Bye bye lightning.... HELLO USB-C || Long-awaited common charger for mobile devices will be a reality in 2024

[WhitetailAni]

21 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

Replacing a port isn't that difficult on a phone

Oh it's very difficult on iPhones - it's mounted to the back of the case so you have to pull out the logic board, battery , speakers, etc. I'm not replacing the water damaged port in my SE 1 for this reason - it's a cheap part, only $20, but it's so annoying it's not worth it.

[Donut417]

 

2 hours ago, Dracarris said:

n both the services and the phone/down payment. You'll pay for at least 24 months for both the phone and the services.

 

There is no leaving earlier.

You can pay the device off at any time. You don’t have to stay for the full 24 months. If you actually read the terms that’s what they say. If you discontinue service you are responsible for the amount owed on the device. That’s at least how T Mobile does it in the US. Because the first and only device I financed thru them I put 50% of the cost down and ended up paying it off early, because I was able to make a direct payment on the device. 

[Stahlmann]

3 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

This is a point that I've been trying to make that people seem to ignore, the lightning connector is more robust from a design point of view on the phone side. 

And no connector is as robust as just using a wireless charging pad, which was my point.

[Dracarris]

1 hour ago, Donut417 said:

You can pay the device off at any time. You don’t have to stay for the full 24 months. If you actually read the terms that’s what they say. If you discontinue service you are responsible for the amount owed on the device.

Well that's not how it works here but even if so: Then pay off the phone and they get the full amount for the phone still, just at a different point in time. The subscription/service contract still stays for the minimum duration, otherwise I don't get how carriers do bussiness in the US. Here if you sign up you are in for the duration of the contract, period.

2 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

At a certain point it I think became about "security" of the device.  If someone signs up to get a phone but the credit card was fake then they are out the phone.  At least if the device was locked, they could detect it on their network and know who just purchased a stolen phone (so to that extent they can "recover" it).

Hm okay all these card shenanigans aren't a thing in Europe. You have to sign up with ID and a solvency check, then they usually just do direct debit of the amount owned from your bank account at the end of every month.

[wanderingfool2]

1 hour ago, Stahlmann said:

And no connector is as robust as just using a wireless charging pad, which was my point.

Wireless charging pads overall are quite inefficient.  If you place it even slightly off from optimal you can be almost double the amount of charge...or if you place it really wrong, you could be getting no charge and still have the charger active (and thus wasting power...ask me how I know ).

 

One could go the iPhone approach and put powerful magnets in place to get perfect alignment...but that creates an issue in that you are now using rare earth metals...also if you decide to store your credit card/id on the back don't expect the magnetic strip to work anymore.  So that in itself creates more waste eventually.

 

26 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

Hm okay all these card shenanigans aren't a thing in Europe. You have to sign up with ID and a solvency check, then they usually just do direct debit of the amount owned from your bank account at the end of every month.

I think in Canada they are supposed to be checking ID's, but from my experience it's not really a thing that is done.  It's surprising how front line workers can be manipulated into things still.  Not to go too far off topic, but the failure to check (or just believe fake ID's) is actually a major issue in NA [where there are instances of someone going in saying their phone was stolen so they get a new sim card and then use it to take over peoples accounts]

[suicidalfranco]

10 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

And no connector is as robust as just using a wireless charging pad, which was my point.

Yeah and all you have to sacrifice is 40% more power, at best (around 60% at worst) , to do the same thing as outdated wire.

Funny how the company that is so keen on being "pro green" , "mah earth" , "lower co2" is so adamant on pushing the most wasteful of energy deliveries just to be sure they have some form of proprietary solution they can use to hold an accessory certification monopoly

[Dracarris]

10 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

Yeah and all you have to sacrifice is 40% more power, at best (around 60% at worst) , to do the same thing as outdated wire.

Funny how the company that is so keen on being "pro green" , "mah earth" , "lower co2" is so adamant on pushing the most wasteful of energy deliveries just to be sure they have some form of proprietary solution they can use to hold an accessory certification monopoly

Charging a smartphone is pretty negligible in comparison to a regular household consumption.

And Apples wireless charging solution adheres to normal standards (Qi or however they are called). Nothing proprietary to see here.

 

Take off your tinfoil hat, USB-C is coming to iphones anyways. Not that it would change a thing for you regarding the rampant hate train towards a Californian company you're sitting on.

[RedRound2]

13 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

Yeah and all you have to sacrifice is 40% more power, at best (around 60% at worst) , to do the same thing as outdated wire.

