AIO vs Air Cooler for CPU. Are the risks worth it?

[Guidosaurus-Rex]

Howdy forum.  My friend recently upgraded his CPU, GPU, RAM and PSU.  As a result of this beefy new hardware, he claims he can get 1 hour of gaming in Warhammer 40k Darktide/Cyberpunk 2077/ Total War Warhammer III at max settings before the CPU overheats and his computer shuts down.  The CPU is a Ryzen 5 5600 (not sure if 5600G/X/base.  He's a cheap bastard so whichever was cheaper/on offer at Microcenter.)  The GPU is a an RTX 3060 (Again he's a cheap bastard so whatever Black Friday offer Microcenter had is what he probably went with.)  Using the Ryzen App(?) at idle he was running at 44C-52C with the stock CPU cooler.  Under load while gaming the CPU was at 77C-82C.  After and hour or so the machine would shutdown because he claims it would hit 95C. 

My first suggestion was to replace the stock cooler with an aftermarket.  Be quiet, Noctua, whatever.  Something other than the stock cooler would be sufficient.  

I even suggested an AIO water cooler.  Something small to fit his case like a 120mm AIO would be fine.  He immediately snapped back and said, "No, the risk of a water leak is too great."  Now I remember hearing that water cooling your PC with an AIO was riskier and more expensive than just air cooling.  I also remember hearing if you were willing to risk a leak, it was better to build your own custom loop rather than trusting a Chinese MFG to build an decent AIO that wouldn't leak.  

Now a quick .000000000001 second google search later I found this article from PC Part Guide which explains while yes, anytime you introduce water to a system there's always the potential it can leak.  However, my friend seems to think that a 0.015% failure rate means that's it not a matter of IF the AIO will leak.  It's just a matter of when.  Even then, the 0.015% failure rate includes the pump, rad and tubing.  

I went on to explain that if anything is going to fail on an AIO it's the pump.  Unless he's doing something to the tubing or the rad the odds of a leak happening are so few and far between.  He'd heard enough.  To him, no matter how unlikely, the chance of water leak damaging the CPU, GPU, PSU, MOBO, RAM, ETC was too great and would rather opt for and air cooled heat sink.  

 

What are your thoughts?  I know, Jayz2Cents, LTT, and Gamers Nexus have said the performance difference between water cooling or air cooling is negligible at this point.  It real boils down to personal preference and budget more than anything.  Agree?  Disagree?  Agree to a degree?  Can neither confirm or deny?  

 

 

 

 

[MonkeyBomb]

Of course, there is always a chance of it leaking, if your friend isn't comfortable with the odds of getting a leak there are hundreds of decent air coolers on the market.

 

If I wasn't going for some "show" on my current build, I'd have gone air cooling.  For the simple fact that when the fan dies, I have plenty of replacements on hand, as for a water cooler I'd have to go buy a whole new kit if the pump dies.

[Applefreak]

12 minutes ago, Guidosaurus-Rex said:

Howdy forum.  My friend recently upgraded his CPU, GPU, RAM and PSU.  As a result of this beefy new hardware, he claims he can get 1 hour of gaming in Warhammer 40k Darktide/Cyberpunk 2077/ Total War Warhammer III at max settings before the CPU overheats and his computer shuts down.  The CPU is a Ryzen 5 5600 (not sure if 5600G/X/base.  He's a cheap bastard so whichever was cheaper/on offer at Microcenter.)  The GPU is a an RTX 3060 (Again he's a cheap bastard so whatever Black Friday offer Microcenter had is what he probably went with.)  Using the Ryzen App(?) at idle he was running at 44C-52C with the stock CPU cooler.  Under load while gaming the CPU was at 77C-82C.  After and hour or so the machine would shutdown because he claims it would hit 95C. 

My first suggestion was to replace the stock cooler with an aftermarket.  Be quiet, Noctua, whatever.  Something other than the stock cooler would be sufficient.  

I even suggested an AIO water cooler.  Something small to fit his case like a 120mm AIO would be fine.  He immediately snapped back and said, "No, the risk of a water leak is too great."  Now I remember hearing that water cooling your PC with an AIO was riskier and more expensive than just air cooling.  I also remember hearing if you were willing to risk a leak, it was better to build your own custom loop rather than trusting a Chinese MFG to build an decent AIO that wouldn't leak.  

