Microsoft is Forcing me to Buy MacBooks - Windows Modern Standby

[oali24]

I currently have an asus ryzen 5000 series laptop and I haven't had this issue but I think I might have had this issue with a lenovo thinkbook in linux, a few times I remember it being really hot and dead when I pulled it out of my bag but it also had some bizzare issues on linux with random crashes without reason so I assumed it might have had to do with that.

 

Honestly though, I like using hibernate anyway because I don't mind waiting a minute or two to resume my work, its one of the features that makes me use windows instead of linux because I have had really bad luck with getting the suspend (the linux equivalent of windows hibernate) function to work on my desktops and laptops.

[Ubersonic]

We had this problem in work a few years ago, so we just started disabling it before giving the laptops to users.  They can't turn it back on without admin creds so issue solved.

[Cyphexr]

My HP Envy x360 also suffers from this.

 

This morning I figured out in Windows Update settings there's an option to Allow to automatically download Windows Updates on Metered Connection. 

So, by default Windows doesn't update on the foregoing connections and you can flick the switch in every network settings, so it's metered connection. Unfortunately it may come to not updating Windows at all.

 

I will start testing it and try to come with results soon.

[silentdragon95]

None of my machines support modern standby, but I always put my computers (and that includes my Laptop) in hibernation (suspend to disk mode) when I don't need them for a while anyway. It still only takes a couple of seconds to boot back up, and I still save the time of having to reopen everything and arrange it in the way I want it to be. And at the same time it doesn't drain the battery.

 

Well, beyond the phantom battery drain that most modern laptops seem to have when they're turned off. It's only a couple of percent per day and I've never had a laptop straight up die from it but it is kinda annoying. I also don't remember older laptops (2010 era) having this problem - then again, those had terrible battery life by default so maybe it just wasn't noticeable.

[just_dave]

11 hours ago, kokosnh said:

as the IT worker, I never use the sleep function in laptops. I just always power it down (and restart it one in a while, as restart is actually different from shutting it down)
It takes it 7-15 seconds to start up with fast boot in UEFi, why bother with sleep, and drain you battery even little bit? 
If the 15 seconds it take to start up a laptop from OFF, is ever a problem in my work, then I need to change my job...   

 

We even disable sleep in the AD for all PC in the company, as PC wouldn't update some AD PC policies, if people just put them to sleep all the time.

Booting up is not the problem, spending 10-15 minutes setting up eveything you had open and running before is.

[Dylan96]

I had this issue for a while. Finally enabled S3 sleep, now the laptop seems to sleep properly… only problem i now get a black screen on wake up and i have to force shut it down…

[SOmmm]

 

My laptop is in Standby s3 by default. 

[Zodiark1593]

16 hours ago, Senzelian said:

Just checked my Lenovo P1 and neither S1, S2 nor S0 are supported. Only S3 is and Hibernate. I guess this is due to the relatively old Xeon E-2176M.

Edit: I never experienced this tho, as I always shut down my notebooks. 

Thank Gaben for modern SSDs. 

[Zodiark1593]

16 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Hi, my name is Crunchy and I'm a lifelong Windows user who switched to a MacBook Pro.

 

For what feels like the first time ever, my laptop actually reaches the manufacturer's claimed battery life, even if I'm opening and closing it throughout the day. Apple marketed the 2019 16" MBP as reaching 11 hours of battery life and so far it hasn't disappointed.

 

I might be fully on the Apple train for laptops from here on out, and I guess I have something new to watch out for should I ever need to buy a Windows laptop.

Kind of wish I could go Apple, but I play a lot of games on my laptop (kind of need x86 for that), so that’s a pretty firm “No”. 

[nutral]

I've had the same issues with a previous laptop. so i resolved to just start and stop my laptop when travelling. I just checked my current laptop with powercfg however and it doesn't seem to support S0 and does support S3. This is a Gigabyte aero 15 from 2021 (15in, 11800h, 3070, 2kg)

[Tomberry]

the video explanes a lot. i just thought that my dell xps 13 9300 was just acting upp

[Crunchy Dragon]

1 hour ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Kind of wish I could go Apple, but I play a lot of games on my laptop (kind of need x86 for that), so that’s a pretty firm “No”. 

Intel-based MacBooks have decreased in price pretty dramatically since the M1 and M2 Macs, the main issue with gaming on Mac is the OS support. Catalina killed support for a lot of 32 bit applications if I'm recalling correctly, which also doesn't help matters.