Funny how the company that is so keen on being "pro green" , "mah earth" , "lower co2" is so adamant on pushing the most wasteful of energy deliveries just to be sure they have some form of proprietary solution they can use to hold an accessory certification monopoly

What in the world is proprietary of Apple's wireless charging capability on the iPhone? It was always Qi standard.

How low are you all going to stoop just to spread some sort of narrative?

 

Also as @Dracarrissaid, the wasted energy on a wireless charging a phone is quite negligible on the broad scale of things (like you know leaving a fan or a light or an AC on in an unoccupied room). And Apple has made an effort to minimize it since they have MagSafe magnetic system in place to align the coils properly - which literally no other phones have. But of course, let's all pretend none of these things exist and Apple is evil

[suicidalfranco]

13 hours ago, Dracarris said:

Charging a smartphone is pretty negligible in comparison to a regular household consumption.

And Apples wireless charging solution adheres to normal standards (Qi or however they are called). Nothing proprietary to see here.

 

Take off your tinfoil hat, USB-C is coming to iphones anyways. Not that it would change a thing for you regarding the rampant hate train towards a Californian company you're sitting on.

https://mfi.apple.com/en/how-it-works.html

 

10 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

What in the world is proprietary of Apple's wireless charging capability on the iPhone? It was always Qi standard.

How low are you all going to stoop just to spread some sort of narrative?

 

Also as @Dracarrissaid, the wasted energy on a wireless charging a phone is quite negligible on the broad scale of things (like you know leaving a fan or a light or an AC on in an unoccupied room). And Apple has made an effort to minimize it since they have MagSafe magnetic system in place to align the coils properly - which literally no other phones have. But of course, let's all pretend none of these things exist and Apple is evil

https://mfi.apple.com/en/how-it-works.html

 

 

 

[suicidalfranco]

Oh! so now it's okay to forget things on? thanks apple. will do just that from now on

[RedRound2]

1 hour ago, suicidalfranco said:

https://mfi.apple.com/en/how-it-works.html

 

https://mfi.apple.com/en/how-it-works.html

 

So, you have a problem with MagSafe certification existing? Even though it literally affects no one if you choose to not buy a MagSafe labelled accessory and you can use any dollar store wireless chargers to charge your iPhone?

 

Heck anyone can even attach magnets to their charger and just choose not to go under the certification and still take advantage of iPhone's magsafe system - if anyone wanted to.

How much of a confused individual are you? 

 

And let's just casually ignore all the points I brought up for your dumb theories.

 

For every other sane individual reading the comment and wondering what MagSafe certification is, it exists to ensure quality compliance for the end user who do prefer it (something I wish USB C had). It specified the kind of magnets and the magnetic strengths that need to be used. The accessories should not be too easy or too hard to remove, stuff like that. 

[suicidalfranco]

3 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

you have a problem with MagSafe certification existing?

no i have a problem with fanboys calling me a lier when what i said

On 10/7/2022 at 8:25 AM, suicidalfranco said:

just to be sure they have some form of proprietary solution they can use to hold an accessory certification monopoly

is factually correct as proven by

1 hour ago, suicidalfranco said:

https://mfi.apple.com/en/how-it-works.html

 

https://mfi.apple.com/en/how-it-works.html

 

apple themselves

6 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

how much of a confused individual are you?

you're clearly the one being confused and moving the goal post

6 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

or every other sane induvidualrs reading the comment and wondering what MagSafe certification is, it exists to ensure quality compliance for the end user who do prefer it (something I wish USB C had). It specified the kind of magnets and the magnetic strengths that need to be used. The accessories should not be too easy or too hard to remove, stuff like that. 

or as i defined it

On 10/7/2022 at 8:25 AM, suicidalfranco said:

just to be sure they have some form of proprietary solution they can use to hold an accessory certification monopoly

 

[Dracarris]

2 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

 

https://mfi.apple.com/en/how-it-works.htm

 

That only affects Magsafe and not wireless charging per se which is plain Qi.

 

Regular Magsafe (for Macbooks) has nothing to do with Qi or any form of wireless charging, at all. Contacts touch and Magsafe is there for keeping them together.

 

For Wireless Qi charging, Magsafe is an optional extra for perfect alignment of phone and charger for max efficiency.

1 hour ago, suicidalfranco said:

is factually correct as proven by

So you might want to dial it down a bit.

[wanderingfool2]

20 hours ago, huilun02 said:

I hope this translates to more USB PD laptops. Im kinda sick of barrel plug chargers. Want to carry a single GaN charger and cable for everything portable

That's all said and good, until the charger decides to break...frying your laptop...then since you don't realize it's your charger it fries your cell phone as well.

