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Your Keyboard Sucks and I Can Prove It.

James

Buying the right keyboard for yourself can be a difficult and expensive endeavor, so we've purchased a robot to ensure everything is up to par. Actuation force graphs, teardowns, and sound tests will soon be at your fingertips.

 

 

 

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Forget all those big names, review Keychron first, makers of the best keyboards.

Then compare all of the big names to this single little company, to see if they compete.

Are you guys going to go by price between the companies? or do One Company per video and do the popular options in their line ups?

I edit my posts a lot, Twitter is @LordStreetguru just don't ask PC questions there mostly...
 

Spoiler

 

What is your budget/country for your new PC?

 

what monitor resolution/refresh rate?

 

What games or other software do you need to run?

 

 

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*gasp* Linus leaked the unannounced "RTX 4080 12GB" at the end *gasp*

 

/s

Main System (Byarlant): Ryzen 7 5800X | Asus B550-Creator ProArt | EK 240mm Basic AIO | 16GB G.Skill DDR4 3200MT/s CAS-14 | XFX Speedster SWFT 210 RX 6600 | Samsung 990 PRO 2TB / Samsung 960 PRO 512GB / 4× Crucial MX500 2TB (RAID-0) | Corsair RM750X | Mellanox ConnectX-3 10G NIC | Inateck USB 3.0 Card | Hyte Y60 Case | Dell U3415W Monitor | Keychron K4 Brown (white backlight)

 

Laptop (Narrative): Lenovo Flex 5 81X20005US | Ryzen 5 4500U | 16GB RAM (soldered) | Vega 6 Graphics | SKHynix P31 1TB NVMe SSD | Intel AX200 Wifi (all-around awesome machine)

 

Proxmox Server (Veda): Ryzen 7 3800XT | AsRock Rack X470D4U | Corsair H80i v2 | 64GB Micron DDR4 ECC 3200MT/s | 4x 10TB WD Whites / 4x 14TB Seagate Exos / 2× Samsung PM963a 960GB SSD | Seasonic Prime Fanless 500W | Intel X540-T2 10G NIC | LSI 9207-8i HBA | Fractal Design Node 804 Case (side panels swapped to show off drives) | VMs: TrueNAS Scale; Ubuntu Server (PiHole/PiVPN/NGINX?); Windows 10 Pro; Ubuntu Server (Apache/MySQL)


Media Center/Video Capture (Jesta Cannon): Ryzen 5 1600X | ASRock B450M Pro4 R2.0 | Noctua NH-L12S | 16GB Crucial DDR4 3200MT/s CAS-22 | EVGA GTX750Ti SC | UMIS NVMe SSD 256GB / Seagate 1.5TB HDD | Corsair CX450M | Hauppauge ImpactVCB-PCIe | Mellanox ConnectX-2 10G NIC | LG UH12NS30 BD-ROM | Silverstone Sugo SG-11 Case | Sony XR65A80K

 

Camera: Sony ɑ7II w/ Meike Grip | Sony SEL24240 | Samyang 35mm ƒ/2.8 | Sony SEL50F18F | Sony SEL2870 (kit lens) | PNY Elite Perfomance 512GB SDXC card

 

Network:

Spoiler
                           ┌─────────────── Office/Rack ────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┐
Google Fiber Webpass ────── UniFi Security Gateway ─── UniFi Switch 8-60W ─┬─ UniFi Switch Flex XG ═╦═ Veda (Proxmox Virtual Switch)
(500Mbps↑/500Mbps↓)                             UniFi CloudKey Gen2 (PoE) ─┴─ Veda (IPMI)           ╠═ Veda-NAS (HW Passthrough NIC)
╔═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╩═ Narrative (Asus USB 2.5G NIC)
║ ┌────── Closet ──────┐   ┌─────────────── Bedroom ──────────────────────────────────────────────────────┐
╚═ UniFi Switch Flex XG ═╤═ UniFi Switch Flex XG ═╦═ Byarlant
   (PoE)                 │                        ╠═ Narrative (Cable Matters USB-PD 2.5G Ethernet Dongle)
                         │                        ╚═ Jesta Cannon*
                         │ ┌─────────────── Media Center ──────────────────────────────────┐
Notes:                   └─ UniFi Switch 8 ─────────┬─ UniFi Access Point nanoHD (PoE)
═══ is Multi-Gigabit                                ├─ Sony Playstation 4 
─── is Gigabit                                      ├─ Pioneer VSX-S520
* = cable passed to Bedroom from Media Center       ├─ Sony XR65A80K (Google TV)
** = cable passed from Media Center to Bedroom      └─ Work Laptop** (Startech USB-PD Dock)

