Apple just killed M1 - WWDC 2022

[Emily Young]

Apple broke tradition and announced hardware at WWDC. M2 Macs are on the way with bigger GPUs and tighter integration with macOS, iOS, and iPadOS - The PC world may need to rethink its priorities.

 

 

[Shimejii]

Just seems like a decent little bump. Should be interesting to see how it compares to the m1 Ultra or M1 Max, and eventually when the m2 Ultra/Max/Ultramax/OmegaMax/Grannysmith comes out to compare. Sounds like they just went with the Safe route for incremental upgrade though rather then make a big jump.

[A.willians]

nah shell be right 

[NomBread]

[Commodus]

23 minutes ago, NomBread said:

You do know some people don't use their computers for gaming, right?

 

I know this was just tongue-in-cheek, but we've gotta move beyond the notion that a computer is worthless unless we can play the latest games at full speed. The new MacBook Air is going to be fast for everyday use and some heavy-duty projects while offering very long battery life, a ridiculously thin chassis and complete silence (as there's no fan).

[Ultraforce]

I understand that a lot of the LTT audience is going to not be people who necessarily use it too much, but some changes to Focus are really exciting to me and I could see myself using the focus modes more.

[rikitikitavi]

4 hours ago, Ultraforce said:

I understand that a lot of the LTT audience is going to not be people who necessarily use it too much, but some changes to Focus are really exciting to me and I could see myself using the focus modes more.

I would believe that many people use ‘do not disturb’ functionality.

[rikitikitavi]

5 hours ago, Commodus said:

You do know some people don't use their computers for gaming, right?

 

I know this was just tongue-in-cheek, but we've gotta move beyond the notion that a computer is worthless unless we can play the latest games at full speed. The new MacBook Air is going to be fast for everyday use and some heavy-duty projects while offering very long battery life, a ridiculously thin chassis and complete silence (as there's no fan).

It doesn't mean that we (mac users, who want to play a random fancy game) are not sour about it every other time. Reminder like 'oh look, Village is coming to macOS' - doesn't feel like a big leap in the gaming direction, but that it could have been one if more people cared. Apple has the Arcade, and doesn't seem to care as much about bringing big and/or hardcore IPs. Not even some random indie is guaranteed to be released for macOS/iOS (I might be out of touch about latest indies though).

 

Keeping a desktop with Windows just for gaming feels wasteful (extra device, good and unutilized hardware), but that's what I have to do. I would believe that many other mac-mains are in similar situation, cause using Windows - hurts lol. Waiting for SteamDeck to become more relevant, and get more attention from devs/publishers...

Funny that I don't feel exactly the same about dedicated gaming platforms.

[Commodus]

1 hour ago, rikitikitavi said:

It doesn't mean that we (mac users, who want to play a random fancy game) are not sour about it every other time. Reminder like 'oh look, Village is coming to macOS' - doesn't feel like a big leap in the gaming direction, but that it could have been one if more people cared. Apple has the Arcade, and doesn't seem to care as much about bringing big and/or hardcore IPs. Not even some random indie is guaranteed to be released for macOS/iOS (I might be out of touch about latest indies though).

 

Keeping a desktop with Windows just for gaming feels wasteful (extra device, good and unutilized hardware), but that's what I have to do. I would believe that many other mac-mains are in similar situation, cause using Windows - hurts lol. Waiting for SteamDeck to become more relevant, and get more attention from devs/publishers...

Funny that I don't feel exactly the same about dedicated gaming platforms.

Oh, you don't have to like it! My beef is more with the people who act as if a computer is only worthwhile if you can play Elden Ring or the latest Call of Duty on it. I see this often on forums — enthusiasts who think they dictate what a good computer can be.

 

I see titles like RE8, and efforts like MetalFX, as a nudge toward better gaming on Macs. Look at it this way: Apple didn't even acknowledge Mac gaming in a more than incidental way for years, and even at the M1 intro it was using a years-old game mainly to demo code translation. I'm not expecting to buy a hardcore gaming-ready iMac any time soon, but the fact that Apple actually highlighted 'new' Mac games and built a gaming-focused API feature? Those are steps in the right direction.

[RoseLuck462]

As much as I love Anthony, is there any reason why MAC Address hasn't taken over Apple discussion?

[Ultraforce]

29 minutes ago, RoseLuck462 said:

As much as I love Anthony, is there any reason why MAC Address hasn't taken over Apple discussion?

