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Send Me Your Prototypes

We were super disappointed the first time we checked out the Eluktronics Liquid Propulsion Package, but now they've fixed everything.. maybe.

 

 

 

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Air in pump maybe? Did it get better over time? 

 

And, even if it is loud, it is certainly quieter than the built in fans, and it keeps it really cool. I would trade the noise for the performance.

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It's the dual solution to a GPU enclosure. Instead of having an external more powerful GPU, you have external more powerful cooling.

 

As for LTT doing consultancy it's not really in the core businness of making video infotainment about tech products.

 

For LTT Labs on the other hand is a great fit, since the expertise you need to test rigorously is the same you need to find flaws (which is not the same expertise you need to find solutions) dedicating some percentage of the team time to find flaws on early products/prototypes sounds like a solid businness decision.

My System: i7-8700 // Noctua NH-U9B SE2 CPU Cooler + Noctua 2X120mm 2X140mm system fans// Gigabyte Z370 HD3// 2x8GB DDR4-3000 Corsair // Asus TUF 3080 10GB // Itek Replay2.0 Modified for airflow // Corsair RM650x Gold modular // 32GB M.2 Optane + 2X120GB Kingston A400 + 2X1TB WD10EZEX 7200 RPM +1X USB3.0 External 6TB 5400RPM // Displays: LG 27GL850 IPS 1440p 144Hz + Philips 273V5LHAB TN 1080p 60Hz + Acer ka220hq TN 1080p 60Hz // https://pcpartpicker.com/list/dL42q3

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I think doing industry consulting is good business idea especially when LMG will have the LTT Labs that probably can do industry level testing. Would be kind of stupid not to offer that for those willing to pay to use your labs and experience just what they want.

 

But doing it mainly for video content, I would consult against that. Of course if the company wants LMG to make a public video from their prototype LMG would be kind of an idiot not to. But doing it like "We will run the tests and get you results only if we can make a public video out of it" would be bad.

 

Main thing why I advice to open the LTT Labs for industry testing is that no matter how many videos of how many components and devices is in the planning and making, there will be downtime and it would be kind of stupid not to monetize that if possible. Turning that downtime into money wouldn't mean LMG would change from media company into a testing company and ditch making videos, more or less that would mean more content because that would allow LMG to generate money to buy new and interesting stuff that isn't probably something you would normally see because A) they would have funds to do it and B) they would have a need for them.

Like testing how durable keyboard switches really are would be a good idea but the equipment for that could cost a lot. While Linus could yeet his money at it and get them just because he can that would be kind of stupid because there isn't that many different switches in the world. But if a company contacted LTT Labs to test their new switches that they are developing and they would be willing to pay X amount (that would be significant part of the cost of the equipment) and LTT Labs would have workforce available to do the testing, even if the company said that LMG wasn't allowed to publicly even state they have been in contact with each other it would still be more money for LMG and a good reason to get the testing equipment because it wouldn't be just for 1 or 2 videos but something they can in the future provide to other companies.

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Hi LTT Team

 

Onto the question if you should do early product review, I do have a split opinion.

Pros:

- Nicer view into the development process

- Newest and hottest tech and crazy ideas

 

Cons:

- Errors that may get fixed are in the mind of the consumers (associating the finished product with weaknesses it does not have anymore)

- Makes a full review harder?

- Disclosure of what has been looked at might get complicated (especially if there are consulting services being done under NDA)

 

Idea:

If a manufacturer wants feedback on prototype, this is a consulting service and should have a monetary reward. This is supposed to cover the costs for testing the prototype.

For that, the prototype video footage stays private, so that the manufacturer has time to fix stuff.

With the release of the final product, the prototype video can be included and at the same time, it can be pointed out, which issues have been fixed.

 

The target of this video would nicely point out, what hurdles were still to overcome, while the manufacturer is not at risk at attracting copycats or damaging its reputation.

On top, the viewers still have the correct opinion of the product and do not associate it with flaws it does not have.

This also gives full disclosure since it shows that LMG has been involved in the development of the product.

 

This would be amazing for things of big manufacturers like Dell etc.