 

Retired/Other:

Spoiler

Laptop (Rozen-Zulu): Sony VAIO VPCF13WFX | Core i7-740QM | 8GB Patriot DDR3 | GT 425M | Samsung 850EVO 250GB SSD | Blu-ray Drive | Intel 7260 Wifi (lived a good life, retired with honor)

Testbed/Old Desktop (Kshatriya): Xeon X5470 @ 4.0GHz | ZALMAN CNPS9500 | Gigabyte EP45-UD3L | 8GB Nanya DDR2 400MHz | XFX HD6870 DD | OCZ Vertex 3 Max-IOPS 120GB | Corsair CX430M | HooToo USB 3.0 PCIe Card | Osprey 230 Video Capture | NZXT H230 Case

TrueNAS Server (La Vie en Rose): Xeon E3-1241v3 | Supermicro X10SLL-F | Corsair H60 | 32GB Micron DDR3L ECC 1600MHz | 1x Kingston 16GB SSD / Crucial MX500 500GB

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Will you guys soon do DIY keyboards as well?

Making your own keyboard/keyboards based on existing PCB files/STL's

 

For examples:

https://github.com/help-14/mechanical-keyboard

 

Please also test out my keyboard [X-bows knight Plus [blue switches]] [did  as switch swap to gateron v2.0 pro's myself]

https://x-bows.com/collections/keyboards

 

╔═════════════╦═══════════════════════════════════════════╗
║__________________║ hardware_____________________________________________________ ║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ cpu ______________║ ryzen 9 5900x_________________________________________________ ║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ GPU______________║ ASUS strix LC RX6800xt______________________________________ _║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ motherboard_______ ║ asus crosshair formulla VIII______________________________________║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ memory___________║ CMW32GX4M2Z3600C18 ______________________________________║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ SSD______________║ Samsung 980 PRO 1TB_________________________________________ ║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ PSU______________║ Corsair RM850x 850W _______________________ __________________║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ CPU cooler _______ ║ Be Quiet be quiet! PURE LOOP 360mm ____________________________║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ Case_____________ ║ Thermaltake Core X71 __________________________________________║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ HDD_____________ ║ 2TB and 6TB HDD ____________________________________________║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ Front IO__________   ║ LG blu-ray drive & 3.5" card reader, [trough a 5.25 to 3.5 bay]__________║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣ 
║ OS_______________ ║ Windows 10 PRO______________________________________________║
╚═════════════╩═══════════════════════════════════════════╝

 

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Would absolutely love to see how well different keyboards handle multiple inputs at the same time, while many boards are NKRO compatible, they still only register one input per polling cycle. This is a big deal for certain rhythm games where a lot of marketed 1k hz gaming keyboards still space out inputs by 1+ms despite all keys having been pressed at the same time. Some top players can average sub 5ms standard deviation over a course of the song and having a quad not spaced out along 4ms can be score ruining. Worst exampled I have seen are some QMK boards that even with a custom firmware have still spaced out inputs by 4-8ms. 

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28 minutes ago, Streetguru said:

Forget all those big names, review Keychron first, makers of the best keyboards.

Keychron is only one of the best prebuilt manufacturers- Leopold and a couple others make very good ones as well, they’re just not as well known.

