"European union" Council adopts position on a common charger for electronic devices

[darknessblade]

Summary

The EU is working on a draft legislation that proposes a common standard port for all smartphones, tablets, digital cameras, headphones, portable speakers and video game consoles.

 

Quotes

Quote

 

The EU is working on a draft legislation that proposes a common standard port for all smartphones, tablets, digital cameras, headphones, portable speakers and video game consoles.

Today, member states agreed on a negotiating mandate for the common charger proposal. The proposal aims to makes sure that it is no longer needed to buy a new charger every time you purchase a new mobile phone or similar item and that all devices can be recharged using the same charger.

 

My thoughts

On 1 end its good that there is going to be 1 standard charger/cable this way you do not need 8+ different cables

[USB type B, Type B 3.0, Type B micro, Type B mini, Type B micro 3.0, Lightningport ETC]

 

Finally apple as well will be forced to use the same charger, May lightning finally DIE a horrible death.

 

But on the other end if there is a new standard/cable that is even better than "USB type C"

Sources

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2022/01/26/council-approves-a-common-charger-for-electronic-devices/

https://consent.yahoo.com/v2/collectConsent?sessionId=3_cc-session_efb5cf25-60cb-48ec-9b68-a8fb873b11ed

legislation submission

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_21_4613

 

Apples opposition:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/23/apple-opposes-eu-plans-to-make-common-charger-port-for-all-devices

[Gamer Schnitzel]

I have said this so often on this forum and every time some American quotes me to talk shit but the EU is the only one who can and will stop those American corporations fucking over the world.

 

Merkel is the reason why Steam has refunds after Gabe stated that they would never implement refunds and now nearly every online platform offers refunds.

[mr moose]

 

I'm torn by this, on one hand I think it is counter productive to force companies to use specific hardware because it does actually stifle innovation and development (though probably not by much), but on the other hand ewaste is a big problem and tackling even 1/10th of it is a good thing,  then on the 3rd hand I think it is good for consumers to be able to reuse their charges and cables (especially if they buy a good quality one), but on the fourth hand phone makers are cunts,  they will charge for the cable they don't include and if every phone maker in the world can use USB and only change up once every 10 years to something better then so can apple.  

 

I don't think you have to be very smart to see that some of these hands can be combined and really aren't much of an argument.

[mr moose]

13 minutes ago, Gamer Schnitzel said:

 

 

Merkel is the reason why Steam has refunds after Gabe stated that they would never implement refunds and now nearly every online platform offers refunds.

What did she do?

 

ACCC in Australia took valve to court in 2014 and won forcing valve to be both fined and to offer refunds.  Which they did in 2015.

 

 

[mr moose]

Just now, Grand Admiral Thrawn said:

I do not see anything innovative in creating a differently shaped charging/data port.

I am sure there is a possibility to keep the shape as it is and improve on other fields just like USB as well as HDMI do.

Whilst I do not have the imagination to think up something that would be unarguably better, I am pretty certain that millions of people have thought over the last 40 years that you can't really improve that plug, socket, device, motor, etc...    I was starting to believe that current silicon tech wouldn't make it as far as it has,  but they are still squeezing it for better, faster and cheaper every year.

 

 

[Imbadatnames]

Imagine if they did this 10 years ago and said Micro USB was the standard. This is really aimed at Apple and lightning and all they’re gonna do is switch to portless. USBC isn’t a great connector and will break the device before the cable.

[darknessblade]

14 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

I'm torn by this, on one hand I think it is counter productive to force companies to use specific hardware because it does actually stifle innovation and development (though probably not by much), but on the other hand ewaste is a big problem and tackling even 1/10th of it is a good thing,  then on the 3rd hand I think it is good for consumers to be able to reuse their charges and cables (especially if they buy a good quality one), but on the fourth hand phone makers are cunts,  they will charge for the cable they don't include and if every phone maker in the world can use USB and only change up once every 10 years to something better then so can apple.  

 

I don't think you have to be very smart to see that some of these hands can be combined and really aren't much of an argument.

Please explain in detail why it stops Innovation? That is only a claim by apple, and they do not give any details of why it would stop innovation

 

99% of all newly released mobile devices use a usb type C, and there is no problem with it.

-------

 

The only group that goes against it is apple, who does nothing but stop innovation by forcing the MFI program on their lightning port accessories [made for iphone/ipad] Which is one of their main profit causes, by having others make MFI products/license the MFI badge/chip.

If they are forced to use USB type C. anyone can use any dock with any device.

-Want to add HDMI "to your iphone", use a usb type C to HDMI adapter.

-Want usb ports: Use a, usb type C to type A adapter

 

With lighting adapters not all adapters work, because it needs a MFI chip, which is made and only made by apple.

not forgetting apple will and can block makers of devices that add features they do not like to see in their devices. [Like expandable storage]

--------

Lightning port itself stops innovation more than anything as it is stuck on usb 2.0 for over 12 years. 