 

If a small product from e.g. a start up is being showcased, it may be better to make it a "labs focused" video.

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Or just buy a laptop with a 3060Q whatever the fuck and have an eGPU dock that works in the future instead of a watercooling dock that only works with one laptop.

Workstation:  12900KF @ 5.2Ghz || MSI Pro-A Z690 DDR4|| EVGA FTW3 3090 1000W || G.Skill 3866 4x8GB || Corsair AX1500i || whole-house loop.

LANRig/GuestGamingBox: 9900nonK || Gigabyte Z390 Master || ASUS TUF 3090 650W shunt || Corsair SF600 || CPU+GPU watercooled 280 rad pull only || whole-house loop.

Server Router (Untangle): 8350K @ 4.7Ghz || ASRock Z370 ITX || 2x8GB 3200 || PicoPSU 250W, running on AX1200i || whole-house loop.

Server Compute/Storage: 10850K @ 5.1Ghz || Gigabyte Z490 Ultra || LSI 9280i-24 port || 4TB Samsung 860 Evo, 5x10TB Seagate Enterprise Raid 6, 4x8TB Seagate Archive Backup ||  whole-house loop.

Laptop: HP Elitebook 840 G8 (Intel 1185G7) + 3060 Thunderbolt Dock, Razer Blade Stealth 13" 2017 (Intel 8550U)

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Two inch thick laptops are one thing - finding ones that had proper components inside was another. Take the HP zd7000 with the desktop P4 inside. Large, heavy and thick yet with just a single fan was able to keep it running cool. Most importantly that fan ran FOREVER and never once needed replacing. I still have my unit and indeed it still powers on and works. Tell me Windows XP doesn't last forever LOL.

 

On the polar opposite of that argument you had the Toshiba Qosmio X305. Dual fans keeping cool a neutered mobile quad core because Toshiba in their infinite wisdom stupidity LOCKED THE BIOS on a chip with an unlocked multiplier!!! Worse, the pathetic bearings used in their fans would crap out after a measly 5000 hours. I cannot tell you how many times I had to replace the fans in my X305 (I am staring at 3 broken ones right now with two more on their last legs inside the unit). They were also incredibly hard to source, my last two replacements coming direct from a Toshiba rep I spoke with at CES who most likely knew something and had some sympathy for me. But the real nightmare of this laptop was disassembly. Instead of just popping off the bottom panel like on the HP model you had to remove the top cover, remove the keyboard, remove the storage/battery, remove the system board, carefully unclip a bunch of very delicate ribbon cables and then you could get to the fans that were right at the bottom of everything. Add reassembly and you had a several hour process for a task that could have been done in 15 minutes if only the bottom panel above where the fans were positioned could have been removable. Making something THAT DIFFICULT to access that fails THAT FREQUENTLY is the absolute pinnacle of bad design. Yeah, Toshiba pulled out of the laptop business some years ago - WE KNOW WHY!!!

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32 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

eGPU dock

Which one? Which method of plugging in? How do you know that they won't continue to make these laptops? Plus, eGPU docks are far more expensive, for the same performance. Often the dock will go for $300 alone, not including the GPU, or in some cases, even the PSU.

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10 minutes ago, DANK_AS_gay said:

Which one? Which method of plugging in? How do you know that they won't continue to make these laptops? Plus, eGPU docks are far more expensive, for the same performance. Often the dock will go for $300 alone, not including the GPU, or in some cases, even the PSU.

They're all thunderbolt nowadays.  

 

On the cost front...you're paying more for a 3080 Ti mobile part than buying a 3070Ti desktop card that will have similar performance, that's not even adding the cost of whatever their external watercooling thing is.  Secondary bonus: you can resell a 3070Ti desktop card when you want to upgrade later.  With this laptop it's so niche you're going to be fucked trying to resell it years later.  

 

In an analogy: they're pounding a square peg into a round hole instead of just making a round peg.  "let's build a thin form factor laptop that's really powerful...but make it so you have to have some ridiculous watercooling box for it to actually be useful".   -----orrrrrrrr you just make the laptop bigger and not need a ridiculous watercooling box.  ----orrrrr make the laptop less powerful and replace the box with an eGPU.

