AMD Zen 4 CPU with 5.2 GHz Boost and RDNA 2 iGPU surfaces

[BiG StroOnZ]

Summary

An AMD Zen 4 CPU with a 5.2GHz Boost Clock has been discovered in the OpenBenchmarking database. The Ryzen 7000 processor has eight Zen 4 cores with simultaneous multithreading. The eight-core, 16-thread portion should be the Ryzen 7 7800X, the successor to the popular Ryzen 7 5800X. It also contains a RDNA 2 iGPU running between 1,000 and 2,000 MHz.

 

 

Quotes

Quote

The OpenBenchmarking Zen 4 processor is an engineering prototype, but its 5.21 GHz boost clock is outstanding. It outperforms any AMD mainstream chip currently available. For example, the Ryzen 9 5950X tops out at 4.9 GHz, whereas the Ryzen 7 5800X tops out at 4.7 GHz. Raphael also shows what AMD can do with Zen 4 on TSMC's 5nm technology. The N5 node, according to the Taiwanese foundry, is 30% more power efficient or 15% faster than the 7nm node utilized for AMD's current Ryzen 5000 (Vermeer) series. 

 

The Zen 4 processor contains a graphics engine dubbed "GFX1036" that runs between 1,000 and 2,000 MHz. The clock speed appears reasonable, with potential for improvement. The Radeon 680M used in Ryzen 6000 reaches 2,400 MHz.

 

Splinter-RPL (WS22427N000 BIOS) could be the codename for the reference AM5 platform.

 

My thoughts

The future is looking good on the CPU side of computing. After seeing what the 5800X3D could do a month ago, it appears AMD is not planning on slowing down despite Intel's Alder Lake interrupting AMD's game plan. If AMD can catch up on the clock speed front Intel will be in some serious trouble. And I can't imagine what would happen if they added their 3D V-Cache implementation to a Zen 4 chip (for gaming; plus clockspeed increases). 

 

Sources

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/amd-zen-4-cpu-with-5-2-ghz-boost-and-rdna-2-igpu-surfaces.html

[Shimejii]

Its probably not the 7800x (They are gonna have to change the Names since  7th gen HEDT and  9th gen intel and this is gonna SUCK) but the 7700G or at least a Testing chip. 5.2 Ghz is Great, and i hope to see it get well enough, but i dont think its a V-Cache model since that had problems with higher speeds. They may have Two seperate chips, the gaming chip with V-Cache,  and then a seperate chip line for Productivity and general use. Since they havea 5800x and 5800X3D i could see that happening again.

 

If they manage to do it all under one chip, i would say it would be wonderful, if they fix the V-Cache speed issue, add in a IGpu, and make it around the same price, that would certainly be a great chip. 

[dizmo]

Can't wait to see how hot this one runs.

 

20 minutes ago, Shimejii said:

Its probably not the 7800x (They are gonna have to change the Names since  7th gen HEDT and  9th gen intel and this is gonna SUCK) but the 7700G or at least a Testing chip. 5.2 Ghz is Great, and i hope to see it get well enough, but i dont think its a V-Cache model since that had problems with higher speeds. They may have Two seperate chips, the gaming chip with V-Cache,  and then a seperate chip line for Productivity and general use. Since they havea 5800x and 5800X3D i could see that happening again.

 

If they manage to do it all under one chip, i would say it would be wonderful, if they fix the V-Cache speed issue, add in a IGpu, and make it around the same price, that would certainly be a great chip. 

Haha, they're not going to change the name. If they were worried about that they wouldn't have stolen most of the chipset naming scheme from Intel.

[PeachGr]

Feel like mentioning that it won't come with 3D vcache. That will come at early 2023

[porina]

8 hours ago, BiG StroOnZ said:

it appears AMD is not planning on slowing down despite Intel's Alder Lake interrupting AMD's game plan. If AMD can catch up on the clock speed front Intel will be in some serious trouble.

AMD's plans were likely unaffected by Alder Lake. AMD will focus on producing the best product they can, as do Intel. It's not like you can radically change your design plans based on what the competition are doing, beyond some tinkering on the edge with specific configurations.

 

Likewise, Intel is not standing still either. Alder Lake's successor is expected around the same time.

 

7 hours ago, dizmo said:

Haha, they're not going to change the name. If they were worried about that they wouldn't have stolen most of the chipset naming scheme from Intel.

With the chipsets AMD mostly copied the naming structure but not the exact arrangement, and used the marketing trick of bigger number is better to give an illusion to the uninformed they were ahead. The clash only happened on the mid range B chipset. When AMD hijacked Bx50, Intel simply named theirs Bx60. Since they used different letters on the high end chipset with X on AMD side and Z on Intel side, same number part was ok.

