Do B550 Boards Support PCI Gen 4?

[RONOTHAN##]

49 minutes ago, Octolikestech said:

I'm using a 3400g and b450-m at the moment, if I used a x570 with it would I get pcie gen 4 lanes?

No, the 3400G only supports Gen 3. The motherboard, CPU, and GPU need to support Gen 4 in order to run at gen 4. It will run at the lowest common link speed, which in this case would be Gen 3. 

[Mister Woof]

11 minutes ago, Guest 5150 said:

You have to justify PCI-E 4.0 for a 6500XT. If you game 1080P ultra settings, you might go over the 4gb memory and dump some load on PCI overhead, but we are talking a few frames a second across a bunch of games on an average. So looking at a realistic performance difference of around 3%. 

 

In my opinion, it's just not a big enough card to warrant a full system purchase. You'd be better off spending the money on a more powerful GPU first that might justify the use of PCI-E 4.0 which few cards would actually "need" in a sense of any real performance gains that would have you smile for the money spent. 

 

As an example, it would be like saying I should get PCI-E 4.0 for my GTX 980ti (which is faster than a 6500XT) and expect some huge performance gains. Minimal at best.

 

Other wise, good luck!

It also gets more complicated when you are looking at the high end. Single digit performance gains from 3.0 to 4.0 may seem small, but people can and do spend way more than the cost of a new motherboard to gain single digit gains (3090ti over 3090, for example). Not agreeing with them, but just putting it all in perspective.

[Guest]

Just now, Shimmy Gummi said:

It also gets more complicated when you are looking at the high end. Single digit performance gains from 3.0 to 4.0 may seem small, but people can and do spend way more than the cost of a new motherboard to gain single digit gains (3090ti over 3090, for example). Not agreeing with them, but just putting it all in perspective.

3% on 60 fps is not a big number. 

 

And your talking about people that can afford a 3090ti..... Obviously a 6500XT is no where near a 3060, let alone a 2060..... 

 

He'd be best to drop in a 5600X and get the CPU performance gains (20%) which will increase the FPS higher than buying a board to support 4.0 which the card won't ever utilize.

 

Spend the money smart, get a nice little RTX 3060 and get one hell of a major performance up lift and go from 1080P to 1440 or even 4K and upgrade the monitor. 

 

Just depends on the budgets really. From what I read, our original poster doesn't have a large budget. 

[Mister Woof]

Just now, Guest 5150 said:

3% on 60 fps is not a big number. 

 

And your talking about people that can afford a 3090ti..... Obviously a 6500XT is no where near a 3060, let alone a 2060..... 

 

He'd be best to drop in a 5600X and get the CPU performance gains (20%) which will increase the FPS higher than buying a board to support 4.0 which the card won't ever utilize.

 

Spend the money smart, get a nice little RTX 3060 and get one hell of a major performance up lift and go from 1080P to 1440 or even 4K and upgrade the monitor. 

 

Just depends on the budgets really. From what I read, our original poster doesn't have a large budget. 

It might matter more if for example AMD continues with the trend of neutered PCIE support on low end cards. Performance differences may be small now, but lets say they continue to offer PCIE4.0x4 GPUs with smallish VRAM buffers in the sub $200 price point. 

 

At some point, PCIE4 stops being a feature for the high end and is just necessary. I personally can't support recommending anyone with a PCIE3 system in 2022 for this reason.

[Guest]

Just now, Shimmy Gummi said:

It might matter more if for example AMD continues with the trend of neutered PCIE support on low end cards. Performance differences may be small now, but lets say they continue to offer PCIE4.0x4 GPUs with smallish VRAM buffers in the sub $200 price point. 

 

At some point, PCIE4 stops being a feature for the high end and is just necessary. I personally can't support recommending anyone with a PCIE3 system in 2022 for this reason.

You have to exceed the 4gb Vram limit. And then you get those little sinle digit performance gains. 

 

Anything running UNDER the 4gb limit of that card, will have 0 impact on 90% of games.

[Mister Woof]

6 minutes ago, Guest 5150 said:

You have to exceed the 4gb Vram limit. And then you get those little sinle digit performance gains. 

 

Anything running UNDER the 4gb limit of that card, will have 0 impact on 90% of games.

And that can happen often enough, especially if we're expecting significant gains next gen. Unless we're resigning ourselves to RX 570 levels of performance for the same or more price for eternity.

 

We'd all like to hope they increase VRAM on graphics cards, or simply give them the full PCIE interface. But then again, shit like GT1030 DDR4 exist. We said the same thing when the RX 5500XT came out. But here we are, 6500XT. Can never be sure they won't keep pumping out turds. 

