Pc wheas at 3800mt/s and im not sure where i can improve

[Shooterdude34]

So as the title says, i have a 2x8 gb kit of Vengeance 3000mt/s c16-20-20-38 (micron e die). for a bit ive had it at 3600 c18-22-22-42, but i wanted to push it further.

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System - 

5800x3d

strix b550-f gaming

gigabyte gaming 8gb oc 3070ti

evga 850 watt

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Original 3600 settings 

- soc 1.15v

- vddg ccd .95v

- vddg iod 1.05v

- dram 1.35v

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With this push to 3800mt/s i kept same timings

-dram 1.45v

-upped soc all the way to 1.25v in .5v increments (whea every time)

- upped iod to 1.2 in .5v increments (still wheas with soc 1.2)

- vddp up to .95v (.9 at 3600)

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so far all the overclocking help ive been getting in the discord server im in is slightly stumped. wondering if any help could be gained here

[RONOTHAN##]

Just now, Shooterdude34 said:

-upped soc all the way to 1.25v in .5v increments (whea every time)

Yeah, that's way too high for daily use, you want to stay below 1.2V SOC for the health of the CPU. A lot of chips don't really scale past 1.15V anyway. 

 

Maybe try messing with the 1.8V rail to see if that helps. For daily stability it's not helped any of the Ryzen CPUs I've tested it with, but it does help with performance scaling past 1900MHz (max FCLK on the chips I've used). In my testing it scales all the way up to 2.35V on that rail (the max value available on the X570 Master I run), even at ambient, though for a daily setup I wouldn't want to go past 2V on that rail. 

 

TBH it just sounds like you lost the silicon lottery with that chip. I wouldn't really think about it too much, the 5800X3D just don't really care about memory settings or FCLK values for anything that you'd want a 5800X3D for, so putting this amount of effort to get 3800MT/s stable on that chip is just not worth it. Dial it back to 3733MT/s or 3666MT/s to see if that works, but don't put too much effort into getting them to work. 

[WereCat]

Don't use SOC higher than 1.2V... you shouldn't even need to go as high as 1.2V that's already rather too high. Forcing voltages makes no sense if your timings are bad and unstable.

 

VDDG and VDDP always have to be lower than the SOC Voltage.

 

This is too little information to go on.. we don't know your timings and memory ICs. If you're getting WHEA Blue Screen it's likely DRAM instability, if you're getting WHEA errors in HWinfo it's likely Infinity Fabric instability and DRAM.

[Shooterdude34]

3 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

Yeah, that's way too high for daily use, you want to stay below 1.2V SOC for the health of the CPU. A lot of chips don't really scale past 1.15V anyway. 

 

Maybe try messing with the 1.8V rail to see if that helps. For daily stability it's not helped any of the Ryzen CPUs I've tested it with, but it does help with performance scaling past 1900MHz (max FCLK on the chips I've used). In my testing it scales all the way up to 2.35V on that rail (the max value available on the X570 Master I run), even at ambient, though for a daily setup I wouldn't want to go past 2V on that rail. 

 

TBH it just sounds like you lost the silicon lottery with that chip. I wouldn't really think about it too much, the 5800X3D just don't really care about memory settings or FCLK values for anything that you'd want a 5800X3D for, so putting this amount of effort to get 3800MT/s stable on that chip is just not worth it. Dial it back to 3733MT/s or 3666MT/s to see if that works, but don't put too much effort into getting them to work. 

understood, i went back to 1.15v soc for my 3600 profile, might just stick with 3600. would the extra dram voltage help tighten timings at all (if i will gain much from that)

 

[Shooterdude34]

Just now, WereCat said:

Don't use SOC higher than 1.2V... you shouldn't even need to go as high as 1.2V that's already rather too high. Forcing voltages makes no sense if your timings are bad and unstable.

 

VDDG and VDDP always have to be lower than the SOC Voltage.

 

This is too little information to go on.. we don't know your timings and memory ICs. If you're getting WHEA Blue Screen it's likely DRAM instability, if you're getting WHEA errors in HWinfo it's likely Infinity Fabric instability and DRAM.

i said it was micron e die. soc is back to 1.15 v. 3600 18-22-22-42 is stable for right now, just seeing if i can push further and also want to learn some more. 

[WereCat]

2 minutes ago, Shooterdude34 said:

i said it was micron e die. soc is back to 1.15 v. 3600 18-22-22-42 is stable for right now, just seeing if i can push further and also want to learn some more. 

Missed the Micron E-die mention. Primary timings are not enough, what are your secondaries and tertiaries? Get something like ZenTimings and post a screenshot.

