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I have an idea that can help graphics card manufacturers to stop the shortage.

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We are facing a huge graphics card shortage in the world right now which is not only limited to pc gaming but also console gaming. But this shortage does not translate to the CPU market where you can easily find CPUs for msrp or just above. 


This proves that there are many other factors that are affecting this situation we are in right now. I don't think that it is an supply chain issue. The reasoning behind this is that the world has recovered significantly from the effects of the virus and the supply should have normalized by now. One factor that might be causing this shortage is that the demand is way above supply. This is because people upgrade their gpu way more often then their cpu.  But this is not the only reason.


According to pcmag.com scalpers have sold more than 50,000 rtx 3000 series gpus on sites like ebay. Also according to thefpsreview.com nvidia has sold more than 175 million dollars worth gpus to crypto miners who mine crypto currencies like etherium and bitcoin. 


So to reduce the gpu shortage graphics card manufacturers  will have to stop these two problems. To stop the scalping problem graphics card manufacturers can add a clause when people buy a graphics card which says that "this graphics card can not be sold before 6 month from purchase." Doing this will not affect gamers since they will be able to sell their graphics card after using it for some time and during that 6 month period from the initial launch they can look at the demand and then ensure that the production catches on . Another line that can be added is that "you can not sell this graphics card new unless you are a verified retailer." This will stop the mass buying that is done by the bots that are deployed by scalpers. I know that it is not as simple as just putting a clause, but this might help. To stop the second problem they can just make graphics cards not give their true hash rate during mining and ensure that they don't "by mistake" leak a driver that by passes this limiter.


I wish that graphics card manufacturers could do this to provide people with enough graphics cards but they won't since mass buying is too profitable for them. Please let me know what I can improve on this or correct me since this is my first post :D.

Edited by Stockpillow93
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5 minutes ago, Stockpillow93 said:

To stop the scalping problem graphics card manufacturers can add a clause when people buy a graphics card which says that "this graphics card can not be sold before 6 month from purchase." another line that can be added is that "you can not sell this graphics card new unless you are a verified retailer." This will stop the mass buying that is done by the bots that are deployed by scalpers. I know that it is not as simple as just putting a clause, but this might help.

That wouldn't stop anyone from selling them and isn't enforceable. If I buy a graphics card then Nvidia or AMD can't tell me what I can and can't do with it.

 

5 minutes ago, Stockpillow93 said:

One factor that might be causing this shortage is that the supply is way above demand.

Other way around, demand is higher than supply.

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2 minutes ago, Spotty said:

Other way around, demand is higher than supply.

That is what I meant I edited it. 

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9 minutes ago, Stockpillow93 said:

We are facing a huge graphics card shortage in the world right now which is not only limited to pc gaming but also console gaming. But this shortage does not translate to the CPU market where you can easily find CPUs for msrp or just above. 


This proves that there are many other factors that are affecting this situation we are in right now. I don't think that it is an supply chain issue. The reasoning behind this is that the world has recovered significantly from the effects of the virus and the supply should have normalized by now. One factor that might be causing this shortage is that the demand is way above supply. This is because people upgrade their gpu way more often then their cpu.  But this is not the only reason.


According to pcmag.com scalpers have sold more than 50,000 rtx 3000 series gpus on sites like ebay. Also according to thefpsreview.com nvidia has sold more than 175 million dollars worth gpus to crypto miners who mine crypto currencies like etherium and bitcoin. 


So to reduce the gpu shortage graphics card manufacturers  will have to stop these two problems. To stop the scalping problem graphics card manufacturers can add a clause when people buy a graphics card which says that "this graphics card can not be sold before 6 month from purchase." Doing this will not affect gamers since they will be able to sell their graphics card after using it for some time and during that 6 month period from the initial launch they can look at the demand and then ensure that the production catches on . Another line that can be added is that "you can not sell this graphics card new unless you are a verified retailer." This will stop the mass buying that is done by the bots that are deployed by scalpers. I know that it is not as simple as just putting a clause, but this might help. To stop the second problem they can just make graphics cards not give their true hash rate during mining and ensure that they don't "by mistake" leak a driver that by passes this limiter.


