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Ancient Upgrade (Assisting the Poor)

Trexal
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Go to solution Solved by Needfuldoer,

That GPU is definitely the weakest point of your current PC. I'd start by upgrading that to the best one you can afford with your budget. Even if your current CPU will "bottleneck" it, you'll be able to take it with you when you upgrade the rest of your system later.

Posted

A challenging upgrade here for you!

 

Budget: Circa £100 - £200

 

Games: Current Divinity of Sins 2, MMOs (WoW & FFO), Simulations (Sims 4). I do not play AAA titles; I tend to buy games 4+ years old or on offer.

 

Other Uses: Business such as emailing, word processing, tax filing, and internet browsing (research). Novel writing.

 

Setup:
Computer 1 - Main Monitor - SSD M.2 - Windows 10 Pro - Barebones Gaming
Computer 1 - Main Monitor - SSD 2.5 - " " - Untwinked Setup
Computer 2 - Secondary Monitor - Discord and In-Game Web browsing

 

Rules:
1) I play one game at a time.
2) Anything that is not the game itself goes on the other SSD or the other computer.
3) I am either writing, working or gaming but never simultaneously.
4) I play most titles on lower/lowest graphic settings; I favour performance over quality - you don't miss what you never had!

 

System Hardware (of the upgrade machine):
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit*
Intel i5 4690K @ 3.5Ghz (Overclocked)
Dual 16GB DDR3 (HyperX HX318C10FBK2/16)
ASRock Z97M OC Formula (Broken M.2 Screw Mount)
ASUS VP228 (1920X1080@60Hz)*
GeForce GTX 750 Ti (ASUS) (Overclocked @ core +110MHz, memory +550 MHz)
SSD 970 EVO Plus 250GB (M.2)*
SSD 850 EVO 250GB (SATA)*
Tagan BZ Series 600W
Fractal Define S*
Cool Master Hyper
x2 Case fans Intake & Exhaust configuration*

*Ideally would like to keep

 

Problems:
This system is so dated now that some games are struggling on low settings, and the graphics card is maxed out.

 

Purchase Options:
Second-hand or previous edition hardware is all fine. Free graphic card offers will get a fan girl response.

 

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Posted
  • Solution

That GPU is definitely the weakest point of your current PC. I'd start by upgrading that to the best one you can afford with your budget. Even if your current CPU will "bottleneck" it, you'll be able to take it with you when you upgrade the rest of your system later.

Dell owns my soul.

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Honestly, the machine is really not bad.  RAM is a good amount, no HDD bullshit, OC'd 4690K is a good chip, Fractal case is good stuff, etc.

 

@Needfuldoer has it, look into the best GPU you can get and the machine should serve you well for your needs.

Emma : i9 9900K 5.1Ghz - Gigabyte AORUS 1080Ti - Gigabyte AORUS Z370 Gaming 5 - G. Skill Ripjaws V 32GB 3200Mhz - 750 EVO 512GB + 2x 860 EVO 1TB (RAID 0) - EVGA SuperNova 650 P2 - Thermaltake Water 3.0 Ultimate 360mm - Fractal Design Define R6 - AOC AGON 35" 3440x1440 100Hz - Mackie CR5BT - Corsair Virtuoso SE - Logitech G910, G502 - Cooler Master Universal Graphics Card Holder

 

Plex : Ryzen 5 1600 - Gigabyte B450M-DS3H - G. Skill Ripjaws V 16GB 2400Mhz - MSI 1050Ti 4GB - 840 EVO 256GB + Toshiba P300 3TB - TP-Link AC1900 PCIe Wifi - Cooler Master MasterWatt Lite 500 - Antec Nine Hundred - Samsung 27" + Dell 24" 

 

Raven:  Intel i3 10100F - ASRock H410M-HDV - G. Skill Ripjaws V 16GB 2666Mhz - MSI 1050Ti 4GB - Inland 256GB SSD + Toshiba 2TB HDD - TP-Link AC600 USB Wifi - Gigabyte GP-P450B PSU -  Cooler Master MasterBox Q300L -  Spectre 24" 

 

Other Tech:

- Ubiquiti Amplifi HD mesh wifi

- 2021 Volvo S60 Recharge T8 Polestar Engineered - 415hp/495tq 2.0L 4cyl. turbocharged, supercharged and electrified.

