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I predicted the future! - GRAID SupremeRAID

jakkuh_t
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So in short, it doesn't do squat for reading. Since we technically don't have to parity check when reading. Ie, the write bandwidth is going to be bottlenecked regardless. Though, I guess most storage arrays are typically more interested in reading a lot rather than writing. Hopefully it can be used to check array integrity to protect against bitrotting over time.

 

It isn't surprising that the CPU usage increases when it is writing, since it needs to send the data off to the GPU, then respond on the returning data and send that off to the storage. Ie, it does more work compared to just reading from the disks.

 

But it is an interesting application for a GPU, though I wouldn't be surprised if we see an ASIC for the application sooner or later.

 

Though, in regards to RAID 5 vs 10, I personally would go with 6 in that situation, since 2 drives of redundancy is usually good enough, especially if one has a hot spare. (but one should still have a backup. Unless the data is worthless and only an "annoyance" to loose, like a fluid simulation cache in blender.)

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By bypassing the CPU with the flow of data do you think there are certain security measures being bypassed now?

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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5 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

By bypassing the CPU with the flow of data do you think there are certain security measures being bypassed now?

For this RAID accelerator, I would suspect it to run an application on the CPU that shuffles the "heavy" tasks over to the GPU, likely using OpenCL or perhaps CUDA to do the work, get the data back and take the appropriate action that the GPU computed. So here I wouldn't see all that much room for security concerns. (though, having one application on a GPU fiddle with data belonging to another application sharing the same GPU might be a problem, but I haven't read any such security issues as of yet and GPUs are used for a lot of compute applications.)

 

However, in the future when direct storage APIs gets more common, we might start seeing hackers tie a bunch of security issues together to cause havoc. (But at the same time, Windows is almost an open box for any application to roam around inside of as they please. And other OSes doesn't seem that much better to be fair. Finding privilege escalations in Linux is almost a game among penetration testers these days, have seen a few different approaches just last year.)

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As someone who works as a storage admin I don't really like this because it looks like a proprietary solution and I've had lots of pain and suffering dealing with that in the past. I might look more into these if they become more common. You want common every day open source tools because you can always obtain them. Storage lives forever and in 30 years GRaid may not support that product but *you* may have to. (no joke, I've seen Sun NAS's that old)

Linus is also missing the point of Raid 10. Raid 10 can read in parallel from many of the devices in a mirror pool (at least with ZFS).. because the data is on more than one device, meaning you get far more device bandwidth. Raid 5 is serial where your data is only on one device. Speed vs Capacity. If capacity was the only concern everyone would use Raid 5. (note: nobody uses Raid 5, both Raid 5 and Raid 6 are considered depreciated and unsafe in enterprise due to lack of parity on uncorrectable disk errors in "working" devices on resilver) Raid 10 and Raid 60 are happy mediums where performance is a concern. The bulk of my systems are a stripe on 3x mirrored pairs.

Offloading the checksum calculations would be cool.. maybe there is a better way though. CPU load isn't a big concern at the moment because usually storage is all that CPU is doing and compute nodes would be doing compute. Yeah, it's a waste but there is a lot of wasted performance in enterprise to be honest.

Edit: Yes, I read the documentation on this. It uses a separate kernel module and has to be licensed. Hard pass. There are better ways to solve this problem that are more flexible and work with existing technology. Perhaps a crypto accelerator card?

"Only proprietary software vendors want proprietary software." - Dexter's Law

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I thought I'd seen these types of cards before from Microsemi/Microchip.

 

Is this Microchip SmartRAID 3200 essentially the same type of thing as the GRAID SR-1000?

 

Info: https://www.microchip.com/en-us/products/storage/adaptec-smartraid-raid-adapters

 

PDF: https://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/00003270.pdf

 

GRAID

Info: https://www.graidtech.com/solution

 

PDF: https://download.graidtech.com/document/spec-sheet/sr-1000/graid-supremeraid-sr-1000-spec-sheet-v1.2.4-20220321.pdf

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It would have been better to see the direct comparison between mdraid and this graid system, on the same hardware as a proper back to back comparison.