I wish that graphics card manufacturers could do this to provide people with enough graphics cards but they won't since mass buying is too profitable for them. Please let me know what I can improve on this or correct me since this is my first post :D.

history class taught me what the prohibitionists did, I wouldnt want to find out what the scalpers will do

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6 minutes ago, Spotty said:

That wouldn't stop anyone from selling them and isn't enforceable. If I buy a graphics card then Nvidia or AMD can't tell me what I can and can't do with it.

 

Yeah that makes sense I did not think about it like that. Also even if they could do it they would not since it would not be as profitable. 

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Not only is this impossible to enforce, but it would outright violate the law in many countries.

 

It is 100% a supply issue. Demand is unprecedented, and there's constraints on not just components like wafer, but also on materials.

 

One of the chief supply issues has been over provisioning of TSMC 7nm. It is simultaneously being used for Zen 3 CPUs, AMD GPUs, PS5s and Xbox Series X|S. There's only so much fab. Nvidia was originally going to use TSMC 7nm for the 30-series cards, which would have been a complete nightmare. Thankfully, they switched production to Samsung 8nm, but unfortunately, Samsung had no where near the fab capacity to meet this unprecedented demand either. So, they just hit a different supply bottleneck instead.

 

This is precisely why AMD has been moving both mobile CPU and GPU as well as the lower end desktop GPUs to 6nm nodes. Nvidia, likewise, has started mining old nodes to bring back cards like the 2060.

 

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20 minutes ago, richodude said:

history class taught me what the prohibitionists did, I wouldnt want to find out what the scalpers will do

Scalpers are primarily profit driven. If you can make it so scalping isn't profitable then you could easily stop scalpers. They do it for things that are illegal to price gouge by simply making it impossible to resell the products above msrp on reselling websites like eBay and the like. The only issue is that I doubt anyone would actually be able to do this as the people who have the power to do so don't care enough to do anything like that. 

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Just make cheaper cards from older generations. Make more 1660's or 2060's. They use less transistors and are probably faster to produce. Even if  there were rx 570's I wouldn't turn them down.

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8 minutes ago, thrasher_565 said:

there no supply problem they sold record amount of gpus in history. and proffet never been higher

BUt that supply is still not enough to meet Demand, hence the large number of Fabs that are in the process of being constructed.

Oh and Profit ≠ Good supply

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3 minutes ago, J-from-Nucleon said:

BUt that supply is still not enough to meet Demand, hence the large number of Fabs that are in the process of being constructed.

Oh and Profit ≠ Good supply

no... you dont get it. its tech talk. they cant make enough to meat demand there for its a crises because they could be making even more moeny even thow there's recorded sales like close to 50%...

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2 hours ago, Stockpillow93 said:

We are facing a huge graphics card shortage in the world right now which is not only limited to pc gaming but also console gaming.

It's also worth noting that pretty much every industry in the entire existence are also facing shortages. I think it's easy for people only involved in PC gaming to see shortages of things like graphics card and miss the bigger picture. Right now there are lumber shortages, hand sanitiser shortages, water shortage, power shortages (not mining related but rather coal related), condom shortages, aluminium can shortage, ketchup shortage, boba shortages, anchovy shortages and the list goes on.

 

It is honestly mind boggling to me how people can live in their little bubbles and think that these shortages are caused by something like scalpers or miners when the entire world is in absolute crisis and pretty much every part of the supply chain are fucked.

 

 

2 hours ago, Stockpillow93 said:

But this shortage does not translate to the CPU market where you can easily find CPUs for msrp or just above. 

The availability of CPUs are because:

1) CPUs are smaller and thus you get more for each wafer.

2) CPUs require fewer components and as a result are less affected by things like a lack of memory modules.

3) The manufacturing plants that produce CPUs are less centralized. Both TSMC and Samsung have been heavily affected by things such as severe winter storms, droughts, fires and so on which have affected GPU manufacturing. Intel on the other hand, who has factories in other areas, have been lucky and avoided some of those things. As a result, the global CPU manufacturing capacity has been more steady over the years.

