moca Coax to Ethernet (MoCA) help

[Khoomn]

So I've been trying to convince my parents to let me do an ethernet cable from the router in the basement to my room on the top floor. They keep saying sure but never do anything about it. I then realized that I have a coax cable curled up in the corner of my room which leads to the basement. My plan is to use MoCA to just use the coax cable as a medium for ethernet since its already run and ill just connect an ethernet cable on each end, one to the router and the other to my computer. My problem is, im seeing 2 different things online. One popular is MoCA and the other is just a simple coax to RJ45 conversion cable like this. Which do I need? I need one on both ends since it would be going from the router as ethernet to the coax medium then back to ethernet on my PC. I'm not entirely sure what MoCA really is, all I know is that it turns coax into ethernet but I'm not sure where it exactly is used and in what case.

 

If the answer is MoCA on both ends, what is a good priced MoCA connector? I only need gigabit

[Needfuldoer]

That connector won't work. M12 has four pins, your cable TV coax only has one (most likely terminated with an F connector.) Those aren't even designed for Ethernet networking, they're made so specialty equipment can use cheap, commodity networking cable instead of expensive special cable in industrial installations.

 

https://www.amazon.com/ASI-ASITPA-4512MD-S-Rj45-M12-Adapter/dp/B07DXZYCMK

 

 

You need real MoCA adapters with active electronics in them. Ethernet hasn't natively worked over coax cable since the 90s.

 

46 minutes ago, Khoomn said:

I'm not entirely sure what MoCA really is, all I know is that it turns coax into ethernet but I'm not sure where it exactly is used and in what case.

That's all it is. You put a media converter at each end of the run, they take your network traffic and shove it over coax. You don't need to overthink the how-s and why-s for a simple residential installation, especially if that cable goes directly from one end to the other without any other connections on it.

 

MoCA will be better than powerline Ethernet, almost as good as installing a real cable run.

[Khoomn]

42 minutes ago, Needfuldoer said:

That connector won't work. M12 has four pins, your cable TV coax only has one (most likely terminated with an F connector.) Those aren't even designed for Ethernet networking, they're made so specialty equipment can use cheap, commodity networking cable instead of expensive special cable in industrial installations.

 

https://www.amazon.com/ASI-ASITPA-4512MD-S-Rj45-M12-Adapter/dp/B07DXZYCMK

 

 

You need real MoCA adapters with active electronics in them. Ethernet hasn't natively worked over coax cable since the 90s.

 

That's all it is. You put a media converter at each end of the run, they take your network traffic and shove it over coax. You don't need to overthink the how-s and why-s for a simple residential installation, especially if that cable goes directly from one end to the other without any other connections on it.

 

MoCA will be better than powerline Ethernet, almost as good as installing a real cable run.

Alright so I need 2 MoCA connectors? Whats a good one that is reliable but wont break the bank? I saw a pair on amazon for like $180 but that seems like a lot. Also I'm not entirely sure if its one long run. I know it splits off into the room next to mine and then into my room but I'm not sure if its a splitter or something. If there is a splitter, will moca not work?

[mariushm]

There's also the issue of the coaxial cable being 50 ohm or 75 ohm ... the existing cable is most likely for old analogue tv, so the wrong impedance for digital data.

 

Is the coaxial cable loose in the walls, or is it locked in several places? If it's loose, you could just tie a steel wire in the basement at the end of the coaxial cable and then pull up the coaxial cable.

Now you have steel wire instead of coaxial cable, so now you can back in the basement and tie both ethernet and coax to the steel wire and then pull both up using the steel wire.

They make flat ethernet cable these days , you could wrap the flat ethernet cable around the coaxial cable or just use heatshrink or electrical tape to tape the flat cable along the coaxial cable length and you end up with just a thicker coaxial cable - if needed you can cut the ethernet connectors at both ends to make it easy to slide the thicker "coax-eth" cable through the walls, then you can replace the wall plate with coax with a wall plate with ethernet jack .

 

Example of flat ethernet cable (100ft) : https://www.amazon.com/Ethernet-Internet-Network-Computer-Connectors/dp/B00WD017BG/

 

example of wall plate (with keystone you plug connector in) : https://www.amazon.com/IBL-Keystone-Ethernet-Plate-Female/dp/B08K8XP26S/

You'll want one of these because those flat cables will have thinner stranded wires so you can't use the keystone connectors where you use a punch down tool on the solid core wires.

