This Cheap CPU is REALLY Expensive!

[CPotter]

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[Quackers101]

why the use of decimals for the fps?

Just makes it harder to read.

[Somerandomtechyboi]

4ghz oc is very weak for those cpus

 

X58 xeons tend to do ~4.5ghz with most decent boards with some decent ram, and since its unlocked you dont need good ram to oc it

 

same goes for the i5 2500k with an avg of ~4.6 from what ive read on some old forums

 

Im guessing the very weak oc is just to accomodate all users that may have garbage hardware like an oem machine with an oem board with the only way to oc being throttlestop multiplier overclocking, its pretty accurate actually for garbage hardware since ive only seen ppl do 4ghz with an unlocked xeon on an old workstation board like those hp x58 workstations

 

Though its interesting that the 4770k demolishes the xeon considering its only got 4 cores

 

 

Well unless i can get x58 for dirt cheap then i think ill go the x79 route now considering that those ultra cheap chinese boards are bios moddable and a simple cpu pad mod should increase the voltage, not to mention avx support and far more efficient ivy cpus that dont chug power like theres no tommorow

 

Thanks in advance for potentially saving me from a garbage platform choice assuming i go x79 or just skip x58/x79 entirely and go x299 with an es 7900x that are going for 100$ on ebay for whatever reason

[tim0901]

Man, Haswell was an absolute champ. Beating a 5 year older CPU in gaming even before overclocking? Damn.

 

Really makes you wonder how competitive Ryzen would have actually been had Intel not come into their manufacturing woes and therefore hit 10nm on schedule (or had Intel not become complacent with quad cores).

[Radium_Angel]

4 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Well unless i can get x58 for dirt cheap then i think ill go the x79 route now considering that those ultra cheap chinese boards are bios moddable and a simple cpu pad mod should increase the voltage

There are some pros and cons to this route.

Pro: Lots of support and YT channels on getting the most out of those old chips (miyconst, tech yes city is big into them)

Con: Age, there is a life-span on old tech and sometimes it's a real crap shoot using Chinese salvage boards

[tim0901]

1 minute ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

 

Though its interesting that the 4770k demolishes the xeon considering its only got 4 cores

 

Fully expected honestly. The Xeon is 3 years older than the 4770k and back then generational differences were meaningful, even between Intel CPUs.

1 minute ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Well unless i can get x58 for dirt cheap then i think ill go the x79 route now considering that those ultra cheap chinese boards are bios moddable and a simple cpu pad mod should increase the voltage, not to mention avx support and far more efficient ivy cpus that dont chug power like theres no tommorow

 

Thanks in advance for potentially saving me from a garbage platform choice assuming i go x79 or just skip x58/x79 entirely and go x299 with an es 7900x that are going for 100$ on ebay for whatever reason

Or you could just buy an i3 12100 and a H610 motherboard for ~$250. Will beat any X79 option (it games as well as a 9900K) but doesn't rely on dodgy motherboards.

[jaslion]

11 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

4ghz oc is very weak for those cpus

 

X58 xeons tend to do ~4.5ghz with most decent boards with some decent ram, and since its unlocked you dont need good ram to oc it

 

same goes for the i5 2500k with an avg of ~4.6 from what ive read on some old forums

 

Even at 4.5 they still won't reach 60fps in current games let alone future ones.

 

Even at 4.6 a 2500k is still crippled by being a 4 core without ht. A 2600k at 4.6ghz however is still a pretty darn decent gaming cpu.

 

12 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Though its interesting that the 4770k demolishes the xeon considering its only got 4 cores

 

The ipc difference between the 2 is about 30-40% so of course it's going to defeat that xeon with relative ease.

 

13 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Well unless i can get x58 for dirt cheap then i think ill go the x79 route now considering that those ultra cheap chinese boards are bios moddable and a simple cpu pad mod should increase the voltage, not to mention avx support and far more efficient ivy cpus that dont chug power like theres no tommorow

The problem with x79 is that it isn't cheap. A decent chinese board is 80$pair that with a decent i7 or xeon at 50-60$ and 60$ of ddr3 and you are very close to just getting a ryzen setup that will at worst be equally as good but far newer.

 

x299 is a weird one as it's basically been a platform that has been behind consumer ryzen for all it's life. Which is honestly kinda sad. A 7900x is not better than a ryzen 2600 which can be found for the same price BUT the boards are cheaper. So I would advice just like everyone is doing to skip x299 and just get ryzen. Especially now when it's going end of life and stuff is getting even cheaper.

[Zodiark1593]

57 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

 

 

Though its interesting that the 4770k demolishes the xeon considering its only got 4 cores

 

 

 

Haswell has AVX2 and FMA, the Xeon doesn’t even have the original AVX. Throw in the HT, and there you go. 
 

Speaking of Haswell gen, I’d been itching to toss in some sort of Broadwell (a Xeon exists) for my H97 board. Get that hyperthreading ( I run an i5-4590) and some ipc boost from that L4 cache. 

