Is 12GB of VRAM enough for the future?

[Floresdorf]

@WallacEngineering

I changed the case and the gpu, so now everything should be fine.

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/Floresdorf/saved/#view=mdjvRB

[WallacEngineering]

2 hours ago, Floresdorf said:

@WallacEngineering

I changed the case and the gpu, so now everything should be fine.

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/Floresdorf/saved/#view=mdjvRB

I would say the only thing here is no need fof 64GB RAM on a gaming machine, 32GB is perfect.

[Floresdorf]

14 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

I would say the only thing here is no need fof 64GB RAM on a gaming machine, 32GB is perfect.

I forgot to add that it's also for video editing

[Techboah]

Hard to tell for 5 years into the future, but for 1440p? It'll be enough for at least 2-3 years. People repeat 2(literally just TWO) games that 12GB is suddenly not enough for anything and every game will use 24 gigs of VRAM from now on, but the thing is... those two examples are games of bad optimization, one of which(TLOU) already drastically reduced VRAM usage after multiple patches.

 

People throwing a fit over 12GB VRAM not being enough are people trying to normalize and accept bad ports as normal, and want the industry to accept top-end cards bruteforcing through that while everything else sucks.

 

And we haven't seen any game use a proper, full implementation of Microsoft's DirectStorage tech which will help lower VRAM need of new games drastically. Thanks to HUB(the channel that openly defended Jedi Survivor as being a well optimized and well scaling game to fit their narrative) throwing a hissy fit over VRAM count because it was helping their Pro-AMD agenda(they're in a price-fixing duopoly with Nvidia, nothing to defend about them) caused the whole argument to be overblown.

 

Should xx70 series and higher GPUs have more VRAM? Yes. Are these cards priced badly(from both sides)? Absolutely. Is 12GB VRAM suddenly not enough for 1440p? Lol no, it's plenty.

[Floresdorf]

1 hour ago, Techboah said:

Hard to tell for 5 years into the future, but for 1440p? It'll be enough for at least 2-3 years. People repeat 2(literally just TWO) games that 12GB is suddenly not enough for anything and every game will use 24 gigs of VRAM from now on, but the thing is... those two examples are games of bad optimization, one of which(TLOU) already drastically reduced VRAM usage after multiple patches.

 

People throwing a fit over 12GB VRAM not being enough are people trying to normalize and accept bad ports as normal, and want the industry to accept top-end cards bruteforcing through that while everything else sucks.

 

And we haven't seen any game use a proper, full implementation of Microsoft's DirectStorage tech which will help lower VRAM need of new games drastically. Thanks to HUB(the channel that openly defended Jedi Survivor as being a well optimized and well scaling game to fit their narrative) throwing a hissy fit over VRAM count because it was helping their Pro-AMD agenda(they're in a price-fixing duopoly with Nvidia, nothing to defend about them) caused the whole argument to be overblown.

 

Should xx70 series and higher GPUs have more VRAM? Yes. Are these cards priced badly(from both sides)? Absolutely. Is 12GB VRAM suddenly not enough for 1440p? Lol no, it's plenty.

Well, I mean, if the rx 7900xt is more powerful in rasterised games, has 67% more vram, and is a bit cheaper than the rtx 4070ti, of course I’m gonna take it.

[Techboah]

2 hours ago, Floresdorf said:

Well, I mean, if the rx 7900xt is more powerful in rasterised games, has 67% more vram, and is a bit cheaper than the rtx 4070ti, of course I’m gonna take it.

I mean, it entirely depends on which games we're talking about. Not to mention the question of technology like DLSS and Frame-Gen. In the big picture of things, the 4070 Ti is more future proof than a 7900XT, but neither of them are decent buys at the current state of the market.

[Montana One-Six]

22 hours ago, WallacEngineering said:

The problem is newer games, coming out right now or being developed right now.

They are not. Lets take a look at peak VRAM usage of 10 new games (~1 year old and newer) at 4K max:

(Games marked with a * are games that aren't playable at 4K60 without a 4090)

 

Callisto Protocol: 7-8GB (8-9GB with RT)

Deadspace Remastered: 8-9GB

Atomic Heart: 7-8GB

God of War: 7-8GB

A Plague Tale Requiem: 6-7GB

Resident Evil 4 Remake: 10-11GB (11-12GB with RT)

Dead Island 2: 9-10GB

Company of Heroes: 8-9GB

*Star Wars Jedi Surivor: 10-11GB (12GB-13GB with RT)

*Hogwarts Legacy: 11-12GB (14-15GB with RT)

 

7 of 10 games don't even use 10GB of VRAM. All games are below 12 GB of VRAM with rasterization. Only 2 games get over 12GB VRAM and only when using RT. These two games are also not playable at 4K60 (with or without RT) unless a 4090 is used. So if those 2 games are excluded there is literally no game unplayable because of VRAM. Plus Jedi survivor and Hogwarts legacy point to another issue which is the general lack of performance being a bigger factor at 4K rather than the lack of VRAM.

 

22 hours ago, WallacEngineering said:

Do you see the problem yet?

No I do not but I also have no Idea what that picture is saying because I cannot read whatever is written there.