 

example of steel wire (100ft) : https://www.amazon.com/Ook-04527001297-50141-Galvanized-Multicolor/dp/B001EX1C2W/

 

[Donut417]

1 hour ago, Khoomn said:

saw a pair on amazon for like $180 but that seems like a lot.

Moca is expensive. So that’s basically the going rate. 

[Khoomn]

10 hours ago, mariushm said:

There's also the issue of the coaxial cable being 50 ohm or 75 ohm ... the existing cable is most likely for old analogue tv, so the wrong impedance for digital data.

 

Is the coaxial cable loose in the walls, or is it locked in several places? If it's loose, you could just tie a steel wire in the basement at the end of the coaxial cable and then pull up the coaxial cable.

Now you have steel wire instead of coaxial cable, so now you can back in the basement and tie both ethernet and coax to the steel wire and then pull both up using the steel wire.

They make flat ethernet cable these days , you could wrap the flat ethernet cable around the coaxial cable or just use heatshrink or electrical tape to tape the flat cable along the coaxial cable length and you end up with just a thicker coaxial cable - if needed you can cut the ethernet connectors at both ends to make it easy to slide the thicker "coax-eth" cable through the walls, then you can replace the wall plate with coax with a wall plate with ethernet jack .

 

Example of flat ethernet cable (100ft) : https://www.amazon.com/Ethernet-Internet-Network-Computer-Connectors/dp/B00WD017BG/

 

example of wall plate (with keystone you plug connector in) : https://www.amazon.com/IBL-Keystone-Ethernet-Plate-Female/dp/B08K8XP26S/

You'll want one of these because those flat cables will have thinner stranded wires so you can't use the keystone connectors where you use a punch down tool on the solid core wires.

 

example of steel wire (100ft) : https://www.amazon.com/Ook-04527001297-50141-Galvanized-Multicolor/dp/B001EX1C2W/

 

Its old cable from id say 2005 ish?? Maybe a bit later like 2010 but thats where I think its around. Its also locked in place as it runs from the basement and is stapled to the outside of the house and runs from the outside into the room next to me

[Khoomn]

8 hours ago, NastyFlytrap said:

If you're feeling brave, you could probably use the coax cable to pull ethernet into your walls lmao.

Just figure out where the holes/boxes are in the walls where you can pull the cable from, duct tape the ethernet to the end of the coaxial cable, and pull. 
If all goes well you'll pull the coax out of the wall, and the ethernet into the wall along with it.

We're talking about american houses made entirely of drywall right? If so it shouldnt be too hard. 
Pulling it into conduits in solid brick walls would be a fair bit more challenging, still not impossible, but then you'd really have to pull it piece by piece, corner by corner.

Cant pull the cable through with the coax as described before as the coax cable goes from the basement to the outside and is stapled to the outside wall and painted over.

 

21 hours ago, mariushm said:

There's also the issue of the coaxial cable being 50 ohm or 75 ohm ... the existing cable is most likely for old analogue tv, so the wrong impedance for digital data.

 

Is the coaxial cable loose in the walls, or is it locked in several places? If it's loose, you could just tie a steel wire in the basement at the end of the coaxial cable and then pull up the coaxial cable.

Now you have steel wire instead of coaxial cable, so now you can back in the basement and tie both ethernet and coax to the steel wire and then pull both up using the steel wire.

They make flat ethernet cable these days , you could wrap the flat ethernet cable around the coaxial cable or just use heatshrink or electrical tape to tape the flat cable along the coaxial cable length and you end up with just a thicker coaxial cable - if needed you can cut the ethernet connectors at both ends to make it easy to slide the thicker "coax-eth" cable through the walls, then you can replace the wall plate with coax with a wall plate with ethernet jack .

 

Example of flat ethernet cable (100ft) : https://www.amazon.com/Ethernet-Internet-Network-Computer-Connectors/dp/B00WD017BG/

 

example of wall plate (with keystone you plug connector in) : https://www.amazon.com/IBL-Keystone-Ethernet-Plate-Female/dp/B08K8XP26S/

You'll want one of these because those flat cables will have thinner stranded wires so you can't use the keystone connectors where you use a punch down tool on the solid core wires.