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13 minutes ago, MINIMUMPFC said:

Would absolutely love to see how well different keyboards handle multiple inputs at the same time, while many boards are NKRO compatible, they still only register one input per polling cycle. This is a big deal for certain rhythm games where a lot of marketed 1k hz gaming keyboards still space out inputs by 1+ms despite all keys having been pressed at the same time. Some top players can average sub 5ms standard deviation over a course of the song and having a quad not spaced out along 4ms can be score ruining. Worst exampled I have seen are some QMK boards that even with a custom firmware have still spaced out inputs by 4-8ms. 

True, with QMK, some people have made keyboards that have a super fast latency, but they don't have as many features.

 

With QMK, you also get VIA/VIAL to modify/change settings, which opens whole other can of worms. as this can make or break tests, since setting A might increase the speed with 0.01ms, but setting B decreases it with 2 MS.

 

If they do this for keyboards that support all 3, [like my keyboard Xbows Knight+] they need 3 different tests, as the firmware might have small variations, in terms of response time.

╔═════════════╦═══════════════════════════════════════════╗
║__________________║ hardware_____________________________________________________ ║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ cpu ______________║ ryzen 9 5900x_________________________________________________ ║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ GPU______________║ ASUS strix LC RX6800xt______________________________________ _║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ motherboard_______ ║ asus crosshair formulla VIII______________________________________║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ memory___________║ CMW32GX4M2Z3600C18 ______________________________________║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ SSD______________║ Samsung 980 PRO 1TB_________________________________________ ║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ PSU______________║ Corsair RM850x 850W _______________________ __________________║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ CPU cooler _______ ║ Be Quiet be quiet! PURE LOOP 360mm ____________________________║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ Case_____________ ║ Thermaltake Core X71 __________________________________________║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ HDD_____________ ║ 2TB and 6TB HDD ____________________________________________║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ Front IO__________   ║ LG blu-ray drive & 3.5" card reader, [trough a 5.25 to 3.5 bay]__________║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣ 
║ OS_______________ ║ Windows 10 PRO______________________________________________║
╚═════════════╩═══════════════════════════════════════════╝

 

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Linus: We're gonna give you guys the most comprehensive test data you'd ever want!

 

GamersNexus enters the chat: we'll see about that!

 

🤣

"You don't need eyes to see, you need vision"

 

(Faithless, 'Reverence' from the 1996 Reverence album)

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1 minute ago, darknessblade said:

True, with QMK, some people have made keyboards that have a super fast latency, but they don't have as many features.

 

With QMK, you also get VIA/VIAL to modify/change settings, which opens whole other can of worms. as this can make or break tests, since setting A might increase the speed with 0.01ms, but setting B increases it with 2 MS.

 

If they do this for keyboards that support all 3, [like my keyboard Xbows Knight+] they need 3 different tests, as the firmware might have small variations, in terms of response time.

Response time isn't the issue! It's the way the board handles multiple inputs, some keyboards can do multiple inputs per polling cycle and say 4 notes being hit at the same time, actually register on the same millisecond, while some keyboards would space the inputs out by several milliseconds. 

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If that robot has a safe zoning feature, then with just a couple of additional items (2 light curtains, 2 indicator buttons), you can set up 2 zones on that cell so the robot can work on one keyboard while you load up the other, making for a much faster testing rate. 

CPU: Ryzen 5 5600X  | Motherboard: ASROCK B450 pro4 | RAM: 2x16GB  | GPU: MSI NVIDIA RTX 2060 | Cooler: Noctua NH-U9S | SSD: Samsung 980 Evo 1T 

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You should never stand this close to a robot arm while it is powered on, it can seriously harm you or even kill you in a blink of an eye. Safety first guys.

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1 hour ago, Streetguru said:

Forget all those big names, review Keychron first, makers of the best keyboards.

Then compare all of the big names to this single little company, to see if they compete.

Are you guys going to go by price between the companies? or do One Company per video and do the popular options in their line ups?

If you’re referring to in terms of budget, yes keychron makes some good prebuilt boards but they’re far from the best. There’s a whole market for enthusiasts or even average users that make the keychron look like garbage, even in terms of pricing. You can see more on r/mechmarket for a better example. 

