Chip companies are scrambling to hire college students dazzled by software dollars

[rpgnoob]

Summary

 New semiconductor fabrication plants in the USA (Intel, TSMC, Samsung) will have a hard time finding skilled employees to staff their plants when they are operational. The lack of a 'pipeline' and the competition and attractiveness of SWE doesn't make the job any easier for the industry.

 

Quotes

Quote

 If the first of these new fabrication plants open on schedule beginning in 2024, chip companies won’t be able to rely on U.S.-born students to fill the tens of thousands of available jobs in the first few years. Georgetown’s lead chip labor researcher, William Hunt, estimates that at minimum, 3,500 foreign-born students — mostly engineers from Taiwan and China — will need to immigrate and get specialty visas to staff the planned facilities.

 

Those visas are almost impossible to get under current immigration policies.

 

Semiconductors need a makeover 

 

Companies such as Google and Apple are household names. For college students and their parents, they are status symbols that help fresh graduates with jobs at either organization pass the “mom and dad test,” as one chip executive put it. The likes of Intel and TSMC do not.

 

The number of students declaring computer science as their major has more than doubled since 2010 to over 40,000 last year, according to data from the Computing Research Association. In contrast, the quantity of chip-related degrees earned by American students has remained stagnant since the 1990s, according to Hunt’s research. Software engineering specifically was the eighth most-popular job for graduates immediately after college, according to Glassdoor’s 2021 data. Mechanical, electrical and civil engineering combined land at the 11th most-popular job.

 

[E]nrollment in semiconductor engineering declined dramatically as chip factories moved to other countries over the past 30 years, and has remained low ever since.

 

Middle and high school kids understand software engineering and learn to code in their classrooms, but most don’t learn much about transistors or cleanrooms, or understand the work that goes into building them. That’s one of the biggest challenges of tapping into the talent pipeline early, especially because the limited pool of people with semiconductor expertise rarely teach children.

 

My thoughts

I found this story, attributing the skill shortage to a lack of 'exposure' et al. interesting, after Linus mentioned that ALL the major semiconductor makers declined his request for a tour of their 'cool' fabrication plants and the potential for free PR & marketing. The other thing ('pipeline') is that it needed a crisis on several fronts, and an act of congress (loads of government money), to patch over some gaping holes in America's comparative competitiveness, and the semiconductors talent 'pipeline' (Vocational Education and Training).

 

Compare this to mainland Europe and how close Universities and their leading industry companies, big and small (Mittelstand), collaborate to maintain their basic science lead and skills availability. And the entrenchment and history of VET in the European economy.

 

Sources

Protocol: New chip fabricating plants will need tens of thousands of skilled workers who don’t currently exist. Training them means persuading students to look away from jobs at big tech companies.

[Donut417]

54 minutes ago, rpgnoob said:

and an act of congress (loads of government money), to patch over some gaping holes in America's comparative competitiveness

The problem is, education in the US is expensive. I have $47,000 in student loan debt and I make under $40,000 a year. There are a lot of Americans drowning in student loan debt. Between the cost of eduction, pay, and working conditions some industries struggle. Look at Airlines. They are so pasted fucked that its not funny. Decades of treating staff like shit, keeping wages low and not recruiting new pilots is finally catching up with them. Food service and hospitality are other industries who historically had low wages and poor treatment of workers. They can fill jobs fast enough. Every time I got to the store it seems like they are understaffed, worst at some retailers than others. Another critical industry is transportation. Truck drivers are in short ish supply. Mainly because the cost to become one has increased. You work 24 hours a day and if your lucky you get paid $50,000 a year if no less. Plus there are a plethora of regulations you have to follow. 

 

An act of congress with do fuck all to fix any of these problems. Those old fucks wouldn't know a solution if it came up a bit them in the ass. Loads of money is why our economy is sliding in to a recession currently. 