SO why keep a dying standard alive?

--------

I really hope apple starts making enough ruckus about them crying to keep the lightning port, that everyone sees their true anti-consumer nature.

 

With press/ ministers putting pressure on the fact that it uses a outdated standard.

-------

  

4 minutes ago, Imbadatnames said:

Imagine if they did this 10 years ago and said Micro USB was the standard. This is really aimed at Apple and lightning and all they’re gonna do is switch to portless. USBC isn’t a great connector and will break the device before the cable.

Apple changing to port-less is gonna be even worse,

As people don't have any way to easily transfer files from their phone anymore

Want to move that 60GB 4K video from your phone. please pay us 3$ a month for a 205GB cloud storage.

their normal storage is 5GB.

So how are you gonna move a 60GB file from your iphone without any cable/port?

 

Not forgetting this would be a even bigger anti-consumer practice, which the EU will oust them for

[mr moose]

Just now, darknessblade said:

Please explain in detail why it stops Innovation? That is only a claim by apple, and they do not give any details of why it would stop innovation

 

 

All technical innovation comes from funding that is motivated by a return on investment,  if you tell company A they can only use interface X, then they are not going to develop interface X+1 which would have been better.  

[Imbadatnames]

39 minutes ago, darknessblade said:

Apple changing to port-less is gonna be even worse,

As people don't have any way to easily transfer files from their phone anymore

Want to move that 60GB 4K video from your phone. please pay us 3$ a month for a 205GB cloud storage.

their normal storage is 5GB.

So how are you gonna move a 60GB file from your iphone without any cable/port?

 

Not forgetting this would be a even bigger anti-consumer practice, which the EU will oust them for

Who actually transfers files over wire anymore from phones? Just use wifi it’s faster than USB3 anyway. Also why would you have a 60GB 4K file on your phone? That’s like a 3 hour video file. 
 

How is it anti consumer? They use the Qi standard and it’s compatible with any Qi charger. 

[Fasterthannothing]

Everyone saying this will stop inovation is not thinking straight. Now companies will be more willing to come up with the gold standard plug so to speak to get that massive licensing right. Look right now USB C is perfect for everything but at some point it will need an update. Then they will probably allow companies to submit designs for the next version and then they will pick one and say yep that's the new standard. It's not that complicated this is to fix the dumbest problem of Apple and other proprietary cable connectors thinking they are special and making people buy a bunch of different cables.

[Heliian]

I grew up in the wild west of phone chargers, it was ridiculous that every company and even generation of phone had their own proprietary connections.  I would like to avoid that again and I think having a standard is great.  

Innovation can now be pooled and should create even better connectors in the future when usbc becomes obsolete. 

[darknessblade]

2 minutes ago, Heliian said:

I grew up in the wild west of phone chargers, it was ridiculous that every company and even generation of phone had their own proprietary connections.  I would like to avoid that again and I think having a standard is great.  

Innovation can now be pooled and should create even better connectors in the future when usbc becomes obsolete. 

I remember Nokia phones where you had 5 different model phones released in the same period, each using a different charger. with different voltages as well.

[Forbidden Wafer]

4 minutes ago, darknessblade said:

I remember Nokia phones where you had 5 different model phones released in the same period, each using a different charger. with different voltages as well.

Ericsson did that too. Samsung, Motorola, etc. Pain in the ass. USB micro-B was huge for making most of that crap go away.

[StDragon]

Apple doesn't have to give up the Lightning port. Just and a secondary USB-C so they both can be used side-by-side. Choose the one you want.

Though Apple may try and transcend all of this by going port-less so the iPhone is waterproof. Charging could be wireless (induction) and if you want it Lightning or USB-C, you just purchase a 3rd party case with the ports built in. It would be a to the EU.

[darknessblade]

6 minutes ago, StDragon said:

Apple doesn't have to give up the Lightning port. Just and a secondary USB-C so they both can be used side-by-side. Choose the one you want.

Though Apple may try and transcend all of this by going port-less so the iPhone is waterproof. Charging could be wireless (induction) and if you want it Lightning or USB-C, you just purchase a 3rd party case with the ports built in. It would be a to the EU.

using a 3rd party case with Lightning to USB C does not comply with the new regulations.

 

otherwise every phone maker would have done this.

 

You also forgot that apple has billions stored in banks in their EU Tax-haven.

which they can keep Hostage under the name of investigation, blocking apple from taking out even 0.01$.

 

So apple has to either Kiss the EU their ass, or loose access to all their money for a very very very long time.

 

[Fasterthannothing]

9 minutes ago, StDragon said:

Apple doesn't have to give up the Lightning port. Just and a secondary USB-C so they both can be used side-by-side. Choose the one you want.

