scissor switch/chiclet keyboards which have this soft click to it? The ones I've tried were awful and I had trouble typing because the keys were too close together.(netbook) I would also be somewhat interested in topre keyboards but they're so bloody expensive...

[Askew]

I use a relatively cheap mech, the QPAD MK-50 and I'm very happy with it (MX Reds)

 

With regard to driver issues, I wouldn't really know about that because I use PS/2 for my keyboard and don't have any such issues to speak of.

 

The boards I've heard people speak highly the most of are from brands such as Ducky and DasKeyboard

 

Great first post BTW, welcome to the forum.

[nishank93]

Mechanical keyboards are not for everyone. I know people who love them, I know people who hate them.

However, if you really want to try something, you should try it using the LinusMethod, i.e., use it for at least a couple of weeks as you would use it if it were your permanent keyboard.

 

Dare I say this, you don't have to be a mechanical keyboard user to be a tech enthusiast.

[Heisenbleurgh]

Hi, welcome to the forum!

I tried browns for my first keyboard and felt that they had a very nice tactile feedback. However, now that I'm using blues, browns feel so soft in terms of tactile feedback. The blue sadly, is quite louder than most people like. In my experience, people who bottom out (press the keys all the way down) on brows are actually louder than blues

In good theory, Cherry MX Clears are the switch for you, which are harder to press and without the click of a blue switch but are sadly quite hard to find.

 

There's also Topre keyboards, which are very high regarded, maybe one of those might interest you.

[Rorgash]

there are cheaper mec keyboards, but if you dont like them thats fine to but if you find it to be about the same as your membrane board well, that just means it feels the same its still better due to the other features you get

[Dylan lol]

lol why complain about the roccat keyboard wriest rest when u knew what u were buying? buy a mechanical keyboard from a real keyboard company like max keyboard or ducky, not that logitech and roccat crap with 20 macro keys. and yeah the o-rings do make the browns feel mushy. i wasnt a big fan of my mechanical keyboard when i first got it but i think i got used to it fast (had it since jan 21) and now i dont want to type on rubber domes. a good tenkeyless cherry mx brown keyboard is amazing. rubber domes do feel way mushy compared to browns

 

btw no problems happens with mine, no keys fall off like logitech, leds dont die and keys dont get stuck like corsair, and theres no button spam like roccat.

[tbc]

when people talk about MX longevity, they are talking about the SWITCH itself.  pcb, led, case shattering failures aren't different than regular boards.  Where rubber boards are better in terms of longevity is when drinks get spilled into the switch itself.  MX switches are mechanical and therefore relatively fragile.

 

 

 

also, you picked almost the worst 3 boards out there.  that explains why your experience was crap.

 

logitech g710+ has the worst switches (browns) with o-rings.  that board is meant to IMITATE a rubberdome board.  the difference between a rubberdome can be a 'shocking' experience for some people; using browns with orings makes everything more mushy like a rubberdome.

 

the leds failed on you k70.  refer to the longevity breakdown above.  i'm not sure what you mean by 'stuck'.  as in, your key was stuck depressed halfway down?

 

roccat is a horrible piece of hardware.  that's why it is bad. no, more detail is NOT needed.

 

 

EDIT:

 

there are reasons why duckys and filcos are recommended.

[LyR]

when people talk about MX longevity, they are talking about the SWITCH itself.  pcb, led, case shattering failures aren't different than regular boards.  Where rubber boards are better in terms of longevity is when drinks get spilled into the switch itself.  MX switches are mechanical and therefore relatively fragile.

 

 

 

also, you picked almost the worst 3 boards out there.  that explains why your experience was crap.

 

logitech g710+ has the worst switches (browns) with o-rings.  that board is meant to IMITATE a rubberdome board.  the difference between a rubberdome can be a 'shocking' experience for some people; using browns with orings makes everything more mushy like a rubberdome.

 

the leds failed on you k70.  refer to the longevity breakdown above.  i'm not sure what you mean by 'stuck'.  as in, your key was stuck depressed halfway down?

 

roccat is a horrible piece of hardware.  that's why it is bad. no, more detail is NOT needed.

 

 

EDIT:

 

there are reasons why duckys and filcos are recommended.

 

First, thanks for all the replies.