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Looks like a damn impressive setup for testing keyboards, but could you include if a wireless keyboard requires its wireless dongle to work, or if it could also use either Bluetooth or a Cabled setup? would be useful to know if its one thats shaped to work in a backpack, but somehow requires a dongle to work wirelessly (I know this isnt common, which is why its important to point it out for those odd edge cases, where presumptions may be incorrect)

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59 minutes ago, CoolGoose said:

Maybe I completely missed it, but it would be nice to also measure how noisy they are.

I love mechanical keyboard click, but hate sound. Think this test will be very useful

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58 minutes ago, darknessblade said:

True, with QMK, some people have made keyboards that have a super fast latency, but they don't have as many features.

 

With QMK, you also get VIA/VIAL to modify/change settings, which opens whole other can of worms. as this can make or break tests, since setting A might increase the speed with 0.01ms, but setting B decreases it with 2 MS.

 

If they do this for keyboards that support all 3, [like my keyboard Xbows Knight+] they need 3 different tests, as the firmware might have small variations, in terms of response time.

Yeah. I'd like to see tests with flashed QMK on "non" QMK keyboards as well. I've managed to reduce the (maybe perceived)latency on the Keychron K8(old non-qmk version) less by flashing it with QMK, enabling 1000hz and reducing debounce to 0

 

I'd also like to see chord split being tested as well: RG Board List - Google Sheets

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1 minute ago, Biola said:

I love mechanical keyboard click, but hate sound. Think this test will be very useful

You might be interested in silent switches although you would have to use a hotswap keyboard

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3 minutes ago, Saith said:

You might be interested in silent switches although you would have to use a hotswap keyboard

Is there switches exists quieter than membrane keyboard?

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1 minute ago, Biola said:

Is there switches exists quieter than membrane keyboard?

Topre is a switch that’s very quiet but they’re built into a board( not hotswap) and then silent switches like bobbagums and u4t silent switches are also very quiet .there are sound tests on YouTube tested on some boards already if you’d like to give them a listen 

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7 minutes ago, Biola said:

I love mechanical keyboard click, but hate sound. Think this test will be very useful

Do you mean the click of BLUE switches?

 

If YES: maybe get something similar to a Cherry White [its a clicky switch with the click sound dampened]

https://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX_White

╔═════════════╦═══════════════════════════════════════════╗
║__________________║ hardware_____________________________________________________ ║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ cpu ______________║ ryzen 9 5900x_________________________________________________ ║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ GPU______________║ ASUS strix LC RX6800xt______________________________________ _║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ motherboard_______ ║ asus crosshair formulla VIII______________________________________║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ memory___________║ CMW32GX4M2Z3600C18 ______________________________________║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ SSD______________║ Samsung 980 PRO 1TB_________________________________________ ║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ PSU______________║ Corsair RM850x 850W _______________________ __________________║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ CPU cooler _______ ║ Be Quiet be quiet! PURE LOOP 360mm ____________________________║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ Case_____________ ║ Thermaltake Core X71 __________________________________________║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ HDD_____________ ║ 2TB and 6TB HDD ____________________________________________║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ Front IO__________   ║ LG blu-ray drive & 3.5" card reader, [trough a 5.25 to 3.5 bay]__________║
╠═════════════╬═══════════════════════════════════════════╣ 
║ OS_______________ ║ Windows 10 PRO______________________________________________║
╚═════════════╩═══════════════════════════════════════════╝

 

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37 minutes ago, Saith said:

Topre is a switch that’s very quiet but they’re built into a board( not hotswap) and then silent switches like bobbagums and u4t silent switches are also very quiet .there are sound tests on YouTube tested on some boards already if you’d like to give them a listen 

Thank's I will try to order examples of different switches and compare with my keyboard.

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It seems there's a ton of work being done on scanning a keyboard to automatically know where to press down. This seems odd to me as couldn't you just make it where you can just go in and put points down where to press. It doesn't seem that would slow down the process much.

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Did LTT not publish a 4k version for this video? Or is YouTube trialing their premium only feature for me

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Linus recruiting all these scientists and engineers for his projects giving me Big Boss and Outer Heaven vibes. When will Linus make a Metal Gear

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