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I’m tired of winning (and it's awesome)

3 hours ago, Hammeryamz said:

As much as I would have loved to wait until the new AMD 7000s come out to upgrade, PC failure issues made me upgrade to the 5800x this past weekend (And that still did not even fix my issue -_-)

 

Really exciting stuff coming from both OEMs. I am more partail to AMD, but its nice to see the CPU competition is back. Consumers rejoice!

..And intel hasn’t even dropped their bomb yet. All they’ve done so far is show that it is going to arrive.  3 manufacturers and enforced anti-collusion rules break monopoly and duopoly.  I always thought that “let’s make duopoly legal” judicial decision was stupid.  I suspect it will soon be proven irrevocably.  Of course it sort of was when the law was made in the first place.  Intel is a duopoly beneficiary though.  Maybe this is why the cards haven’t come out yet.  It would mean they never will though. 

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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3 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

 

 

My BOMBASTIC PREDICTION.  In 5-10 years GPU's will be as obsolete as sound cards.  They will still exist for people who really want them and who think they can distinguish 24k 3000 hz from 4k 240 or something.   

 

iGPUs have made impressive advancements, however, there's still tight limits, such as die space and power draw. Games will also continue to advance, necessitating add-in cards in the future to keep the PC in service with newer games. Dedicated cards do not stand still either.

 

Memory bandwidth is also an ever-present issue in iGPUs. DDR5-6400 in dual-channel provides 102 GB/s. Compare this to the GDDR5 in my 7-year old video card which hits 112 GB/s, with newer cards going many times higher. Even with a theoretical DDR6 doubling this throughput, you're still well behind today's high-end cards. In graphical workloads, you want lots of memory bandwidth. Even with tricks such as memory compression, and a tile-based renderer, a 3090 TI still has a memory bandwidth of close to 1 TB/sec. Even a future DDR6 with quad-channel will be quite far off.

 

The benchmark I would probably consider good enough is a fully Path Traced, Unbiased Renderer running at 4K (with AA), and 240+ Hz, and enough samples that denoising isn't necessary. I give it a minimum of 15 years before top of the line cards can hit this mark with moderately complex shaders. iGPUs, I'd probably give another ten years on top of that (Iris XE, the fastest Intel IGPU as of this writing, is roughly in the ballpark of high-end dGPUs from 2010-2011, as far as compute goes), assuming we can still shrink transistors further, or we have some new transistor type that can push us into double digit GHz.

My eyes see the past…

My camera lens sees the present…

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The cool thing about the new chipsets is that B650 will be enough for 99.99% of buyers, no no need to splurge for the extra unless you have a niche usage scenario or just want the bragging rights. After all SLi/XF are dead and by the time GPUs start to push the limits of an x16 PCI-E 4.0 slot we'll be on AM7 anyway (Hell PCI-E 3.0 has been available on motherboards over a decade now and we're only recently seeing it make a real difference over PCI-E 2.0 x16, and only at 1080p).

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16 hours ago, cmndr said:

I'm still waiting to see what Raptorlake brings but I'm definitely ready for the next advancement in CPUs.
I'll probably upgrade my CPU/board and then relegate my old board to becoming a NAS... and my 3900x becomes my mother's CPU and the NAS gets the 1700.

This is part of why I like AMD CPUs... I can horse trade to get the right mix of stuff. I wonder how well the 1700 undervolts... can I use it with 64GB RAM? humm...

yeah except amd is going with lga now and intel's raptor lake is staying at lga 1700 so they have swapped positions now 

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10 minutes ago, Noxitb said:

yeah except amd is going with lga now and intel's raptor lake is staying at lga 1700 so they have swapped positions now 

On the basis of a single generation... yeah.

I suspect that AM5 will last 3-5 years. I expect LGA1700 has 1 year left in its life.

I could make an argument for myself to get Raptorlake though (my step father has a 12100 CPU and RaptorLake would likely be a drop in replacement).