 

 

2 hours ago, Stockpillow93 said:

I don't think that it is an supply chain issue.

Then you are wrong. Plain and simple.

This is 80% a supply chain issue and 20% a massive spike in demand issue.

Demand is through the roof just as shipment delays occur, people are sick so we have a lack of employees, several natural disasters hit, new laws and regulations were passed and so on.

 

 

2 hours ago, Stockpillow93 said:

The reasoning behind this is that the world has recovered significantly from the effects of the virus and the supply should have normalized by now.

You have no fucking idea what you are talking about. You're just pulling shit out of your ass.

You might not have noticed this, but we are still in a global pandemic. 

 

2 hours ago, Stockpillow93 said:

According to pcmag.com scalpers have sold more than 50,000 rtx 3000 series gpus on sites like ebay.

That's a drop in the bucket.

Almost 13 million graphics cards were sold in Q3 2021 alone. Over 40 million graphics cards in 2020 alone, and you're talking about 50,000 that have changed hands as if that will have any effect at all.

 

 

3 hours ago, Stockpillow93 said:

Also according to thefpsreview.com nvidia has sold more than 175 million dollars worth gpus to crypto miners who mine crypto currencies like etherium and bitcoin. 

Yes, but what you don't mention are that those cards are specific mining cards that are made using partially defect cards. They are not suitable to be used in gaming machines. Nvidia don't sell gaming cards to miners. That is a myth.

Also, their other revenues for the same time were 2.79 billion. That 175 million dollars worth of crypto cards is, once again, a drop in the bucket. It's around 5% to be more precise. Do you think a 5% increase in GPU supplies would be anywhere near enough? No it wouldn't... and even if it was those 5% extra GPUs would most likely not be suitable for gaming on anyway because of defects.

 

 

3 hours ago, Stockpillow93 said:

So to reduce the gpu shortage graphics card manufacturers  will have to stop these two problems.

That assumes that:

1) You haven't missed other, massive issues that are causing these shortages.

2) That the manufacturers even see this as an issue. Why should AMD, Nvidia or Intel care that someone who bought their card sells it to someone else? Consumers should be free to do whatever they want with their device once they have bought it.

 

 

3 hours ago, Stockpillow93 said:

To stop the scalping problem graphics card manufacturers can add a clause when people buy a graphics card which says that "this graphics card can not be sold before 6 month from purchase."

Let's assume we want to live in a world where manufacturers put restrictions on what we are allowed to do with our devices... How exactly do you plan on enforcing this?

How do you suggest that AMD prevents me from buying a 6800 XT from my local retailer, and then sell it to my friend?

Also, why do you think AMD would even go through the trouble to do this when they only care about getting my money, which they did as soon as I bought the card?

 

 

3 hours ago, Stockpillow93 said:

Doing this will not affect gamers since they will be able to sell their graphics card after using it for some time and during that 6 month period from the initial launch they can look at the demand and then ensure that the production catches on .

But the problem is that there aren't enough GPUs to meet demand. Your suggestion does not increase supply in any way so I don't understand why you think production would catch up during these 6 months. The reason why scalpers can exist to begin with is because there are more buyers than sellers. If there were supply enough so that every gamer could have a card then there would be no scalpers to begin with... Your suggestion would only cause an even more extreme shortage for 6 months (as people couldn't even buy from scalpers), and then in 6 months we would be in the exact same situation again.

 

3 hours ago, Stockpillow93 said:

Another line that can be added is that "you can not sell this graphics card new unless you are a verified retailer."

I am sure the environmental groups and right to repair people would be thrilled with this one. Imagine having to throw away your graphics card when you're done with it because you are not allowed to resell it. Great idea...

Also, how do you plan on enforcing this?

 

3 hours ago, Stockpillow93 said:

To stop the second problem they can just make graphics cards not give their true hash rate during mining and ensure that they don't "by mistake" leak a driver that by passes this limiter.

1) That's exactly what Nvidia did, and it didn't help the situation.

2) The leaked driver issue is pretty much fixed. Yes it was a shame it happened and once it happened the damage was already done, but since miners aren't anywhere near the only cause of these shortages it doesn't really help. 