 

Seriously, I've seen a charger fail before (admittedly it was a 19 v barrel plug charger), but it failed in a way that it would randomly blast out wonky power and fry the device it was attached to

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

22 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

Heck anyone can even attach magnets to their charger and just choose not to go under the certification and still take advantage of iPhone's magsafe system - if anyone wanted to.

How much of a confused individual are you? 

Imagine those MagSafe compatible phone mounts that don't charge, just mounts your phone to the car dash or windshield, requires MFI certification. What a poop storm that would be. 

[wanderingfool2]

23 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

A charger breaking is a problem with the charger, not the device being charged or type of charging port used

 

1 hour ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Seriously, I've seen a charger fail before (admittedly it was a 19 v barrel plug charger), but it failed in a way that it would randomly blast out wonky power and fry the device it was attached to

If I were to be carrying around something (if it breaks or otherwise) I'd rather it be something lighter and more compact than a laptop charging brick

As more and more devices start to use the same ports (like laptops) that demand more power like 100W the more often you will likely see those smaller wall warts fail...especially when you start getting the "cheaper" ones that skimp on the internal components.

 

While it's true that it could happen already with iPhones/Androids my point is that having even higher powered devices sharing the same charger could really be a recipe for disaster (as you now are asking it to deliver a lot more power).  There's a reason the power bricks on some laptops are as large as they are.

[RedRound2]

On 10/8/2022 at 1:24 PM, suicidalfranco said:

no i have a problem with fanboys calling me a lier when what i said

is factually correct as proven by

apple themselves

you're clearly the one being confused and moving the goal post

or as i defined it

 

What goal post did I move? Do they have some monopolistic grab on the market with respect to wireless charging? No, not even close. Anyone and everyone is free to bypass the system.

 

Does this certification need to exist? I would argue yes, because last thing I want is my phone falling off a supposedly magsafe car mount when I apply little too much breaks. MagSafe certification prevents that.

 

So no, whatever nonsense you claim here doesnt' actually exist and you are basically trolling because "Apple" like a religious zealot

On 10/9/2022 at 11:18 AM, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

Imagine those MagSafe compatible phone mounts that don't charge, just mounts your phone to the car dash or windshield, requires MFI certification. What a poop storm that would be. 

Yeah, as the above example, for an accessory like that, its better to get MagSafe certified as you would like Apple to ensure that the device isn't too hard to pick up while remaining strong enough to remain attached to the mount while driving. 

 

And as mentioned before, anyone can make magnets mounted car mount, just that they wouldn't be allowed to call it magsafe.

 

Somehow, I have to explain these basic concepts to supposedly grown ass people living life

[Kisai]

On 10/8/2022 at 11:20 PM, wanderingfool2 said:

While it's true that it could happen already with iPhones/Androids my point is that having even higher powered devices sharing the same charger could really be a recipe for disaster (as you now are asking it to deliver a lot more power).  There's a reason the power bricks on some laptops are as large as they are.

You're honestly not making any solid argument here. The reason power bricks are as big and and bulky as they are, is because they can't be as big as a ATX power supply. They have to fit in someone's carryon bag. 

 

As it is, laptops that draw more than 65 watts, could not be used in gasoline operated cars because the inverters would be overloaded. 

 

You're basically coming to the wrong conclusion here. The problem in these is not USB-C, the problem is we didn't standardize on a standard DC power connector 40 years ago.

 

So you messes like this:

and this:

Like this is more likely to kill your  laptop when the polarity or voltage are incorrect.

[wanderingfool2]

48 minutes ago, Kisai said:

You're honestly not making any solid argument here. The reason power bricks are as big and and bulky as they are, is because they can't be as big as a ATX power supply. They have to fit in someone's carryon bag. 

Uhm, do you even understand what I'm saying?

 

The guy was literally talking about having a single charger used for laptop and charging phones.  The form factor of some of the USB-C PD for laptops does not give me confidence in their longevity (especially the more generic ones that people are undoubtedly will purchase as people are drawn to the cheaper price).

 

As a result, pushing the wattage limit of a wall wart will have a higher likelyhood of messing it up (thermals and such)...once that fails, if it failed in the same way as my 19V barrel plug one, it will randomly fry the equipment attached to it.

 

55 minutes ago, Kisai said:

You're basically coming to the wrong conclusion here. The problem in these is not USB-C, the problem is we didn't standardize on a standard DC power connector 40 years ago.