 

B chipset timeline

Intel B150 2015 Sept

Intel B250 2017 Jan

AMD B350 2017 Mar

AMD B450 2018 Mar

Intel B360 2018 April

Intel B460 2020 Q2

AMD B550 2020 Jun

Intel B560 2021 Q1

 

With the CPU name, you could argue for example that Intel's was i7-7800X, and this possible AMD CPU might be an R7 7800X. Or will AMD do something different, like 7810X? Do you count the prefix as part of the model or is 7800X considered taken? It would make it a real pain to search for information on either part if AMD did go with 7800X.

[HenrySalayne]

7 hours ago, Shimejii said:

Its probably not the 7800x (They are gonna have to change the Names since  7th gen HEDT and  9th gen intel and this is gonna SUCK) but the 7700G or at least a Testing chip.

We might see iGPUs on most SKUs and they drop the "G" suffix. If the rumours are true, Zen4 will come with up to three chiplets per CPU (or a total of 24 cores), so they have to adjust their naming scheme a little bit.

[BiG StroOnZ]

3 hours ago, porina said:

AMD's plans were likely unaffected by Alder Lake. AMD will focus on producing the best product they can, as do Intel. It's not like you can radically change your design plans based on what the competition are doing, beyond some tinkering on the edge with specific configurations.

 

Likewise, Intel is not standing still either. Alder Lake's successor is expected around the same time.

 

That statement wasn't meant to be taken literally, sorry if that was unclear. What I meant by it was that Alder Lake was able to regain some of the performance crown back, and as a result you see people recommending Intel (Alder Lake) once again for builds (for the longest time every recommendation was AMD Zen based). I don't believe they are changing their design plans or anything like that.

 

Yeah, Raptor Lake is supposed to be launching in 2H 2022; it will be interesting to see what their second implementation of P-Cores and E-Cores will be and what kind of performance gains are seen. It really is an exciting time to be into computers to be honest. 

[KaitouX]

11 hours ago, BiG StroOnZ said:

The eight-core, 16-thread portion should be the Ryzen 7 7800X, the successor to the popular Ryzen 7 5800X.

I sure hope it isn't, a Ryzen 7 8-core CPU would have no chance at competing against a likely i7 8P+8E-core CPU in MT tasks, it probably wouldn't even be able to match a possible 6P+8E i5, and I don't think it will be anywhere near enough faster in ST to justify it, only gaming might be a good point, but even that will probably not be that much better than Raptor Lake without the 3D cache.

 

Currently my expectations are that AMD is going to replicate what Intel did with the 9900K and go full "Gaming CPU" with their 6,8 and 12 core CPUs, the 16 core one will probably still be a good option, but unless they increase the core count in the lower tiers and/or drop prices, I can't see AMD in a good position, particularly due to the likely price increase of the motherboards like what happened to B660 and Z690 boards even if the price increase isn't as big, and good DDR5 being really expensive.

[BiG StroOnZ]

8 minutes ago, KaitouX said:

I sure hope it isn't, a Ryzen 7 8-core CPU would have no chance at competing against a likely i7 8P+8E-core CPU in MT tasks, it probably wouldn't even be able to match a possible 6P+8E i5, and I don't think it will be anywhere near enough faster in ST to justify it, only gaming might be a good point, but even that will probably not be that much better than Raptor Lake without the 3D cache.

 

Currently my expectations are that AMD is going to replicate what Intel did with the 9900K and go full "Gaming CPU" with their 6,8 and 12 core CPUs, the 16 core one will probably still be a good option, but unless they increase the core count in the lower tiers and/or drop prices, I can't see AMD in a good position, particularly due to the likely price increase of the motherboards like what happened to B660 and Z690 boards even if the price increase isn't as big, and good DDR5 being really expensive.

 

You don't think clock speed plus IPC increases can make up for the deficit? Not sure on your full "Gaming CPU" speculation though, seems like that would be left for 3D V-Cache chips later on.

[Mark Kaine]

I for one am happy if they dont do the big little thing... even though I kinda expect them to do it anyways,  maybe not this gen?

 

4 hours ago, PeachGr said:

Feel like mentioning that it won't come with 3D vcache. That will come at early 2023

Ah, ok so my 3600 has to do until then... Im only interested in gaming performance... (do you have a link for these rumors,  just curious to get some more info? )

 

Idk, Intel would have been a good choice because of the avx 512 thing*, but since they pulled it and i don't wanna go chasing a "none fused off chip" i guess its no longer an option anymore. 

 

47 minutes ago, BiG StroOnZ said:

 

You don't think clock speed plus IPC increases can make up for the deficit? Not sure on your full "Gaming CPU" speculation though, seems like that would be left for 3D V-Cache chips later on.

