The 4080 is the worst price hike in Nvidia 80 series history

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

1 minute ago, Middcore said:

 

Based on this logic it will be totally cool if Nvidia charges $10,000 for a card in a couple of generations.

 

Do people have 13x the purchasing power they did at the time of the 480? No. Does it cost Nvidia 13x as much to make the 4080 as it cost them to make the 480? Also no (if it did then it wouldn't really be much of an advancement). 

 

At this rate PC gaming will price itself out of existence. 

I think it will plateau around this generation thankfully. PC Gaming is a thriving industry actually. Especially since 2020. It has exploded the last couple years. Look at iphones. Everyone scoffed when the Iphone X was announced at $999. The "premium" iphone has been exactly $999 since then. We all got used to the higher price, which sucks, but at least it hasn't gone up. There's a breakpoint where people won't buy stuff anymore. I think Nvidia over shot it with this gen. If the 16gb 4080 was $899 and the 12gb "4080" was really a 4070 and priced at like $599, no one would blink an eye. Sure, insanely expensive still, but more reasonable and can be justified to an extent with inflation and added costs of the new node etc.

[Middcore]

5 minutes ago, CHICKSLAYA said:

The 3080 absolutely obliterated the 2080ti. Coming in at $699 compared to $1199.

 

Yep, because Nvidia knew they had failed to make the case with the 20-series and they needed to present superficially attractive pricing to pry people away from their Maxwell and Pascal cards.

 

Of course, that shiny MSRP ended up meaning very little very fast.

 

But now that Nvidia has seen how much people are willing to pay for cards because of a shortage, they want to see how much people are willing to pay for cards just because "We're Nvidia and this is how much we want to charge, whattya gonna do buy AMD? GFY." 

 

Don't be surprised to see driver support withdrawn for Maxwell and Pascal soon depending on how invincible Nvidia is feeling, by the way. Maxwell is already 8 years old so they could get away with it without raising eyebrows too much but I can very easily see the rug getting pulled out from under Pascal because "These cards don't support the features gamers care about (IE the features we want gamers to care about."

[Mister Woof]

Ultimately they don't answer to you or me, they answer to the shareholders. They made a shitload of money off of inflated GPU prices during the pandemic/mining craze, and it does not matter if that was anomalous or could be explained by temporary conditions. Literally ALL that matters is that they continue to have growth over last period. 

We as consumers need to show them that pricing like this will result in less growth, not more. Unfortunately, that will not happen.

[Blademaster91]

12 minutes ago, Dedayog said:

Faster raster?  While being faster in one area, overall performance is where we care.  

 

Also, the 4080 shouldn't beat the 3090Ti.  The 2080 didn't beat the 1080Ti.  Did the 3080 beat the 2080Ti?  It might have, I don't know. The point is that USUALLY the next gen card is a +1, not a +2.

 

Step process maximizes sales and revenue.  Not sure if you understand economics of a billion dollar business but I'm fairly sure Nvidia does.  They also understand marketing and consumer mentality.

 

For all your bitching, Nvidia is WINNING the game.  They're not just playing well, they are infact KILLING IT.  Stop being part of the problem and vote with your brain and wallet.

 

Edit:  Not being a dick, just throwing out the necessary vote with your wallet slogan.  It actually works, but I understand that having the "best" is a human psychological problem as well.

The 2080 didn't beat the 1080Ti as the 2080 was a 1080Ti performing card with Tensor cores slapped on it, but with less VRAM, the 20 series being the early adopter RTX card is why some reviewers were recommending the 10 series cards unless you absolutely had to have ray tracing.

And it would be great if voting with your wallet actually worked, Nvidia is killing it so hard they've monopolized the market and have gotten gamers into thinking they NEED to buy an Nvidia card to play games. Although with how expensive the 40 series is, hopefully AMD can compete with RDNA3, and Intel has some decent offerings but their drivers need a lot of work.

[Moonzy]

9 minutes ago, Middcore said:

At this rate PC gaming will price itself out of existence.

nvidia is a for profit company, it will price their cards at the price where it maximises profits

if they can move these cards at $1300, they will, and it signifies that the market is willing to pay for such a product

 

stop whining about product price, and trying to compare it because of the name

either u buy it or you leave it, the price will correct itself according to the market's wish

[Middcore]

1 minute ago, Moonzy said:

nvidia is a for profit company, it will price their cards at the price where it maximises profits

if they can move these cards at $1300, they will, and it signifies that the market is willing to pay for such a product

Yes, that's exactly the point I've been making in this and many other threads. They saw cards sold at over a grand to scalpers, so they decided they didn't want to share profit with scalpers.