For WWDC and the big apple events/releases to maximize revenue there is going to be usually an LTT video with Anthony or someone in the main writing staff who watches the reveal or tries out the equipment and has more experience with it then Linus, Mac Addresss stuff for the topic, and TechLinked because it's news.

[Supreme Calamitas]

At $1300 M2 is now in league with rtx 3070 laptops, 3080s if you spec it to 512gb 16gb (which you should).

 

$1200 for 8gb of ram? And $200 for 8 more gigs. No words

 

Good luck with that 

[rikitikitavi]

5 hours ago, Commodus said:

Oh, you don't have to like it! My beef is more with the people who act as if a computer is only worthwhile if you can play Elden Ring or the latest Call of Duty on it. I see this often on forums — enthusiasts who think they dictate what a good computer can be.

Overlaps with the group who think they need i9 to get the best gaming experience.

 

5 hours ago, Commodus said:

I see titles like RE8, and efforts like MetalFX, as a nudge toward better gaming on Macs. Look at it this way: Apple didn't even acknowledge Mac gaming in a more than incidental way for years, and even at the M1 intro it was using a years-old game mainly to demo code translation. I'm not expecting to buy a hardcore gaming-ready iMac any time soon, but the fact that Apple actually highlighted 'new' Mac games and built a gaming-focused API feature? Those are steps in the right direction.

Fingers crossed.

 

58 minutes ago, Marko1600 said:

At $1300 M2 is now in league with rtx 3070 laptops, 3080s if you spec it to 512gb 16gb (which you should).

 

$1200 for 8gb of ram? And $200 for 8 more gigs. No words

 

Good luck with that 

It is kinda like comparing an off-road and a track capable cars... very dependent on the comparison criteria...

Also, don't expect the same car dynamics if you put a 2.0L engine in a Golf and in a Land Cruiser.

[Supreme Calamitas]

21 minutes ago, rikitikitavi said:

It is kinda like comparing an off-road and a track capable cars... very dependent on the comparison criteria...

Also, don't expect the same car dynamics if you put a 2.0L engine in a Golf and in a Land Cruiser.

Actually I'm interested in getting proven wrong, state your point

[rikitikitavi]

50 minutes ago, Marko1600 said:

Actually I'm interested in getting proven wrong, state your point

MacBook Air and a laptop with a mobile 3070 are in different market segments... unless you are simply looking for 'I want any laptop for $1200'...

 

As for the RAM - sorry, I won't pin point you to youtube videos and articles with the benchmarks  - there are many of them, including from LTT, nor do I have the extensive knowledge on the topic to give a good and exhaustive explanation.

But, here's the summary: M1 with 8GB outperforms Mac and Windows x86 counterparts, and in certain scenarios it is compared to 16GB variants.

[Supreme Calamitas]

3 hours ago, rikitikitavi said:

MacBook Air and a laptop with a mobile 3070 are in different market segments... unless you are simply looking for 'I want any laptop for $1200'...

What do you mean by segments? They do cost the same... one clearly outperforms the other

 

3 hours ago, rikitikitavi said:

M1 with 8GB outperforms Mac and Windows x86 counterparts, and in certain scenarios it is compared to 16GB variants.

That still leaves my main concern, running out of those fast but measly 8 gigs, fast or not running out is just as easy. 

 

Reminds of last gen iphones, $800 phones with 64gb storage. 8gb of ram for $1200... seems like we have a pattern here?  

 

[rikitikitavi]

54 minutes ago, Marko1600 said:

What do you mean by segments? They do cost the same... one clearly outperforms the other

Match: price and 'laptop'.

No match: portability (dimensions, battery life) and display - I highly doubt that any of these would match similarly priced laptop with a 3070. Sturdy metal construction, passive cooling (silent), speakers, better headphones jack, maybe even CPU performance are things that people also think about. On the other hand we have AAA gaming and everything else demanding beefy GPU. Add other platform specific software to the mix. 

 

There is a reason why M1 Air is popular and is suggested a lot, as mentioned before - beefy GPU is not the main reason to buy a pc for a lot of people.

 

1 hour ago, Marko1600 said:

That still leaves my main concern, running out of those fast but measly 8 gigs, fast or not running out is just as easy. 

When it is needed, OS transfers not necessary things from RAM to your storage (swap memory). This helps when you don't have enough RAM... however - it may (probably not significantly) decrease the lifespan of your SSD (similar story with hibernation).