 

The thing is, those 3 were recommended to me. Like I said, I did my research and I didn't buy them out of the blue. Again, it was not an impulse purchase, I can't stress this enough.

People were talking about significantly better longevity & reliability of Cherry MX switches, on paper, but in reality they are way more fragile than any other Keyboard type. Sorry, but that's kinda an oxymoron to me. I didn't expect them to be that fragile. I doubt that a modern mechanical switch will ever reach 50mio keystrokes let alone 60mio like Razer claims.

I thought red switches were created to imitate the rubberdome feel?! Also, what's the point of that? Why create something that costs more than 70 - 100 bucks to produce (guess) and sell it for more than +120 buck to imitate the feeling of something that you can get for 20 - 60 bucks (a decent membrane one) I also hesitate to try more mechanical keyboards because the difference would be minimal since most of them use the same switches from Cherry. (now ZF electronics) I'm still looking for alternatives; some people swear by the Logitech Illuminated Keyboards. Are they really that good?

 

With stuck I meant when I pressed a key it went down but not up again, I had to press it again/fumble a bit to get it back up which shouldn't happen at all with Keyboards that cost more than 120 bucks in my humble opinion. Granted, it happened rarely but still often enough to annoy me.

I admit, the mistake with the not removable wrist rest (roccat keyboard) was my fault, but it's also difficult to tell on pictures how large it really is. You really have to try it yourself because there is always the change that you will like it and that it doesn't bother you that much. There is also a huge difference what quality/value means to each individual person, see this post That's why I tried to explain what consumer type I am in my first post. I think if mechanical keyboards were really much better like all the websites/users claim, the expensive price would be justified. Unfortunately, from my experience the opposite seems to be the case.

[Toby]

First, thanks for all the replies.

 

The thing is, those 3 were recommended to me. Like I said, I did my research and I didn't buy them out of the blue. Again, it was not an impulse purchase, I can't stress this enough.

People were talking about significantly better longevity & reliability of Cherry MX switches, on paper, but in reality they are way more fragile than any other Keyboard type. Sorry, but that's kinda an oxymoron to me. I didn't expect them to be that fragile. I doubt that a modern mechanical switch will ever reach 50mio keystrokes let alone 60mio like Razer claims.

I thought red switches were created to imitate the rubberdome feel?! Also, what's the point of that? Why create something that costs more than 70 - 100 bucks to produce (guess) and sell it for more than +120 buck to imitate the feeling of something that you can get for 20 - 60 bucks (a decent membrane one) I also hesitate to try more mechanical keyboards because the difference would be minimal since most of them use the same switches from Cherry. (now ZF electronics) I'm still looking for alternatives; some people swear by the Logitech Illuminated Keyboards. Are they really that good?

 

With stuck I meant when I pressed a key it went down but not up again, I had to press it again/fumble a bit to get it back up which shouldn't happen at all with Keyboards that cost more than 120 bucks in my humble opinion. Granted, it happened rarely but still often enough to annoy me.

I admit, the mistake with the not removable wrist rest (roccat keyboard) was my fault, but it's also difficult to tell on pictures how large it really is. You really have to try it yourself because there is always the change that you will like it and that it doesn't bother you that much. There is also a huge difference what quality/value means to each individual person, see this post That's why I tried to explain what consumer type I am in my first post. I think if mechanical keyboards were really much better like all the websites/users claim, the expensive price would be justified. Unfortunately, from my experience the opposite seems to be the case.

 

On what basis are you saying cherry switches are more fragile?

 

As far as feel goes, rubber domes "pop" down and then "pop" back up again, compare that to the click of a blue/brown or the straight-up linear travel of a red/black and I'm not sure how they feel the same to you, unless you're absolutely pounding the keys?

 

Also, where on earth are you doing all this research you speak of? I'm not sure I've ever heard of anyone's keyboard stop working because of dirt getting under the switches, and how could anyone make a blanket statement about "mechanical" switches being far from ideal for gaming? It's not true of cherry switches alone, let alone every possible mechanical switch in existence.

[cae]

There are some pseudo religious attitudes when it comes to mechanical keyboards. I agree that most are just not suited for gaming. The Logitech K740 is one of my favorites, only issue being its rollover programming matrix.