AliExpress Wouldn't Lie... Right?

[ezio.cheung]

7 hours ago, AdamTheLawyer said:

On a related note ... is there a source for reasonably detailed specs? I'm curious to know how the two M.2 slots area keyed. Do they both support NVMe?

If you refer to my pervious comment the conversation from the second screenshot which mentioned it should be M.2 SATA only.

 

But if you refer to the specs sheet on "beex official store" on Aliexpress which was in the video, it mentioned one M key and one M/B key M.2 slot, so I guess one is for SATA M.2 (M/B key) another one is for NVMe (B key)?

 

I mean, 2 is better than 1 and better than half size M.2, so I can get on with it anyway?

[ezio.cheung]

8 hours ago, AdamTheLawyer said:

My 6-yo laptop is starting to give me issues, and I'm actually thinking seriously about this.

 

The keyboard is an abomination. But I can at least remap the "delete" key back to right shift. I might not be able to remap the power key (it might be set up separately), but I can at least disable it in Windows so it won't turn the computer off. Having no dedicated function row, delete, etc. wouldn't be great. But the worst can be mitigated.

 

No doubt the RAM and SSD that ship with it are crap. But I'll order the minimum config anyway... it looks like it's quite expandable. Even the shitty BIOS might be smart enough to run ram at its rated speed. 

 

And I expect the BIOS will be hacked soon enough. This feels like One of Those Things that a whole bunch of ... tinkerers ... end up getting all at once. And I wouldn't think this no-name manufacturer who's selling through old stock using a primitive BIOS would go out of their way to make it hard to modify or reverse engineer the BIOS. They've got nothing to protect there ... if somebody thinks of something better, their old stock goes up in price.

 

So I'm betting the BIOS issues, like the processor that won't turbo, RAM speeds, etc., get ironed out. (And even if they don't, the machine will drastically outperform my current laptop.)

 

So what's left? The top screen is kinda crappy. Maybe that can be replaced, but probably not. And I'm guessing I won't care that much.

 

And ... well ... the second screen is just really cool. 

 

It's not a huge risk. It's sorely tempting.

 

Am I missing something important here? 

 

One question. On the official Crelander AliExpress store, they seem to have a few different base prices for the same machine, Some are just different configs, but if you look, there are different base prices for the same ram/ssd setup for what look like identical machines. Is there any difference?

 

... and one more note. I noticed this picture in one of the AliExpress ads:

 

 

 

It appears to show a much better version of the keyboard and touchpad. There's an added row of function keys above the numbers, and three buttons above the touchpad. That gives "delete" and "power" somewhere else to go and regular order is restored to the Eastern Front. 

 

For a while I was wondering whether there might be a more advanced version of the keyboard/trackpad module floating around.

 

After some reverse image searching, I'm pretty sure that's just the keyboard from the Asus dual-screen laptop. (Please correct me if I'm wrong).

 

EDIT: There's no chance that the manufacturer figured "in for a penny, in for a pound", and designed their keyboard and trackpad assembly to be hot-swappable for the Asus part, did they?

 

I mean ... that's what I'd do. Cut costs by offering a keyboard, and create a free upgrade path just by using the same screw mounts and pinout as the competition. This is why NeXT used ADB.

 

EDIT 2: I'm joyously overthinking this. But it occurs to me that the crappy keyboard is probably enough to keep prices down and tilt the market toward users that probably plan to remap it (i.e. nerdy tinkerer types). If that's who the remaining stock ends up with ... all the more reason to expect BIOS shennanigans.

 

The way I see it is simple, put your expectation low and accept the keyboard situation.

 

If you have extra hardware (RAM/M.2 SSD) then by all means it is not a bad options. And if you have to buy the whole laptop ready to go, then just forget about mission critical work and do not put anything important in it.

 

What I really hate about the spec is the 10th gen processor, if you have to live with the iGPU, better off be any generation other than 10th gen, rebranded 8th gen is just a rip-off.