 

With the availability of cheap PCIE4 systems, there's no reason to ever recommend PCIE3 betting they don't. IMO.

[Guest]

Just now, Shimmy Gummi said:

And that can happen often enough, especially if we're expecting significant gains next gen. Unless we're resigning ourselves to RX 570 levels of performance for the same or more price for eternity.

I'd upgrade the GPU first. 

 

I have an RTX 2060 that's only got a Ryzen 4 1400 behind it. And it can game 4K low fps. It's seriously hurt by the Cpu, but the monitor is 1080P and it's a really decent match up. The Cpu upgrade from a 1400 to a 5600X (which is my plan) should really give the PC a significant boost. Daughters gaming rig. Heck she doesn't even need all that gpu, a 6500XT would probably suit her the same. She'd never see the difference. As an example of course. I can't justify a platform upgrade for that B450 even with an RTX 2060.... if you catch my drift. She's not a competitive gamer. So she doesn't use an FPS counter. It's just always smooth and that's the story.

[Mister Woof]

5 minutes ago, Guest 5150 said:

I'd upgrade the GPU first. 

 

I have an RTX 2060 that's only got a Ryzen 4 1400 behind it. And it can game 4K low fps. It's seriously hurt by the Cpu, but the monitor is 1080P and it's a really decent match up. The Cpu upgrade from a 1400 to a 5600X (which is my plan) should really give the PC a significant boost. Daughters gaming rig. Heck she doesn't even need all that gpu, a 6500XT would probably suit her the same. She'd never see the difference. As an example of course. I can't justify a platform upgrade for that B450 even with an RTX 2060.... if you catch my drift. She's not a competitive gamer. So she doesn't use an FPS counter. It's just always smooth and that's the story.

Of course there's always applications for everything, and nothing has to absolutely be 100% optimized. Myself I have small bottlenecks or sub-optimal configurations in all of my systems....mostly since half of them are leftover parts jumbled together to be "good enough."

 

Just my personal belief is to steer people towards smart choices when in the position to make them.

 

For example I cannot recommend someone buying 5600G unless they absolutely need iGPU when the Ryzen 5 5600 (nonx) exists and outperforms it in every way, plus has PCIE4 in case they need it for future GPU/storage needs.

 

Also can't recommend 10th gen Intel for anything unless it's really damn cheap. 11th gen can be defensible, but again, only if it's a deal you can't possibly pass up.

[Somerandomtechyboi]

1 hour ago, freeagent said:

Fast memory does not much good if the cpu is weak. Just “ok” to tinker with, not exactly the best value.

Im gonna sell oced bare pcbs so either 4500 or 5500 (leaning on the 5500 cause high fclk), if it was just a normal pc then id go for a 3600 or a 5600

 

Unfortunately still stalled and not selling ddr3 bare pcbs yet

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Shimmy Gummi said:

Of course there's always applications for everything, and nothing has to absolutely be 100% optimized. Myself I have small bottlenecks or sub-optimal configurations in all of my systems....mostly since half of them are leftover parts jumbled together to be "good enough."

 

Just my personal belief is to steer people towards smart choices when in the position to make them.

 

For example I cannot recommend someone buying 5600G unless they absolutely need iGPU when the Ryzen 5 5600 (nonx) exists and outperforms it in every way, plus has PCIE4 in case they need it for future GPU/storage needs.

 

Also can't recommend 10th gen Intel for anything unless it's really damn cheap. 11th gen can be defensible, but again, only if it's a deal you can't possibly pass up.

If I was doing a new gaming platform on the cheap, 12400F or 12600K +z690 and call it a day.

[Mister Woof]

2 minutes ago, Guest 5150 said:

If I was doing a new gaming platform on the cheap, 12400F or 12600K +z690 and call it a day.

12400F, B660, 6700Xt right now are the combo to go for imo

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Shimmy Gummi said:

12400F, B660, 6700Xt right now are the combo to go for imo

Oh for sure. I'm doing the 12600K Asus PRIME D4-A or whatever it's called. Nothing special, just needs to turn on. Lol

[cmndr]

1 hour ago, Shimmy Gummi said:

For example I cannot recommend someone buying 5600G unless they absolutely need iGPU when the Ryzen 5 5600 (nonx) exists and outperforms it in every way

It's more energy efficient.
It's easier to justify keeping that CPU longer if you want to later use it for a server or a NAS.