Though Apple may try and transcend all of this by going port-less so the iPhone is waterproof. Charging could be wireless (induction) and if you want it Lightning or USB-C, you just purchase a 3rd party case with the ports built in. It would be a to the EU.

That's dumb just comply and give people USB C. Fighting this would be absurd and a huge loss for consumers. Apples already putting USB C on stuff just add it to everything.

[dizmo]

I can only imagine the uproar we'll see when people start seeing the lack of a charger with "x" device. The funniest thing is a lot of those people will be the same ones saying what a good idea this is in this thread. 

 

3 hours ago, Gamer Schnitzel said:

I have said this so often on this forum and every time some American quotes me to talk shit but the EU is the only one who can and will stop those American corporations fucking over the world.

 

Merkel is the reason why Steam has refunds after Gabe stated that they would never implement refunds and now nearly every online platform offers refunds.

You ARE aware that it's far more than American corporations that use proprietary chargers right? What a ridiculous statement. 

3 hours ago, Grand Admiral Thrawn said:

I do not see anything innovative in creating a differently shaped charging/data port.

I am sure there is a possibility to keep the shape as it is and improve on other fields just like USB as well as HDMI do.

Not really. Since they'd all have to work with each other, you're hamstringed on many fronts. Making it have different functionality is no different then making it a different shape. 

2 hours ago, darknessblade said:

Please explain in detail why it stops Innovation? That is only a claim by apple, and they do not give any details of why it would stop innovation

 

99% of all newly released mobile devices use a usb type C, and there is no problem with it.

-------

 

The only group that goes against it is apple, who does nothing but stop innovation by forcing the MFI program on their lightning port accessories [made for iphone/ipad] Which is one of their main profit causes, by having others make MFI products/license the MFI badge/chip.

If they are forced to use USB type C. anyone can use any dock with any device.

-Want to add HDMI "to your iphone", use a usb type C to HDMI adapter.

-Want usb ports: Use a, usb type C to type A adapter

 

With lighting adapters not all adapters work, because it needs a MFI chip, which is made and only made by apple.

not forgetting apple will and can block makers of devices that add features they do not like to see in their devices. [Like expandable storage]

--------

Lightning port itself stops innovation more than anything as it is stuck on usb 2.0 for over 12 years. 

SO why keep a dying standard alive?

--------

I really hope apple starts making enough ruckus about them crying to keep the lightning port, that everyone sees their true anti-consumer nature.

 

With press/ ministers putting pressure on the fact that it uses a outdated standard.

-------

  

Apple changing to port-less is gonna be even worse,

As people don't have any way to easily transfer files from their phone anymore

Want to move that 60GB 4K video from your phone. please pay us 3$ a month for a 205GB cloud storage.

their normal storage is 5GB.

So how are you gonna move a 60GB file from your iphone without any cable/port?

 

Not forgetting this would be a even bigger anti-consumer practice, which the EU will oust them for

There was once a time where most devices used micro USB. What you're saying is akin to saying that would have even the best connector we'd come up with, and yet look at the changes thar have happened over a short period of time. 

 

WiFi is a thing. I haven't used a cable to transfer data in years. 

[Franck]

I don't know how well this has been written but if it's just about standard connector it means nothing. It has to be same connector with same pin layout.

[williamcll]

I wish EU can force everyone to have USB-PD

[whm1974]

26 minutes ago, williamcll said:

I wish EU can force everyone to have USB-PD

Never heard of this before, what is it?

[Kisai]

3 hours ago, darknessblade said:

I remember Nokia phones where you had 5 different model phones released in the same period, each using a different charger. with different voltages as well.

Yes. It sucked.

 

Same with laptops. Go look in your local electronics store for a "universal laptop charger" or a "universal mobile phone charger" and see they have like 30 fricken ends.

 

The problem has always been two fold

a) OEM chargers have the correct voltage but no microprocessor to correctly regulate it, so every time something needs more power, they need a better charger. 

b) Counterfeit "OEM" characters have the correct voltage, but are made of crappy parts that fail, or can't sustain the current, or kill the device.

 

USB-C PD solves both of those problems. By first getting rid of the different varieties of chargers, but also having chargers have microprocessors to determine the correct voltage and current for the device.

 

Problem solved. Except Apple doesn't want to play ball, and still wants to use use USB 2.0. Lighting is also extremely stupid, and doesn't do things that actual USB does. For example, HDMI? a Lightning to HDMI cable is not a HDMI cable, it's a h264 encoded video. Like whoever thought of that idea was not thinking beyond 5 years.

 

Honestly, I have no love for the lightning port, and I see it as preventing 1080p and 4K output on the iphone. Downgrading it to garbage quality.

 

 

[wanderingfool2]

6 hours ago, Gamer Schnitzel said:

I have said this so often on this forum and every time some American quotes me to talk shit but the EU is the only one who can and will stop those American corporations fucking over the world.

