I Can’t Believe I Liked This…

[hishnash]

Just now, MIIIK said:

Even tho I do see your point, I would say LTT stands above this. Just check what they did on secret shopper. And ofc the point of having access to review models is a valid point ... it just got a bitter taste this time. Like if DELL just told them to ONLY compare to that specific model. Normally LTT does a great Job on comparing Price per $

I think there is a difference in how much you upset a company/representative there if you go buy something and shit all over it than if you get a pre-release sample and shit all over it.  I don't think LTT need the money saving but getting hardware in advance for them is much more valuable than the money saved buying it... 

the only other option I can see for the skew-ups in comparison is that this was filmed before the 14" was announced or that dell failed to tell LTT the price this laptop would cost and they thought they were reviewing a $1300 laptop and not a $2000 one.

Compared to the 14" MBP M1 Pro this laptop is just not at all good (I expect the only positive factor it has is 1" smaller and lighter). 

[MIIIK]

20 minutes ago, hishnash said:

I think there is a difference in how much you upset a company/representative there if you go buy something and shit all over it than if you get a pre-release sample and shit all over it.  I don't think LTT need the money saving but getting hardware in advance for them is much more valuable than the money saved buying it... 

the only other option I can see for the skew-ups in comparison is that this was filmed before the 14" was announced or that dell failed to tell LTT the price this laptop would cost and they thought they were reviewing a $1300 laptop and not a $2000 one.

Compared to the 14" MBP M1 Pro this laptop is just not at all good (I expect the only positive factor it has is 1" smaller and lighter). 

I don't even think that the new DELL is bad. It looks nice and I bet it feels nice as well. Checking the Numbers in there MBP M1 Pro review the benchmarks are not as good as the Dell Laptop. (In the 2 they did here) Like Cinebench on the M1 Pro was around 9500 or something like that in multicore. And the new DELL one got a higher score. So I don't mind at all that the new one Is better then the Mac. 

But I agree with you and I think we both see this "review" and take it with a grain of salt. It is just sad to see how bad the apple community is treated in these videos. 

And I don't think this Video was filmed before the M1 Pro was out. I think they disclose that normally. Like when they did an intel extreme upgrade they got a GeForce Card from the 20 Series and they disclosed that this was filmed before the 30 Series came out. 

 

I just would love to get any sort of statement. I am super curious on what lead them to that decision. 

[Imbadatnames]

1 hour ago, MIIIK said:

I don't even think that the new DELL is bad. It looks nice and I bet it feels nice as well. Checking the Numbers in there MBP M1 Pro review the benchmarks are not as good as the Dell Laptop. (In the 2 they did here) Like Cinebench on the M1 Pro was around 9500 or something like that in multicore. And the new DELL one got a higher score. So I don't mind at all that the new one Is better then the Mac. 

But I agree with you and I think we both see this "review" and take it with a grain of salt. It is just sad to see how bad the apple community is treated in these videos. 

And I don't think this Video was filmed before the M1 Pro was out. I think they disclose that normally. Like when they did an intel extreme upgrade they got a GeForce Card from the 20 Series and they disclosed that this was filmed before the 30 Series came out. 

 

I just would love to get any sort of statement. I am super curious on what lead them to that decision. 

I would like to see if the see numbers were on battery or wall power though. 

[Just that Mario]

11 hours ago, whalo said:

Linus said the laptop was 1300 dollars. The cheapest macbook pro is also 1300 dollars. 

The very base model of this is 1299. M1 MacBook Air, which they compared this laptop to, is 999. Literally even the much worse base model of Dell XPS 13 Plus is 33% more expensive than the MacBook. The model they have is hard to price, since Dells own website doesn't even have the i7-1280P CPU option. Best you can configure is i7-1260P and then price is 1909.

[Imbadatnames]

9 hours ago, Jaesop said:

Because it's a comparison of 13 inch laptops. That's said a couple times I think.