In a hypothetical where you're comparing a B450 system with a 5600g vs a B550 system with a 5600, you might expect around 15W more power draw at idle. That's about $40-50/year in California (27 cents/KWH) if you're also using air conditioning to maintain temperatures. If you keep the thing as a server for 5 years... $200-250 in costs.

Not life altering but it's enough to think about.


Having an extra few percent in performance has never really mattered. Realistically any jump that's not 20% isn't going to be all to noticeable and shouldn't be worried about unless the device is revenue generating.
 

1 hour ago, Shimmy Gummi said:

plus has PCIE4 in case they need it for future GPU/storage needs.

Future proofing doesn't work.
Even the GPU argument is tenuous... "if you buy a low end GPU from one specific vendor and rule out the other two vendors..." worst case scenario you just buy something used that has more lanes.

This is a made up problem that doesn't really matter.

[Mister Woof]

1 hour ago, cmndr said:

It's more energy efficient.
It's easier to justify keeping that CPU longer if you want to later use it for a server or a NAS.

In a hypothetical where you're comparing a B450 system with a 5600g vs a B550 system with a 5600, you might expect around 15W more power draw at idle. That's about $40-50/year in California (27 cents/KWH) if you're also using air conditioning to maintain temperatures. If you keep the thing as a server for 5 years... $200-250 in costs.

Not life altering but it's enough to think about.


Having an extra few percent in performance has never really mattered. Realistically any jump that's not 20% isn't going to be all to noticeable and shouldn't be worried about unless the device is revenue generating.
 

Future proofing doesn't work.
Even the GPU argument is tenuous... "if you buy a low end GPU from one specific vendor and rule out the other two vendors..." worst case scenario you just buy something used that has more lanes.

This is a made up problem that doesn't really matter.

Respectfully disagree. PCIE3 limitation already manifests, especially at the low end.

 

This difference is significant. It transforms the 6500XT from worse than a 6 year old RX 570 to GPUs above its class.

 

 

 

In this case, for example, my i3-10105F build, "upgrading" to a 6500XT wouldn't even do anything. In some cases, I'd see a regression.

 

I am forced to be more selective on what graphics cards actually provide a benefit.

 

"Future proofing" in this context is preparing for the possibility that this type of business modeling continues.

[cmndr]

8 minutes ago, Shimmy Gummi said:

Respectfully disagree. PCIE3 limitation already manifests, especially at the low end.

This difference is significant. It transforms the 6500XT from worse than a 6 year old RX 570 to GPUs above its class.

Don't choose an x4 card.

 

Most cards aren't x4. You have to go out of your way to find an issue and you're essentially allowing an edge case to determine choices for the entirety of your system design.

 

Even with your example, the $$$ wasted on getting a different CPU/board could just go towards getting a better card.

 

 

 

[Mister Woof]

5 minutes ago, cmndr said:

Don't choose an x4 card.

 

Most cards aren't x4.

 

Even with your example, the $$$ wasted on getting a different CPU/board could just go towards getting a better card.

 

 

 

You also presume that GPU manufacturers don't continue this stupid trend.

 

Don't forget that 6600/XT and 3050 also suffer from gimped PCIE interface, albeit much less concerning (x8). It's quite possible that they keep doing it, or even worse implementations. The 5500XT was blasted on the internet, and yet, here we are. It's the same thing.

 

The money also isn't "wasted." In the case of the 5600G vs 5600(x), there is also an absolute performance difference. The 5600G and 5700G have HALF the L3 cache.

 

Additionally, 12th gen Intel chips are just....way faster than the 5600G. Your perception of "wasted" money is in your head. There are also a ton of decent inexpensive B550 boards. 

 

As far as the 5600G...it costs the same as the 5600(nonx) and is inferior in every way except integrated graphics.
 

[Mister Woof]

And to drive the point home on why it is not smart to push PCIE3 boards/chips in this era: The OP bought a 6500XT, while having a PCIE3 motherboard and CPU. Now he discovered that there's a bunch of lost performance on the table and is asking for upgrade options.

 

It's a shitty situation to have on your hands, and sure a little research could have avoided this all, but with the onus of research being pushed onto the consumer, I feel it's every bit our responsibility as a community to put people onto a good path to avoid issues. 

 

In his situation, does it make sense to upgrade the motherboard and cpu? Probably not, since he already has them. Hindsight is 20/20 but here we are. For him, a drop in 5600 non x and a 6700xt makes a lot of sense. But that's neither here nor there given the situation.

 

But in the case of a new buyer, yeah, absolutely push them towards PCIE4 so if a case that has an already existing example arises in the future...it just flat won't affect them.