 

example of steel wire (100ft) : https://www.amazon.com/Ook-04527001297-50141-Galvanized-Multicolor/dp/B001EX1C2W/

 

I also checked the cable as its spooled up in my room. This is exactly whats written on the cable. Im assuming the 0938 ft part is part of the whole spool they bought as the run from the basement to my room should only be around 150 feet, not 938. I also looked at the coax going to my router (yes we are still using coax) and we have near gigabit speeds (supposedly, i havent tested it really) and the cable coming from the isp is a CATV cable as well which then right near the router, has a splitter which leads to a coax power and then to the router with a CATVX cable. I have no idea why that is, because I dont think CATV can just goto CATVX with some power.

 

Quote

PPC PERFECT FLEX 6 SERIES 18 AWG CATV, CL2, CL3, (ETL)us or CM c(ETL)us 3088178 •2011• 0938ft

 

[Khoomn]

Still need help with this

[Donut417]

1 hour ago, Khoomn said:

Still need help with this

Looks like that’s RG6. Which is what you need. You will need a Moca filter on the main line coming in to your home from the cable co. This filter prevents Moca from exiting your home and reflects the signal back in to the home. You may need to replace that splitter with a Moca capable one. 

[Khoomn]

7 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Looks like that’s RG6. Which is what you need. You will need a Moca filter on the main line coming in to your home from the cable co. This filter prevents Moca from exiting your home and reflects the signal back in to the home. You may need to replace that splitter with a Moca capable one. 

Well I am able to just disconnect the cable going from my room to the basement splitter. I can just have a direct connection from my pc to the router so I dont need a moca filter correct?

[Donut417]

1 minute ago, Khoomn said:

direct connection from my pc to the router so I dont need a moca filter correct?

As long as the line does not have cable service going thru it. Meaning it goes from Moca adapter to Moca adapter with on the coax wire in-between you need no filter. However if it connects to a Splitter getting cable/internet signal then you do need a splitter. 

[Khoomn]

13 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

As long as the line does not have cable service going thru it. Meaning it goes from Moca adapter to Moca adapter with on the coax wire in-between you need no filter. However if it connects to a Splitter getting cable/internet signal then you do need a splitter. 

do moca filters come with the moca kits or do i have to buy them seperately?

[Madmaximus01]

Sounds like your best solution is to just buy ethernet cables and go with your original idea, even though you already have a coax cable, your already having to come up with buying extra hardware for this or that thing for the coax to be a viable solution. When the simplest solution is buy some long runs of ethernet cable snake it thru house and be done. Instead of trying to muck around with this coax thing. I've used coax myself, when I worked as an installer for a contractor who worked for an isp. All over the area where I live, did everything from fibre installs to satellite. Satellite installs were the only time I ever used coax.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Madmaximus01
Additional info added

[Khoomn]

1 minute ago, Madmaximus01 said:

Sounds like your best solution is to just buy ethernet cables and go with your original idea, even though you already have a coax cable, your already having to come up with buying extra hardware for this or that thing for the coax to be a viable solution. When the simplest solution is buy some long runs of ethernet cable snake it thru house and be done. Instead of trying to muck around with this coax thing. 

i said this in my dupe post but not here i guess. This is my parents house, not mine. I cannot run new cables, I cannot drill holes in the wall. I have to work with what I got, which is powerline or coax

[Madmaximus01]

3 minutes ago, Khoomn said:

i said this in my dupe post but not here i guess. This is my parents house, not mine. I cannot run new cables, I cannot drill holes in the wall. I have to work with what I got, which is powerline or coax

Use old coax cable as a pull thru, attach ethernet cable to one end  of coax and pull it thru, bobs your uncle boom you now have ethernet cabling in an already existing hole. If your parents refuse this well...maybe it's time to move out. My house was exactly like that. Previous owners had coax cables run thru house for every room. I attached ethernet cabling to end of coax cables already run through house and just snaked the ethernet cabling thru existing holes, using the coax cabling as a guide.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Madmaximus01
Additional info added

[Khoomn]

2 minutes ago, Madmaximus01 said:

Use old coax cable as a pull thru, attach ethernet cable to one end  of coax and pull it thru, bobs your uncle boom you now have ethernet cabling in an already existing hole. If your parents refuse this well...maybe it's time to move out. My house was exactly like that. Previous owners had coax cables run thru house for every room. I attached ethernet cabling to end of coax cables already run through house and just snaked the ethernet cabling thru existing holes, using the coax cabling as a guide.

The coax cable goes outside through the wall and is stapled to the outside wall

[Donut417]

Just now, Madmaximus01 said:

Use old coax cable as a pull thru, attach ethernete cable to one end and pull it thru, bobs your uncle boom you now have ethernet cabling in an already existing hole. If your parents refuse this well...maybe it's time to move out.