I'm not coming to the wrong conclusion.  My conclusion is that they shouldn't be forcing it on people, as it's effectively just an anti-lightning connector.  The lightning connector is just better than USB-C for a phone for most people in general.  Like I've said, USB-C has caused phones to come back to me a lot more than lightning has.  (Higher requests for new lightning cables)

[Arika]

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

what an absolute abomination this thing is

[darknessblade]

3 hours ago, Arika S said:

what an absolute abomination this thing is

That is just a normal travel adapter.

 

which is because multiple countries have different standard sockets, and voltages.

 

Nowadays many appliances are multi-voltage supported, so they can both work on 110V and 220V.

but in the old days people would plug a 110V appliance in a 220V socket, and BOOM.

 

This is also why Linus often uses their "High voltage" 220V power-socket to test out products that need a higher Amperage on the plug

[Thaldor]

On 10/9/2022 at 9:20 AM, wanderingfool2 said:

As more and more devices start to use the same ports (like laptops) that demand more power like 100W the more often you will likely see those smaller wall warts fail...especially when you start getting the "cheaper" ones that skimp on the internal components.

 

While it's true that it could happen already with iPhones/Androids my point is that having even higher powered devices sharing the same charger could really be a recipe for disaster (as you now are asking it to deliver a lot more power).  There's a reason the power bricks on some laptops are as large as they are.

If you buy a wall wart size of a overgrown peanut from China through some shady webstore with zero footprint within your EU country so the store isn't at all even under the threat of getting their products randomly tested by government body for the claimed safety and it's from manufacturer called Zenolo or some other "change few letters from known brand" and you paid shit nothing for it and you expect it to power your laptop... I will quote Terry Pratchett's The Hogfather:

 

Quote

You can't give her that!' she screamed. 'It's not safe!'
IT'S A SWORD, said the Hogfather. THEY'RE NOT MEANT TO BE SAFE.
'She's a child!' shouted Crumley.
IT'S EDUCATIONAL.
'What if she cuts herself?'
THAT WILL BE AN IMPORTANT LESSON.

 

If you omit every single red flag that people have for couple decades now tried to make obvious to even the most uneducated and limited in intelligence person to learn to spot and they still cannot do that, maybe they learn after their house and family burn down. USB powered laptops have been a thing for a while now and AFAIK all incidences with things burning have been because someone was still stupid enough to buy PingPong 1/100th of a price crap from a store that is very well known to sell crap that is dangerous.

 

If the device and the charger are made by the specs and well connecting a device wanting 100W from a charger that can only give 25W isn't a problem because the charger will only give the maximum it can and if it's not enough for the device, the device will most likely run out of battery because the charger cannot charge it fast enough. USB-PD standard is 5V 0.1-3.0A with maximum of 15W, that is the base anything over will be under fast charging and the charger and the device need to have chips to negotiate the used charging power which can be anything from 5V 3.0A to 48V 5.0A (240W), if a charger has a chip that announces it can give that 240W but the construction of the garbage cannot handle it, that is non-standard product and as so it's a shitty product which manufacturer and retailer hopefully gets a slap on their wrists and if continued are given enough fines to go bankrupt.

[kumicota]

On 10/9/2022 at 3:20 AM, wanderingfool2 said:

As more and more devices start to use the same ports (like laptops) that demand more power like 100W the more often you will likely see those smaller wall warts fail...especially when you start getting the "cheaper" ones that skimp on the internal components.

That's your fault them not them for buying a cheap chinesium charger instead of a good one.

 

USB-PD and QC. If you have ever used any phone with USB-PD or QC3 with a usb cable that the data lines don't work, you would see that the PD/QC would stop to work and the device would charge in 5v/2A.

 

Both specifications needs that the device asks for the power ratings available(like 12v/3A, 18v/2A), data to monitor the cable resistence and more so that you don't burn the cable, the phone or the charge blows

[wanderingfool2]

2 hours ago, kumicota said:

That's your fault them not them for buying a cheap chinesium charger instead of a good one.

Walk into normal person house and you will see people using non-name branded name products...even laptop manufacturers

 

Also the 19V barrel that failed came from a 1st party provider...so yea, 1st party products still can fail (especially if you end up constantly getting it close to red-lining it, or if they happen to be in an area with no airflow and tight conditions...ie behind a desk)

3 hours ago, kumicota said:

USB-PD and QC. If you have ever used any phone with USB-PD or QC3 with a usb cable that the data lines don't work, you would see that the PD/QC would stop to work and the device would charge in 5v/2A.

 

Both specifications needs that the device asks for the power ratings available(like 12v/3A, 18v/2A), data to monitor the cable resistence and more so that you don't burn the cable, the phone or the charge blows

And the the 19V barrel had all the necessary testing done on it.  UL certified, tested etc...components fail.