Workstation:  12900KF @ 5.2Ghz || MSI Pro-A Z690 DDR4|| EVGA FTW3 3090 1000W || G.Skill 3866 4x8GB || Corsair AX1500i || whole-house loop.

LANRig/GuestGamingBox: 9900nonK || Gigabyte Z390 Master || ASUS TUF 3090 650W shunt || Corsair SF600 || CPU+GPU watercooled 280 rad pull only || whole-house loop.

Server Router (Untangle): 8350K @ 4.7Ghz || ASRock Z370 ITX || 2x8GB 3200 || PicoPSU 250W, running on AX1200i || whole-house loop.

Server Compute/Storage: 10850K @ 5.1Ghz || Gigabyte Z490 Ultra || LSI 9280i-24 port || 4TB Samsung 860 Evo, 5x10TB Seagate Enterprise Raid 6, 4x8TB Seagate Archive Backup ||  whole-house loop.

Laptop: HP Elitebook 840 G8 (Intel 1185G7) + 3060 Thunderbolt Dock, Razer Blade Stealth 13" 2017 (Intel 8550U)

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2 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

With this laptop it's so niche

Water-cooled laptop with the highest end GPU and CPU (just about) available is going to be worth a ton in the future, especially if you have all of the parts (it has an interesting quirk, it is the best of the best for this "era" of gaming, so no compromises). Similar to old laptops, the ones that are high-end are worth a massive amount of money (so long as it isn't at the bottom of the "antique curve"). Plus, you are likely going to get many years of use out of this, 6-8 years I would imagine. Then when you sell it, it'll still be worth 800$. Shoot, GTX 780m laptops are $400 depending on the laptop.

 

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There's a pretty simple solution for the water drain issue, use something like a tiny version of hydraulic quick connect fittings. They have spring loaded metal part that seats on a rubber seal so that when they're disconnected only a drop or two of fluid is lost. I understand they worry about water heating up and expanding inside the laptop, but having it not pour out on disconnection and giving a tool to plug into the laptop to drain it over a sink later would be a better solution than just letting it pee on your desk when you unplug it. Ideally something more like a drain function where you could have the pump just suck the water out of the laptop cooler into the external cooler would be the best but heck if I know how to make that work cheaply enough.

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5 hours ago, AnonymousGuy said:

They're all thunderbolt nowadays.  

 

On the cost front...you're paying more for a 3080 Ti mobile part than buying a 3070Ti desktop card that will have similar performance, that's not even adding the cost of whatever their external watercooling thing is.  Secondary bonus: you can resell a 3070Ti desktop card when you want to upgrade later.  With this laptop it's so niche you're going to be fucked trying to resell it years later.  

 

In an analogy: they're pounding a square peg into a round hole instead of just making a round peg.  "let's build a thin form factor laptop that's really powerful...but make it so you have to have some ridiculous watercooling box for it to actually be useful".   -----orrrrrrrr you just make the laptop bigger and not need a ridiculous watercooling box.  ----orrrrr make the laptop less powerful and replace the box with an eGPU.

Sounds like this isn't for you, but there are definitely a TON of people out there whom need a laptop for it's ease of mobility and use case.  The LPP isn't required for the system to be useful in any regard like you're stating in your analogy, it simply enhances a mobile product to essentially provide near desktop performance and cooling capabilities when the user returns home.  We're trying to merge the best of both world's here and we think it does a great job.

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4 hours ago, Bitter said:

There's a pretty simple solution for the water drain issue, use something like a tiny version of hydraulic quick connect fittings. They have spring loaded metal part that seats on a rubber seal so that when they're disconnected only a drop or two of fluid is lost. I understand they worry about water heating up and expanding inside the laptop, but having it not pour out on disconnection and giving a tool to plug into the laptop to drain it over a sink later would be a better solution than just letting it pee on your desk when you unplug it. Ideally something more like a drain function where you could have the pump just suck the water out of the laptop cooler into the external cooler would be the best but heck if I know how to make that work cheaply enough.

