I need some help understanding why my memories arent working with its XMP profile activated

[dgdg]

Ryzen 5600, Steping VMR-B2, Codename Vermeer. I also had a 3600X in the past and my pc presented the same behavior.

Mobo: GIGABYTE B450 AORUS M, Firm version F63a (the problem also happened with different BIOS versions [I guess I updated this firmware 2 times so the problem happened in 3 different versions of it] )

 

2x8gb (F4-3000C15-8GVKB), XMP: 15-16-16-35 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) 1.35v:

Spoiler

Module Manufacturer:    G.Skill
Module Part Number:    F4-3000C15-8GVKB
Module Series:    Ripjaws V Black
DRAM Manufacturer:    Hynix
DRAM Components:    H5AN8G8NCJR-TFC
DRAM Die Revision / Process Node:    C / 18 nm
Module Manufacturing Date:    Undefined
Module Manufacturing Location:    Taipei, Taiwan
Module Serial Number:    00000000h
Module PCB Revision:    00h

Many things here, the first one is that whenever I try to run the pc with the XMP profile enabled, the pc crashes right at the Windows boot process. A ton of errors in memtest86 right after the it starts testing. Ive tried Vram settings from 1.2v to 1.36v with no success at all, same behavior. I've tried to set those values manually with no success as well

The Windows only boots when I set the System Memory Multiplier to 29.33 from 30/auto. Whenever I do that, the pc works flawlessly. No crashes at all. I can use whatever VRAM voltage I wish from 1.2v to 1.35v and it works perfectly. There is a caveat, however: the timmings of the memory changes by itself. What should to be "15-16-16-35" becomes "16-16-16-35" for no reason at all:

 

I also tried fine tunning it with help of a calculator: the pc wont even POST. Ive used the following configs (SAFE values)

 

So, thats it. How can I at least make it work fine with the XMP's values? Anything I could check. Im pretty noob with most of it so there is a huge chance Ive missed obvious stuffs during the journey...

[--SID--]

BIOS is over a year old. You have to update to the latest version first.

[RONOTHAN##]

38 minutes ago, dgdg said:

What should to be "15-16-16-35" becomes "16-16-16-35" for no reason at all

That's because GDM is enabled. Gear Down Mode (GDM) is something on AMD chips that massively improves memory stability at the expense of a bit of memory latency and does not allow for a couple timings to work at even values, the biggest of which being CAS Latency. 

 

40 minutes ago, dgdg said:

I also tried fine tunning it with help of a calculator: the pc wont even POST. Ive used the following configs (SAFE values)

Those "Safe" values are very tight for CJR, I would be very surprised if they worked at all. If you want actual safe values for CJR, do 3600 CL16-19-19-39 @1.4V, that should just work assuming the BIOS supports it. 

 

It's possible that the BIOS your using either has broken memory overclocking entirely (not unheard up) or the 3000MT/s ratio is broken in the BIOS (also not unheard of). I would try to go for some higher memory frequencies if you have CJR, it can do over 3600 board willing. That said, did you check both RAM sticks with Thaiphoon? That model number makes it sound like you bought two 8GB sticks individually and are running them together, which can cause a lot of issues like this. Check in Thaiphoon that the sticks are actually the same. 

[dgdg]

1 hour ago, RONOTHAN## said:

That's because GDM is enabled. Gear Down Mode (GDM) is something on AMD chips that massively improves memory stability at the expense of a bit of memory latency and does not allow for a couple timings to work at even values, the biggest of which being CAS Latency. 

 

Those "Safe" values are very tight for CJR, I would be very surprised if they worked at all. If you want actual safe values for CJR, do 3600 CL16-19-19-39 @1.4V, that should just work assuming the BIOS supports it. 

 

It's possible that the BIOS your using either has broken memory overclocking entirely (not unheard up) or the 3000MT/s ratio is broken in the BIOS (also not unheard of). I would try to go for some higher memory frequencies if you have CJR, it can do over 3600 board willing. That said, did you check both RAM sticks with Thaiphoon? That model number makes it sound like you bought two 8GB sticks individually and are running them together, which can cause a lot of issues like this. Check in Thaiphoon that the sticks are actually the same. 

Good to know about GDM, no idea about taht. Do you also know why its a problem to have timings working at even values?

My memory is a 3000mhz, are you sure I should even bother to try it at 3600mhz even if my mobo had the 3000mt/s problem? I can try, anyway. Ive tried something similar after my opening the thread, I've tried to run it at the multiplier right after 30 with loose timings. It didnt work aswell.

I have checked both sticks many times in the past, with many programs, but I think ive not checked them both yesterday with Thaiphoon. Im sure they are the same model, and I also bought them together, as a pair. gotta check now if every component between them matches.