I tend to give family members my handmedowns.

 

3900x | 32GB RAM | RTX 2080

1.5TB Optane P4800X | 2TB Micron 1100 SSD | 16TB NAS w/ 10Gbe
QN90A | Polk R200, ELAC OW4.2, PB12-NSD, SB1000, HD800
 

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1 minute ago, cmndr said:

On the basis of a single generation... yeah.

I suspect that AM5 will last 3-5 years. I expect LGA1700 has 1 year left in its life.

I hope am5 does that, but I’m not counting my chickens yet.

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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1 minute ago, cmndr said:

On the basis of a single generation... yeah.

I suspect that AM5 will last 3-5 years. I expect LGA1700 has 1 year left in its life.

I recon that lga1700 will have about 5 as intel is moving towwards keeping there lga1700 platform like the did with 9000 to 11000 series and they only change it to 1700 because of ddr5 so i think lga 1700 will be good until ddr6 comes out and even the it might still stay as its a really good socket compared to amds new am5 yes the cpu is goof FOR NOW but the socket design is not the best compared to intel and yes i used to love amd until they decided to be intel and chnage the socket where as intel has alot going for them and lga1700 and raport lake cpus and more on 

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2 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

I hope am5 does that, but I’m not counting my chickens yet.

yeah will as i said just now its most likley going to go the other way 

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1 hour ago, Bombastinator said:

I hope am5 does that, but I’m not counting my chickens yet.

I'd wait until AMD makes an announcement before making any strong assumptions about platform lifespan.

I would care less about this if Intel shifted their platform lifespan to ~3 years. There's little reason to NOT have a board last for ~3 generations and it REALLY helps out the consumer.

 

1 hour ago, Noxitb said:

I recon that lga1700 will have about 5 as intel is moving towwards keeping there lga1700 platform like the did with 9000 to 11000 series and they only change it to 1700 because of ddr5 so i think lga 1700 will be good until ddr6 comes out and even the it might still stay as its a really good socket compared to amds new am5 yes the cpu is goof FOR NOW but the socket design is not the best compared to intel and yes i used to love amd until they decided to be intel and chnage the socket where as intel has alot going for them and lga1700 and raport lake cpus and more on 

https://www.pcgamesn.com/intel/alder-lake-s-motherboard-lga1700-longevity

 

Intel hasn't done 5 in a VERY long time (LGA 775 lasted about that long BUT there were various chipset incompatibilities). Socket 7 sorta kinda lasted that long but there were also issues.


I'm hoping for 3 as a happy middle ground. This means ~2 mainstream platforms on the DDR5 standard, or something like that.

3900x | 32GB RAM | RTX 2080

1.5TB Optane P4800X | 2TB Micron 1100 SSD | 16TB NAS w/ 10Gbe
QN90A | Polk R200, ELAC OW4.2, PB12-NSD, SB1000, HD800
 

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22 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Gaming wise you’ve got a decent chance of the thing lasting another 5 years, (probably with 1 video card upgrade in there) so it likely doesn’t matter all that much. If LITTLE cores get used by game devs it will have a whole 16 threads for gaming. If they don’t you’re stuck with 12 though.  Might be an issue might not.

Sadly  I think that might be true, as gamers are not benefiting from intels spec sheet focusing on efficiency cores to allow the comparison charts to show 16 cores... and if the thick boy server crap would allow more manipulation as in disabling all but the best quality or thermaly spaced cores needed for a gaming load... and not being stuck with limitations in place for the full active die...

 I'm a simp so maybe it's not possible .

23 hours ago, cmndr said:

I'm still waiting to see what Raptorlake brings but I'm definitely ready for the next advancement in CPUs.
I'll probably upgrade my CPU/board and then relegate my old board to becoming a NAS... and my 3900x becomes my mother's CPU and the NAS gets the 1700.

