Microsoft is Forcing me to Buy MacBooks - Windows Modern Standby

[Neroon]

24 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

 I gave one argument, the next was a supporting example. If you're not going to pay attention to the conversation, then there is no reason for me to continue having this discussion with you.

I understand your argument perfectly well It doesn't seem to be sinking in that I am not against fixing the issue brought up in the video. 

 

Um no. you're not getting it. Re-read what I said.

 

Yeah, there is no similarity in this example. I'm losing hope for you.

 

Then I guess its not an option for you then... moving on.

 

Look you're not getting the point of my original comment and it seems to me that you want to argue with me specifically for some reason over this. Lets move on.

Your original comment was this:

  

On 12/4/2022 at 12:44 AM, SansVarnic said:

Here's a really useful suggestion, there is this feature called 'shut down'. I have never had a battery drain problem using this. <mind blown>

I guess I completely just misunderstood that, just like your follow up. My English must be so bad that I interpreted this as you meaning that shutting down your pc is the solution, whereas the counter argument is that people don't want to shut it down because they want instantly resume what they were doing.

Oh and don't worry, you're not special, you were just the first one that seems to ignore the problem, which I responded to.

 

But hey, by all means keep believing what you believe, don't let no one take away your believes.

 

  

3 hours ago, LloydLynx said:

The thing where tabs get reopened if you computers power gets cut? Yeah I see how that would be useful if you laptop dies in your bag. 

Forgot to respond to this. I think this is a basic feature on all browsers these days. Whenever I open my browser, it opens my old tabs. That's basically the same thing, because you want to go back to where you were left off. For many of us this isn't a big deal, I know I don't really mind it, hence I fully shut off my laptop, but I can imagine when you work on a lot of things, that you want these to stay around for the next day. Sans obviously does not give a crap about any of that, nor does he seem to think that anyone else should use it, because shutting down your pc is just the king of it all, and everyone else is wrong.

[LloydLynx]

1 hour ago, Neroon said:

Sans obviously does not give a crap about any of that, nor does he seem to think that anyone else should use it, because shutting down your pc is just the king of it all, and everyone else is wrong.

He should take a look at HaikuOS, lol. 

[LloydLynx]

1 hour ago, Neroon said:

I think this is a basic feature on all browsers these days. Whenever I open my browser, it opens my old tabs.

Now that you say what it is, I have heard about it before. I never thought it would be the default though. 

[hishnash]

5 hours ago, xBIGREDDx said:

there's a concept called "race to sleep" where you actually use less power by using the highest power mode to get work done faster

That depends a lot on the hardware you are using. If the perfomance per W is the same regardless of how much you clock your chip or the chip is already running at a higher clock due to other tasks then yes it makes sense to do short sharp high burst operations. But if you are otherwise not doing anything it makes most sense to run you system as whatever level is most compile in W per unit work.

Due to how perfomance and power scale very non linearly the best perf per w (in particular if you do not need to power up the display gpu etc) will be at the minimal clock.  Yes the task might take 10x as long to run but the total watt hours of power used by the chip could be well under 5% of what it would be if you full burst all core load.  The limiting factor here is knowing what the other background power draw, but it should be possible to do almost everything with just the cpu, and ssd powered up without pulling up the gpu etc. 

[community]

This has been on my mind for years! 
 

Used to be deep into the Microsoft Surface line in college and remember one windows update that just broke sleep mode and standby.

Every update after that I would have to find new work around and still I would be greeted with hot laptop and dead battery from leaving it in backpack. 

I gave up for a few years and just lived with it, I would always power off work laptop or personal one before putting it in my backpack. 

Then I got a M1 Macbook air and was amazed how closing the lid and laptop going to sleep just worked without any issues. 

It was a trusting feeling knowing when I closed my macbooks screen it would be in sleep and I wouldn't have to worry about it. 
 

It became my go to laptop for travel and work and I haven't looked back. 

This might be the most important video LTT has made in recent years because Microsoft might actually fix this annoying bug. 

Again thanks for looking into annoying bugs/ features and hopefully we see more videos like this. 