[Zodiark1593]

6 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

The problem is, education in the US is expensive. I have $47,000 in student loan debt and I make under $40,000 a year. There are a lot of Americans drowning in student loan debt. Between the cost of eduction, pay, and working conditions some industries struggle. Look at Airlines. They are so pasted fucked that its not funny. Decades of treating staff like shit, keeping wages low and not recruiting new pilots is finally catching up with them. Food service and hospitality are other industries who historically had low wages and poor treatment of workers. They can fill jobs fast enough. Every time I got to the store it seems like they are understaffed, worst at some retailers than others. Another critical industry is transportation. Truck drivers are in short ish supply. Mainly because the cost to become one has increased. You work 24 hours a day and if your lucky you get paid $50,000 a year if no less. Plus there are a plethora of regulations you have to follow. 

 

An act of congress with do fuck all to fix any of these problems. Those old fucks wouldn't know a solution if it came up a bit them in the ass. Loads of money is why our economy is sliding in to a recession currently. 

I may be the disappointment of my grandparents in that I wasn’t financially successful like they managed, and of my parents for dropping out of college a decade ago, but student debt seems to be a heck of a bullet I dodged. 

[Dracarris]

12 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

The problem is, education in the US is expensive. I have $47,000 in student loan debt and I make under $40,000 a year. There are a lot of Americans drowning in student loan debt.

JFC this is sooo fucked up beyond imagination (including the rest of what you wrote).

[Fasterthannothing]

17 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

The problem is, education in the US is expensive. I have $47,000 in student loan debt and I make under $40,000 a year. There are a lot of Americans drowning in student loan debt. Between the cost of eduction, pay, and working conditions some industries struggle. Look at Airlines. They are so pasted fucked that its not funny. Decades of treating staff like shit, keeping wages low and not recruiting new pilots is finally catching up with them. Food service and hospitality are other industries who historically had low wages and poor treatment of workers. They can fill jobs fast enough. Every time I got to the store it seems like they are understaffed, worst at some retailers than others. Another critical industry is transportation. Truck drivers are in short ish supply. Mainly because the cost to become one has increased. You work 24 hours a day and if your lucky you get paid $50,000 a year if no less. Plus there are a plethora of regulations you have to follow. 

 

An act of congress with do fuck all to fix any of these problems. Those old fucks wouldn't know a solution if it came up a bit them in the ass. Loads of money is why our economy is sliding in to a recession currently. 

That doesn't have anything to do with the lack of stem majors. It's because of poor stem education in middle and high school. Why better your understanding of something you didn't learn in the first place! We are literally ranked behind craphole Russia and communist China for goodness sake.

 

Quote

U.S. Slips To Third In International Science And Math Competitions 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markkantrowitz/2021/11/07/us-slips-to-third-in-international-science-and-math-competitions/?sh=18bbf7727db4

[Doobeedoo]

I can assume it's a mess. Even outside of US of A there'a lack of certain skillset qualification and experience opportunities in IT and such and therefore workers. It's rather sad that for something like modern jobs education is scuffed and non existant in higher tier of education, lack of thought experience etc.

[Donut417]

46 minutes ago, Fasterthannothing said:

That doesn't have anything to do with the lack of stem majors. It's because of poor stem education in middle and high school. Why better your understanding of something you didn't learn in the first place! We are literally ranked behind craphole Russia and communist China for goodness sake.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markkantrowitz/2021/11/07/us-slips-to-third-in-international-science-and-math-competitions/?sh=18bbf7727db4

When the population is dumb it’s easier to control them. That’s why our education system is failing. They need a dumb and compliant work force. Remember the rich and corporations control the US. The 99% are just here to serve them. 

[IPD]

33 minutes ago, Fasterthannothing said:

That doesn't have anything to do with the lack of stem majors. It's because of poor stem education in middle and high school. Why better your understanding of something you didn't learn in the first place! We are literally ranked behind craphole Russia and communist China for goodness sake.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markkantrowitz/2021/11/07/us-slips-to-third-in-international-science-and-math-competitions/?sh=18bbf7727db4

This.