XPS is 13.4”. Fact is they’re comparing an older, cheaper product to a new more expensive product saying that the XPS costs 1300 where as the config they have is around 2000

[Imbadatnames]

1 hour ago, hishnash said:

I think there is a difference in how much you upset a company/representative there if you go buy something and shit all over it than if you get a pre-release sample and shit all over it.  I don't think LTT need the money saving but getting hardware in advance for them is much more valuable than the money saved buying it... 

the only other option I can see for the skew-ups in comparison is that this was filmed before the 14" was announced or that dell failed to tell LTT the price this laptop would cost and they thought they were reviewing a $1300 laptop and not a $2000 one.

Compared to the 14" MBP M1 Pro this laptop is just not at all good (I expect the only positive factor it has is 1" smaller and lighter). 

The 14” MBP is only 0.8” bigger that the 13” XPS. The XPS is 13.4 the MBP is 14.2

[Blademaster91]

8 hours ago, MIIIK said:

Comparing it to this 2 year old chip is far from fair. And the comments are super biased as well. When apple releases anything the comments go "For that price I can get X or Y and that's way better". When someone like Dell releases something like this "We compare 13" laptops".

I think its fair enough as it isn't Dell's fault apple hasn't released anything to compete with Intel 12th gen, in a review a price point is usually compared, and I see plenty of comments here from people saying just buy a mac even though the person asking for help say they don't want a mac.

8 hours ago, MIIIK said:

Stating that the baseline 13" MBP costs nearly as much as this maxed out from Dell is not rly the best answer as well. Yes you need to spend a lot extra to match the 16GB Ram and the SSD space. BUT when you check the base specs of the 14" one ...look at that. Starting at 16GB Ram and double the SSD space as the 13" MBP. Oh and the 1300$ DELL Basemodel does come with 8GB of RAM as well ... With a 200$ Upgrade Option to 16GB ... just like the MBP.

I doubt most people buy the base configs, 8GB ram isn't much nowadays, even for basic multi-tasking, although the Dell is still cheaper with 16GB, and you wouldn't have to buy the upgraded SSD when it has a M.2 slot.

8 hours ago, MIIIK said:

Using 2 Benchmarks where this older Chip vom Apple falls behind has a bitter taste as well. In the M1 pro Review there where like 7 Benchmarks and a few more applicational tests. 

 

When Apple releases a Laptop with only 2 ports? Unacceptable. When someone else does it ? No big deal. Like it is a minor hiccup this time? 

Yes the Touch Bar was not rly good implemented but had a way bigger potential that was just not used. But when Dell does it - way better? 

 

Apple releases short travel keys (witch turned out to be super bad - ill admit that!) it was a big fail. But DELL does it and without any longterm tests ... way better? How? What double standards do we use here?

I don't see the point of benchmarks on a 13" laptop with only a few ports, its not like you can do any serious work without being limited by I/O or the cpu will throttle anyway.

And I don't see where Linus said the lack ports on the Dell was acceptable, not even getting a headphone jack on the Dell is a significant drawback in my opinion, and if Dell made the laptop just a few millimeters thicker then there would be plenty of room for ram slots as well.  And when Apple releases a laptop with only 2 ports they charge significantly more for it than laptops with more ports, use proprietary dongles, and the fanbase insists the dongles are great because the laptop is so thin, even though you need to carry around all those dongles to get a usable laptop. I think that Apple is to blame for other laptop manufacturers copying the ridiculous design of form over function, and I think people will have to demand right to repair to bring back a decent selection of ports, and replaceable RAM.

I don't see point in a touchbar at all, but LTT may prefer the Dell touchbar as its just simple buttons, no weird screen that tried to replace function keys.

What double standards? Dell managed to make a short travel keyboard, which still apparently feels good to type on, I don't see what double standards they have here, it just seems like mac fans are salty because a reviewer had something good to say about a competing product.

[hishnash]

15 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

What double standards? Dell managed to make a short travel keyboard, which still apparently feels good to type on, I don't see what double standards they have here, it just seems like mac fans are salty because a reviewer had something good to say about a competing product.