 

 

 

I'm sorry if I sound frustrated, but I am getting pretty sick and tired of ~15  year old kids on tech forums who live in their little sheltered bubble think they understand the world when they really don't. Let be honest, you have no idea what the situation in the world looks like. You don't understand even 1% of the complicated process of what goes into making a GPU and having it shipped to you. Yet you think you are some expert that have come up with a solution that nobody else who works at any of the involved companies have thought of. This is not aimed at you alone but the majority of users on this forum and forums alike.

There are trillions of dollars involved in this and millions of people. There is no conspiracy theory at play here. The world is just in a really shitty situation. I understand that people have a hard time accepting this and want to find some person or group of people to blame just to feel better, but that's stupid and not helpful.

 

OP, a lot of these issues can be traced to shipping issues. The way shipping things around the world have worked have been very fragile for a long time, but it have worked. When covid hit, people became sick, restrictions were put in place, demand changed etc, everything fell apart.

The reason why it will take a long time to recover is also because it's not just one thing that was impacted. That GPU you really want to buy? That consists of hundreds of different parts, all of which requires being manufactured and shipped.

Each and every one of those parts have its own supply chain which have been disrupted. Right now there are thousands upon thousands of "micro shortages" which prevents GPUs from being made.

People being sick in the country that mines the raw material for the components causes delays there. People shipping things from those mines being sick causes delays there, which in turn causes delays to the fabrics that makes the individual components, including components necessary for things like shipping containers, trucks and so on. It spirals into a negative feedback loop that just makes the delays more and more severe.

 

 

Here is a good video that goes over some basics of the shipment issues we are currently experiencing. I strongly recommend anyone who wants to comment on supply issues to first watch this to get a basic understanding of one of the issues. Please remember that this is just one of the causes though, and that there are more. For example several places have been hit with extreme weather conditions as well which would have caused delays or higher prices even if covid wasn't a thing.

 

If you think the video is too long or boring then please don't comment on shortages in the future, because you clearly lack the willingness to learn about the subjects you want to discuss, and that always just results in a bunch of misinformation being spread. Again, this is not just directed at OP but people in general.

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6 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

Scalpers are primarily profit driven. If you can make it so scalping isn't profitable then you could easily stop scalpers. 

You know how to make scalping not profitable?

 

Don’t buy from scalpers. 
 

This has been discussed so many times in this forum (and other forums) and people still don’t seem to get it.

 

Scalpers exist because people are willing to buy at the price point they offer. Scalping isn’t, and shouldn’t be illegal as long as the goods is non essential. And GPUs are not essential, in particular gaming GPUs.

 

I would rather call this a missed opportunity from GPU manufacturers. They should hike their prices since the market clearly are willing to pay scalper prices.

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This feels like you saying you have solved world hunger and peace. By giving everyone food and taking all weapons away. Except you haven't actually told how this would be done in real world. The "stop selling to scalpers" line has been arguing point in threads for over year now. Nobody has actually provided any meaningful way of executing it. (Well, there is a way, but US people don't seem to like it).

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3 minutes ago, LogicalDrm said:

Nobody has actually provided any meaningful way of executing it. (Well, there is a way, but US people don't seem to like it).

I'm curious what way this would be?

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5 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I'm curious what way this would be?

Political way, something which counters capitalism, one of the reasons why companies are selling to whom they please and to price they please. There are only two ways to control companies selling products. One is consumers deciding with their wallet, other is government setting rules companies must obey in order to do business.

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The shortage issue is not worldwide. Where I live I could buy a 3090 right now and it would be at my door overnight. 

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11 minutes ago, LogicalDrm said:

Political way, something which counters capitalism, one of the reasons why companies are selling to whom they please and to price they please. There are only two ways to control companies selling products. One is consumers deciding with their wallet, other is government setting rules companies must obey in order to do business.

iirc there was a US government bill proposing limits to prevent scalping on things like GPU's and consoles, not sure what happened to it.