[BluJ]

DHL says mine arrives tomorrow. I went with the 16GB RAM and 1TB SSD. I plan on testing what can be done using throttle stop for the boost. 
 

I’ll tear it down and take some good pics of the components. See if I can find any marks of the OEM. Also gonna be doing some deep scans for sketchy software and extracting the drivers so I can reinstall easily if any hardware is uncommon. 
 

My end goals are to fix boost, fix the keyboard and find a better top monitor option. 
 

I’ve dealt with the odd Chinese laptops and have had some great machines that needed a little TLC in the past. 

[AndreiArgeanu]

On 2/5/2023 at 6:17 PM, Needfuldoer said:

Because it's full of tantalizingly cheap crap, I guess

I wouldn't call it crap. Unless you have no idea what you're buying. I bought lots of stuff of aliexpress, relays, wires, breadboards, sensors, micro controllers, screwdriver set, sata to USB adapter etc. and it's all been pretty reliable and working well plus I have 90 day buyer protection. If it doesn't arrive or it's broken/not as advertised it's very easy to get my money back. Why would I pay 2-4 times as much to have the same stuff sold to me through amazon, adafruit etc. Unless I need them quickly there's no point, Aliexpress's 15 day shipping is adequate for me.

[BluJ]

On 2/14/2023 at 10:51 AM, BluJ said:

DHL says mine arrives tomorrow. I went with the 16GB RAM and 1TB SSD. I plan on testing what can be done using throttle stop for the boost. 
 

I’ll tear it down and take some good pics of the components. See if I can find any marks of the OEM. Also gonna be doing some deep scans for sketchy software and extracting the drivers so I can reinstall easily if any hardware is uncommon. 
 

My end goals are to fix boost, fix the keyboard and find a better top monitor option. 
 

I’ve dealt with the odd Chinese laptops and have had some great machines that needed a little TLC in the past. 

Alright, have the laptop in hand. Came with Windows 11 so I extracted the drivers and am making an image of OS partition before I downgrade it. Will update with pics of the BIOS.

[BluJ]

Limited on max size, so here is an Imgur link to the bios images!

 

https://imgur.com/a/ZiUv4FF

[BluJ]

So, software is NOT the cause of the turbo issue. It’s poor VRM cooling. Using throttle stop I got it to boost to 3.6GHz while blowing air onto the VRM (just inside the little door. As long as I kept air going, it kept turboing. 
 

going to see about adding a piece of copper to the VRM the runs over to possibly a fan. Not sure yet!

[Brian McKee]

On 2/5/2023 at 1:07 PM, emosun said:

why do people even use aliexpress for anything? it's like an AI generated interpretation of what a shopping website is.

when you go to a walmart and the kids pulled all the toys off the shelves and they're just laying in the isles everywhere.... aliexpress

Cross reference things you might buy on Amazon with Aliexpress. You'll be impressed at how much is the same just at much cheaper prices.

 

Tbh Aliexpress is nothing like wish, most stuff is "legit" even if it's ewaste out of the gate. The true fun stuff is on Taobao though.

[Sp3ctre18]

  

On 2/7/2023 at 10:37 PM, ezio.cheung said:

Just found the same laptop on taobao which is around 779 USD (Pic 1), about the same as on Aliexpress.

 

However, I ask for a barebone system (the RAM and SSD it comes with are trash anyway) and the seller said its 3750 RMB (Pic 2) which is around 552 USD!

Sooo. are you getting it?

 

 

  

On 2/8/2023 at 7:12 AM, ezio.cheung said:

I have to agree, there are countless of brand less / off-brand laptop and gadget on TB and AE and I would say if you're NOT planning to take any risk at all, just don't even consider. Conflicted specs, questionable hardware, no warranty, god knows what kind of Windows install it comes with, these are the major bad things to name a few and let alone about the BIOS / firmware or any underlaying issue. 