 

Also, the whole law being about no more e-waste by having an universal charger and cable...people are going to naturally start assuming they can use any of those cables they see in the store...even the ones that clearly pose as a fire hazard (because the general consumer isn't informed enough to know)

[tikker]

  

On 10/5/2022 at 8:30 PM, wanderingfool2 said:

I doubt this will actually change those companies mentalities...and if it does, it will mean they now have to likely sign up and license.  So congratulations, we have a more expensive product.  The other factor being, it will give an excuse for companies to no longer provide any charger...because "everyone has a charger" mentality.

Good, because that's the point. We can't have it all. Twice as much for half the price would be great, but often not the reality. I'm fine with paying a bit more for standardisation and proper cables. Unless you mean companies will completely stop any production of chargers, in which case I think that's overexaggerating. Production of chargers will still exist, it'll just (have to) scale down if this is successful.

On 10/5/2022 at 8:30 PM, wanderingfool2 said:

The only thing that effectively changes on a large scale is it makes it so that lightning cords are no longer a thing.  The cord, that's all the e-waste they would realistically save...a cord which if they wanted to they could just setup a recycling program.  The lightning connector was a better solution (aside from the speed...but that's more about the iPhone not supporting it..they could effectively still implement USB-C USB 2.0 version).  The lightning connector was just the better version for mobile devices...the cable breaks instead of the phone.

I'm happy to accept the lightning connector itself was better from a physical point of view, but can it match USB in terms of data transfer and display capabilities? If it wasn't kept proprietary maybe it would have won out, except that was probably never going to happen.

On 10/5/2022 at 8:30 PM, wanderingfool2 said:

Adding second ports or adding a second high power port (while working with USB)...that's going to create more e-waste.

I think there are more low power devices floating around than high-power gaming laptops. There's a lot you can power with 240 W, so I think in the end we may have a net benefit. Time and data will tell.

On 10/5/2022 at 8:30 PM, wanderingfool2 said:

Some of the devices I have even utilize USB-A cables to be more robust...that is no longer a thing according to this standard.

What device are we talking about? Was it truly to be sturdier, or simply because it has always had USB-A and there's no particular drive to change it? I accept there are probably sturdier connectors out there, but I genuinely wonder sometimes what people are doing to their devices that make all of these connectors such supposedly such bad designs. Maybe a breaking point test that measures how much force connectors can take would make for a nice video. I've had my S10e for 3 years or so now, carried around every day, connected to a charger at least every other day on average, had a few yanks while on the carger and the USB-C connectors are still fine. Laptop uses USB-C, also had some scary yanks on the cord, but both charger and ports are rock solid still (much better than my S10e, which has had some play from the beginning, I readily admit that).

On 10/5/2022 at 8:30 PM, wanderingfool2 said:

Overall, I'm against them forcing companies to utilize the USB-C cabling.  I'm okay if they allow for USB-PD under the concept that if their connector is powered by USB they need to conform to it, but never restricting even the connector type.

I don't think that would change anything about the current situation. Apple would have their own stuff and there would be little to no active reason to switch to a harmonised charging interface.

2 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Also, the whole law being about no more e-waste by having an universal charger and cable...people are going to naturally start assuming they can use any of those cables they see in the store...even the ones that clearly pose as a fire hazard (because the general consumer isn't informed enough to know)

To a certain extent, that is again the goal. The intent is that it will pretty much be matching numbers for consumers. Brick says 60 W? Buy a cable that says 60 W. It should be as simple as that if marketing goes well, and manufacturers stick to what they're told to advertise. The shitty cable argument is tangential. Those are not a new nor a USB-C problem. In my experience people also think a bit more when it is about expensive devices such as phones or laptops. Sure, some people will still be idiots and think a 1200 W PSU they got for $15 is fine for powering their brand new rig with a 4090, but we don't consider that the fault of Seasonic or SFX do we? It's a fair concern, but there has to be personal accountability in my opinion.

On 10/9/2022 at 6:56 AM, wanderingfool2 said:

That's all said and good, until the charger decides to break...frying your laptop...then since you don't realize it's your charger it fries your cell phone as well.

 

Seriously, I've seen a charger fail before (admittedly it was a 19 v barrel plug charger), but it failed in a way that it would randomly blast out wonky power and fry the device it was attached to

I can't remember a charger that failed on me in a sneaky assassin way, or any way really. I have, however, experienced manufacturers use the exact same barrel jack, but substantially different voltages, for similar devices resulting in me releasing the magic smoke of one of them. Now that's just me, but unless we start hearing story after story of peoples USB-C devices mysteriously dying from chargers, I'm not convinced that this would be a serious issue.