One issue that has been driving me crazy lately is with amd cpu laptops and screen diming or changing contrast while watching videos or gaming. I thought it was being caused by Vari-Bright  but after turning that off its still happening. 

The only temporary fix I've found is uninstalling Adrenalin and reinstalling it. 

Current laptop asus zephyrus g14 (ryzen 7, rtx 3060).    

[Just that Mario]

14 hours ago, Neroon said:

Tab pinning? I'm talking about browsers saving your open tabs.

Browser MAY offer you to recover your session on an unexpected shut down. When you use the shut down button OS will close all applications and nothing will be saved.

[Avocado Diaboli]

28 minutes ago, Just that Mario said:

Browser MAY offer you to recover your session on an unexpected shut down. When you use the shut down button OS will close all applications and nothing will be saved.

It'll still work. You can configure most browsers to relaunch your session where you left it off, regardless of how the computer was shut down. And even if you don't, you can usually just open the browser again, hit Ctrl+Shift+T and it'll restore all previous tabs. Since I typically have multiple browser windows open by default, I tend to close my browser via the menu, that way when I start up my PC again and open Chrome, it'll automatically launch with multiple windows and all the corresponding tabs in their proper place.

[jaslion]

Company I consult for got a fleet of 450 new thinkpads configured by default for s0 sleep. Top spec i7 models.

 

41 dead, 37 died in the last 50 days from being on in bags, on couches,... seems thermal shutdown doesnt happen in s0.

 

They support s3 and we have now been doing a recall for 3 weeks to put all in s3. Only 50 or so left and from all s3 ones we havent had a single bag death.

 

Its a big issue and unless its tackled soon it gonna get pretty big.

[silentdragon95]

PSA: Every computer supports hibernation, as it's essentually turning off the PC completely but saving your OS and programs state to disk. But I checked, for some reason Microsoft decided to stop showing the option in start menu by default. There is, however, a very simple fix for that: HERE

 

So if your laptop has te battery drainage problem, maybe try if hibernation works for you. I know it does for me.

[fritzmg]

Big thx to LTT for doing this video. I had exactly the same issue on my Lenovo X1 Carbon Gen 6 - and did not think it was that common, causing me to only use Hibernate no matter what (when closing the lid, regardless of wheter it's on battery or power). And evidently Microsoft might have already taken notice now due to this video, finally

 

Btw. to any owners of a Lenovo X1 Carbon Gen 6 or similar (running Windows 10): powercfg /a will tell you that "the system firmware does not support S3". However, you can in fact enable S3 (but thus disable S0, if that matters to you) via the BIOS under Config » Power by setting Sleep State to Linux, instead of Windows 10.

[Stahlmann]

I never expected shutting down your PC is such a big deal for a lot of people. Come on, any halfway modern laptop with an SSD will boot within a few seconds. Seems like some people here are speedrunning their life, saving every second they can. Not to mention you probably lose more time noticing that your laptop drained it's own battery and you have to charge it before doing any work. Set your browser to restore tabs on launch and you're up and running in 20 seconds after pressing the power button.

 

Sure, this issue needs to be fixed. But i'd say this is a minor annoyance at best, not a dealbreaker making every windows laptop "unuseable". This is some real sensationalism.

[Stahlmann]

10 hours ago, LloydLynx said:

Now that you say what it is, I have heard about it before. I never thought it would be the default though. 

Not default afaik, but an optional toggle in most.

[Neroon]

4 hours ago, Just that Mario said:

Browser MAY offer you to recover your session on an unexpected shut down. When you use the shut down button OS will close all applications and nothing will be saved.

Incorrect. I can just shut down Edge and it will boot up with all my tabs open. I use multiple windows so just closing a single window doesn't work that way (I can reopen the whole window), because afaik it only works for the last window you closed, but if I hit "Close Microsoft Edge" from the menu, it all works absolutely fine.

 

It doesn't mention recovering tabs, it just opens them like normal. With Edge being Chromium, I can only imagine that all other Chromium browsers have this functionality.

[GodAtum]

15 hours ago, Neroon said:

You gave 2 arguments. 1 is that you can just shut down, and 2 is that PC's need to be fully powered down, and that sleep is only for short periods.