- Lenovo 720S Touch 15.6" - i7 7700HQ, 16GB RAM, 512GB NVMe SSD, 1050Ti, 4K touchscreen

- MSI GF62 - i7 7700HQ, 16GB 2400 MHz RAM, 256GB NVMe SSD + 1TB 7200rpm HDD, 1050Ti

 

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For £200 you could get a RX6500XT GPU, it's not great but way better than a 750ti ! 

System : AMD R9 5900X / X570 AORUS PRO/ 2x16GB Corsair Vengeance 3600CL18 (OCed to CL16)/ RTX3080 Gigabyte EAGLE GPU/ Phanteks P600S case / Customized Watercooling Eisbaer 280mm + Eiswolf2 360mm + VPP755 pump  and 150mm reservoir/ 0.5TB Sabrent Rocket + 2TB WD SN850 NVme Gen4 + 4TB Toshiba X300 HDD drives/ Corsair RM850x PSU/ 34" 120Hz 3440x1440p Alienware AW3420DW monitor / Logitech G915TKL keyboard (wireless) / Logitech G PRO X Superlight mouse

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1 minute ago, PDifolco said:

For £200 you could get a RX6500XT GPU, it's not great but way better than a 750ti ! 

At that price range, I'd shop used. There are RTX 2060s for around £200 on eBay UK right now.

Dell owns my soul.

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2 minutes ago, Needfuldoer said:

At that price range, I'd shop used. There are RTX 2060s for around £200 on eBay UK right now.

Depends how daring OP is. I've had a a 2/2 bad experience buying used cards but will try again soon. 3rd time's the charm. 

Either way, even a 6500XT is gonna be an upgrade regardless if he doesn't gets as much value out of buying new.

Desktop: Ryzen 7 2700X - Kraken X62 Rev 2 - STRIX X470-I - 3200MHz 16GB Dominator Platinum - 250GB 970 Evo boot - 2x 500GB 860 Evo - 4TB HDD - XFX 5600XT - RMx 750 W 80+ Gold - Manta

Setup: Zowie XL2740 27.0" 240hz - AOC E2460SH 24.0 - Roccat Burt Pro - Corsair K70 LUX browns - HyperX Cloud - Mackie CR5X's

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// edit :  go for medium quality - often you get much better visuals for just a few fps drop, well worth it.  60 fps very low quality, vs 50-55 fps average medium ... is worth it.

 

Divinity Original Sin games ran very well on my RX 570 card. 

Played the first one on a older laptop with some Intel i5-32xx with integrated graphics and worked well, the 2nd is much more demanding and had to run it on lowest quality 

 

yeah 6500 XT would be on par or a bit better than a RX 480 /RX 570 / RX 580 and at a good price  but you have to be careful as it's got only pci-e x4 connection so there's gonna be some small drop in performance due to running only on pci-e 3.0 mode. 

 

Other potentially good alternatives, see below (picture from review techpowerup review : https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-6500-xt-pulse/31.html ) 

 

image.png.e2d8ab985e8a3a6ddce222e8c1512e4e.png

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Posted

Well whatever you buy, get used parts to make the most of your budget and make sure the vendor is somewhat trustable and doesn't seem like a sketchy Chinese company ad

 

If I were you though I'd go for a 1080 ti gpu, and then save a bit more money for a better cpu.

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6500 will be bogged down badly at PCI-E 3.0, also those 2060s are dirty ones of miner cards. Not to mention the questionability of the aged Tagan PSU with that card. I'd look into a 6600, which would be your carrying point with a new rig as well.

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Thanks, guys, for the responses / kind comments.

 

I agree the graphics card is the weakest link. This little 750Ti has gone through thick and thin with me. Such a solid purchase all those years ago. I took him out yesterday for a clean (he gets one every six months); all looks good, no fan whirring - no graphic anomalies on screen, no error codes, still performs under load - I have been fortunate. It was a stepping stone graphics card at the time, but it's been such a solid little performer!

 

Well spotted - the power unit is the oldest component of the system. I wouldn't say I like it in there at this point. Not even sure if the company is still around.

 

I hear you on medium settings though sometimes it just doesn't like being there! Plus I find on some games things are easier to see on lower settings! (ground items)

 

I am happy to gamble a second-hand card on eBay; it's probably the only way forward given budget limitations.