 

So stop trying to make these prices sound justified based on performance comparisons that are devoid of context. If they could get people to pay more for less performance they would so it's pointless to say "But look at the performance compared to ten years ago." We should all fucking hope the performance is way better than ten years ago, Nvidia doesn't need a pat on the back for that. 

[Mister Woof]

I do find the big difference between comparing GPUs and phones is that while Apple offers an expensive flagship, they also offer a very solid budget phone such as the SE that ends up getting much of the same technology at a much lower price. In this case of budget phones, it gets the benefit of the flagship sales. 

 

Instead of Apple simply continuing to sell cheap phones cheap, they are now selling good phones for less.

 

In contrast to nVidia GPUs, they are either simply not making "cheap phones" at all, or making "cheap phones" still cheap, but also slow. Example being RTX 3050. We continually are paying the same (or more) price for the same performance as previous generations in the lower end segment, while in phones, we're paying similar for budget phones and getting way more for our dollars that shares tech with the flagships.

 

What I'm saying is, there is currently no nVidia iPhone SE or Pixel 6a. It's just all flagship.

 

This is of course where AMD and Intel step in. nVidia is posturing itself as the premier GPU brand and thus buying mindshare. It doesn't actually matter how well it performs, it has the name on it. Part of not having a real budget line helps to create this illusion. Again, the 6900XT/6950XT proves it's not about performance.

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

7 minutes ago, Shimmy Gummi said:

Ultimately they don't answer to you or me, they answer to the shareholders. They made a shitload of money off of inflated GPU prices during the pandemic/mining craze, and it does not matter if that was anomalous or could be explained by temporary conditions. Literally ALL that matters is that they continue to have growth over last period. 

We as consumers need to show them that pricing like this will result in less growth, not more. Unfortunately, that will not happen.

I think it might, actually. The 4090 will sell like hot cakes but both "4080"s are obscenely overpriced to the point I think they won't sell. Look at Nvidia subreddit, Buildapc subreddit, ANYWHERE literally. They don't care about RDNA3, they don't. They know these 4080's are horribly priced. I think it's on purpose until they sell through their enormous 3000 series stock. Who would buy a 3080 at $699 if the 4080 was $699 and way faster? I think *eventuallyTM the 4080 16gb will settle in at the price the 12gb is going for initially, the 4080 12gb will get phased out entirely, and then they will finish the rest of their product stack. If RDNA3 was going to demolish them, they would know it by now. They are competing against a boatload of ampere cards. That's their real competition

[Mister Woof]

1 minute ago, CHICKSLAYA said:

I think it might, actually. The 4090 will sell like hot cakes but both "4080"s are obscenely overpriced to the point I think they won't sell. Look at Nvidia subreddit, Buildapc subreddit, ANYWHERE literally. They don't care about RDNA3, they don't. They know these 4080's are horribly priced. I think it's on purpose until they sell through their enormous 3000 series stock. Who would buy a 3080 at $699 if the 4080 was $699 and way faster? I think *eventuallyTM the 4080 16gb will settle in at the price the 12gb is going for initially, the 4080 12gb will get phased out entirely, and then they will finish the rest of their product stack. If RDNA3 was going to demolish them, they would know it by now. They are competing against a boatload of ampere cards. That's their real competition

I want to believe but let's be honest, how many times do we have people come onto this forum to ask about GPU advise and get really freakin' weird and combative when we recommend a 6600 over a 3050? That's just the ones who post on forums, which is a teeny tiny segment of consumers. The vast majority will go "nvidia good, amd bad" and then buy.

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

2 minutes ago, Shimmy Gummi said:

I want to believe but let's be honest, how many times do we have people come onto this forum to ask about GPU advise and get really freakin' weird and combative when we recommend a 6600 over a 3050? That's just the ones who post on forums, which is a teeny tiny segment of consumers. The vast majority will go "nvidia good, amd bad" and then buy.

Oh I agree, 100%. But no one is going to buy a "4080" 12gb at $899 when a used 3090ti will be faster for cheaper slightly used. Hell, you can get a used 3060ti for like $300 bucks. Sure, it was probably mined on. But it doesn't have the hot memory issues of used 3080s or 3090s especially. The 3080 is mostly fine. It's the regular non ti 90 that you want to avoid used due to all the memory being on one side.

