Have you seen this Laptop? (Wanted buyable or announced)

[Cannot_think_of_good_name]

WANTED!

• 2-in-1 Laptop
• 14-16" (16 preferred)
• R7-7840 U/HS
• 2560:1600 (true 16:10 1440p)
• M.2 2280 Slot (preferable second one, too)
• 16+ GB RAM (is it too much to hope for extendable one?)
• USB PD Charging (USB-C charging)
• 2x USB-A AND 2x USB-C
• Decent sound / trackpad / keyboard
• Maybe an OLED display? 400 nits, 90 Hz?

 

Joke aside, if you know about a laptop like that, please let me know!

Why is it that I can't find any R7-7840 Laptop? The HS "launched" in January. (Not even Notebookcheck seems to have done any tests on it...)

Does anyone know if laptop manufacturers could just rebrand the 6800Us to 7735U, or are they actually "new chips"? Also, why isn't it more common to be able to buy a laptop without storage and Windows license? I own multiple legal Win10 licenses. I do not want to buy another one, thank you!

 

A year ago I'd have loved the Yoga 7 (16" AMD) (GER/US), even though you only get a 300 nits, 60 Hz, 1080p (yeah, it's 1920x1200, but it's 1080 class) display. But now, the I want the new and shiny, or a sizeable price advantage over last gen (and no, the 7735U is not new. I refuse!) What are your thoughts?

What are the specs you're looking for? Do you think any of my choices are stupid? Let's talk about it!

- Jhon

 

[Bismut]

19 minutes ago, Cannot_think_of_good_name said:

16+ GB RAM (is it too much to hope for extendable one?)

Probably, although I believe that Lenovo had some Laptops with expandable RAM?

 

21 minutes ago, Cannot_think_of_good_name said:

Why is it that I can't find any R7-7840 Laptop? The HS "launched" in January. (Not even Notebookcheck seems to have done any tests on it...)

Did the market not cool down considerably? I thought everyone bought their tech during the pandemic and is good now, I would assume that they cannot see a lot of demand and do not want to implement the chip? Kind of weird that there are no laptops with it, though.

 

21 minutes ago, Cannot_think_of_good_name said:

But now, the I want the new and shiny, or a sizeable price advantage over last gen (and no, the 7735U is not new. I refuse!) What are your thoughts?

Quite reasonable, but I doubt that the manufacturers care. I would love to get a last-gen device for a bargain, but that seems like something you would only get in a store or as a refurbished unit

[LapsedMemory]

The framework laptop 13" has the components you're asking for, so the 16" should release with them once it finally releases, and you can bring your own OS. 

Framework | Choose Framework Laptop 13 DIY Edition (AMD Ryzen™ 7040

 

You'll be waiting a bit for it, though.

[Cannot_think_of_good_name]

16 hours ago, Bismut said:

Probably, although I believe that Lenovo had some Laptops with expandable RAM?

 

Yeah, from what I've seen mostly in the Thinkpad series. Some of those are more consumer facing, but some are clearly business focused with what seems like a 1k upcharge for shits and giggles. Never held one of the current gens though, only like 10 year olds, so I can't say for sure.

 

16 hours ago, Bismut said:

Did the market not cool down considerably? I thought everyone bought their tech during the pandemic and is good now, I would assume that they cannot see a lot of demand and do not want to implement the chip? Kind of weird that there are no laptops with it, though.

Understandable on the one hand, but if there's a slow down, I'd have guessed that you try to find an edge to incentivise consumers to buy your stuff anyway? So why is it no problem finding 7735U (6800U) or 7730U (5800U) designs? 
Some people wouldn't know that these are last or year before last chips in there... But these are no r/i3 models, where I wouldn't assume buyers to know or care for the difference. Is it too much to expect that someone buying a higher power computer knowing these things?

 

 

 

15 hours ago, LapsedMemory said:

The framework laptop 13" has the components you're asking for, so the 16" should release with them once it finally releases, and you can bring your own OS. 

 

Yep, true, but they are not 2-in-1, or even have a touch option (last time I looked). And I did look. I'm hyped for the idea, but since my current laptop is not a 2-in-1, and the one before was, I _really_ don't want a non foldable again anymore... 

 

 

- J

 

[Bismut]

34 minutes ago, Cannot_think_of_good_name said:

Yeah, from what I've seen mostly in the Thinkpad series. Some of those are more consumer facing, but some are clearly business focused with what seems like a 1k upcharge for shits and giggles. Never held one of the current gens though, only like 10 year olds, so I can't say for sure.