The double standard here is not at minimum asking the question as to if this low travel keyboard will have issues with dirt (as all other low travel non me brain keyboards have had and has LLT has rightfully pointed out in the past). 

Also one of the biggest issue with the Touch Bar was the lack of tactile buttons since you could configure it to just have static things to tap on much like what dell has done but you still needed to look down at it since it did not have the tactile buttons and it was way to easy to accidentally trigger since it was captive and any touch for long enough registered even with 0 pressure.  Dells solution will have all of these issues for people who had issues with the Touch Bar.. 

 

 

[Imbadatnames]

59 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I think its fair enough as it isn't Dell's fault apple hasn't released anything to compete with Intel 12th gen, in a review a price point is usually compared, and I see plenty of comments here from people saying just buy a mac even though the person asking for help say they don't want a mac.

I doubt most people buy the base configs, 8GB ram isn't much nowadays, even for basic multi-tasking, although the Dell is still cheaper with 16GB, and you wouldn't have to buy the upgraded SSD when it has a M.2 slot.

I don't see the point of benchmarks on a 13" laptop with only a few ports, its not like you can do any serious work without being limited by I/O or the cpu will throttle anyway.

And I don't see where Linus said the lack ports on the Dell was acceptable, not even getting a headphone jack on the Dell is a significant drawback in my opinion, and if Dell made the laptop just a few millimeters thicker then there would be plenty of room for ram slots as well.  And when Apple releases a laptop with only 2 ports they charge significantly more for it than laptops with more ports, use proprietary dongles, and the fanbase insists the dongles are great because the laptop is so thin, even though you need to carry around all those dongles to get a usable laptop. I think that Apple is to blame for other laptop manufacturers copying the ridiculous design of form over function, and I think people will have to demand right to repair to bring back a decent selection of ports, and replaceable RAM.

I don't see point in a touchbar at all, but LTT may prefer the Dell touchbar as its just simple buttons, no weird screen that tried to replace function keys.

What double standards? Dell managed to make a short travel keyboard, which still apparently feels good to type on, I don't see what double standards they have here, it just seems like mac fans are salty because a reviewer had something good to say about a competing product.

De definitely said it was acceptable because of “performance”

[MIIIK]

I feel like we could boil this down to the fact that the video made it look like the tested machine was 1300$ 

[hishnash]

4 hours ago, MIIIK said:

I feel like we could boil this down to the fact that the video made it look like the tested machine was 1300$ 

That and they only tested 2 cpu based raytracing task and extrapolated that these 2 tasks are somehow indicative of workloads used by people considering this laptop. LLT should know better by this point that to consider the cpu rendering of cinema 4d a useful means of comparing machines for people that are not doing cpu rendering in cinema 4d. 

[hishnash]

Having watched Dave2D's video on this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fPj6mj-M_k he has multiple sections that are word for word identical with LTT so it looks like both of them likely got a very short time to do this review and thus mostly copy pasted from he reviewers slide dec.. and both of them were unable to provide pricing of the model they tested and were clearly not given access to the model that they provided the price for.  

I feel maybe this video was a very short notice video I had hoped with the massive investment into Labs LTT would also be attempting to push thier own content more in this direction as well, aka when getting a review unit maybe not just using the pre-provided script from the manufacture 

I expect as more and more of these videos go out we will see these patterns from this I would not be surprised if someone could collate all these videos and figure out 90% of the reverse pre-writes script/guide provided by dell... are all these content creates so dependant on staying in dells good books or did they just not think this content would have a high enough RIO to justify doing a proper review so a simple copy past is good enough?

 

[MIIIK]

I just read a few comments on D2Ds Video ... and there again many Ppl do believe that the machine in the video is a 1300$ Laptop. How can these 2 big players in the review world output such a bad and biased content piece ? 