Now a quick .000000000001 second google search later I found this article from PC Part Guide which explains while yes, anytime you introduce water to a system there's always the potential it can leak.  However, my friend seems to think that a 0.015% failure rate means that's it not a matter of IF the AIO will leak.  It's just a matter of when.  Even then, the 0.015% failure rate includes the pump, rad and tubing.  

I went on to explain that if anything is going to fail on an AIO it's the pump.  Unless he's doing something to the tubing or the rad the odds of a leak happening are so few and far between.  He'd heard enough.  To him, no matter how unlikely, the chance of water leak damaging the CPU, GPU, PSU, MOBO, RAM, ETC was too great and would rather opt for and air cooled heat sink.  

 

What are your thoughts?  I know, Jayz2Cents, LTT, and Gamers Nexus have said the performance difference between water cooling or air cooling is negligible at this point.  It real boils down to personal preference and budget more than anything.  Agree?  Disagree?  Agree to a degree?  Can neither confirm or deny?  

 

 

 

 

Let's cut this short. The stock AMD heatsink is garbage, same as Intel. I have a 5600 (regular one not G) and my 14 year old original Noctua NH-U12P handles it just fine for hours. The 5600 is a fairly low power CPU in comparison so you can get by with a cheap or simple AIO as well. Any of the rebranded Asetek units should be fine and not leak. 

It can happen but I would attribute that more to user error than to mechanical failure. If you open the box and it is already leaking, you've got a bad part, return it. It is not likely to leak later on. Go with air if you want to be super safe. For reference, my 5600 is idling at 45C at the moment and in stress tests around 74C and in gaming between 65C and 72C. If your friend is cheap, get a used Noctua cooler like mine or a bigger one and the official AM4 upgrade kit and problem solved.

[mMontana]

Without overclocking and with a decent case, unless some big beefy radiators in disguised named Ryzen 7xxxX and Intel 12900K (or 13000K, add F or S as you wish), air cooling is IMVHO perfectly fine.

Using water cooler will give bigger termal inertia (allowing to smoothen a bit more heat spikes) and can allow lower noise (with at least 240mm radiator), however when the power draw (and compute spike) will stop, will take more time to cooldown a water cooled system than a air cooled one.

So better CPU cooling system? Hell yeah. But it's still useless if the case have not enough airflow, maybe a bit of positive pressure and it's located in a way that allow heat transfer from inside the case to outside. Also better thermal paste will allow better heat transfer, but unless is crappier than legit, it won't be a gamechanger.

Leak risk? I cannot tell you "practical zero", I won't use AIO mostly because they need greater maintenance than air coolers, and they will "wear" more in time the cooling capabilities. A tower cooler can be repasted every 18-24 months and dusted off every 6. And will keep its performance near 100% (unless the PC is into a woodcraft lab)

 

Last but not least: there are some  differences in TDP for the different 5600 flavah.

5600G goes from 45 to 65

5600 should be 65W

5600X can hit a bit higher than 65W.

 

So even a CoolerMaster 212Evo2 and a nice set of fans can help 5600G and 5600 to sweat a lot less; with 5600X something heftier is advisable but not stricly necessary. I mean.. a Noctua Redux might be a less noisy option ;)

[rockyroller]

My first attempt was an AIO by MSI. 6 to 8 months later and then I was getting CPU overheating shutdowns, 8 months later I found out some of the brand had been filled coolant that left fragments in the block preventing flow. I read how MSI were being dicks about RTB saying nothing was wrong, then only some batchs, stc

 

what I can say 100% is an old W/C gfx card and that AIO in a box I have never leaked. Maybe a cheap brand or a DIY kit and not RTFM might?

 

So I stripped off the AIO, put the rest in a box to take apart when I get bored, but kept RGB lighting fans in my case and got an nice looking ARGB Air Cooling system.

 

All I'm going to say is really check once then twice that whatever system you get, AIO or AC that it was made to cool your CPU, or possible upgrade CPU

 

[Zando_]

30 minutes ago, Guidosaurus-Rex said:

After and hour or so the machine would shutdown because he claims it would hit 95C. 