 

It really comes down to the US education system flying off the rails and being so far off-track that course correction is nearly impossible.  That started at least as far back as "no child left behind" and common-core.  Eventually math became racist.  Of course, none of that makes a lick of sense.  We lost the forest for the trees.  Gender studies and classes about "feelings" don't matter to the job market.  The only thing that should matter for education, is equipping the student with the skills required of or in demand by the job market.

 

Of course, the fixes for this could be very easy--but those would be unpopular.  Like elimination and outlawing of all for-profit post-secondary institutions.  Like mandates that place the educational institution on the hook for a student's educational costs when the student has measured up scholastically--but fails to obtain employment in the respective job segment.  Like incentivizing STEM degrees by offering lower total costs for students in those fields.  And continuous process improvement by looking at contemporary institutions of higher learning for STEM around the globe--and mandating that the standards for the USA be equal to or harder than--the majority of those around the world.

 

Instead, we have watered down the meaning of a 4 year degree by a massive over-representation of the population having 4 year degrees.  Less than 25% used to have them--now....it's nearly 40%.  Even in a vacuum where the actual field of study is unknown--a baccalaureate used to be an indication of scholastic ability and thus portended to a person's ability to learn, adapt, think critically, etc.  But now, because the product has become impossibly watered down--these 4 year degrees are about as useful as toilet paper.  Illiterate students graduating high school and--in some cases--college as well...speaks volumes to how broken the system has become.

 

And employers frequently cannot be bothered to differentiate between a 4 year degree from a still-reputable institution, and a 4 year double-major in race-relations/gender-studies from some random state college.  The overall product has been diluted.  So employers will seek visas to import qualified workforce--because the US education system has completely lost sight of its entire purpose.

[Zodiark1593]

1 hour ago, IPD said:

This.

 

It really comes down to the US education system flying off the rails and being so far off-track that course correction is nearly impossible.  That started at least as far back as "no child left behind" and common-core.  Eventually math became racist.  Of course, none of that makes a lick of sense.  We lost the forest for the trees.  Gender studies and classes about "feelings" don't matter to the job market.  The only thing that should matter for education, is equipping the student with the skills required of or in demand by the job market.

 

Of course, the fixes for this could be very easy--but those would be unpopular.  Like elimination and outlawing of all for-profit post-secondary institutions.  Like mandates that place the educational institution on the hook for a student's educational costs when the student has measured up scholastically--but fails to obtain employment in the respective job segment.  Like incentivizing STEM degrees by offering lower total costs for students in those fields.  And continuous process improvement by looking at contemporary institutions of higher learning for STEM around the globe--and mandating that the standards for the USA be equal to or harder than--the majority of those around the world.

 

Instead, we have watered down the meaning of a 4 year degree by a massive over-representation of the population having 4 year degrees.  Less than 25% used to have them--now....it's nearly 40%.  Even in a vacuum where the actual field of study is unknown--a baccalaureate used to be an indication of scholastic ability and thus portended to a person's ability to learn, adapt, think critically, etc.  But now, because the product has become impossibly watered down--these 4 year degrees are about as useful as toilet paper.  Illiterate students graduating high school and--in some cases--college as well...speaks volumes to how broken the system has become.

 

And employers frequently cannot be bothered to differentiate between a 4 year degree from a still-reputable institution, and a 4 year double-major in race-relations/gender-studies from some random state college.  The overall product has been diluted.  So employers will seek visas to import qualified workforce--because the US education system has completely lost sight of its entire purpose.

I’d go so far as to put education in the Bill of Rights via amendment. An educated populace is critical to the long term health of a democratic society. 

[gjsman]

1 hour ago, IPD said:

Less than 25% used to have them--now....it's nearly 40%. 

Illiteracy on college campuses is no joke. If I did a sampling of students at my old college and simply asked them to write a 1000-word essay, on any subject of their choice, and have the essay be correct in both grammar and spelling (other than maybe the occasional minor slip-up that even the best writers have occasionally), I don't think many of them would be capable of such a simple thing that was expected of High Schoolers not long ago.