The other way would be for companies selling products to control pricing and availability with things like pre-orders and only providing to retailers that have any kind of bot protection, but the companies would have to even care about who buys the products, Nvidia and AMD don't care as long as the products get sold. And retailers wouldn't like to implement any bot protection as that costs money, or price limitations as retailers want a profit as well.

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10 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

iirc there was a US government bill proposing limits to prevent scalping on things like GPU's and consoles, not sure what happened to it.

Only things I've heard is "strong demands to increase production of silicon" and "increasing production capacity in US" from US government. Australia and UK have had some bills toward scalpers, but those have been about concert tickets, not GPUs or consoles (as have been discussed in several threads in past year).

 

10 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

The other way would be for companies selling products to control pricing and availability with things like pre-orders and only providing to retailers that have any kind of bot protection, but the companies would have to even care about who buys the products, Nvidia and AMD don't care as long as the products get sold. And retailers wouldn't like to implement any bot protection as that costs money, or price limitations as retailers want a profit as well.

Thats not working way. Like you said, they have no reason to make that sort of decision. And secondly, bots aren't the biggest problem here, the shortage of materials is. Bots are only effective when the high-demand object is in small quantities. When the supply increases, no one is willing to pay over-retail prices. This is already happening, retail supply is fine, prices are just high compared to what they were just 2 years ago.

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You want to fix the scalping problem. Don't buy from them. Don't buy stuff on eBay. Just Don't. Only buy from proper dealers and the manufacturers. IT IS NEVER A GOOD IDEA to pay inflated prices above retail just because of supply issues. 

 

If you must must must have the latest thing as soon as it comes out that is something psychological within yourself and requires very different ways of dealing with that. 

 

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14 hours ago, Stockpillow93 said:

To stop the scalping problem graphics card manufacturers can add a clause when people buy a graphics card which says that "this graphics card can not be sold before 6 month from purchase." Doing this will not affect gamers since they will be able to sell their graphics card after using it for some time and during that 6 month period from the initial launch they can look at the demand and then ensure that the production catches on

This will work as about as well as one of the other "solutions" i've seen pop up on this forum of "why don't NVidia and AMD just make more GPUs?"

 

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3 hours ago, William Payne said:

The shortage issue is not worldwide. Where I live I could buy a 3090 right now and it would be at my door overnight. 

But at what price? The OG msrp? The new inflated msrp? The stores markup price?

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18 minutes ago, Blue4130 said:

But at what price? The OG msrp? The new inflated msrp? The stores markup price?

I don't even know what the msrp is. All I know is the parts are available and can be purchased via reputable stores.

 

 

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17 hours ago, Stockpillow93 said:

This proves that there are many other factors that are affecting this situation we are in right now.

There is just one that matters - Demand.

More supply than demand = Shortage

17 hours ago, Stockpillow93 said:

This is because people upgrade their gpu way more often then their cpu.

The shortage started because in addition to the growth of PC Gaming very little amount of cards were on the market even before the prices were crazy,

AMD and NVIDIA rushed the launches of their products even though they didn't have much of them in circulation.

Then scalpers saw the opportunity to buy them all,in addition to miners seeing value in them for mining Etherum.

Most of the demand is not from gamers,but from scalpers and miners who buy cards in bulk and store them until they sell them all.

17 hours ago, Stockpillow93 said:

So to reduce the gpu shortage graphics card manufacturers  will have to stop these two problems. To stop the scalping problem graphics card manufacturers can add a clause when people buy a graphics card which says that "this graphics card can not be sold before 6 month from purchase."

Why would AMD and NVIDIA do that when they can just capitalize on it and raise prices like they are doing now?

Especially since in this market every GPU they release sells out quickly,why would they want to stop that?

Did you see the 6500 XT?,The RTX 2060 12GB or the 3090 Ti?

 

I think that governments around the world would come together on an international level and sign an agreement\laws to combat this.

They can ban online shopping bots,they can require stores to verify that you are human by phone call,etc.

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16 hours ago, didu said:

Just make cheaper cards from older generations. Make more 1660's or 2060's. They use less transistors and are probably faster to produce. Even if  there were rx 570's I wouldn't turn them down.

There is one. They just called it a 6500xt and took out all of the encoding hardware

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