 

1 hour ago, Marko1600 said:

Reminds of last gen iphones, $800 phones with 64gb storage.

That is not the same...

[Supreme Calamitas]

13 minutes ago, rikitikitavi said:

Match: price and 'laptop'.

No match: portability (dimensions, battery life) and display - I highly doubt that any of these would match similarly priced laptop with a 3070. Sturdy metal construction, passive cooling (silent), speakers, better headphones jack, maybe even CPU performance are things that people also think about. On the other hand we have AAA gaming and everything else demanding beefy GPU. Add other platform specific software to the mix. 

Fair enough, they're not the same but I can't help but feel like that macbook air is inferior to similarly priced windows laptops in areas that actually matter (at least to me) like performance for example, I can imagine a macbook air being good for students but then why would a student care about a performance boost...

 

13 minutes ago, rikitikitavi said:

That is not the same...

It is not the same, but quite similar actually

Apple really needs to develop something like nVidia's OptiX, I have to admit the CPU is insane. But that GPU is disappointing to say the least

[maplepants]

That M2 MacBook Air looks pretty sweet. I'm in the market for a new shared family laptop and that'll fit the bill quite nicely.

[Supreme Calamitas]

Oh my God bro what have they done, that ultrawide camera feature is not ready yet lmao 

 

Link

 

[hishnash]

On 6/8/2022 at 7:59 PM, Marko1600 said:

Apple really needs to develop something like nVidia's OptiX, I have to admit the CPU is insane. But that GPU is disappointing to say the least

In perf/W apples GPUs are rather good, you just need to remember this is a GPU that is drawing 15W of power. From a GPU feature perspective unless you ned FP64 support apples GPUs are featuring all the bells and whistles you would expect. However they are TBDR based GPUs as a developer who has ported a TBIR pipeline to TBDR I can say unless you put in the work (a lot of work going back to the drawing board) you will not be better an optimal perfomance. In my use case (not a game) going from running the TBIR code path on the TBDR gpu to running the optimised pipeline we were able to over 2x the task. But this optimisation required completely re-thinking what was in what render passes, how we did basically every visual effect, even changing how we scheduled draw calls. This was possible/justified of us as the application was not very dynamic and we really needed to target maximum battery live (iPad being used in a mine underground for as long as possible). 

OptiX is an api for RT apple in fact have RT apis in metal, they in fact support RT operations in more ways than OptiX does. You can dispatch waves from the cpu or gpu, you can query interacts in any compute function or even any vertex, mesh, fragment or tile compute stage as well.   OptiX can be a pain to deal with in a display situations since much of it is CUDA only and this means you need to deal with all the extra pain of sharing data between your CUDA and chosen display api.  

[hishnash]

On 6/8/2022 at 7:47 PM, rikitikitavi said:

When it is needed, OS transfers not necessary things from RAM to your storage (swap memory). This helps when you don't have enough RAM... however - it may (probably not significantly) decrease the lifespan of your SSD (similar story with hibernation).

 

memory compression plays a big role before needing to swap. on Apple silicon macOS makes extensive use of memory compression before it swaps data to disk the memory controller itself is provides this at a very overhead.  As native apps on macOS use 16kb pages (rather than 4kb) it is easier to have good compression ratio. 

[Buck1972]

What people do not get about the current MacBook vs everyone else argument is something that I have found very useful in the past 19 months with mine. 
 

the fact that I have 100% of my CPU performance 12+hours away from a power brick.   That is killer for me.   
 

Move around quite a bit. And I have to consider the range on my windows laptops carefully between stops at the power brick.   But not the MBA. 
 

now I could have gotten a Dell XPS with the same price. And it would have the range. But to get that range, the performance of the system has to go way down. 
 

I see all these $1200-1500 gaming machines, and guys who go look at the frame rates they get. And I say, that’s awesome, now let’s unplug it and see how long it lasts on the plane to Europe.   
 

give me a $1200 machine that gives me 100% performance on battery for 12 plus hours in under 4 pounds with absolutely no fan noise of any kind, and I will buy it. 
 

based on that, I know no windows machine anywhere will fit the bill.   And that is fine.   But there is a machine that can and I appreciate that. 
 

 

[thekingofmonks]

Videos like this are the reason why I use this forum just like any other forum and don't give a single crap about LTT