[gjsman]

9 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

I’d go so far as to put education in the Bill of Rights via amendment

The US spends more money on education per child than any country in the world, and more money on education in total than any other country in the world. Money isn't the issue.

 

University of California study:

https://rossieronline.usc.edu/blog/u-s-education-versus-the-world-infographic/

[BuckGup]

This is an issue they created themselves. Intel used to have 2 buildings near where I am and they all closed a few years ago BECAUSE they laid off the older engineers due to their pay being much higher. But all of the new hires didn't have any of the legacy knowledge and forced them to close the buildings. I'm not sure what they did exactly in these as they weren't fabs but this corporate ideology is everywhere. 

 

I used to work at HPE and the average age of employee in my region was 52 years old. Everyone younger would come and eventually leave or not accept the offer and work somewhere else out of college. When I would question management on what they are doing to fix these issues it became very apparent everyone was fixated on retirement and $$$$ and didn't give a single fuck. Even about your health and safety so I'm really not surprised abusive employers are having a hard time finding victims. 

 

If they offered similar pay to tech startups, with the same workforce atmosphere, and incentives they would have no issues. But no one wants to slave over an engineering degree to only work with 50 year old white men in a cleanroom. People want to write code drunk on their balcony because they can and get paid heavily for it. So again I'm not sure why everyone is so surprised 

[Sauron]

Not much to do with tech but rather terrible immigration policies.

[IPD]

10 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

This is an issue they created themselves. Intel used to have 2 buildings near where I am and they all closed a few years ago BECAUSE they laid off the older engineers due to their pay being much higher. But all of the new hires didn't have any of the legacy knowledge and forced them to close the buildings. I'm not sure what they did exactly in these as they weren't fabs but this corporate ideology is everywhere. 

 

I used to work at HPE and the average age of employee in my region was 52 years old. Everyone younger would come and eventually leave or not accept the offer and work somewhere else out of college. When I would question management on what they are doing to fix these issues it became very apparent everyone was fixated on retirement and $$$$ and didn't give a single fuck. Even about your health and safety so I'm really not surprised abusive employers are having a hard time finding victims. 

 

If they offered similar pay to tech startups, with the same workforce atmosphere, and incentives they would have no issues. But no one wants to slave over an engineering degree to only work with 50 year old white men in a cleanroom. People want to write code drunk on their balcony because they can and get paid heavily for it. So again I'm not sure why everyone is so surprised 

Well it certainly can't help that the CCPV took 10% out of the actual working force.  And that wasn't just any 10%, it was a concentration of those 50+ who have the most expertise & experience--who just decided they were done working altogether.  And some industries had not planned ahead well enough to deal with THAT MUCH brain drain happening in a concentrated period of time.

 

And as I've noted before, that pushes the next people up the food chain--qualified or not.  And at the bottom--where the unskilled labor market is--you have a dearth of any applicants or people willing to work; which is why the going wage has doubled and made $15/hr a de-facto reality without any legislation required.

[IPD]

3 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Not much to do with tech but rather terrible immigration policies.

Well yes and no.  A quality education system means that student visas will become very important--as the USA becomes the destination for top-tier education.  And that also allows for a direct access path to a skilled labor market.  But as it stands, few are truly enticed to come here, let alone stay here.

 

Opening the floodgates via carte blanch open borders doesn't fix this; because the USA won't get an influx of skilled laborers.  We will only get dregs of emigrating society who care nothing for preserving and maintaining that which has traditionally made the USA a desirable destination for immigrants worldwide.

[Forbidden Wafer]

1 hour ago, Zodiark1593 said:

I’d go so far as to put education in the Bill of Rights via amendment. An educated populace is critical to the long term health of a democratic society. 

I'd agree with you on that, but after the tons of bizarre scenes of tirany during the pandemic,

and a bunch of retards sabotaging their own power/transportation infrastructure to "own" the oil industry, I guess it couldn't be further from the truth.