5600 boosts to 95C, wouldn't shut down unless it went a good bit above that. Sure it's not him cheaping out on PSU or something and that tripping? I don't see a model mentioned in the OP. 

 

For a new cooler, just get a decent air tower. 120mm AIO is almost never worth it. 

[PDifolco]

Really a system with a 5600 don't need much cooling, any $30ish aircooler will do and allow your friend to play all night long

AIOs are $60 to $300, decent (that is 240mm+) not overpriced ones $100 to $150, absolutely overkill in this case

[WoodenMarker]

What case is being used and how is the case airflow setup? What rpm is the CPU cooler fan at? The stock cooler should be fine for the 5600.

Are motherboard settings at default?

[8tg]

If it’s progressively getting hotter and hotter over such a long period of time the issue is likely overall system airflow as the internal air isn’t going anywhere.

That will happen with any cooler if there’s no other airflow besides the cpu cooler, even massive ones like the NH D15 will do this if they can’t get enough air in and out of the system and end up just circulating increasingly warm case air.

I would look into better case airflow first.

Air vs water at this point comes down to thermal mass more than anything, there’s some stuff you can’t cool well on air because even the largest air coolers don’t have enough thermal mass to handle the temperature spikes of something like an 11900k, while water coolers like a 360mm aio are simply larger with much more thermal mass and can soak up the heat better even if they don’t really provide much better temperatures.

Tldr air vs water really only comes into play with very high end, power hungry components. For a 5600x/g whatever you don’t need to really concern yourself with that and it comes more down to preference.

 

[Blue4130]

1 hour ago, Guidosaurus-Rex said:

What are your thoughts? 

Without touching what I think he should do, I will address what I would do if I was in your place.

 

I would let him have his reasons without being a dick about it. It's not worth the friction. If he doesn't want to risk an AIO, so be it. There are plenty of good air coolers that will keep him cool. It's his system and his choice, not yours.

[Coaxialgamer]

I've had an AIO in my system for years and have had no issues despite the lack of maintenance and high running time. Many people have in fact.

Sure, leaks are a possibility, but the odds of it are remote, and any potential leak is unlikely to be very large, even if alarming.

Air coolers are safer in that way, but it's not like large air coolers aren't heavy either, bending the board slightly.

And admittedly, they do last longer and can be quieter.

 

As an aside, the stock ryzen heatsink should be perfectly capable of cooling the CPU it was bundled with. Last I checked, his system shoudn't be shutting down at 95C either. there might be an issue beyond the heatsink is all I'm saying.

[OhioYJ]

2 hours ago, Guidosaurus-Rex said:

I even suggested an AIO water cooler.  Something small to fit his case like a 120mm AIO would be fine.  He immediately snapped back and said, "No, the risk of a water leak is too great."

There is no reason to try and convince him. If he's not comfortable with, that's fine. Air cooling is fine.

 

Here's my pile of "junk" parts from an AIO leak... It's been a long time ago now, IIRC, that was a 3570k build, that actually OC really well. I replaced it with a 4690k that I definitely lost the silicone lottery on. It didn't OC hardly at all. My AIO was right at a year old when it let loose in the system. I tried cleaning the parts, didn't help.

 

[freeagent]

^^

 

That sucks. RIP.

 

I manhandled my AIO, I fit it into spots that it shouldn't have been in, no real problems. It was loud though, and the coolant did permeate making it useless after a few years.

[andrewmp6]

Deepcool has some nice tower air coolers to look at.I have the as500 plus on a ryzen 7900x it idles at 40c and highest i seen was 80c under a full cpu aida64.Also look at thermalright they make some big tower coolers and are kinda cheap for the specs.

[Guidosaurus-Rex]

15 hours ago, MonkeyBomb said:

Of course, there is always a chance of it leaking, if your friend isn't comfortable with the odds of getting a leak there are hundreds of decent air coolers on the market.

 

If I wasn't going for some "show" on my current build, I'd have gone air cooling.  For the simple fact that when the fan dies, I have plenty of replacements on hand, as for a water cooler I'd have to go buy a whole new kit if the pump dies.