They are not, I am afraid. I wanted to buy a laptop with upgradable RAM and figured they had that, but they do not (at least on the 13" laptops)

 

35 minutes ago, Cannot_think_of_good_name said:

Understandable on the one hand, but if there's a slow down, I'd have guessed that you try to find an edge to incentivise consumers to buy your stuff anyway?

Good point, I would have thought so too. But I guess not, maybe people really dropped 500-1000 on a laptop not too long ago and do not want to do so again?

 

37 minutes ago, Cannot_think_of_good_name said:

I wouldn't assume buyers to know or care for the difference. Is it too much to expect that someone buying a higher power computer knowing these things?

I do not expect people to know that sort of thing, just have a look at everything Apple (or the MS Surface Studio) and the continued existance of the GT1030 in "gaming" computers that cost upwards of 500€.

 

41 minutes ago, Cannot_think_of_good_name said:

Yep, true, but they are not 2-in-1, or even have a touch option (last time I looked). And I did look. I'm hyped for the idea, but since my current laptop is not a 2-in-1, and the one before was, I _really_ don't want a non foldable again anymore... 

We are in the exact same boat, then. I really want a Framework, but I do not want to have a touchscreenless, non-convertible Laptop any more either. Guess I just have to wait and continue to use my desktop computer for "real" work.

[Cannot_think_of_good_name]

4 minutes ago, Bismut said:

Good point, I would have thought so too. But I guess not, maybe people really dropped 500-1000 on a laptop not too long ago and do not want to do so again?

Well, they certainly won't (or shouldn't) for the same cpu with a shiny new name. Maybe they would for a new one, which is exactly my point. And someone who didn't the past few years would now (should now) feel pretty crap about buying a new laptop with a 5800U/7730U inside.

 

8 minutes ago, Bismut said:

I do not expect people to know that sort of thing, just have a look at everything Apple (or the MS Surface Studio) and the continued existance of the GT1030 in "gaming" computers that cost upwards of 500€.

I'll just ignore boutique apple like products (because there are other factors at play), but the 1030, even missing the X after GT is exactly what I meant with the i3/r3 argument. When I looked for a laptop for my mother a couple of years ago, I got her an (at that point) 2 year old i3, because it was cheap and performed better than current Athlons etc. At that performance/price level I could understand going for a Ryzen 3 7320U, because honestly that looks like a good chip, if it is cheap enough. 4 Zen 2 cores are decent and 2 RDNA 2 GPU cores should be enough for web and videoplayback. 
BUT the 7730U with 8 Zen 3 cores still has the Vega Graphics cores. 

 - I'm currently on a 4600H, so the 7730U would certainly be an upgrade. More and better CPU cores, and more GPU cores, as well as DDR5, which probably helps the GPU a bit further still. The 7735U would now also be RDNA 2, so a good upgrade in that regard, which is why last year I would have loved the 6800U, but didn't find anything interesting, and to be honest, I didn't need an update/grade. This year though, my laptop starts fucking around, and definitely shows it's issues more and more. For me a new laptop is a not insignificant investment, So looking at the 7735U (6800U), I think about next year, when I will be two generations behind, which is usually when the itch to upgrade starts again. In two years, it'll be three generations, and I hope to keep that laptop running for at least another year. 
That's how I look at it: How much time does it give me between wanting to upgrade and actually upgrading. If it makes financial sense to get the older chips, because it enables me to upgrade again sooner, sure! But otherwise it's hard for me to justify. 

38 minutes ago, Bismut said:

We are in the exact same boat, then. I really want a Framework, but I do not want to have a touchscreenless, non-convertible Laptop any more either. Guess I just have to wait and continue to use my desktop computer for "real" work.

Is this where you pitch the ITX build?
I'll have to figure out a solution within the next half year, hopefully before this piece of shit I'm currently using completely disintegrates. I'd hate to buy "whatever I can get", because the alternative is not having a computer.

 

- J 

[Bismut]

5 minutes ago, Cannot_think_of_good_name said:

This year though, my laptop starts fucking around, and definitely shows it's issues more and more. For me a new laptop is a not insignificant investment, So looking at the 7735U (6800U), I think about next year, when I will be two generations behind,

F
I would not want to buy the old gen for current-gen prices either, but I am afraid that you might have to bite the bullet if your laptop just dies. What are the issues, is it just performance/battery or the thing itself?

 

7 minutes ago, Cannot_think_of_good_name said:

That's how I look at it: How much time does it give me between wanting to upgrade and actually upgrading. If it makes financial sense to get the older chips, because it enables me to upgrade again sooner, sure! But otherwise it's hard for me to justify. 