 

Few questions:
* Will a newer card be compatible with old hardware? Is it a question of PCI-E 3.0? Has much changed PCI-E-wise since? I presume a later upgrade down the road would resolve that particular bottleneck? How much of a performance upgrade would you describe it to be? Double?
* Thoughts on trying to upgrade the power unit at the same time?
* I have not researched the suggested cards yet, but I have always favoured Nvidia cards back in the day. Are they still renowned? AMD caught up? Price to performance tends to be AMD?
* I presume touching the CPU will result in upgraded RAM and motherboard chipset, which bumps the price considerably?

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Does anyone have suggestions on how to fix the M.2 screw hole (cautious application of super glue?). The M.2 is on a riser card, which I think shares the resources of the PCI-E lane, which is just a no-no. It's also blocking air intake to the graphics card a little bit.

Problem: I accidentally stripped the nut that the M.2 screw adheres to!

it.

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Posted
18 hours ago, Trexal said:

Few questions:
* Will a newer card be compatible with old hardware? Is it a question of PCI-E 3.0? Has much changed PCI-E-wise since? I presume a later upgrade down the road would resolve that particular bottleneck? How much of a performance upgrade would you describe it to be? Double?
* Thoughts on trying to upgrade the power unit at the same time?
* I have not researched the suggested cards yet, but I have always favoured Nvidia cards back in the day. Are they still renowned? AMD caught up? Price to performance tends to be AMD?
* I presume touching the CPU will result in upgraded RAM and motherboard chipset, which bumps the price considerably?

I've heard some GPU's lose out on more FPS than others on gen 3 but on average, not really. Most GPU's will be fine. CPU could be a bottleneck at 1080p but for such old games I don't think you'd notice.

600W is respectable.

Right now at 30 series and 6000 series, yes. AMD has caught up and is beating NVIDIA at 1440p below and at cards below $900+. NVIDIA is really milking it now to the point where I'd be surprised if it wouldn't negatively impact their 40 series sales.

There's no real worthwhile upgrade for the LGA1150 socket. If you were to touch you CPU it would be with just a pure outright upgrade to current gen parts. Around $300~ minimum.

 

 

Desktop: Ryzen 7 2700X - Kraken X62 Rev 2 - STRIX X470-I - 3200MHz 16GB Dominator Platinum - 250GB 970 Evo boot - 2x 500GB 860 Evo - 4TB HDD - XFX 5600XT - RMx 750 W 80+ Gold - Manta

Setup: Zowie XL2740 27.0" 240hz - AOC E2460SH 24.0 - Roccat Burt Pro - Corsair K70 LUX browns - HyperX Cloud - Mackie CR5X's

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Posted (edited)
Just now, venomtail said:

I've heard some GPU's lose out on more FPS than others on gen 3 but on average, not really. Most GPU's will be fine. CPU could be a bottleneck at 1080p but for such old games I don't think you'd notice.

600W is respectable.

Right now at 30 series and 6000 series, yes. AMD has caught up and is beating NVIDIA at 1440p or below and at cards below $900+. NVIDIA is really milking it now to the point where I'd be surprised if it wouldn't negatively impact their 40 series sales.

There's no real worthwhile upgrade for the LGA1150 socket. If you were to touch you CPU it would be with just a pure outright upgrade to current gen parts. Around $300~ minimum.

 

 

how tf do i delete my own reply to my own reply

Edited by venomtail

Desktop: Ryzen 7 2700X - Kraken X62 Rev 2 - STRIX X470-I - 3200MHz 16GB Dominator Platinum - 250GB 970 Evo boot - 2x 500GB 860 Evo - 4TB HDD - XFX 5600XT - RMx 750 W 80+ Gold - Manta

Setup: Zowie XL2740 27.0" 240hz - AOC E2460SH 24.0 - Roccat Burt Pro - Corsair K70 LUX browns - HyperX Cloud - Mackie CR5X's

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21 hours ago, Trexal said:

ASRock Z97M OC Formula

very desirable board due to its oc capabilities (top end asrock z97), you may wish to sell and get a cheaper z87/97

 

21 hours ago, Trexal said:

Intel i5 4690K @ 3.5Ghz (Overclocked)

Delid with a thin object (like a thin metal wire) and apply prefferably liquid metal or normal TIM will also work

 

Aim for ~4.8g, max voltage 1.55v according to intel 32 and 22nm spec but stay under 1.45v (<80c) cause most ppl will hit a cooling wall going to 1.5v+, also for efficiency focused overclock aim for ~1.3-1.35v

 

21 hours ago, Trexal said:

GeForce GTX 750 Ti (ASUS) (Overclocked @ core +110MHz, memory +550 MHz)