 

Their competition is the absolute glut of extra 3000 series cards they have. Not even counting the used mining ones. They have a bunch in storage. I feel like they will just blow them up and use it as a tax writeoff

[Middcore]

Just now, Shimmy Gummi said:

Again, the 6900XT/6950XT proves it's not about performance.

 

Nope. It's about wanting the card you saw in the sponsored fantasy build by some YT/Twitch influencer, or thinking 10% better encoding will make you the next YT/Twitch influencer (which is itself largely a scam, side note), or the belief that maybe some game which hasn't even been announced yet will come out during the lifespan of the card where DLSS and RTX are essential. 

 

Oh, and let's not forget "My father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate had an AMD card once and said the drivers were bad and I am so susceptible to FUD my name may as well be Elmer."

[Mister Woof]

Just now, CHICKSLAYA said:

Oh I agree, 100%. But no one is going to buy a "4080" 12gb at $899 when a used 3090ti will be faster for cheaper slightly used. Hell, you can get a used 3060ti for like $300 bucks. Sure, it was probably mined on. But it doesn't have the hot memory issues of used 3080s or 3090s especially. The 3080 is mostly fine. It's the regular non ti 90 that you want to avoid used due to all the memory being on one side.

 

Their competition is the absolute glut of extra 3000 series cards they have. Not even counting the used mining ones. They have a bunch in storage. I feel like they will just blow them up and use it as a tax writeoff

eh, lots of folks have an aversion to buying used. We're talking about people who generally will look at userbenchmark at the most to determine what to buy, or a bottleneck calculator, or trust 100% in 1st party benchmarks.

 

We have to remember guys like us are very tiny minority of the actual market

[Middcore]

Just now, CHICKSLAYA said:

Oh I agree, 100%. But no one is going to buy a "4080" 12gb at $899 when a used 3090ti will be faster for cheaper slightly used.

 

I think you greatly overestimate the number of people who will even consider buying used PC parts. 

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

Just now, Middcore said:

 

I think you greatly overestimate the number of people who will even consider buying used PC parts. 

Maybe I do lol. I am an absolute savage with buying used PC parts. Literally anything I can. Only exception being PSU and AIO cooler. If you don't purchase one of those new and it takes out your whole system like those parts can, you're kinda screwed. 

[Mister Woof]

Just now, Middcore said:

 

I think you greatly overestimate the number of people who will even consider buying used PC parts. 

Yep. I'm kind of one of them unless I know the person or its just that good a deal. 

 

Also, sometimes even people "in the know" can fall to internal biases too. For example take myself: Early 2021, 11th gen intel was about to be launched, Zen3 was just out, I was debating between 10900k and 5900x. Ultimately chose the 10900k because reasons, and looking back I regret it.

 

Now I have to tell myself not to do the same thing again in the next few months.

[ZetZet]

5 minutes ago, Middcore said:

 

Nope. It's about wanting the card you saw in the sponsored fantasy build by some YT/Twitch influencer, or thinking 10% better encoding will make you the next YT/Twitch influencer (which is itself largely a scam, side note),

Which part is the scam? Influencers are a scam or the dream of becoming an influencer? Because we are on a forum which was founded by an influencer. 

[ewitte]

Personally, I'd never buy either 4080 at these prices.  I'll get either a 4090 or 7900xt depending on 4090 stock.  If they don't have it in stock before I can get a 7900xt I'll go AMD.  I was thinking about keeping it and skipping a generation, but the next model will likely be 2024 and 2025 is the ETA for the next crypto bull market.  I may still get something if something is worth mining before the shortages come back.

[Blademaster91]

10 minutes ago, CHICKSLAYA said:

I think it might, actually. The 4090 will sell like hot cakes but both "4080"s are obscenely overpriced to the point I think they won't sell. Look at Nvidia subreddit, Buildapc subreddit, ANYWHERE literally. They don't care about RDNA3, they don't. They know these 4080's are horribly priced. I think it's on purpose until they sell through their enormous 3000 series stock. Who would buy a 3080 at $699 if the 4080 was $699 and way faster? I think *eventuallyTM the 4080 16gb will settle in at the price the 12gb is going for initially, the 4080 12gb will get phased out entirely, and then they will finish the rest of their product stack. If RDNA3 was going to demolish them, they would know it by now. They are competing against a boatload of ampere cards. That's their real competition

Nvidia has so much of the market they don't care about AMD at all, they're competing against themselves so Nvidia can just increase prices and people will buy them anyway, people complained about the price of the 20 series cards but everyone still bought them.