[fpo]

I'd love an M1, but $300 for a fairly modern gaming laptop kinda kills the need for it.

So what it's 1.5 inches thick? It works great.

Go to Gym class.

 

Spoiler

In regards to the video... I just turn off my computers. I always felt like sleep was not great unless you needed the computer to do a task overnight.

 

[Neroon]

12 hours ago, SansVarnic said:

Yes, it can be annoying, but that is not my point. As @swimtome points out quite well and I agree. PC/laptops need more periodic reboots and as I mentioned, nobody is in such a hurry not to wait the extra 30seconds to boot. It's called the culture of convenience and it's something we have developed over time that has led to a culture of impatience.

I agree that things should work as expected especially when it wasn't broken to start and became broke by design by choice; but then again expectations fail when reality stands in the way sometimes and we should be prepared to work around and have alternate solutions for such things. 

Should Microsoft and hardware developers correct this? Yes, absolutley. But there are much better things to spend one's time worrying or fussing over rather than this miniscule non-life inhibiting inconvenience.

 

I am a man of many things, but a lack of situational awareness and critical thinking has never been my weakness.

 

*edit: I should add.

The sleep state was never intended for prolonged periods of time, it was intended for short periods of time such as 15mins to an hour and maybe two. The sleep state wasn't designed to make your laptop passive for 3-10 to 72hr periods and maintain a battery life. Thinking otherwise is obnoxious. When you expect to walk away for longer than 2 or so hours, shut it down, then this will give you the expected run time. Its a mobile pc not a tablet or smartphone designed to run in standby.

 

It's not the extra boot time, I don't know about your PC, but mine starts lightning fast.

The advantage of sleep, is that you can get back to where you left off, you don't have to reopen stuff etc. You are simply much more productive if everything is on your screen right away.

 

To compare, imagine if we went back to browsers where non of your tabs were being saved. I would go insane, it was my primary reason to not shut down my pc back in the day.

[Just that Mario]

Microsoft cannot even figure out how to make an on/off toggle actually do what it claims to do, so I am not even surprised. Surprisingly one of the worlds biggest software companies is absolutely garbage at developing well working software.

Oh and it's like internal goal of Microsoft to make software worse with every feature update I had no issues with first release of Windows 11. Then every feature release from there has made things worse and random UI bugs show up.

Btw, does this also happen when you first close the lid and then plug the laptop in?

PS: I am shocked how many people claim that they always do a full shut down on their laptops...

[LloydLynx]

1 hour ago, Neroon said:

To compare, imagine if we went back to browsers where non of your tabs were being saved. I would go insane, it was my primary reason to not shut down my pc back in the day.

Do you mean that tab pinning thing I see everyone else doing? 

[Neroon]

1 minute ago, LloydLynx said:

Do you mean that tab pinning thing I see everyone else doing? 

Tab pinning? I'm talking about browsers saving your open tabs.

[silentdragon95]

7 hours ago, just_dave said:

Booting up is not the problem, spending 10-15 minutes setting up eveything you had open and running before is.

Which is why Hibernation aka. suspend to disk is the mode to go for if you're going to be putting the laptop away for a while. It will completely turn the computer off but when you turn it back on again, everything will resume just like you had it set up.

 

Although I think you may have to force Windows to show you the option for Hibernation in the start menu these days.

[DataStorm]

It's so simple, M$ can only track you if the laptop is ALIVE!!! They don't want you to let it sleep. Just turn it OFF.

[SansVarnic]

4 hours ago, Neroon said:

It's not the extra boot time, I don't know about your PC, but mine starts lightning fast.

The advantage of sleep, is that you can get back to where you left off, you don't have to reopen stuff etc. You are simply much more productive if everything is on your screen right away.

 

To compare, imagine if we went back to browsers where non of your tabs were being saved. I would go insane, it was my primary reason to not shut down my pc back in the day.

I am not entirely sure why you're arguing this with me as this is off point to my argument. I understand the reason behind sleep and the convenience it offers and I have said as much in my replies.. You seem to be missing the point of my argument but that is fine. apple to oranges.

But for your position, I'll toss you a bone, hibernation also allows for this convenience while allowing you to shut the machine down and it has been around for about the same time as sleep. Just another alternative for the convenience factor.