My argument is that while you may think this is the right choice in every case, many people don't agree, they want to open up their laptop and continue where they left, without the laptop draining itself like crazy.

 

You watched a video where they argue why they believe this function needs to work correctly, because they want to work in that way, and you just tell them to do things different because that's what you like.

It's like someone is complaining about problems with their car, and you tell them to just use the train, even though the train is slower and doesn't bring you exactly where you want to be most of the time.

 

As for hibernate, yeah that option isn't available on most laptops these days afaik. It ain't on mine.

I guess it depends on the situation. I gave up on using sleep as I would often use it when driving to work. I would turn my laptop on in the morning, then put it to sleep, get in the car and drive to the office. If there was a lot of traffic, my laptop would die anyway as it ran out of battery. So i gave up and just shut it down.

[Qyygle]

9 hours ago, community said:

This has been on my mind for years! 

Used to be deep into the Microsoft Surface line in college and remember one windows update that just broke sleep mode and standby.
Every update after that I would have to find new work around and still I would be greeted with hot laptop and dead battery from leaving it in backpack. 

One issue that has been driving me crazy lately is with amd cpu laptops and screen diming or changing contrast while watching videos or gaming. I thought it was being caused by Vari-Bright  but after turning that off its still happening. 

The only temporary fix I've found is uninstalling Adrenalin and reinstalling it. 

Current laptop asus zephyrus g14 (ryzen 7, rtx 3060).    

This was also my experience to a t. Had used Surfaces as main machines through all of college. These days, I wouldn't recommend anyone pick one up, until Microsoft gets their act together. Random updates would seriously break features or introduce UI that didn't make any sense. Not everyone has the patience to scour forums for regedit fixes that shouldn't be needed in the first place. I feel like the last time I did a windows update and thought it was an improvement was moving from 8 to 8.1.

 

Regarding your AMD-screen brightness issue, are you running windows 11 by chance? I noticed a weird interaction on a flowx13, where updating to 11, Windows tried to assign a set of settings that included brightness to each power plan and display setup. Plugging in a display or changing power plan would cause brightness to change. Eventually after several re-sets and over time it seemed to resolve itself. I feel like that might've been a side-effect of 11 remembering window layouts based on display arrangement.

Triggering the dgpu over the integrated graphics also caused it to occur. You might want to see if vari-bright has turned itself back on when you start a game too. Sometimes the AMD driver has a per-game settings that can get annoying to find for each program.

[Qyygle]

4 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

I never expected shutting down your PC is such a big deal for a lot of people. Come on, any halfway modern laptop with an SSD will boot within a few seconds. Seems like some people here are speedrunning their life, saving every second they can. Not to mention you probably lose more time noticing that your laptop drained it's own battery and you have to charge it before doing any work. Set your browser to restore tabs on launch and you're up and running in 20 seconds after pressing the power button.

 

Sure, this issue needs to be fixed. But i'd say this is a minor annoyance at best, not a dealbreaker making every windows laptop "unuseable". This is some real sensationalism.

This is the default setting for basically every windows machine sold. If people were made to configure this on setting up Windows, then given a screen with warning on how this may happen, maybe it'd be acceptable.

That's not the case and most people aren't going this deep into Windows settings. I know plenty of people who would barely be able to tell me where the power plan settings are, let alone the differences between sleep and hibernate.

You close the lid or hit the power button and it goes to "sleep", this is what a standard user expects. The fact that it does not do this and can in some instances begin running updates in a bag without thermal controls (fan, heat throttling) active is a serious issue. Whether to use sleep or hibernate or just shutdown is personal preference, but allowing a laptop to run full tilt in a completely stifled environment, with apparently none of the throttling or temperature controls active because it thinks it's "sleeping" is a bit more than a minor inconvience.

[Just that Mario]

10 hours ago, Avocado Diaboli said:

It'll still work. You can configure most browsers to relaunch your session where you left it off, regardless of how the computer was shut down. And even if you don't, you can usually just open the browser again, hit Ctrl+Shift+T and it'll restore all previous tabs. Since I typically have multiple browser windows open by default, I tend to close my browser via the menu, that way when I start up my PC again and open Chrome, it'll automatically launch with multiple windows and all the corresponding tabs in their proper place.