[RONOTHAN##]

1 minute ago, dgdg said:

Good to know about GDM, no idea about taht. Do you also know why its a problem to have timings working at even values?

No idea, AMD's documentation isn't public. Odd CAS latency is just an issue with the Ryzen 3000/5000 series memory controller, some boards can kinda do it but there are a number where CL15 or CL17 just will not work under any situation. 

 

3 minutes ago, dgdg said:

are you sure I should even bother to try it at 3600mhz even if my mobo had the 3000mt/s problem?

It's possible the 3000MT/s ratio is broken, hence why it isn't working (on my Z690 Unify-X, for instance, I can boot 8200, and I can boot 8400, but 8266 won't, at least on the A9 BIOS). I've yet to see an AMD BIOS revision where the 3600 ratio is broken, so it's not like it would hurt to try, and you'd get a pretty nice performance uplift from it as well if it does work. If it doesn't work, just clear CMOS and go back to trying 3000MT/s. 

 

7 minutes ago, dgdg said:

I have checked both sticks many times in the past, with many programs, but I think ive not checked them both yesterday with Thaiphoon. Im sure they are the same model, and I also bought them together, as a pair. gotta check now if every component between them matches.

OK, it's probably just that the model number read out weird. Still check, it wouldn't hurt and it takes next to no time to do, but if you bought them at the exact same time and they were in a kit together they're the same. 

[dgdg]

1 hour ago, RONOTHAN## said:

That model number makes it sound like you bought two 8GB sticks individually and are running them together, which can cause a lot of issues like this. Check in Thaiphoon that the sticks are actually the same. 

Just checked it with excel, it highlights duplicated values, both modules are identical:

[dgdg]

5 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

No idea, AMD's documentation isn't public. Odd CAS latency is just an issue with the Ryzen 3000/5000 series memory controller, some boards can kinda do it but there are a number where CL15 or CL17 just will not work under any situation. 

 

It's possible the 3000MT/s ratio is broken, hence why it isn't working (on my Z690 Unify-X, for instance, I can boot 8200, and I can boot 8400, but 8266 won't, at least on the A9 BIOS). I've yet to see an AMD BIOS revision where the 3600 ratio is broken, so it's not like it would hurt to try, and you'd get a pretty nice performance uplift from it as well if it does work. If it doesn't work, just clear CMOS and go back to trying 3000MT/s. 

 

OK, it's probably just that the model number read out weird. Still check, it wouldn't hurt and it takes next to no time to do, but if you bought them at the exact same time and they were in a kit together they're the same. 

Gotta try your suggestions, Also gonna see if theres any new BIOS around, and look for more people having similar problem with this same mother board.

[dgdg]

4 hours ago, RONOTHAN## said:

No idea, AMD's documentation isn't public. Odd CAS latency is just an issue with the Ryzen 3000/5000 series memory controller, some boards can kinda do it but there are a number where CL15 or CL17 just will not work under any situation. 

 

It's possible the 3000MT/s ratio is broken, hence why it isn't working (on my Z690 Unify-X, for instance, I can boot 8200, and I can boot 8400, but 8266 won't, at least on the A9 BIOS). I've yet to see an AMD BIOS revision where the 3600 ratio is broken, so it's not like it would hurt to try, and you'd get a pretty nice performance uplift from it as well if it does work. If it doesn't work, just clear CMOS and go back to trying 3000MT/s. 

 

Ive tried the 36 multiplier (3600mhz) with no success. Ive decreased every timing by 2 to give the config some room to breath, but it doesnt even POSTs. Any suggestion on what to try with those timings in order to start raising the multiplier until I find the sweet sport?

[RONOTHAN##]

4 hours ago, dgdg said:

Ive tried the 36 multiplier (3600mhz) with no success. Ive decreased every timing by 2 to give the config some room to breath, but it doesnt even POSTs. Any suggestion on what to try with those timings in order to start raising the multiplier until I find the sweet sport?

So first thing you should do is check a different BIOS revision, it could just be that the one you're using has broken memory support. If that doesn't work, there are three things that you should try to see if they help:

1. Set the SOC voltage to 1.15V. This is where it sweet spots (or at least close enough) on almost every Ryzen 3000/5000 series chip out there. It's safe to run for long term use and it should hopefully eliminate memory controller issues from the potential causes of this. 
2. Mess with the ProcODT setting. Most set this good enough on auto, but it's very possible that your board does not. Try changing the values a bit to see if any of them help it boot higher frequencies than 3000MT/s. 
3. Try messing with the DRAM voltage a bit. I personally wouldn't want to run CJR at voltages above 1.45V for daily settings, but the increased memory controller voltage at 1.45V might be what's necessary to get it to work. 

There are some other things you can try, like messing with the RTTs and the drive strengths, but realistically they take so much effort to tune that I personally wouldn't bother if I made it that far.