[xBIGREDDx]

17 hours ago, hishnash said:

One thing MS should be doing, and I am sure they are not is with modern standby if it does wake up they should only use the e-cores on these modern chips and even then rate limit the clock speeds to be ultra low. There is no reason the device should get even close to warm even if it does way up when the lid without a screen attached it should be in an ultra low power mode (single core limited to the cpu min clock speed... after all that is all you need to download an update). 

This is typically the opposite of what you want; there's a concept called "race to sleep" where you actually use less power by using the highest power mode to get work done faster. This isn't necessarily applicable if you're rate limited by something like a download, but running updates in a bag is already a bug so they won't be redesigning the sleep system for it.

[LloydLynx]

2 hours ago, Neroon said:

Tab pinning? I'm talking about browsers saving your open tabs.

The thing where tabs get reopened if you computers power gets cut? Yeah I see how that would be useful if you laptop dies in your bag. 

[CadenPerry]

On 12/3/2022 at 12:24 PM, cyan_echo said:

@AlexTheGreatish You can use powercfg command to switch to "Disconnected Standby" for both plugged in and battery modes. This allows you to retain the Instant On feature without risking battery drain. You can check the full writeup on Microsoft's blog: https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/surface-it-pro-blog/surface-power-management-with-modern-standby-in-windows-10/ba-p/328897

I have switched to Disconnected Standby on my Surface Pro 7 and I haven't had the random drain issue ever since. Hopefully those same commands work on other laptops as well, not just Surface.

Tried to post this in the YT comments, but my comments are disappearing for some reason(thanks google), so if you test this and it helps you out, feel free to spread the word there.

Here is another source that in option 3 gives copy paste options for both on battery and when plugged in: https://winbuzzer.com/2020/07/31/how-to-network-connectivity-in-modern-standby-on-or-off-in-windows-10-xcxwbt/#:~:text=How to Enable or Disable Network Connectivity While,“Plugged in” settings%2C with the following options%3A

[Neroon]

3 hours ago, SansVarnic said:

I am not entirely sure why you're arguing this with me as this is off point to my argument. I understand the reason behind sleep and the convenience it offers and I have said as much in my replies.. You seem to be missing the point of my argument but that is fine. apple to oranges.

But for your position, I'll toss you a bone, hibernation also allows for this convenience while allowing you to shut the machine down and it has been around for about the same time as sleep. Just another alternative for the convenience factor.

You gave 2 arguments. 1 is that you can just shut down, and 2 is that PC's need to be fully powered down, and that sleep is only for short periods.

My argument is that while you may think this is the right choice in every case, many people don't agree, they want to open up their laptop and continue where they left, without the laptop draining itself like crazy.

 

You watched a video where they argue why they believe this function needs to work correctly, because they want to work in that way, and you just tell them to do things different because that's what you like.

It's like someone is complaining about problems with their car, and you tell them to just use the train, even though the train is slower and doesn't bring you exactly where you want to be most of the time.

 

As for hibernate, yeah that option isn't available on most laptops these days afaik. It ain't on mine.

[SansVarnic]

17 minutes ago, Neroon said:

You gave 2 arguments. 1 is that you can just shut down, and 2 is that PC's need to be fully powered down, and that sleep is only for short periods.

My argument is that while you may think this is the right choice in every case, many people don't agree, they want to open up their laptop and continue where they left, without the laptop draining itself like crazy.

 I gave one argument, the next was a supporting example. If you're not going to pay attention to the conversation, then there is no reason for me to continue having this discussion with you.

I understand your argument perfectly well It doesn't seem to be sinking in that I am not against fixing the issue brought up in the video. 

 

17 minutes ago, Neroon said:

You watched a video where they argue why they believe this function needs to work correctly, because they want to work in that way, and you just tell them to do things different because that's what you like.

Um no. you're not getting it. Re-read what I said.

 

17 minutes ago, Neroon said:

It's like someone is complaining about problems with their car, and you tell them to just use the train, even though the train is slower and doesn't bring you exactly where you want to be most of the time.

Yeah, there is no similarity in this example. I'm losing hope for you.

 

17 minutes ago, Neroon said:

As for hibernate, yeah that option isn't available on most laptops these days afaik. It ain't on mine.

Then I guess its not an option for you then... moving on.

 

Look you're not getting the point of my original comment and it seems to me that you want to argue with me specifically for some reason over this. Lets move on.