The thing I find annoying is when AMD brings in something competitive people have excuses like but it doesn't have RTX or DLSS, even though most games don't support RTX, and if you don't need RTX you're less likely to need to use resolution scaling to have a playable game.

[Mister Woof]

Just now, ZetZet said:

Which part is the scam? Influencers are a scam or the dream of becoming an influencer? Because we are on a forum which was founded by an influencer. 

I mean, come on. For every Linus there's thousands (tens of thousands?) of not-Linuses

[ewitte]

3 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Nvidia has so much of the market they don't care about AMD at all, they're competing against themselves so Nvidia can just increase prices and people will buy them anyway, people complained about the price of the 20 series cards but everyone still bought them.

The thing I find annoying is when AMD brings in something competitive people have excuses like but it doesn't have RTX or DLSS, even though most games don't support RTX, and if you don't need RTX you're less likely to need to use resolution scaling to have a playable game.

Companies bigger than Nvidia have gone out of business for this exact same type of Ego.  It's not overnight, it is a small percentage at a time.  We will see based on the availability at launch.  I hear they want to price gouge as many people as they can before they get competition and then reduce prices after a bunch of 3000 series sells out.

[ZetZet]

1 minute ago, Shimmy Gummi said:

I mean, come on. For every Linus there's thousands (tens of thousands?) of not-Linuses

Oh, that's obvious, but if no one tries no one makes it. I think buying gear is not entirely what makes you a better influencer however. 

[Moonzy]

20 minutes ago, Middcore said:

So stop trying to make these prices sound justified based on performance comparisons that are devoid of context.

lets take equal price products then

would u say a $350 gpu from last gen would beat a gpu priced $350 next gen?

just buy whatever makes the most sense to you
nvidia is allowed to launch whatever they want if they see fit, and there obviously are target audience for that

i would agree that there should be GPU in all price points to allow for options

wanna spend $4000 on a GPU that consumes 2000W? go ahead

wanna spend $150 on a GPU? sure

 

as long as perf per dollar is going up, i dont really care otherwise

[Mister Woof]

6 minutes ago, ZetZet said:

Oh, that's obvious, but if no one tries no one makes it. I think buying gear is not entirely what makes you a better influencer however. 

There was some hyperbole in there, but I think the point is people often buy the name. Nvidia is associated with success, their products are associated with being the best and premium, so they often are chosen regardless of the reality. Influencers have a job in the first place because obviously it works.

 

Edit: Before anyone comes in and asks me why I have a 3080 if I hate them so much..it was 2020 and I got the first MSRP 3080/6800XT I could find. AMD cards were really scarce early on.

[ZetZet]

Just now, Shimmy Gummi said:

There was some hyperbole in there, but I think the point is people often buy the name. Nvidia is associated with success, their products are associated with being the best and premium, so they often are chosen regardless of the reality. Influencers have a job in the first place because obviously it works.

I personally had an ATI card before which I do remember having to troubleshoot pretty often, especially after new game launches, but after I bought a 760 then 1060 I never had any issues. So I am fully willing to overpay for Nvidia, if it's not an insane amount. 

[Middcore]

13 minutes ago, ZetZet said:

Which part is the scam? Influencers are a scam or the dream of becoming an influencer? Because we are on a forum which was founded by an influencer. 

 

The dream of becoming one.

 

A few months ago Sodapoppin caused a minor furor because he said people who have 50 viewers on Twitch should just give up. But if you have 50 viewers you are like in the top 0.1% of all Twitch streamers. The mega-streamers who kids aspire to be are mostly people who have been doing it for years. Guys like CohhCarnage and DansGaming (nothing against them) are basically middle-aged now. Who are the new personalities breaking through? Twitch and YT are past their peak as potential paths to success and stardom, I think. Twitch just cut the pay for its top-tier creators, anyway, because Amazon isn't making "enough" money from it. As harsh as he was, I still respect Sodapoppin's POV more than the scammy "Be a megastar streamer like me just by following these steps" "masterclass" by Ninja he was responding to. 

 

As for the "But we're on a forum founded by an influencer!" point... yes, but, first, consider that Linus rose to prominence years ago. Second, I'm clearly not saying influencers don't exist, I'm saying its unrealistic almost to the point of being predatory to market to people on the premise they can become one. If there was a company that was telling people "Buy our product and you can become a movie star" the existence of movie stars wouldn't make that marketing any less shitty. Linus didn't get where he is because he bought certain hardware.