[SolarNova]

Cool vid.. though i had to pause and start writing this the moment you said you only bothered with a 4ghz OC on the 2500k.

 

Really ?! 4ghz ...my 3930k is harder to OC than a 2500k and even i manage a 4.6ghz OC and thats not even its limit.

 

The 2500k, 2550k, 2600k, and 2700k are all 5ghz capable at the top end and 4.5ghz all core should be a breeze.

 

That bathtub curve though ... motherboards....6 year mark ...my PC be sweating at 10 years

 

The 4770k is indeed a great CPU, holds up very well, my old man still uses one and it isnt even OC'ed despite having a D14 cooling it.

 

Its a shame i never see the old 3930k in these look back benchmarks, i know it wasnt as widely adopted due to its price vs the 2500k and 2600k,, but still, its 6c 12t design has helped it hold up far better than its 4c without HT and with with HT brothers, not to mention the quad channel RAM holds up surprising well vs DDR4 dual channel.

Maybe u can look into that in a future vid.

[Nystemy]

The bathtub curve image is honestly a bit weirdly labeled.

"Pre-Release", "Early Adoption" and "Mature Product" are frankly poor explanations.

The bathtub curve is rarely used as an explanation of reliability from when a product category hits the market, but rather from when an individual unit has been produced.

So better terms for the first three is: "In Factory", "at the Store / in transit", and "After sale".

 

End of life and "Ancient Relic" works fine on the other hand.

 

Now, there is also another failure expectancy curve in regards to how mature a given technology is, but that tends to just be a constantly downwards going line. (and isn't called a "bathtub curve")

 

In regards to buying old second hand CPUs.

I personally use old server processors, since they tend to exist at a fairly low price when the datacenters moves onto the next generation.

Though, the 2011-V1 CPUs are a bit too old in my own opinion... And 1366 is a relic if one is looking for a motherboard...

 

But I have seen a fair few "decently" (60-180€) priced motherboards using reclaimed parts from otherwise dead boards. Though, the life expectancy there might be a bit hit or miss to be fair, and they don't always have the features one needs.

[CerealExperimentsLain]

This is why the reason I'm running X79 is because they were nearly free.  My first one was used in a desktop and retired, so now it's in an UnRAID box with a Xeon.  The second identical board, I was in a mom & pop computer shop, the week it was shutting down and they just had the thing on a shelf, new.  'You pay cash, forty (Canadian) dollars' he said.  I had cash. The mobos are the big problem with such builds.  And those offbrand Chinesium boards are iiiiiiiffy.  Often can't sleep, have turbo problems or RAM speed issues, or less memory channels than advertised.  They're real slap jobs if you deeply investigate them.

[Radium_Angel]

1 minute ago, CerealExperimentsLain said:

And those offbrand Chinesium boards are iiiiiiiffy.  Often can't sleep, have turbo problems or RAM speed issues, or less memory channels than advertised.  They're real slap jobs if you deeply investigate them.

I built a cheap n cheerful x99 system and encountered the same issues, even though I didn't use it hard. It was okay so long as it never deviated from stock, but I always felt the system was "fragile"

Even probing some temp monitors would cause the system to hard lock.

In the end, a near experiment, but I don't miss it.

[CerealExperimentsLain]

Just now, Radium_Angel said:

I built a cheap n cheerful x99 system and encountered the same issues, even though I didn't use it hard. It was okay so long as it never deviated from stock, but I always felt the system was "fragile"

Even probing some temp monitors would cause the system to hard lock.

In the end, a near experiment, but I don't miss it.

Yeah they were all the rage with some YouTubers but they often did fairly surface builds.  I found a Russian channel that reviews boards just like that, did the videos in Russian and English, and 90% of them had some weird issue you'd never see on a name brand board.  Inability to sleep was the most common one, but they often had other issues.  Some boards were good but so many to pick from, some so similar to another, in depth testing like that is the only way to find the 'good ones'.

[Radium_Angel]

5 minutes ago, CerealExperimentsLain said:

Russian channel

Miyconst?

Heck of an in-depth website on BIOS modding those boards, but far more willing to put up with weird issues than I was.

 

[CerealExperimentsLain]

1 minute ago, Radium_Angel said:

Miyconst?

Heck of an in-depth website on BIOS modding those boards, but far more willing to put up with weird issues than I was.

 

Yeah that was it.  Also the channel that showed me that they're largely a waste of time beyond being an interesting novelty.  So I'm glad my UnRAID X79 boards are both Asus, even if that means no cheap ECC RAM.

[Aragorn-]

Anyone know if the tomb raider bench is a custom pass or the built in benchmark? I've got a 3060ti and a 4930k here and I've been wondering just how much it's being held back. A quick tomb raider bench to compare against those numbers would be easy, but if they're using a custom pass then not comparable.

[MultiGamerClub]

Oh man do i miss my sisters cpu FX-8350 pushing 4.5GHz and sounding like it was gonna kill us all one night like it wanted revenge..