This was my point exactly.  The AIO has water in it.  So there's a chance it could leak.  However, the odds of it leaking, are very low.  I told him he could go either way.  Air or water it does not matter in this day an age from a performance perspective.  Yes, a bigger rad might do a better job than an air cooler at maintaining lower temps up front but, in the long run the performance difference is negligible.  Either or would be fine.  Maintenance, parts, aside.  

[Guidosaurus-Rex]

15 hours ago, Applefreak said:

Let's cut this short. The stock AMD heatsink is garbage, same as Intel. I have a 5600 (regular one not G) and my 14 year old original Noctua NH-U12P handles it just fine for hours. The 5600 is a fairly low power CPU in comparison so you can get by with a cheap or simple AIO as well. Any of the rebranded Asetek units should be fine and not leak. 

It can happen but I would attribute that more to user error than to mechanical failure. If you open the box and it is already leaking, you've got a bad part, return it. It is not likely to leak later on. Go with air if you want to be super safe. For reference, my 5600 is idling at 45C at the moment and in stress tests around 74C and in gaming between 65C and 72C. If your friend is cheap, get a used Noctua cooler like mine or a bigger one and the official AM4 upgrade kit and problem solved.

Years ago I built a coworker a budget PC with and AMD stock cooler.  Eventually I got a call from him and he complained that it was very loud.  I cranked down the fan speed in the bios and never heard from him after.  I think that was more the MOBO than the stock heat sink that was responsible but, for his typical use case it worked well.

My old pc I used a Noctua D15. Love it.  Still have it.  I was able to overclock my old Intel I7 (LGA 2011 I think???  I'm sure that wrong it was 7-8 years ago) CPU from stock 3.4Ghz to 4.7Ghz easily.  Only when I pushed to 4.9Ghz did it become unstable. 

I was just watching GN's video about top CPU coolers for 21' and Steve mentioned Asetek and their litigious pursuit of their competitors regarding their pump designs, versus engineering a better product.

That was my point to him.  More moving parts = more chance/opportunity for failure.  If there's water in the system, then there's also a chance for a leak.  I didn't say it was impossible.  Only that's it's not probable.  First generation AIO, sure maybe a higher probability than today's models/MFG processes.  He was so adamant that a leak was not a matter of IF but, WHEN.  Which is simply not true.  If anything is likely to fail it's the pump.  So the water just sits there and eventually your temps begin to increase.  I'm not even sure the Asrock MOBO recycled from this pre-built he got from a SI has a PWM connector on the board.   My friend eventually showed me a really nice Cooler Master MA620M and Hyper 212 Evo and your aforementioned Noctua NH-U12P in black.  All of which I agreed are great options.  

What concerns me is, at some point, in order to "aid" in cooling, he pulled both side panels off the case.  We're dealing with a chimp brain so I can only surmise that he did this to double check if all the fans were working.  Turns out 1 of the 120mm in the front was not connected which he quickly fixed.  However, I don't think he replaced the panels and continued to game until the computer shutoff????  

He mentioned he was monitoring the temp with the Ryzen app.  Like you say it shouldn't shut off at 95C.

I'm really curious to see how this plays out.  

[Blue4130]

11 minutes ago, Guidosaurus-Rex said:

.  

What concerns me is, at some point, in order to "aid" in cooling, he pulled both side panels off the case.  We're dealing with a chimp brain so I can only surmise that he did this to double check if all the fans were working.  Turns out 1 of the 120mm in the front was not connected which he quickly fixed.  However, I don't think he replaced the panels and continued to game until the computer shutoff????  

He mentioned he was monitoring the temp with the Ryzen app.  Like you say it shouldn't shut off at 95C.

I'm really curious to see how this plays out.  

What's wrong with that? Other than a danger to pets, removing side panels is a fine way to aid cooling if you have poor case airflow. 

[freeagent]

IMO the best air cooler on the market right now is Thermalright FC140, and that is what I would buy.