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see screenshot PCIE Card blue color what model they using

 

i really need sata ports more to storage

 

a6O55uz.png

 

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low-key if it was open-source and use any gpu it would be more appealing because you won't run the risk of them just dropping this project and making these setups unusable.

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I need some clarity:  Are they just using JBOD cards or a RAID controller in JBOD mode?

Phenomenal work guys, it was great to witness the death of hardware RAID.

"There is probably a special circle of Hell reserved for people who force software into a role it was never designed for."
- Radium_Angel

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17 minutes ago, Bigun said:

I need some clarity:  Are they just using JBOD cards or a RAID controller in JBOD mode?

Phenomenal work guys, it was great to witness the death of hardware RAID.

We don't know for absolutely certain how it works, but there is no RAID controller like what you're asking.

 

The GRAID SR-1000 looks like it's just an accelerator to offload the parity checking on read. CPU usage is too high during the write benchmark, so everyone is guessing that parity generation is done in software, and not accelerated. But nobody is claiming to know for sure because the whole thing is proprietary.

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57 minutes ago, sounds said:

We don't know for absolutely certain how it works, but there is no RAID controller like what you're asking.

 

The GRAID SR-1000 looks like it's just an accelerator to offload the parity checking on read. CPU usage is too high during the write benchmark, so everyone is guessing that parity generation is done in software, and not accelerated. But nobody is claiming to know for sure because the whole thing is proprietary.

There might be a software way to take the hardware crypto acceleration modules in Linux and FreeBSD that already exist and use CUDA or OpenCL to accelerate them on a bog standard GPU. Ordinarily those devices are used for web servers running TLS but I don't see why they couldn't be extended..

 

Checksum offloading is a problem we've already had and solved in the industry before.. just not with storage yet.

"Only proprietary software vendors want proprietary software." - Dexter's Law

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This isn't the future either.. the future looks more like what Oxide Computer is doing. https://oxide.computer/

"Only proprietary software vendors want proprietary software." - Dexter's Law

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4 hours ago, jakkuh_t said:

 

I'm curious if this would work with an amd gpu or if we HAVE to use nvidia.

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now, while i am in the middle of watching the video i have come up with a question, where would you buy such a card assuming you wanted to set up a raid array, does nvidia sell them?

Imagine everything i have written in a Linus Voice/ linus tone (Spock live long and prosper gif here ,idk why tho, i guess i just want to say that i like star trek and am waiting for new seasons of the ongoing shows), But seriously, a lot of what i type only makes sense when said in a Linus tone from an older ltt video (circa 2017-2019) basically before he got a beard and a lot of it should make sense even in a Linus with a beard face.

also note as per the latest typing test on my laptop, my accuracy is 69%

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"as of recording the video this only runs on linux server operating systems"

Just out of curiosity, what's so different that it only runs Linux Server OS's? If I recall correctly, Ubuntu and Ubuntu Server only differ in what software comes with it and the presence/absence of a GUI.

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Anybody know what tool they are using to view this infomation?, name ect. thanks 

Screenshot 2022-03-25 203248.png

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1 hour ago, voltpods said:

Anybody know what tool they are using to view this infomation?, name ect. thanks 

https://www.netdata.cloud/ its nice, monitors pretty much everything and can send alerts to telegram/slack/email

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What about file system compression with an array of NVME drives? This could cause massive CPU utilization as well and reduced speeds. Possible to offload computation to GPU also?

NTFS compression is proprietary. What about other implementations.

 

Perhaps with compression, data needing to be compressed or uncompressed needs to pass through the GPU so less advantage vs parity where only number crunching data needs to be transferred back and forth

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1 hour ago, artizirk said:

https://www.netdata.cloud/ its nice, monitors pretty much everything and can send alerts to telegram/slack/email

The alerts work fine now? Had some issues in the past with the docker installation. Also I recommend Glances as simpler and more lightweight alternative @voltpods

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What happened to the video? I was watching... and boom - gone... 🥴

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