[XeonFanX99]

After seeing the video, I decided to run a SOTR benchmark with my own $20 CPU and an RTX 3060ti at 1080p Highest as the LTT video did. Results below. 

[XeonFanX99]

2 hours ago, Radium_Angel said:

Miyconst?

Heck of an in-depth website on BIOS modding those boards, but far more willing to put up with weird issues than I was.

 

He is Ukrainian, I think, and maybe living in Sweden? In fact, one of his recent videos has a brief intro clip against  Russian military intervention in Ukraine and in Georgia 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

4 hours ago, SolarNova said:

Really ?! 4ghz ...my 3930k is harder to OC than a 2500k and even i manage a 4.6ghz OC and thats not even its limit.

you got good cooling or something? Cause for all i know 32nm is really inefficient compared to 22nm, and im pretty sure that 3930k with a 4.6ghz oc classifies as a nuclear reactor xD

 

Im considering ocable old xeons since i prob would have made a waterloop with a car rad by this point so cooling should be solved, chinese boards wise i didnt think they were that unstable, any other caveats to them other than sleep not working cause oc and volt wise ill just do some bios modding and maybe even some hardware voltage modding other than a basic cpu pad mod

 

Cause now its either x58 or x299 if x79 is out, the weird option would be a 3770k and clocking the crap out of that but its only a hyperthreaded 4 core. I could also cut the cost with fixing a broken board, theres a dead dfi board for x58 (t3ers) and a dead msi gd45 for x79

 

Most likely by the time ill be building something like this ill prob just skip x58 and go for x79 or x299. Heck maybe i can even get some cheap used ryzens by then, even ebay isnt out of the question

[SolarNova]

32 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

you got good cooling or something? Cause for all i know 32nm is really inefficient compared to 22nm, and im pretty sure that 3930k with a 4.6ghz oc classifies as a nuclear reactor xD

While i do run a waterloop. I ran the same OC on a D14 air cooler. It just runs cooler under water obviously. I barely break 50c when gaming, and under artificial load its around 70c iirc, havnt tested it in a while, but my fans sit at a static 1200rpm , very quiet. (Noctua NF-A12X25)

 

Sandybridge wasnt super hot running. They were still soldering the IHS, Ivybrige and Haswell on the other hand....they could get toasty in comparison.

[Rugg]

This might have already been said, but why not alder lake? 12100f and 12400f look really good. Probably the fastest CPU's of any lined up in this video. And I know Linus is so into talking about upgrade paths, you have the option of saving up and getting an even better 13th gen Intel CPU later down the line, that upgrade would probably be faster than even AMD's best AM4 CPU (5800X3D). Yes the motherboards are more expensive than a feature-equivalent AMD board which might be a problem, but even in the video Linus picked a $90 mobo, and the lowest end "okay" Intel boards can be got for only $20 more.

[Vulkan HeStan]

I managed to get an i5-6400, h110 mobo and 16gb ram for £100 all in

 

Judging by this video, I got a good deal

[silentdragon95]

Now as much as I would like to claim that X79 or X99 are the obvious solutions, I really don't think that's true anymore. I still run a X79 setup as well, but it's important to note that I originally put this setup together in 2014, so it has been upgraded (a lot) over time.

 

For example, on the X79 side you have the Xeon E5-1680V2 which has actually finally dropped in price significantly to around $130 on AliExpress. That's an Ivy-Bridge-E CPU with 8 cores and 16 threads and, most importantly, it's unlocked. Reports on YT as well as my own experiences with two of these chips suggest that 4.4 or 4.5 GHz is pretty much always going to be possible as they are binned really well. With this overclock you will be able to match Zen+ 8-core CPUs in benchmarks and beat them in games, I believe it's being aided by it's bigger cache and notably lower cache latencies. With the E5 1680-V2 at 4.5 GHz you'll be able to play basically any game at 1440P, heck I had no issues with Cyberpunk and even MSFS 2020 runs well. Sure, I can find an obvious CPU limit by going down to 1080P medium, but I sure as hell didn't buy an RX 6800XT to play at those resolutions

 

The main issue here though is the motherboards, good X79 motherboards from known brands are really expensive and while there are cheap ones from China, overclocking on those is dodgy at best or won't work at worst. Sure, there are some where you can get it to work, but do you really want to comb through Russian forums to find the right BIOS mod for your board?

 

I made a video on this CPU almost two years ago and even back then my conclusion was that unless you already happen to have a decent X79 MoBo and some DDR3 RAM, a Ryzen 2000 system is just the better choice. Yes, it's less exciting, but it's not a dead end and you're going to be way happier with it in the long run.

[Rauten]

Okay, uuhh... how come apparently noone else caught this?

 

At exactly 10:00, Linus is talking about how you can get the entire AMD wombo-combo for ~200$ "... and, since you're getting a B450 board..." - in fact, the whole "B450, so you have an upgrade path!" thing is mentioned multiple times.

But the picture clearly shows that the 200$ combo comes with an A320.

And your affiliiate links at the bottom are also for A320.

 

Feels kinda bait & switch-y to me...