So just to be clear, Zen 4 will only work with DDR5? If so I hope prices come down a lot when i buy my "3D" chip! 

 

 

*

Spoiler

actually they're saying here Zen 4 has avx 512? Is that confirmed? 

 

80%, baby!  

 

[BiG StroOnZ]

40 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

So just to be clear, Zen 4 will only work with DDR5? If so I hope prices come down a lot when i buy my "3D" chip! 

 

*

  Reveal hidden contents

actually they're saying here Zen 4 has avx 512? Is that confirmed? 

 

80%, baby!  

 

 

It appears that is the case:

 

AMD’s AM5 Socket to Only Support DDR5, Will Feature a Dual-Chiplet Design (dated April 26, 2022) ~ 

 

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/334542-amds-am5-socket-to-only-support-ddr5-will-feature-a-dual-chiplet-design

 

I'm wondering if that will drive the prices of DDR5 down or simply impose a shortage (and thus increase prices  ). 

 

As far as AVX-512, last leak regarding it was in August of 2021 with this specific document mentioning AVX-512 support for Zen 4 (dated August 17, 2021) ~

 

 

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/325888-gigabyte-leaks-amd-zen-4-details-5nm-avx-512-96-cores-12-channel-ddr5

 

But these are all rumors so you know how that goes. 

[Mark Kaine]

53 minutes ago, BiG StroOnZ said:

But these are all rumors so you know how that goes. 

Alright,  thanks for the info! yeah, its still useful to know what is planned... if both end up without avx 512 makes it an easier choice, as in cheaper wins at similar performance lol.

 

As for DDR5, I see, yeah it might take time for prices to become reasonable,  who knows!

 

 

[starsmine]

1 hour ago, Mark Kaine said:

I for one am happy if they dont do the big little thing... even though I kinda expect them to do it anyways,  maybe not this gen?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

actually they're saying here Zen 4 has avx 512? Is that confirmed? 

 

80%, baby!  

 

Big little is coming with the zen 4c cores as little cores with zen 5 yes. Big little is a good and smart use of die space as it gives you far more general compute on the same die space then you other wise could. 

[Vishera]

5 hours ago, porina said:

With the CPU name, you could argue for example that Intel's was i7-7800X, and this possible AMD CPU might be an R7 7800X. Or will AMD do something different, like 7810X?

It will probably be named the AMD RYZEN 7 7700X

[Doobeedoo]

Looking very good, definitely nice to see much faster clocks. 

Also interesting they may plan to do 3D cache as separate SKU hmm. Ah and iGPU I thought it would be RDNA3 no. 

Either very excited to see benchmarks and 3D cache one if it will be a separate SKU because it can really give a boost. 

[BiG StroOnZ]

34 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

Alright,  thanks for the info! yeah, its still useful to know what is planned... if both end up without avx 512 makes it an easier choice, as in cheaper wins at similar performance lol.

 

As for DDR5, I see, yeah it might take time for prices to become reasonable,  who knows!

 

 

 

No problem!  But I agree, whatever ends up cheaper at similar performance wins your wallet.

 

Regarding DDR5; prices will eventually come down, when though is the real question. So I do also agree it might take time for the prices to become acceptable. My personal opinion though; is that DDR5 is definitely worth it, I know people will disagree with that, but I find the technology to be useful to adopt (it provides 2x the bandwidth and density of DDR4 while decreasing power consumption). To each their own though. 

[porina]

21 minutes ago, Vishera said:

It will probably be named the AMD RYZEN 7 7700X

I only took the 7800X from OP. 7700X is also a valid possibility and at least it doesn't directly clash with an Intel CPU model. Nearest are Kaby Lake 7700/7700k there. Looking at Ryzen naming history, the top line CPUs through the generations have offered n700X and n800X offerings only missing 2800X for whatever reason.

 

Looking again at the source, it is even clear if this is going to be the full fat desktop CPU or could it be an APU? I don't think there is the information available to say that.

[PeachGr]

2 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

do you have a link for these rumors,  just curious to get some more info?

https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-7000-5nm-zen-4-desktop-cpus-am5-platform-september-launch-rumor/

I m pretty sure it is confirmed, but things change. Go to the sheet somewhere in the end of the article of you don't wanna read the whole thing

[KaitouX]

1 hour ago, BiG StroOnZ said:

You don't think clock speed plus IPC increases can make up for the deficit? Not sure on your full "Gaming CPU" speculation though, seems like that would be left for 3D V-Cache chips later on.

Being somewhat optimistic Zen 4 will be 30~35% faster in ST compared to Zen 3, Alder Lake is ~18% faster, so if Raptor lake is around 7% faster than Alder lake in ST, which would be a fair improvement for a "refresh", this would put Zen 4 ST average under 10% ahead of Raptor lake.