 

In fact, I did... twice

[Guidosaurus-Rex]

15 hours ago, mMontana said:

Without overclocking and with a decent case, unless some big beefy radiators in disguised named Ryzen 7xxxX and Intel 12900K (or 13000K, add F or S as you wish), air cooling is IMVHO perfectly fine.

Using water cooler will give bigger termal inertia (allowing to smoothen a bit more heat spikes) and can allow lower noise (with at least 240mm radiator), however when the power draw (and compute spike) will stop, will take more time to cooldown a water cooled system than a air cooled one.

So better CPU cooling system? Hell yeah. But it's still useless if the case have not enough airflow, maybe a bit of positive pressure and it's located in a way that allow heat transfer from inside the case to outside. Also better thermal paste will allow better heat transfer, but unless is crappier than legit, it won't be a gamechanger.

Leak risk? I cannot tell you "practical zero", I won't use AIO mostly because they need greater maintenance than air coolers, and they will "wear" more in time the cooling capabilities. A tower cooler can be repasted every 18-24 months and dusted off every 6. And will keep its performance near 100% (unless the PC is into a woodcraft lab)

 

Last but not least: there are some  differences in TDP for the different 5600 flavah.

5600G goes from 45 to 65

5600 should be 65W

5600X can hit a bit higher than 65W.

 

So even a CoolerMaster 212Evo2 and a nice set of fans can help 5600G and 5600 to sweat a lot less; with 5600X something heftier is advisable but not stricly necessary. I mean.. a Noctua Redux might be a less noisy option

He's def not overclocking.  The case is not decent.  It has to be an OEM from an SI.  It's 7-8 years old with 3 x 120mm setup with 2 intake up front and 1 exhaust in the back.  I did notice when we we're installing the new PSU that it was a Thermaltake 120mm.  For the 2 up front I have no idea.  Def a mid-tower with an MATX MOBO.  I don't think airflow is great but, I don't think it's terrible either.  Also not better with both the side panels off.  

As for risk of leak?  Correct.  0% chance is a statistic impossibility.  Evidence below.  Such instances are in the OVERWHELMING MINORITY.  I think he believes the ol' PC wives tale that AIOs are not a good investment and that all water cooling systems, loops, AIOs.  I know he thinks this because I thought the same when they first hit the market.  I heard the horrors stories and decided it was not worth the risk.  

Cooler master makes good stuff.  I have their ML360 AIO.  Love it.  Super quiet.  Am I loosing sleep bc it might leak.  No.  Is that a real concern?  Yes.  That's all I said.  It's possible not probable.  

 

[Guidosaurus-Rex]

19 hours ago, rockyroller said:

My first attempt was an AIO by MSI. 6 to 8 months later and then I was getting CPU overheating shutdowns, 8 months later I found out some of the brand had been filled coolant that left fragments in the block preventing flow. I read how MSI were being dicks about RTB saying nothing was wrong, then only some batchs, stc

 

what I can say 100% is an old W/C gfx card and that AIO in a box I have never leaked. Maybe a cheap brand or a DIY kit and not RTFM might?

 

So I stripped off the AIO, put the rest in a box to take apart when I get bored, but kept RGB lighting fans in my case and got an nice looking ARGB Air Cooling system.

 

All I'm going to say is really check once then twice that whatever system you get, AIO or AC that it was made to cool your CPU, or possible upgrade CPU

 

Damn that's a shame.  I have an MSI MOBO and it's working great.  Never going ASUS again.  I agree.  Trust but, verify.  

[Guidosaurus-Rex]

19 hours ago, MonkeyBomb said:

Of course, there is always a chance of it leaking, if your friend isn't comfortable with the odds of getting a leak there are hundreds of decent air coolers on the market.

 

If I wasn't going for some "show" on my current build, I'd have gone air cooling.  For the simple fact that when the fan dies, I have plenty of replacements on hand, as for a water cooler I'd have to go buy a whole new kit if the pump dies.

Yes, there is a chance.  However, the chances are low enough and a 3-6 year warranty is pretty generous IMO, it's worthwhile purchase. 

For me, building a custom loop is too much work and requires a lot of up front time and labor.  And if I have to bend the tubes myself, I  think my chances of springing a leak increase significantly.  