Depending on how the Coax was run its not that simple. Some times its stapled to the studs and such. Especially if it was installed before the drywall went up. 

[Madmaximus01]

11 minutes ago, Khoomn said:

The coax cable goes outside through the wall and is stapled to the outside wall

So it's a genuine hardware issue. The "internet box" from the outside uses coax...right. whelp . The only time I've ever seen coax used here in Australia where I live have been with satellite installs.

[Madmaximus01]

3 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Depending on how the Coax was run its not that simple. Some times its stapled to the studs and such. Especially if it was installed before the drywall went up. 

I'm the kind of person who that's not an issue for, I'll get up in the roof and look in all the nooks and crannies and just get 'er done.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Madmaximus01

[Donut417]

4 minutes ago, Madmaximus01 said:

So it's a genuine hardware issue. The "internet box" from the outside uses coax...right. whelp 🫤. The only time I've ever seen coax used here in aus where I live has been with satellite installs.

He has Docsis Cable internet service. Is common around the world. We have 5 major providers in the US who provide that service and a large number of regional providers. Most likely in your area you guys were or are on some form of DSL and probably now moving to Fiber. Coax based internet has been around forever at this point however, We have had it since the early 2000s. 

 

5 minutes ago, Madmaximus01 said:

'm the kind of person who that's not an issue for, I'll get up in the roof and look in all the nooks and crannies and just get 'er done.

Thats a benefit you get when you own your own home. Generally living with your folks or renting comes with restrictions. Also for some damn reason I have to remind people here that not everyone is mechanically inclined. I for one am not the guy you ask to do this type of work. Not everyone is comfortable with drilling holes and such. Especially if they lead to the outside of the home as that can lead to damage if not done right. 

[Madmaximus01]

Just now, Donut417 said:

He has Docsis Cable internet service. Is common around the world. We have 5 major providers in the US who provide that service and a large number of regional providers. Most likely in your area you guys were or are on some form of DSL and probably now moving to Fiber. Coax based internet has been around forever at this point however, We have had it since the early 2000s. 

 

Thats a benefit you get when you own your own home. Generally living with your folks or renting comes with restrictions. Also for some damn reason I have to remind people here that not everyone is mechanically inclined. I for one am not the guy you ask to do this type of work. Not everyone is comfortable with drilling holes and such. Especially if they lead to the outside of the home as that can lead to damage if not done right. 

I have a tendency to forget that myself...thanks for the reminder.

[Khoomn]

4 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

He has Docsis Cable internet service. Is common around the world. We have 5 major providers in the US who provide that service and a large number of regional providers. Most likely in your area you guys were or are on some form of DSL and probably now moving to Fiber. Coax based internet has been around forever at this point however, We have had it since the early 2000s. 

 

Thats a benefit you get when you own your own home. Generally living with your folks or renting comes with restrictions. Also for some damn reason I have to remind people here that not everyone is mechanically inclined. I for one am not the guy you ask to do this type of work. Not everyone is comfortable with drilling holes and such. Especially if they lead to the outside of the home as that can lead to damage if not done right. 

So with that in mind, you think i should be fine if i just go from pc ethernet, to moca, through the line to the basement, back through a moca adapter to the router? It should support gigabit or no?

[Donut417]

1 minute ago, Khoomn said:

So with that in mind, you think i should be fine if i just go from pc ethernet, to moca, through the line to the basement, back through a moca adapter to the router? It should support gigabit or no?

That should be fine. From the latest LTT video  as well as the research I have done with Moca as long as its only 2 moca adapters you should get close if not all the related speed. 

[Khoomn]

2 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

That should be fine. From the latest LTT video  as well as the research I have done with Moca as long as its only 2 moca adapters you should get close if not all the related speed. 

so whatever my 2011 cable is, should do good speeds even though its really old?

[Donut417]

1 minute ago, Khoomn said:

so whatever my 2011 cable is, should do good speeds even though its really old?

Its not about the age its about the standard. RG6 has more shielding and therefore less signal loss over distance. The only concern is that the outside sections of the cable might break down over time. Cable used outside is generally UV resistant. The keyword there is resistant, not UV proof. So if the cable is exposed to direct sun light it could breakdown the sheathing and cause issues. You can visually inspect the came if you want. At the end of the day without buying hardware and testing, you will never know. Just buy from a store with a good return policy.