Have not noticed this behavior with firefox and cannot remember it either from times when I used Chrome...

[NicoV]

To everyone saying that hibernate is an usable workaround: Sometimes it isn't. On both of my windows laptops, when waking from hibernation, sure my programs reopen, but all browser tabs get reloaded. For something like YouTube or this forum, that's fine. However, I will usually have many tabs open that can't just be reloaded since those websites need to reauthenticate, I can't just jump to the link I had open. Signing back into all of those websites and clicking through their convoluted and slow menus can easily take 20 minutes. This is also why shutting down doesn't work, even though yes, both laptops barely take 10 seconds to boot. Additionally: I've had machines that were supposed to be in hibernate mode shutoff for no apparent reason, in which case nothing automatically reopens when I boot back up.

 

Ironic side note: Sleep works perfectly on the Linux install on my main laptop. It has literally never been a problem.

[Gene44]

This is a bummer!  LTT won't be doing any more Window laptop reviews since they've all transitioned to Mac.

 

Not a good business move!  

[Hamrat]

On 12/3/2022 at 9:21 PM, KeitaRR said:

Applying updates while sleeping can be disabled through group policy and maybe that would help the battery draining issue too

Only if you're on a pro version of Windows

[Neroon]

7 hours ago, GodAtum said:

I guess it depends on the situation. I gave up on using sleep as I would often use it when driving to work. I would turn my laptop on in the morning, then put it to sleep, get in the car and drive to the office. If there was a lot of traffic, my laptop would die anyway as it ran out of battery. So i gave up and just shut it down.

I think this is exactly what this video and discussion is about. You would like to keep it in sleep mode, be able to resume quickly, but because experience tells you that the battery will die, you won't.

 

If software and/or hardware couldn't support this, then I think we would all be fine, I mean many of us grew up with PC's not being able to go to sleep (my first computer was a C64, so you know), but it's all possible now, and should work properly, but software gets in the way, and that's just not necessary. And since the competition apparently does much better, that's just not a good look.

[Skittlebean]

On 12/3/2022 at 10:32 AM, AlexTheGreatish said:

 

For the last THREE years Windows laptops have been plagued by terrible battery drain while the user ISN'T EVEN DOING ANYTHING. It's gotten to the point where we can't recommend using a Windows laptop because of Windows Modern Standby.

 

 

I legit thought this was widely known. Can’t put your laptop to sleep plugged in and then unplug it. Been like that for a while. 
 

thanks for digging into the “Why”; I’ve just built in a habit to always unplug before closing.

[mMontana]

Teckquickie version: tired of a drained and hot as bread laptop? Don't forget to unplug charge cord before closing the lid.

Or better... shut it down! Your blazing fast CPU and NVMe drive can boot up in less than 120 seconds!

[kokosnh]

On 12/4/2022 at 10:56 AM, just_dave said:

Booting up is not the problem, spending 10-15 minutes setting up eveything you had open and running before is.

I don't use laptop for office work, the most I can have open is putty, some web browser (with admin panels) or RDP to PC from where I can manage the network/servers (and VPN client).
The SSH/HTTPS sessions will still just time out, and the VPN will disconnect, so no gain for me at all.  

On 12/4/2022 at 12:38 AM, ang3l12 said:

do yourself a favor and disable Fast Startup using Group Policy. Its some actual craziness that happened at microsoft when they decided that "Shut Down" wouldn't actually shut down the PC. We kept getting helpdesk tickets where the user would say they shut down every night, so why should they have to reboot to try to fix an issue, and since disabling Fast Startup, a shut down actually shuts it down.

I checked, and hybrid sleep is disable, so they probably did that while they disable sleep. I just didn't know it, because I'm not directly responsible for AD policies. 
Nobody briefed me about it  

[Martian2125]

Does anyone have a link to the registry edit hack? They did not include the guide they showed in the video in the video description.