I hate having to shop for a new laptop because there are so many scams going around (see the 7730H/7735H or "RTX 3090")

 

8 minutes ago, Cannot_think_of_good_name said:

Is this where you pitch the ITX build?

No, I do not think that it is realistic to build a custom PC to compete with a good 2-in-1, at least in terms of portability. ITX builds tend to be way more powerful though, especially compared to "gaming" laptops. I might consider something like the AsRock DeskMeet/DeskSlim instead of a "normal" laptop if you are mostly sat at a desk, but you cannot beat Laptops for mobile word processing, at least with a custom rig.

[Cannot_think_of_good_name]

6 minutes ago, Bismut said:

I hate having to shop for a new laptop because there are so many scams going around (see the 7730H/7735H or "RTX 3090")

I haven't come across any scams yet... Though that might be either because I'm always cross referencing (for price reasons), or because I'm not looking at what is most profitable for scammers... (Also I don't see the issue with 7735H(-S), and wouldn't look at a 3090 in a laptop^^)

 

12 minutes ago, Bismut said:

What are the issues, is it just performance/battery or the thing itself?

The laptop itself has annoyed me for two years (of the 2 1/2 I'm owning it) now. Just a couple of things that are not well thought out, that I discovered over the years (eg. heat/power management, constantly clogging up fins, only one USB-C Port, which can't be used when charging without a dongle, ...) And now the display is starting to have issues (probably the ribbon cable), and more and more instances of blue screens with a "video memory management issue". Oh yeah, and the battery is getting worse, but I don't plan to replace it with all the other issues...

It'll keep for a couple of months still though. - Hopefully. 

[Selle]

I gave up finding something that I liked with the newest COP and ordered a Lenovo Ideapad Flex 5 16" AMD. It ticks most of you boxes, but no the CPU and only one USB-C

 

The config I got:

Processor  -  AMD Ryzen™ 7 7730U Processor (2.00 GHz up to 4.50 GHz)
Operating System  -  Windows 11 Home 64
Operating System Language  -  Windows 11 Home 64 Nordics (EN/FI/SV/DK/NO)
Microsoft Productivity Software  -  Microsoft Office Trial
Memory  -  16 GB LPDDR4X-4266MHz (Soldered)
Solid State Drive  -  512 GB SSD M.2 2242 PCIe Gen4 TLC
Display  -  16" WQXGA (2560 x 1600), IPS, Glare, Touch, 100%sRGB, 400 nits, 60Hz, Narrow Bezel
Graphic Card  -  Integrated Graphics
Camera  -  FHD with Dual Microphone
Pen  -  Lenovo Digital Pen
Color  -  Arctic Grey
Fingerprint Reader  -  Fingerprint Reader
Keyboard  -  Backlit, Storm Grey - Nordic
Wireless  -  Wi-Fi 6 2x2 AX & Bluetooth® 5.1 or above

[Darkseth]

On 6/8/2023 at 4:09 PM, Cannot_think_of_good_name said:

WANTED!

• 2-in-1 Laptop
• 14-16" (16 preferred)
• R7-7840 U/HS
• 2560:1600 (true 16:10 1440p)
• M.2 2280 Slot (preferable second one, too)
• 16+ GB RAM (is it too much to hope for extendable one?)
• USB PD Charging (USB-C charging)
• 2x USB-A AND 2x USB-C
• Decent sound / trackpad / keyboard
• Maybe an OLED display? 400 nits, 90 Hz?

 

Joke aside, if you know about a laptop like that, please let me know!

14":

- Lenovo Yoga 7 14ARP8. Consider the previous model instead if it's cheaper, Yoga 7 14ARB7. It's almost the sa me Zen3 Chip, but some benefits. On the new 14ARP8, Lenovo went down from HDMI 2.1 to HDMI 1.4b

 

16":

- Lenovo Ideapad Flex 5 16ABR8 (midrange, not high end!)

- Asus ROG Flow x16 GV601RM.

On 6/8/2023 at 4:09 PM, Cannot_think_of_good_name said:

Why is it that I can't find any R7-7840 Laptop? The HS "launched" in January. (Not even Notebookcheck seems to have done any tests on it...)

Because manufacturers launch their Laptops when it's time for them. Like once per Year, or after anotehr Series/Launch is finished. Similar to Google Pixel, they launch in Fall, even if Qualcom has the Chip ready by March.

On 6/8/2023 at 4:09 PM, Cannot_think_of_good_name said:

Does anyone know if laptop manufacturers could just rebrand the 6800Us to 7735U, or are they actually "new chips"?