 

22 hours ago, WallacEngineering said:

a, the RTX 3060 12GB is BEATING the RTX 3070 8GB literally because the VRAM demand has exceeded 8GB and the RTX 3070 cannot handle it properly. The VRAM is dumping into system RAM, drastically reducing FPS as the game begins to stutter.

We are talking about 12GB VRAM cards so I don't know what an 8GB card is doing in this conversation... .

 

22 hours ago, WallacEngineering said:

As you can see, in general - VRAM usage is increasing in a fairly linear way. And 12 GB is already maxed out in the Last of Us, which isn't even the most VRAM demanding game out there right now.

Of course the VRAM usage is increasing when it is sorted by VRAM usage. TLOU is a bad port on a technical level and apparently VRAM usage has been reduced since its release so the numbers aren't accurate anymore.

 

22 hours ago, WallacEngineering said:

As we said much earlier in the comments: Devs have already officially stated that they are aiming for 12-14GB usage in 4K, they are fed up with 8GB limitations, the actual makers of games are actually stating this, right now - meaning if you want to be able to play new games without any issues at 4K, you need a card with 16GB of VRAM now.

Just as the devs from that one game that said 3 years ago their game needs 16GB VRAM at 4K which ended up only using 8GB at 4K?

 

22 hours ago, WallacEngineering said:

Getting too close to your VRAM limit is NOT a good thing, you want a bit of overhead. This is because if you max out for even a single second, your GPU will have to offload into System RAM and you will notice a stutter.

 

So while 12GB IS INDEED enough for 4K on most games right now, that does NOT mean it is to be recommended. You can't recommend hardware that is on the very edge of failure, especially as VRAM demand from games is steadily increasing as we speak. You need some headroom, so 16GB is the recommendation now for 1440p Ultra or 4K.

Yes more than 12GB is indeed a nice to have but it doesn't change the fact that 12GB will be enough for at least a few more years even at 4K. Plus as I said before at 4K the general lack of performance will be the bigger factor than the lack of VRAM in the next few years. Which means all those cards with less than 16GB will reach their performance limit at 4K before the VRAM limit will be an issue.

[Floresdorf]

I think many people underestimate how much vram is going to be used at 4k in a few years. I predict that in 2 years 12gb cards will be struggling at 4k.

But I also don’t believe that in 3-4 years 16gb cards won’t do for 4k gaming. 
And I also think that right now, 12gb is good for 4k. 
“Don’t tell me you didn’t know, I warned you!”

[Agall]

On 5/25/2023 at 8:33 AM, Floresdorf said:

@Ottoman420 @Agall @JimTheBeet @Clearviper @johnno23 @Montana One-Six @WallacEngineering @e22big

I'm still not sure if the 12gb on the 4070ti will be enough. I have three options:

1. Buy the 4070ti and hope vram won't be a problem in the future

2. Buy a 3090 (which is cheaper here) and than waiting 2 years to buy something better

3. Buy an rx 7900xt for the same price as a 4070ti, but have a lot less features than a nvidia card, and also worse productivity outside of video rendering

Unfortunately the RTX 4090 is the best new generation card with a $1600 minimum price. I've heard inklings about its future value due to its DLSS/AI performance as well, but I haven't seen anything concrete to back that up.

 

If you're concerned about ray tracing, VRAM, rendering, and overall performance, then just bite the bullet and get an RTX 4090. Otherwise you'll have to settle somewhere, and RT performance really isn't that important still.

[Floresdorf]

3 hours ago, Agall said:

Unfortunately the RTX 4090 is the best new generation card with a $1600 minimum price. I've heard inklings about its future value due to its DLSS/AI performance as well, but I haven't seen anything concrete to back that up.

 

If you're concerned about ray tracing, VRAM, rendering, and overall performance, then just bite the bullet and get an RTX 4090. Otherwise you'll have to settle somewhere, and RT performance really isn't that important still.

I think you haven't read all the other comments on this post

I decided to go with a rx 7900xt.

Here's the link for the PCPartPicker list: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/Floresdorf/saved/#view=mdjvRB

(Prices are in russian rubles, I've put them there myself - pretend that the $ is a ₽)

[Agall]

8 minutes ago, Floresdorf said:

I think you haven't read all the other comments on this post

I decided to go with a rx 7900xt.

Here's the link for the PCPartPicker list: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/Floresdorf/saved/#view=mdjvRB

(Prices are in russian rubles, I've put them there myself - pretend that the $ is a ₽)

7900 XT is a great card, a friend just configured a pre-builid with one based on my recommendation.

 

Just don't expect ultra ray tracing since really the 4090 is the only card that can do it with 'no compromise'. If you're content with a 'cinematic' experience, then sure, 60 fps with FSR all day.

[GraphyGamingGGYT]

On 5/25/2023 at 8:03 PM, Floresdorf said:

@Ottoman420 @Agall @JimTheBeet @Clearviper @johnno23 @Montana One-Six @WallacEngineering @e22big

I'm still not sure if the 12gb on the 4070ti will be enough. I have three options:

1. Buy the 4070ti and hope vram won't be a problem in the future

2. Buy a 3090 (which is cheaper here) and than waiting 2 years to buy something better

3. Buy an rx 7900xt for the same price as a 4070ti, but have a lot less features than a nvidia card, and also worse productivity outside of video rendering

I am also in the same scenario, i am hoping that 4070 12GB VRAM will last fine for 3-4 Year