There could be quick connect connections also they could put a safety valve or PV valve in case of hight pressure single drop of liquid might come out and because it is liquid it will be enough to balance the pressure although what they did probably was the best since it is the cheapest easiest and most space constrained option of not doing anything.

 

I love the lttlabs idea since I like Linus he and Steve are mostly right about everything I am glad both are more serious about their labs and test equipment.

 

I always use a laptop since 2018 when I sold my desktop so these high performance laptops are awesome they are small you can take them to anywhere and as long you are connected to AC performance is really close to desktop storage screen audio qualiy has improved so far too

 

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Would much rather have just the coolant tubes and quick disconnects be purchesable seperatley end in g1/4 threads and use my own rad and pump tbh.

 

 

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Maybe open source all your consulting output for all manufacturers? You'll already have pretty in depth info after LTT labs stuff about a product, so you can redact some stuff to keep the consulting attractive enough for the partner.

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7 hours ago, Eluktronics said:

The LPP isn't required for the system to be useful in any regard like you're stating in your analogy, it simply enhances a mobile product to essentially provide near desktop performance and cooling capabilities when the user returns home.  We're trying to merge the best of both world's here and we think it does a great job.

Ah, so the meaning is a bit more focused on both a laptop and as a "desktop performer"? I guess that could have carried over to the video (might have in their previous one). so I assume there could be different methods for it for future builds.

 

also, rip sponsor @AlexTheGreatish 69

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17 hours ago, Thaldor said:

I think doing industry consulting is good business idea especially when LMG will have the LTT Labs that probably can do industry level testing. Would be kind of stupid not to offer that for those willing to pay to use your labs and experience just what they want.

Big issue which prohibits this: independence.

Once you start consulting the same companies with the same people which review there products you created a dependency which has the risk to compromise the your standards. It is somewhat like accepting PR money for writing a unbiased review.

 

Good middle ground would be videos like this. Companies send products early enough to fix concerns but late enough in the development that it is a product. LMG basically would produce a fun video and provides feedback to the manufacturer. 

 

What is in for LMG? unique content

What is in for the manufacturer? "consulting"

What is not involved? money

 

 

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I have an LPP system her buyed it from xmg not Eluktronics and ist so awsme too have it, it makes the laptop so cold with i7 12700h and rtx 3080 ti

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This product is a Tsinghua Tongfang ODM model, there aren't much a brand can change to address your complaint because it's an ODM product.

 

Other brands using this ODM model include Machenike and Mechrevo (Chinese domestic laptop brands). They use exactly the same mould.

https://global.machenike.com/products/s17

https://www.mechrevo.com/content/fullks_details37_2073.html#anchor5

 

Only top brands develop their own mould, these small brands either use Tongfang mould or Clevo mould. This is so well known I'm surprised you don't seem to realise...

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9 hours ago, James Evens said:

Big issue which prohibits this: independence.

Once you start consulting the same companies with the same people which review there products you created a dependency which has the risk to compromise the your standards. It is somewhat like accepting PR money for writing a unbiased review.

 

Good middle ground would be videos like this. Companies send products early enough to fix concerns but late enough in the development that it is a product. LMG basically would produce a fun video and provides feedback to the manufacturer. 

 

What is in for LMG? unique content

What is in for the manufacturer? "consulting"

What is not involved? money

From that point of view actually running a review YT channel is more compromising for consulting than consulting is for the YT channel.

 

As in for example as a company who is developing new gaming mouse and want unbiased opinion (non-public) on it from someone who has a ton of experience of the field and knows a ton of the tech (of course you are going to compensate for the time they need to take out of their normal work to form that opinion and do their research), would you send a prototype to a person who has made a video "top 10 gaming mouses ever" (not LTT video) which for some "mystical and totally unknown" reason claims the #1 is the newest, shiniest and most expensive from a certain company? And to underline, you don't want any marketing speeches or brown nose stuff, you want to hear the honest and unbiased opinion without sugarcoating is your design actually good enough to spend even more money to start producing it or should you spare your money and do something else.