Laptop Manufacturers rebrand nothing, they buy from AMD, and put it inside. They couldn't rebrand it, even if they wanted.

AMD does the rebranding

On 6/8/2023 at 4:09 PM, Cannot_think_of_good_name said:

Also, why isn't it more common to be able to buy a laptop without storage and Windows license? I own multiple legal Win10 licenses. I do not want to buy another one, thank you!

Because the vast majority of Consumers don't have multiple licences. Why would they? They want to buy a Computer, open it, and use it.

 

If you buy a Laptop, you don't own another Licence forever, it's a licence only for THIS one Computer. You won't be able to keep it after you resell the Computer.

On 6/8/2023 at 4:09 PM, Cannot_think_of_good_name said:

What are the specs you're looking for? Do you think any of my choices are stupid? Let's talk about it!

i don't think any choice is stupid. You want what you want.

But if it's Zen4 you want, you're very limited for the next while.

 

There are some in "normal" Laptops, but not a single Zen4 in a Convertible yet.

[Bismut]

On 6/9/2023 at 11:07 AM, Cannot_think_of_good_name said:

I haven't come across any scams yet...

Scams = 7730H/7735H or "RTX 3090" = Silicon that is not what the name suggests it is

 

On 6/9/2023 at 11:07 AM, Cannot_think_of_good_name said:

And now the display is starting to have issues (probably the ribbon cable), and more and more instances of blue screens with a "video memory management issue".

I take it that the warranty period has passed?

[Darkseth]

4 hours ago, Bismut said:

Scams = 7730H/7735H or "RTX 3090" = Silicon that is not what the name suggests it is

That's not a Scam, it's a valid rebrand (despite me having the personal opinion, that rebrands are only confusing for customers).

 

AMD themselfes never tried to hide it, so it can't be a scam: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/09/amd-is-making-laptop-cpu-model-numbers-simultaneously-less-and-more-confusing/

If you understand this Slide, you fully understand the naming scheme - unless AMD changes it soon, since they just started doing it that way.

 

[Cannot_think_of_good_name]

On 6/9/2023 at 12:39 PM, Selle said:

I gave up finding something that I liked with the newest COP and ordered a Lenovo Ideapad Flex 5 16" AMD. It ticks most of you boxes, but no the CPU and only one USB-C

Are you happy with it? - build quality, screen, touch input, things like that?
My issue with that one is that it's basically got a r7-5800U in it, which still runs on Vega Graphics. At the minimum I'd want RDNA 2 Graphics (6800U/7735U)

 

 

 

On 6/9/2023 at 6:38 PM, Darkseth said:

Lenovo Yoga 7 14ARP8. Consider the previous model instead if it's cheaper, Yoga 7 14ARB7. It's almost the sa me Zen3 Chip, but some benefits. On the new 14ARP8, Lenovo went down from HDMI 2.1 to HDMI 1.4b

I've looked at those, and the HDMI 1.4b also confused me. But when I last looked that was even inconsistent, and I had guessed that that was a mistake? I mean 1.4b is ancient at this point. I would hope that they put in a 2.0 even if it's not 2.1?
I can't even see the gen 7 one...
Also, I've read a lot of remarks of people saying they can see the touchscreen which makes a weird pattern on the 2880x1800 model. Have you tried it yourself?
My local shop didn't have one last time I was there. 

Also, even the newer one has the last gen 6800u/7735U in it...

 

On 6/9/2023 at 6:38 PM, Darkseth said:

- Lenovo Ideapad Flex 5 16ABR8 (midrange, not high end!)

Or even the two year old 5800U/7730U

 

On 6/9/2023 at 6:38 PM, Darkseth said:

Asus ROG Flow x16 GV601RM

Oh, I would love that one. I've read that the mini LED display can look kinda weird, but I'm sure it would be fine. The issue with this one is: I'd like to spend less than 1500€, and have a hard limit at 1800€. The cheapest Flow x16 without the fancy mini LEDs starts at 2300€... But yes, that one looked nice, and I had to stop myself from drooling, when I first saw it

 

On 6/9/2023 at 6:38 PM, Darkseth said:

Laptop Manufacturers rebrand nothing, they buy from AMD, and put it inside. They couldn't rebrand it, even if they wanted.

AMD does the rebranding

Hmm, maybe I phrased that badly. What I'm wondering is more: if a Laptop manufacturer had a palette of 6800s, but wanted to produce 7735-laptops, could they get a micro-code update (or something similar) from AMD so they would identify as such in the finished product? Or could they send them back to AMD, to get that done by AMD? Or are the 7735s actually more recently produced and physically different from the 6800Us?