Swap for a better gpu, maybe an rx 470/570 or 480/580

 

21 hours ago, Trexal said:

Tagan BZ Series 600W

If it has been running without issue for years then no reason to swap unless you get a gpu that exceeds what the psu can deliver (all the suggested gpus in this thread will work fine with 600w psus), questionable maybe but it has proven its reliability so id not bother swapping till you need a better psu or this one dies

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21 hours ago, Trexal said:

Few questions:
* Will a newer card be compatible with old hardware? Is it a question of PCI-E 3.0? Has much changed PCI-E-wise since? I presume a later upgrade down the road would resolve that particular bottleneck? How much of a performance upgrade would you describe it to be? Double?

Unless you go super-top-end, (RTX 3080Ti, RTX3090, RX6900XT) you won't notice a bottleneck due to PCI-E 3.0 -- and those cards are quite above your budget.

...except for the 6500XT

Do NOT buy a 6500XT.

 

Second hand market is probably your best bet.

21 hours ago, Trexal said:

* Thoughts on trying to upgrade the power unit at the same time?

Shouldn't be necessary, if it's been working fine all these years, and the cards in your budget won't require that much extra power.

21 hours ago, Trexal said:

* I have not researched the suggested cards yet, but I have always favoured Nvidia cards back in the day. Are they still renowned? AMD caught up? Price to performance tends to be AMD?

Yes, I know, again with the budget - but with your limits, honestly, just grab whatever scores higher in benchmarks online that you can get your hands on.

21 hours ago, Trexal said:

* I presume touching the CPU will result in upgraded RAM and motherboard chipset, which bumps the price considerably?

I mean, you could switch that I5 for an I7, but the prices of second hand intel chips is usually so high that it's just not worthwhile most of the time.
The i7 equivalent of your chip would be the 4770K, which goes for... *quickly checks the tea-infused version of ebay* 70 queenerinos if you're lucky? That would limit your GPU budget considerably, and it's the part that needs replacing the most.

 

If you wanted to truly upgrade your CPU, yes, you would need a full combo swap of CPU, RAM and Mobo. Easily around 300 for that.

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Hi Guys,

 

I decided not to go down the second-hand route for all the reasons we already know.

 

Card > Price (UK) > PassMark

 

GTX 1660    £210.00    98
RX 6500 XT    £150.00    137
RX 550        £115.00    152
GTX 1650    £155.00    178
GTX 1050Ti    £170.00    212

 

A few of the cards mentioned are over budget in the new card market, but they were apparent choices if buying second-hand.

 

The RX 6500 XT is an individual case due to the PCI-e 4. Toms hardware reports a 40% performance drop when using it at PCI-e 3. Anthony at LLT doesn't recommend it but keeps comparing it to the RX 660, that's £100 more expensive. The consensus is that the performance hit is either not at all or 30%, depending on the games you are playing. This appears to be because different games place different demands on the PCI-e bus lane. (Thanks for the Linus video on bus lanes btw)

 

Where it got interesting was the price. The card has gained some bad press that has dropped the price to £150, and that's for an overclocked edition (2610 MHz base clock to 2825Mhz OC). It's unlikely that the extra clocks are going to be utilised on PCI-e 3 but a factor for future upgrades.

 

So I feel the RX 6500 XT is the way forward for me on the bases it's better than the GTX 750Ti, my games are not GPU intensive, and my next upgrade will be the CPU (so I will get PCI-e 4 on the new motherboard). Performance to value ratio is good at this price.

 

I was tempted by the GTX 1660 at £210, but I no longer have the 8-pin cable for the power supply so a new power supply will put me way over budget on an already over budget card. A new cable is not that straight forward, it uses a strange female to male power connector on the power unit.

 

Finally, in the meantime, I will delid the CPU, go liquid metal and push clocks. It sounds good fun - not sure what clocks I can reach with the current cooler, but that's part of the charm. Lots of research first.

 

The card is in the basket, so any last thoughts? Thanks again; this community is so great.

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Card Bought

If anyone stubbles on the thread then my prices here (correct as of 08/07/2022).

 

GTX 1660 £210.00
RX 6500 XT £150.00
RX 550 £115.00
GTX 1650 £155.00
GTX 1050Ti £170.00

 

 

 

UK Stores checked:

Overclockers
Amazon
Awd
NewEgg
Aria
NovaTach
eBuyer
Orbit
Box
Laptops Direct
Currys
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