 

However, for a "novelty item" , for the dual screen and direct pcie connection (Oculink), I could only say it is a "better deal" than most others off-brand laptops. At least, for the limited experience that I know of.

 

Also, is it possible to ask for a barebone on AE? Cause I think it is a better option to just add your own memory and storage anyway.

Yeah, though the differences in specs and hardware don't matter much if - as LTT and many of us here are thinking - even the reality isn't so bad for the price. That's a whole different deal from risking some major and costly component dying in a few months, lol.

 

 

On 2/14/2023 at 12:56 PM, Chiyawa said:

Probably (for the western world at least) most change their laptop within 3 years of usage.

Oh, really good point to think of, actually. I keep forgetting I'm probably a weirdo for stretching the use of my computers to over 7 years - really more, since I keep old ones around even after I do upgrade.

[Sp3ctre18]

  

2 hours ago, BluJ said:

So, software is NOT the cause of the turbo issue. It’s poor VRM cooling. Using throttle stop I got it to boost to 3.6GHz while blowing air onto the VRM (just inside the little door. As long as I kept air going, it kept turboing. 
 

going to see about adding a piece of copper to the VRM the runs over to possibly a fan. Not sure yet!

Thanks for sharing the info and your progress so far!! That's really awesome of you to share. Looking forward to more!

 

 

1 hour ago, Brian McKee said:

Cross reference things you might buy on Amazon with Aliexpress. You'll be impressed at how much is the same just at much cheaper prices.

 

Tbh Aliexpress is nothing like wish, most stuff is "legit" even if it's ewaste out of the gate. The true fun stuff is on Taobao though.

What is e-waste that is "legit"? haha

[Brian McKee]

5 minutes ago, Sp3ctre18 said:

  

Thanks for sharing the info and your progress so far!! That's really awesome of you to share. Looking forward to more!

 

 

What is e-waste that is "legit"? haha

As legit as anything on Amazon I guess. I don't claim to understand why people buy the things they do.

[Chiyawa]

53 minutes ago, Sp3ctre18 said:

Oh, really good point to think of, actually. I keep forgetting I'm probably a weirdo for stretching the use of my computers to over 7 years - really more, since I keep old ones around even after I do upgrade.

I see. You and me both, I guess, as I like to keep using my laptop as long as it can. Problem is once it is obsolete, it IS obsolete. Can't do much, to be honest, even though they are still fully functional. The reason I don't recommend laptop of any kind to people unless they travel frequently.

 

Make matter worse is that manufacturer soldered the CPU to the motherboard, unlike last time where you can swap the CPU out. My company still has a lot of Dell Latitude E6530 and I can replace to 3rd gen Core i7 mobile CPU for cheap (but I don't think it made much different between 3rd gen Core i5 and Core i7 mobile CPU because they only have different base speed unless you can find i7 QM variant).

[AlexTheGreatish]

13 hours ago, BluJ said:

So, software is NOT the cause of the turbo issue. It’s poor VRM cooling. Using throttle stop I got it to boost to 3.6GHz while blowing air onto the VRM (just inside the little door. As long as I kept air going, it kept turboing. 
 

going to see about adding a piece of copper to the VRM the runs over to possibly a fan. Not sure yet!

This is awesome, I can't believe the problem was actually terrible VRM cooling hahahaha

[Tristerin]

Reading alot of comments quickly - I can only surmise that my shopping on Aliexpress has been excellent.

 

Only 1 time was something not as described and Aliexpress stepped in and I got a partial refund.

 

Ive also not bought "expensive" "new gen" tech there and likely wouldnt lol.  Maybe old HEDT CPUs and mobos but nothing new, not worht that risk to me

[Required]

Its sucks that Aliexpress not send to Austria anymore.