 

@AlexTheGreatish i don't know if it is okay to tag you here - but is there a way to get any sort of comment on this in the forum or WAN ? Cheers  

6 hours ago, hishnash said:

Having watched Dave2D's video on this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fPj6mj-M_k he has multiple sections that are word for word identical with LTT so it looks like both of them likely got a very short time to do this review and thus mostly copy pasted from he reviewers slide dec.. and both of them were unable to provide pricing of the model they tested and were clearly not given access to the model that they provided the price for.  

I feel maybe this video was a very short notice video I had hoped with the massive investment into Labs LTT would also be attempting to push thier own content more in this direction as well, aka when getting a review unit maybe not just using the pre-provided script from the manufacture 

I expect as more and more of these videos go out we will see these patterns from this I would not be surprised if someone could collate all these videos and figure out 90% of the reverse pre-writes script/guide provided by dell... are all these content creates so dependant on staying in dells good books or did they just not think this content would have a high enough RIO to justify doing a proper review so a simple copy past is good enough?

 

And yes they where not just unable to provide price for the used machine ... it was framed to look like this machine is 1300. And it is super interesting to compare the two videos. I do know that company's will provide a Cheatcheet with suggested talking points and that is absolutely fair and okay because when I release a new product I want to bring attention to the things I changed / added and where I am being proud of or see them as valid selling points. But somewhat misleading is rly not in the interest of us, the LTT Views. 

For DELL this Content piece was a success ... "Superior Laptop for a small price that can beat the big bad Apple" - msg sent and as you can read in the comments - msg received as well. 

For LTT it looks somewhat bad because of this thread here (ofc we are a small group talking about that) 

 

And Consumers may order a machine hoping for the MacBook Pro killer and getting a browsing machine with a futuristic keyboard. 

[hishnash]

24 minutes ago, MIIIK said:

And yes they where not just unable to provide price for the used machine ... it was framed to look like this machine is 1300

Yer the comments Dave2D had about pricing to last years model saying the 1300 price was ok for the entry level even through it was 300 more since it provided twice the perf does not make any sense since he did not have the 1300 model to run any tests on, the fast that the 2000+ (we don't yet know the price) model performed twice as good as the top of the like 13" model from the year before does not mean anything about the entry level price.. it does make me think this was another talking point from the review guide. 

[Jaesop]

On 5/1/2022 at 6:58 AM, Imbadatnames said:

XPS is 13.4”.

And the MacBook is 13.3. Are you taking issue with .1 inches?

 

Quote

Fact is they’re comparing an older, cheaper product to a new more expensive product saying that the XPS costs 1300 where as the config they have is around 2000

Whether it's older doesn't matter, it's a currently for sale product. But yeah being cheaper is part of the point.

[othersteve]

Registered just to say a few things.

 

First of all, as a professional laptop reviewer myself at a couple of major websites for 10+ years, I sincerely doubt LTT spent a day or two with the machine and then "copy/pasted" from marketing slides. Sorry, that's just not a thing. Even the major PR departments discourage that type of coverage.

 

Secondly, the lack of ports is a little disappointing, but honestly, I just don't see why some people are considering it a dealbreaker for this segment. This is an ultraportable machine that stresses, above all else, portability. Battery life isn't great on the OLED model, but especially on the FHD+, it's all-day. You don't need to charge and use multiple other USB ports under such a scenario anyway, and if you're back at home and wish you could, grab yourself a $15 hub or a cheap dock and use it while you're sitting at your desk. Those, by the way, also can be found with decent DACs and headphone ports, so if that's the end of the world you can solve that problem at the same time.

 

Sure, it's not ideal lacking the headphone port or only having 2x USB-C/Thunderbolt 4, but nothing with laptops is ideal. It's all about sacrifice and balance. You choose your market and you aim at that customer. The XPS 13 Plus customer is one who probably won't mind working around this minor occasional inconvenience from time to time. And they also probably already own some pretty sweet Bluetooth earbuds.

 

Just my thoughts.

[Ruust]

 

most likely you are right!

soft worktime