 

Merkel is the reason why Steam has refunds after Gabe stated that they would never implement refunds and now nearly every online platform offers refunds.

As others have pointed out, Steam was a result of Australia.  Also, phone makers have pretty much all settled on USB-C now anyways (even those American ones).  The only one not really doing it is Apple.  So even if this was enacted, only Apple would be affected by it initially and in the long run it means that phone makers will be more hesitent to switch to new technologies.  If this legislation had hit back in micro days or mini days we would be stuck waiting for the legislation to allow USB-C (which I'm convinced only became a real thing because phones already were using it).

 

*edit.  Would just like to add, since the introduction of Android pretty much all smartphones aside from Apple have used the USB standard...so it's not really fair to say American corporations, because let's not forget that Google created Android and pretty much made a new standard for phone makers.  So it was an American Company that assimilated a lot of the fragmented scene that was developing.

 

5 hours ago, darknessblade said:

-snip-

First, wireless transfers for data.

Second, it effectively locks people into a standard which does stifle future innovation.  Examples being USB-C wouldn't be a thing on phones now if this was a standard...or by the time the legislation caught up, it would be very delayed.  Also, you get the cost factor.  Budget phones that still used the mini adapter because it was cheaper during the transition period.

 

Also, there is the issue regarding power delivery.  Given that USB-C can have a range of voltages (and even now it isn't working correctly for all...see Google Pixel as an example).

 

An example of this also stifling innovation is with a question, who will developer better connectors?  A magnetic connector for example would be really nice if a standard was implemented.  I've actually seen a few devices with magnetic connectors ("rugged" designs typically) and it's actually really nice (although could be improved upon).  With this legislation the changes of this pretty much get tossed out the window

 

Actually, a better way to implement legislation...instead of saying that all devices must use XYZ connector and standard saying something like this

"All mobile must use a standard that is license-able or open standard where the cost of said license is less than $XYZ"

That way Apple would have to open up their standard or switch to some of the more commonly used standard.  If Apple opened up the standard, then you will get devices that are able to charge both anyways.

[Thaldor]

5 hours ago, mr moose said:

All technical innovation comes from funding that is motivated by a return on investment,  if you tell company A they can only use interface X, then they are not going to develop interface X+1 which would have been better.  

This is the funniest comment ever.

 

"It's going to hinder the innovation" Apples? Like seriously during the time which Apple has used Lightning, others have gone to microUSB (that was EU's earlier "standard" for which Apple demanded the adapter loophole which it got) and in the recent years (after EU's microUSB standard was lifted for the industry to try out what would be the next standard) to the USB-C. Even this couple years without forced standard during which companies were allowed to try out, test, innovate and create the next connector, Apple did absolutely nothing on that front. And now that others developed the new standard, accepted the new standard and it's going to come, Apple suddenly would innovate?

 

No, we are not in the kindergarten where everyone has the second, third and fourth chance to try again and do better. Apple had the same chance as everyone else and they choose not to use it, others came up with USB-C and adapted it even without anyone forcing, Apple choose to do nothing and here we are. Hopefully after five or ten years when this standard is again lifted for companies to innovate the next one, Apple is awake and innovates like everybody else and comes up with their own option that everyone can evaluate and as in democracy majority will choose the next common connector.

[wanderingfool2]

35 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

This is the funniest comment ever.

 

"It's going to hinder the innovation" Apples? Like seriously during the time which Apple has used Lightning, others have gone to microUSB (that was EU's earlier "standard" for which Apple demanded the adapter loophole which it got) and in the recent years (after EU's microUSB standard was lifted for the industry to try out what would be the next standard) to the USB-C. Even this couple years without forced standard during which companies were allowed to try out, test, innovate and create the next connector, Apple did absolutely nothing on that front. And now that others developed the new standard, accepted the new standard and it's going to come, Apple suddenly would innovate?

 

No, we are not in the kindergarten where everyone has the second, third and fourth chance to try again and do better. Apple had the same chance as everyone else and they choose not to use it, others came up with USB-C and adapted it even without anyone forcing, Apple choose to do nothing and here we are. Hopefully after five or ten years when this standard is again lifted for companies to innovate the next one, Apple is awake and innovates like everybody else and comes up with their own option that everyone can evaluate and as in democracy majority will choose the next common connector.

The problem is you are just focusing on Apple, as if the talks regarding innovation and such are referring to Apple.  I think MrMoose is referring to other companies and not Apple.

 

There are devices out there that will be hindered by it.  Overall, I think better legislation could cover the current issues without the concept of limiting future potential.

[Doobeedoo]

I'd like to see USB PD 240W charger for a phone with some quad-cell or something xD. I'd expect it's targeted for laptops mainly but yeah.