[Shooterdude34]

[Shooterdude34]

Just now, WereCat said:

Missed the Micron E-die mention. Primary timings are not enough, what are your secondaries and tertiaries? Get something like ZenTimings and post a screenshot.

here, i realized i couldve included this sc in my earlier post

 

[Shooterdude34]

trrds, trrdl, and tfaw have been modified to 8-8-24 from the stock 7-10-32

[WereCat]

14 minutes ago, Shooterdude34 said:

Those are rather loose timings for E-die, shouldn't be a problem from DRAM side so it's either your memory controller on CPU having a hard time or the IF is just unstable at 1900MHz if you're trying to push for 3800MT/s.

 

Try to manually set VTTDDR to half of your DRAM voltage.

Set your VPP_MEM to 2.52V.

Disable ECC in the BIOS (helps with memory training a bit even if you don't have ECC memory but skips the ECC check at startup).

 

You can bump up VDDP and VDDG, I am at 0.925V VDDP and 0.975VDDG in BIOS for 3800/1900.

 

These are not my final timings yet but this is 100% stable for me (I run 4x16GB Micron E-die with Dual Rank sticks).

 

 

I've manually set primaries, tRC, tRRDS, tRRDL, tFAW, tRFC as those are the most important, rest is set automatically. I know I can set tRDWR to 10 from 18 and be stable but I haven't had much time lately with testing.

 

I've been 100% stable with lower VDDG and VDDP while DRAM testing but was getting WHEA error in HWinfo from instabilities in Infinity Fabric so I had to bump them up to what I said above.

 

You likely have Single Rank sticks in which case you should be able to set tRRDS, tRRDL to 4 and tFAW to 16.

 

EDIT:

 

and I hope you have some RAM testing tool to test RAM stability otherwise don't even bother overclocking if you don't want to corrupt all your data

[Shooterdude34]

7 minutes ago, WereCat said:

Those are rather loose timings for E-die, shouldn't be a problem from DRAM side so it's either your memory controller on CPU having a hard time or the IF is just unstable at 1900MHz if you're trying to push for 3800MT/s.

 

Try to manually set VTTDDR to half of your DRAM voltage.

Set your VPP_MEM to 2.52V.

Disable ECC in the BIOS (helps with memory training a bit even if you don't have ECC memory but skips the ECC check at startup).

 

You can bump up VDDP and VDDG, I am at 0.925V VDDP and 0.975VDDG in BIOS for 3800/1900.

 

These are not my final timings yet but this is 100% stable for me (I run 4x16GB Micron E-die with Dual Rank sticks).

 

 

I've manually set primaries, tRC, tRRDS, tRRDL, tFAW, tRFC as those are the most important, rest is set automatically. I know I can set tRDWR to 10 from 18 and be stable but I haven't had much time lately with testing.

 

I've been 100% stable with lower VDDG and VDDP while DRAM testing but was getting WHEA error in HWinfo from instabilities in Infinity Fabric so I had to bump them up to what I said above.

 

You likely have Single Rank sticks in which case you should be able to set tRRDS, tRRDL to 4 and tFAW to 16.

Awesome, thanks for this! I will have to try this tomorrow, but im glad for the detail. And for reference this was a 2x8 gb 3000mt c16 kit (m8e i think, ver 3.31)

[WereCat]

Just now, Shooterdude34 said:

Awesome, thanks for this! I will have to try this tomorrow, but im glad for the detail. And for reference this was a 2x8 gb 3000mt c16 kit (m8e i think, ver 3.31)

I need to find the box for a version but mine are two kits of 2x16GB 3200CL16.

[Shooterdude34]

8 hours ago, WereCat said:

Those are rather loose timings for E-die, shouldn't be a problem from DRAM side so it's either your memory controller on CPU having a hard time or the IF is just unstable at 1900MHz if you're trying to push for 3800MT/s.

 

Try to manually set VTTDDR to half of your DRAM voltage.

Set your VPP_MEM to 2.52V.

Disable ECC in the BIOS (helps with memory training a bit even if you don't have ECC memory but skips the ECC check at startup).

 

You can bump up VDDP and VDDG, I am at 0.925V VDDP and 0.975VDDG in BIOS for 3800/1900.

 

These are not my final timings yet but this is 100% stable for me (I run 4x16GB Micron E-die with Dual Rank sticks).

 

 

I've manually set primaries, tRC, tRRDS, tRRDL, tFAW, tRFC as those are the most important, rest is set automatically. I know I can set tRDWR to 10 from 18 and be stable but I haven't had much time lately with testing.

 

I've been 100% stable with lower VDDG and VDDP while DRAM testing but was getting WHEA error in HWinfo from instabilities in Infinity Fabric so I had to bump them up to what I said above.

 

You likely have Single Rank sticks in which case you should be able to set tRRDS, tRRDL to 4 and tFAW to 16.

 

EDIT:

 

and I hope you have some RAM testing tool to test RAM stability otherwise don't even bother overclocking if you don't want to corrupt all your data

Also yes i usually to tm5 pcbdestroyer for an hour, though if i get 3800 going id do occt overnight