[Guidosaurus-Rex]

19 hours ago, Zando_ said:

5600 boosts to 95C, wouldn't shut down unless it went a good bit above that. Sure it's not him cheaping out on PSU or something and that tripping? I don't see a model mentioned in the OP. 

 

For a new cooler, just get a decent air tower. 120mm AIO is almost never worth it. 

Not sure what model 5600 he got.  Def the cheapest one knowing him. 

I think it was the PSU.  He had a 650W in there before.  Adding in the 3060 most likely stretched it beyond it's limits.  Especially if he was maxing out gfx settings in Darktide.  I was having a similar issue with my old GTX 1080 when I'd max out Warhammer 40k Battlefleet Gothic.  Computer would just restart.  No crash report from the game.  Nothing in the windows logs about what happened.  Nothing.  My PSU was 1000W and should have been able to handle.  Got a new 850W with my 3080TI and have not had that issue since.  

After our "discussion" he will most likely go with AIR for CPU cooler.  He's scared of the alternatives.  

 

[Guidosaurus-Rex]

20 hours ago, PDifolco said:

Really a system with a 5600 don't need much cooling, any $30ish aircooler will do and allow your friend to play all night long

AIOs are $60 to $300, decent (that is 240mm+) not overpriced ones $100 to $150, absolutely overkill in this case

I agreed.  Any aftermarket cooler would do better than the stock cooler.  Definitely much quieter to.  Here's the kicker.  The Cooler Master MA620M he showed me was $120.  The NZXT Kraken I showed him is only $100.  This OEM case did not have room for a 240mm rad.  Maybe up front but, I'd have to look lot closer at the case to see where it would mount.  Not enough room on the back.  No vent on top or any of the sides.  

[Guidosaurus-Rex]

20 hours ago, WoodenMarker said:

What case is being used and how is the case airflow setup? What rpm is the CPU cooler fan at? The stock cooler should be fine for the 5600.

Are motherboard settings at default?

Case is OEM from SI.  Looks nice.  2 x 120mm for intake up front.  1 x 120mm exhaust in the back.  I did not get a look at the bios to see what RPM the stock cooler was running at.  MOBO settings are most likely default.  

[Guidosaurus-Rex]

20 hours ago, 8tg said:

If it’s progressively getting hotter and hotter over such a long period of time the issue is likely overall system airflow as the internal air isn’t going anywhere.

That will happen with any cooler if there’s no other airflow besides the cpu cooler, even massive ones like the NH D15 will do this if they can’t get enough air in and out of the system and end up just circulating increasingly warm case air.

I would look into better case airflow first.

Air vs water at this point comes down to thermal mass more than anything, there’s some stuff you can’t cool well on air because even the largest air coolers don’t have enough thermal mass to handle the temperature spikes of something like an 11900k, while water coolers like a 360mm aio are simply larger with much more thermal mass and can soak up the heat better even if they don’t really provide much better temperatures.

Tldr air vs water really only comes into play with very high end, power hungry components. For a 5600x/g whatever you don’t need to really concern yourself with that and it comes more down to preference.

 

We're dealing with a chimp brain here.  I don't think he's reading the temp right.  Or maybe the Ryzen app is inaccurate. It looks like the air is pulled in from vents near the front of the case.  There's no openings on any of the side panels for any ambient air to pass through.  Intake comes from slots on the sides of the front panel of the case if memory serves.  Someone else mentioned the safety would not trigger until a few more degrees beyond 95C.  

The reason I think it was restarting w/o warning was his PSU.  It's old and could not handle the demand of the new GPU & CPU.  He bumped that up from 650W to 850W so he shouldn't have any random restarts.  The game is new and on PC there's always some glitches.  Not sure if anyone else is experiencing something like that with Darktide.  

He's on the 2nd floor.  Maybe his wife likes the thermostat set at 74F.  That case is def not great for thermals.  

I dunno what the temps are like on a 11900k so if water cooling would be better I'll take your word on that.  Although, both LTT, GN, and JayzTwoCents have said thermal performance on both if your operating with a 360mm rad and D15 Noctua.  If price is not any option that you can get the best of AIR or AIO and they'll both perform just as well.  Comes down to your wallet and preference as you say.