 

On 6/9/2023 at 6:38 PM, Darkseth said:

If you buy a Laptop, you don't own another Licence forever, it's a licence only for THIS one Computer. You won't be able to keep it after you resell the Computer.

Not if I resell it. But if I break it. Or if I buy an old laptop to open up and experiment with or put Linux on. Some of the older ones even have the license key printed under the battery or something.

 

 

 

On 6/10/2023 at 11:50 AM, Bismut said:

I take it that the warranty period has passed?

Yeah... There had been... issues with the warrenty, that I could probably have pressed, if I had been willing to involve lawyers. But at the time I was quite stressed with other stuff already. 

 

 

 

On 6/10/2023 at 4:23 PM, Darkseth said:

That's not a Scam, it's a valid rebrand (despite me having the personal opinion, that rebrands are only confusing for customers).

I think the issue here is that there are no "7730H/7735H" chips 
There is a "7735HS", but none without the S, and no 7730H(S) at all. (see here at the bottom)

Similarly, the laptop 30-series GPUs only go up to the 3080Ti. (see here)

 

[Selle]

1 hour ago, Cannot_think_of_good_name said:

Are you happy with it? - build quality, screen, touch input, things like that?
My issue with that one is that it's basically got a r7-5800U in it, which still runs on Vega Graphics. At the minimum I'd want RDNA 2 Graphics (6800U/7735U)

I haven’t spent a lot of time with it yet, buzzy at work and traveling in the weekends, but this is my first impressions of it

 

It feels cheap to me, but I am used to high end laptops with a price tag to match. I don’t think it’s too bad for its price. The screen is good and the touch works great. The touch pad is not amazing, but it isn’t bad either. Same with the keyboard. CPU performance is very good. I have no tested any GPU performance, I got it for photo editing, and GPU performance doesn’t matter for me. It works great with a Lenovo USB-C docking

[Bismut]

9 hours ago, Cannot_think_of_good_name said:

Similarly, the laptop 30-series GPUs only go up to the 3080Ti. (see here)

What is this, then?

 

On 6/10/2023 at 4:23 PM, Darkseth said:

That's not a Scam, it's a valid rebrand (despite me having the personal opinion, that rebrands are only confusing for customers).

I would call it a deceptive rebrand at best, it seems like they are trying to fool people into believing something to be newer.

 

9 hours ago, Cannot_think_of_good_name said:

Not if I resell it. But if I break it. Or if I buy an old laptop to open up and experiment with or put Linux on. Some of the older ones even have the license key printed under the battery or something.

Why do you care about the licenses? I have never had a legit copy of Windows 7, 10 or older and have had zero issues.

[Cannot_think_of_good_name]

12 hours ago, Bismut said:

What is this, then?

 

Well, the 5800U is a very different Chip to the 5800(X). As is the 12600 to the 12600H. The difference is that we don't expect laptop and desktop CPUs to be the same. Why do we expect that from GPUs?!?
Having said that, the way that NVIDIA handles the notebook GPUs certainly seems to be intended to deceive. 

 

13 hours ago, Bismut said:

I would call it a deceptive rebrand at best, it seems like they are trying to fool people into believing something to be newer.

I prefer this naming to the one they used before, eg. the 5700U vs. 5800U. Yes, it's annoying, but if they have to do it, then at least they give you all the important information right in the name. And to be fair, a lot of consumers wouldn't notice the difference... I wish they didn't do it (or have to do it) though.

 

13 hours ago, Bismut said:

Why do you care about the licenses? I have never had a legit copy of Windows 7, 10 or older and have had zero issues.

My issue is that I don't want to buy another license. I want to buy my laptop without an OS, so I can either put one of my previous Windows licenses or Linux on it. What I don't want is my laptop to be 100€ more expensive for benefit to me^^

 

- J

[Bismut]

2 hours ago, Cannot_think_of_good_name said:

My issue is that I don't want to buy another license. I want to buy my laptop without an OS, so I can either put one of my previous Windows licenses or Linux on it. What I don't want is my laptop to be 100€ more expensive for benefit to me^^

I doubt that you would save 100€ just because of the windows license. OEMs will get cheap keys, so you might save 20€ at most? I honestly doubt that Dell or HP are even paying that much.

[Cannot_think_of_good_name]

17 minutes ago, Bismut said:

I doubt that you would save 100€ just because of the windows license. OEMs will get cheap keys, so you might save 20€ at most? I honestly doubt that Dell or HP are even paying that much.

Yes, and put the other 80€ towards profit, probably. 
In the rare cases where you can buy the same laptop with or without windows, 60-100€ is the difference between them... That's where I got that number.