 

And about holding on to ones integrity as unbiased reviewer on YT and not getting lynched by a mob. Want to take a guess how many viewers thought Dysons were really that good and channels weren't paid a cent but gave 100% honest opinion why everyone should also buy Dyson?

I can give you a different answer: There were people (viewers) getting offended by how certain other tech youtubers made fun out of those Dyson videos.

Spoiler

For clarity, IMHO business is business. I don't say someone is biased or their opinion is bad because they took the money as long as they made it clear that viewer should take the video with a grain of salt because they are sugarcoating it, they aren't lying about anything and the opinions are their owns but they are saying the things nicer.

 

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@Thaldor This opens the door for shady practises: It is not a secret some manufacturer look at how well reviewed there product are on a channel/publication before buying advertisement's. In other words indirectly threatening to revoke advertisement revenue if you publish a critical review. As a result subconsciously or not you publish more friendly versions of reviews to please the manufacturer.

 

If you now add a consulting branch into the equation the exposure grows. Let's say example labs has a employee Jerry.

He knows company XYZ is regularly asking for consulting (as he does it) so it is an important customer creating a significant cash flow. Either by past events or other within the industry he knows XYZ punish media outlet for bad reviews. One day Jerry works on a review and sees the product is trash but he doesn't want any potential trouble with his boss as Jerry works hard on getting the promotion. What could he do? Fake the data/measurement or "just" present the data showing how great the product is.Just like this your entire review process got compromised.

 

Sounds fictional? It isn't.

Famous institutions repeatedly have issues with exactly this type of behavior/incentives. For a real world example take a look at the case of Jan Hendrik Schön who worked at the time at Bell Labs (never heard of Bell labs? They have one if not the first transistor in there archive as it was developed by them).

 

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@James EvensYou are talking more about problems that are always present in media reviews, no matter what they do in the side, there is always the questions about integrity to their audience.

 

That Jerry-example is purely a company problem. I would say if a LTT writer would need to fake test results to get GeForce RTX 3030 with 512MB DD3 memory look usable in fear that Linus would hinder their possibilities to get a promotion or even fire them just because they didn't make gold out of shit and their script could have costed LMG the chance to get review units directly from Nvidia. That would be a huge problem in LMG in every case, especially if it was going to only cost them the sideshow, that would be problem within LMG management and lead, not problem in that they would be doing something extra.

Just to underline, that if a worker was to write a review which would cost the company not only consultation but also reviewer privilege to company XYZ products, would be the smallest problem in that example. That a worker must fear problems with their boss if they do their work well and right is THE BIGGEST PROBLEM.

Especially with a production like LTT where (as far as I think) writers do the tests (if done beforehand) and write the script, which is then approved and possibly edited by Linus who most often will also host the video made from that script. And personally I would like to think that if it came to that (BIG if there) at most Linus would edit the script to be more neutral and have positive vibe to it and tell the writer they did good job, but more likely I think Linus would go full Steve and "fuck even Nvidia" make the video and if it costed partnership, that what it costed they will find a way to get around that (I still believe GN is out of the Nvidia "trusted reviewer" list and gets their review units elsewhere, fix me if I'm wrong).

 

But trust me, those questions are small compared to the questions that come when a company pays someone to get their opinion, expert guess even as small thing as to take a look. Like we are going from the world where "they must be shill!" is pretty common comment and even huge mistakes in integrity are often overlooked and forgotten after the next video pops up to a world where in some cases they hire people to do background checks so they can be sure they aren't paying for someone who feeds their dog food made by a company partially owned by another company that is their competitor (not really but with some companies we ain't far). And to make sure I'm not talking about university testing that more or less is public or something company does for marketing but the testing in the development phase where company comes like "hey, we have this new switch can you test how durable it is and give us your professional opinion is it a good thing to spent the next $1M to polish it and another $1M to start producing it".

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I like the idea of Labs staff reviewing prototypes, and LTT staff makes a video about projects they think are good for the audience.

I also like the idea of livestreaming reality TV, like the Truman show, the Labs office.

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