[AdamTheLawyer]

14 hours ago, BluJ said:

So, software is NOT the cause of the turbo issue. It’s poor VRM cooling. Using throttle stop I got it to boost to 3.6GHz while blowing air onto the VRM (just inside the little door. As long as I kept air going, it kept turboing. 
 

going to see about adding a piece of copper to the VRM the runs over to possibly a fan. Not sure yet!

That's funny given how beefy the cooler seemed to be. 

 

Would it turbo with air blowing but without Throttle Stop?

[AdamTheLawyer]

16 hours ago, BluJ said:

Limited on max size, so here is an Imgur link to the bios images!

Good stuff!

 

Have you tried remapping the troublesome keys yet? I'm curious to see if the power key can be remapped (and wondering how you'd turn it on if you did).

[Bitter]

14 hours ago, BluJ said:

So, software is NOT the cause of the turbo issue. It’s poor VRM cooling. Using throttle stop I got it to boost to 3.6GHz while blowing air onto the VRM (just inside the little door. As long as I kept air going, it kept turboing. 
 

going to see about adding a piece of copper to the VRM the runs over to possibly a fan. Not sure yet!

You can buy bare heat pipes in flat style and add heat sinks to them with thermal epoxy or solder to bring heat around to where you need it. I bet you can make something that'll work with some creativity.

[BluJ]

38 minutes ago, AdamTheLawyer said:

That's funny given how beefy the cooler seemed to be. 

 

Would it turbo with air blowing but without Throttle Stop?

It would turbo but almost instantly throw the “VR Thermal”. There is NOTHING on the VRMs. Just the bare chips. I have some little RiPi heat sinks coming and some thermal pads. I’m thinking I may try to use a sheet of copper bent to the profile of the VRMs and chokes and have the end run up to the metal casing of the fan and thermal paste that. Still not perfect but it should allow more thermal mass and possibly help with getting the heat out. 
 

thought about a heat pup but I don’t know where I would take the heat to. Only thing close it the CPU itself and it’s dual heat pipes. 
 

the thermals on the CPU were great. Never breaking 70c. 

[BluJ]

1 hour ago, AlexTheGreatish said:

This is awesome, I can't believe the problem was actually terrible VRM cooling hahahaha

I think with a little love it can be made much better. Hope to get it going well enough to use as a daily driver. The build actually feels pretty solid for its price. 

[BluJ]

41 minutes ago, AdamTheLawyer said:

Good stuff!

 

Have you tried remapping the troublesome keys yet? I'm curious to see if the power key can be remapped (and wondering how you'd turn it on if you did).

I don’t think the power key can be moved. But it also only reacts to a hold and not a regular press. Will look into the delete>shift key though. Should be able to map that in Windows easily enough. 

[AdamTheLawyer]

One of the pictures on the AliExpress page shows a more sensible keyboard with a fifth row...

 

 

 

Which would have been nice.

 

But I'm pretty sure that's actually just an Asus Zenbook Duo. Based on exhaustive Internet research. And the fact that it says "Asus Zenbook" above the keyboard.

 

Oh, well.

 

 

 

[AdamTheLawyer]

You could probably put a row of function keys along the bottom edge of the bottom screen.

[ezio.cheung]

4 hours ago, BluJ said:

I think with a little love it can be made much better. Hope to get it going well enough to use as a daily driver. The build actually feels pretty solid for its price. 

Thank you for your update on the laptop.

 

Since I am very welling to DIY just for the VRM cooling, I am considering buy this now.

 

BTW, is one of the M.2 slot really support NVMe?

[Sp3ctre18]

16 hours ago, Chiyawa said:

I see. You and me both, I guess, as I like to keep using my laptop as long as it can. Problem is once it is obsolete, it IS obsolete. Can't do much, to be honest, even though they are still fully functional. The reason I don't recommend laptop of any kind to people unless they travel frequently.

Yeah, if you can't replace parts, just have to accept it'll get relegated to less intensive tasks. I have this XP-era HP laptop with fairly lightweight Linux that's especially nice to have to keep some notes or online research available while I'm doing hardware work on main PCs.