When comparing the 12600(6P-cores, with power limits removed to match the K variant boosting behavior) to the 12600K(6P+4E-cores), the 12600K is ~30% faster in MT. When comparing the i9 12900K stock against itself with the E-cores turned off, it seems to be about ~35% faster in MT tasks.

 

Overall I think the situation will be somewhat similar to the Zen+ vs Coffee Lake, where one side has a slight ST advantage, but the other has way more cores/threads.

[Mark Kaine]

42 minutes ago, BiG StroOnZ said:

But I agree, whatever ends up cheaper at similar performance wins your wallet.

yeah, with the caveat that I'd definitely be willing to pay a slight premium for avx 512, which will be mentioned in gaming oriented reviews only passing by if at all, as in "oh and it has avx 512 but you don't need this for gaming.........."

totally missing the point of up to ~80% more performance for emulators , which can be the difference between 50fps or ...~80fps.

 

For DDR5, well it's an upfront cost that you don't have with intel 12th gen at least as it supports DDR4, which just happens so I already have! 

 

So its really a price/performance thing not so much that I think DDR5 isnt any good. 

 

15 minutes ago, PeachGr said:

https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-7000-5nm-zen-4-desktop-cpus-am5-platform-september-launch-rumor/

I m pretty sure it is confirmed, but things change. Go to the sheet somewhere in the end of the article of you don't wanna read the whole thing

Ah, thanks, well any half reliable info is good... as its definitely not that easy to decide for me, i just guess best course of action would be wait for 2023/ 3d V-Cache Ryzens at which point my 3600 will probably be "hopelessly outdated" 

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

 

 

 

[PeachGr]

21 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

hopelessly outdated

I ll update at the end of the year, and Intel vs AMD will be a bloodbath. I need it for more than gaming, and it's  hard to decide. I guess the benchmarks will show what we need to know, and I m not leaning on any side atm. WFCCtech is a reliable source In general, but right now, not even Intel nor AMD knows enough to decide ^_^. Even the first owners will have a different experience from the rest of us that will get it on stable bios etc.

[Quackers101]

kinda hate how it's for DDR5 now. unless this becomes better in price and for other components.

hope to see DDR5 improve as I guess it can or will *right before DDR6 and PCIe 6*

[leadeater]

20 hours ago, BiG StroOnZ said:

As far as AVX-512, last leak regarding it was in August of 2021 with this specific document mentioning AVX-512 support for Zen 4 (dated August 17, 2021) ~

I'm quite confident Zen 4 will support it due to EPYC and Datacenter needing it to be competitive since that is still a thing and important there unlike desktop and currently AMD does not split their archectures like Intel does.

[leadeater]

19 hours ago, starsmine said:

Big little is coming with the zen 4c cores as little cores with zen 5 yes. Big little is a good and smart use of die space as it gives you far more general compute on the same die space then you other wise could. 

Zen 4c isn't big little. Zen 4c is a density optimized design to allow up to 128 cores and such CPUs will only have Zen 4c cores.

 

AMD has already officially stated they are not doing and have no current plans of doing big little so there is no speculation here nor is it required, we know it's not happening.

[leadeater]

18 hours ago, KaitouX said:

Being somewhat optimistic Zen 4 will be 30~35% faster in ST compared to Zen 3, Alder Lake is ~18% faster, so if Raptor lake is around 7% faster than Alder lake in ST, which would be a fair improvement for a "refresh", this would put Zen 4 ST average under 10% ahead of Raptor lake.

When comparing the 12600(6P-cores, with power limits removed to match the K variant boosting behavior) to the 12600K(6P+4E-cores), the 12600K is ~30% faster in MT. When comparing the i9 12900K stock against itself with the E-cores turned off, it seems to be about ~35% faster in MT tasks.

 

Overall I think the situation will be somewhat similar to the Zen+ vs Coffee Lake, where one side has a slight ST advantage, but the other has way more cores/threads.

Zen 4 has a fair decent shot at being more than 35% faster, if they deliver the 20%+ IPC gain along with the node gains then that's 35% from that just based on TSMC's public information on node performance gains. So there could be a little more gains floating around, not that I'm saying 50% is realistic though. Of course on the other side getting those gains through to actual application performance gains there could be losses on that side lowering effective gains 

 

Also you didn't factor in that for MT workloads Zen 3 is already vastly more power efficient and moving to Zen 4 would increase that further meaning the Zen 4 cores will actually be able to be driven at much higher performance under MT workloads meaning overall MT performance will be higher relative for ST to MT per core performance. Zen 3 is already better in this aspect than Intel is but I suspect this will be even more so with Zen 4.

 

So out of the two Zen 4 actually stands more to gain for MT workloads relatively speaking.