[Sauron]

2 minutes ago, IPD said:

Opening the floodgates via carte blanch open borders doesn't fix this; because the USA won't get an influx of skilled laborers.  We will only get dregs of emigrating society who care nothing for preserving and maintaining that which has traditionally made the USA a desirable destination for immigrants worldwide.

I question the logic of asserting that giving a visa to someone who already has a work contract with these companies is bringing in "the dregs of emigrating society", whatever that even means. But hey, feel free to shut everyone out and let your economic development die instead.

[Ydfhlx]

3 hours ago, Donut417 said:

When the population is dumb it’s easier to control them. That’s why our education system is failing.

That's a bad diagnosis, Russia and China want to control population even more and they have better education than US.

[Ydfhlx]

36 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Not much to do with tech but rather terrible immigration policies.

If you have to rely on immigrants to keep high tech industry going despite having many of world's best universities - something's already very wrong.

[IPD]

59 minutes ago, Ydfhlx said:

If you have to rely on immigrants to keep high tech industry going despite having many of world's best universities - something's already very wrong.

We don't though.  Not really.  Not anymore.

[IPD]

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

I question the logic of asserting that giving a visa to someone who already has a work contract with these companies is bringing in "the dregs of emigrating society", whatever that even means. But hey, feel free to shut everyone out and let your economic development die instead.

I don't follow your logic.

 

I stated that student visas can translate to work visas and become a means to permanent immigration.  I also stated that porous borders tends to attract the dregs of other societies.  One need look no further than the increasing presence of MS-13 and other similar institutions--to see how this is problematic.

[StDragon]

16 minutes ago, IPD said:

I don't follow your logic.

 

I stated that student visas can translate to work visas and become a means to permanent immigration.  I also stated that porous borders tends to attract the dregs of other societies.  One need look no further than the increasing presence of MS-13 and other similar institutions--to see how this is problematic.

Neo-feudalism. The powerful / elite has always desired an underclass to control and exploit at the expense of the middle-class. It's been this way since the early days of recorded written history on cuneiform. But now, it's back in vogue and in-your-face. Attempts to hide it from the forefront isn't event a concern anymore.

[Lightwreather JfromN]

3 hours ago, gjsman said:

The US spends more money on education per child than any country in the world, and more money on education in total than any other country in the world. Money isn't the issue.

 

University of California study:

https://rossieronline.usc.edu/blog/u-s-education-versus-the-world-infographic/

I'm fairly certain that most of that money is not spent on the actual education of the student but other things such as Security, more security and other stuff.

i, Vox usually isn't a reliable source but this does explain the situation pretty nicely (to an outsider such as me at least):

 

[Sauron]

2 hours ago, Ydfhlx said:

If you have to rely on immigrants to keep high tech industry going despite having many of world's best universities - something's already very wrong.

Not at all, immigrants coming in to a country to fill a role due to a sudden increase in demand is nothing new. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it. The population of the US is in large part made up of descendants of economic immigrants and it's part of the reason it's been such a strong economic powerhouse for so long. Or I guess you could just wait and stall your technological and economic progress 20-30 years for an increase in educational throughput to show some results, assuming action is even taken in that direction...

 

As for having so many great universities, maybe if you didn't need to take out a mortgage to attend one more people would.

1 hour ago, IPD said:

I stated that student visas can translate to work visas and become a means to permanent immigration.

That's not what's needed right now. What's needed are specialty visas which are much harder to get than they used to be due to, again, asinine policy.

1 hour ago, IPD said:

I also stated that porous borders tends to attract the dregs of other societies.

Nobody is even talking about "porous borders" here. We're talking about specialty work visas for highly trained figures coming from abroad.

[cmndr]

Can confirm, SWE, especially in FAANG pays A LOT.

$180k a year for a 22 year old in their first job.
$250k a year by age 25ish.
$350k a year by 30ish.

This is a "middle of the road" path for a SWE at a FAANG.

FYI Apple and a few others ARE starting to pay a bit more for hardware roles.