This is part of why I like AMD CPUs... I can horse trade to get the right mix of stuff. I wonder how well the 1700 undervolts... can I use it with 64GB RAM? humm...

I'm not expecting much mostly based on the z690 kingpin still being in stock @ evga... if NDA in the loop people were preparing for a decent package on lga 1700 I don't think this would be the case,   

🤐🙄🤨😪

KEEP IMPROVING THAT COMPARISON CHART INTEL 

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20 minutes ago, PC,Grave,Robber said:

I'm not expecting much mostly based on the z690 kingpin still being in stock @ evga... if NDA in the loop people were preparing for a decent package on lga 1700 I don't think this would be the case

It's almost certain that z790 will be a thing.


Also, it's possible that EVGA overproduced.

3900x | 32GB RAM | RTX 2080

1.5TB Optane P4800X | 2TB Micron 1100 SSD | 16TB NAS w/ 10Gbe
QN90A | Polk R200, ELAC OW4.2, PB12-NSD, SB1000, HD800
 

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These new CPUs are great news for businesses and professionals who can do heavy-duty rendering and similar tasks.

 

However, I can't see it making a meaningful difference in gaming. Since Playstation 5 & the new Xbox use the rough equivalent of a Ryzen 3700, and game streaming is becoming an increasingly attractive option (especially on medium-to-low powered machines), it's highly unlikely that we'll see games that are designed to take advantage of the new super-duper 16 core AM5 CPUs. Why would they? Current AAA games aren't even pushing the limits of the new consoles. 

 

So yeah, this is amazing tech, but as gaming goes, only enthusiasts with a lot of money to spend will ever even consider paying so much for incrimental upgrades.

Ryzen 1600x @4GHz

Asus GTX 1070 8GB @1900MHz

16 GB HyperX DDR4 @3000MHz

Asus Prime X370 Pro

Samsung 860 EVO 500GB

Noctua NH-U14S

Seasonic M12II 620W

+ four different mechanical drives.

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19 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

My BOMBASTIC PREDICTION.  In 5-10 years GPU's will be as obsolete as sound cards.  

Not happening. I predict the opposite. Future enthusiast computers will have a specialized discrete GPU for graphics and a specialized discrete NPU for low precision tensor calculations. At one point all those RTX and Tensor cores would be better off in their own die.

 

I have an 8th gen Intel core, later this year I'm planning a full upgrade to DDR5 and Intel 13th gen.

 

I'm glad AMD is making serious CPUs out and pushing Intel to really crank up the preformance/euro and euro/core metrics, I hope AMD can keep Intel on their toes for a long while. It's a sad that performance had stagnated for so long.

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2 minutes ago, 05032-Mendicant-Bias said:

At one point all those RTX and Tensor cores would be better off in their own die.

I might see this happen but then with encryptors  for streaming and over video calls. certainly seeing as people get bigger screens and would like to see the full resolution being used to watch content/streamers

RAM 32 GB of Corsair DDR4 3200Mhz            MOTHERBOARD ASUS ROG Crosshair VIII Dark Hero
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Psu Corsair AX1200i
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On 5/23/2022 at 12:13 PM, Kid.Lazer said:

No way this will happen. I wish it would, but it simply won't. Even a mid-tier GPU draws 200 watts or more. Stuffing that much power draw on top of a 100 watt CPU isn't going to get proper cooling.

 

And sure, maybe the APUs of 5 years from now will be able to run our present games at high resolutions and frame rates, but newer 3D technologies will likely require faster hardware, thus negating any gains in APU performance.

Also replying to all the good points made in other replies. 

When you have an IGP that can play the Next GTA game at 4k 60 ray traced while a GPU cost half the price of the whole computer, has its own 1000 watt power supply ... lots of people are going to decide that they have reached a point of diminished returns.  

For GPU's to be come superfluous APU's don't need to become better to them... they only need to be good enough for most while also being more economical, practical, and attainable. 

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