I need a game developer, but my best offer is you sell the game, no profit to me.

[tsmspace]

Where do i go to find a game developer? 

 

I have a critical game concept for a project im working on (hobby) , its a coordination trainer. I dont sell anything, so wouldnt sell games either. I do buy them,,,,, but cant hire, instead all i can do is offer that i would buy several copies and recommend the game to others. 

 

The intent is to create a series of coordination trainers for 4 joystick controllers , or other mutli-axis inputs. (6 to 8 axis but i have concepts for 9). I am gaining fluency in 6 axis and am very confident in the validity of the exercise. The game specifically that brought me to post is a pick-and-place arcade game. Imagine the monkey fitting triangles and circles through the shaped holes, but instead, various 3d objects are scattered around and it is a race to orient the cursor over the object, "grab" it, and then translate and rotate it so that you can insert it into its proper slot. It must support all imaginable joystick inputs. (Or, at least the "genericusbcontroller 8"). 

 

I have more ideas also, and share them freely, but am not a business. 

 

[Eigenvektor]

On 1/13/2022 at 11:24 PM, tsmspace said:

Where do i go to find a game developer?

Since no one has bothered to answer yet, let me give you an idea as to why.

 

You're unlikely to find a game developer willing to do this "for free", unless you happen to find a hobbyist interested in the same thing. You have these basic options to get someone to develop this software for you:

• Pay them to do it
• Convince them that your idea is going to sell and for them to work "for free" until the money actually starts coming in
• (Bonus option: find someone who is interested in the same idea and willing to do it in their spare time)

Your description is very vague, so it's hard to estimate anything, but projects like this can easily take a year or more to develop (single developer). In terms of development costs, we're likely talking 5–6 figures.

 

To give you some idea, here's an article talking about development costs of mobile apps: https://www.businessofapps.com/app-developers/research/app-development-cost/

Even for a simple app, they estimate between $40k–$60k. While your idea doesn't sound overly complex at first glance, you are talking about 3D graphics and joystick input, which will require testing on many different hardware configurations (GPUs, CPUs, joysticks), which is only going to add to the cost. Promising to buy several copies isn't going to cut it in terms of ROI.

[tsmspace]

On 1/17/2022 at 9:04 AM, Eigenvektor said:

Since no one has bothered to answer yet, let me give you an idea as to why.

 

You're unlikely to find a game developer willing to do this "for free", unless you happen to find a hobbyist interested in the same thing. You have these basic options to get someone to develop this software for you:

• Pay them to do it
• Convince them that your idea is going to sell and for them to work "for free" until the money actually starts coming in
• (Bonus option: find someone who is interested in the same idea and willing to do it in their spare time)

Your description is very vague, so it's hard to estimate anything, but projects like this can easily take a year or more to develop (single developer). In terms of development costs, we're likely talking 5–6 figures.

 

To give you some idea, here's an article talking about development costs of mobile apps: https://www.businessofapps.com/app-developers/research/app-development-cost/

Even for a simple app, they estimate between $40k–$60k. While your idea doesn't sound overly complex at first glance, you are talking about 3D graphics and joystick input, which will require testing on many different hardware configurations (GPUs, CPUs, joysticks), which is only going to add to the cost. Promising to buy several copies isn't going to cut it in terms of ROI.

basically I mean,,, you make and sell it, I buy it on steam. I wouldn't make any money at all. It's more of a, if you don't know what people want to play that's different from what's on the market, I'm a player who is unhappy and doesn't have the game I need, and can tell you what it is. 

[Franck]

1 hour ago, tsmspace said:

basically I mean,,, you make and sell it, I buy it on steam.

So here Toyota make this car i find super cool, pay for engineering, test, manufacturing.. etc and i can assure you 1 sale of 20k for your 12.5 millions investment.. yeah right

[tsmspace]

10 hours ago, Franck said:

So here Toyota make this car i find super cool, pay for engineering, test, manufacturing.. etc and i can assure you 1 sale of 20k for your 12.5 millions investment.. yeah right

correct. actually no. Because you don't need a AAA title, and I know from what I already know an experienced developer could do most of it in an hour, and probably a weekend for everything else. As a matter of fact, there are a few people out there who nearly built the whole game already, and would only need a few feature updates to make it all happen for me. So yes,, I do think it's the right thing to do is to try and share my desired game. 

[Eigenvektor]

1 hour ago, tsmspace said:

I know from what I already know an experienced developer could do most of it in an hour, and probably a weekend for everything else.

That's awfully optimistic. Even when using an existing engine, two days is too little time to cobble together more than a rough prototype. As the saying goes: The first 90 percent of the code accounts for the first 90 percent of the development time. The remaining 10 percent of the code accounts for the other 90 percent of the development time.

 

Taking into account how much (or how little) I can get done in two days modifying our existing codebase, I have a hard time imagining someone creating a complete game from scratch in just two days. A prototype, maybe. And then you discover all the little details that need to be done before you have a product in a condition ready for release.

[Franck]

2 days of works is about 1,300$ contractual for a game build in 2 days and wont be good quality so forget selling at more than 1$ each.

 

9 hours ago, tsmspace said:

already know an experienced developer could do most of it in an hour

I have over 25 years experience developing professionally.... don't try to make me swallow that lie.

[Avocado Diaboli]

You seem to be very keen on this idea of your 4-joystick controller that you've been showing off multiple times already. My question here is, if you're already so inclined to create your own controller, what's hindering you from downloading a free 3D game engine like Unity and applying that same DIY spirit into learning some basic coding to implement the functions you want the game to have? If I understood your initial comment correctly, what you're looking for is really just a software that translates the four inputs from your joysticks into the various rotations and translations you can execute with them. Clearly this isn't some kind of big AAA game you're after, just a simple coordination tool. That's a perfect starting point for a self-imposed challenge to overcome, so you could learn something useful for the future and you could probably also gain some more appreciation for the amount of work it is to figure something like that out. Because I can't fathom what your thought process might have been to ask someone to develop a game specifically for you with the idea of them selling it on Steam (putting stuff on Steam ain't free), especially something that you admit is niche as hell to begin with so it probably won't see massive returns. 

[CT854]

14 hours ago, tsmspace said:

Because you don't need a AAA title, and I know from what I already know an experienced developer could do most of it in an hour, and probably a weekend for everything else.

Genuine question - if it's as easy as you say, why are you eager to outsource this effort? If you can't make time to put in this effort (even if you're busy - staggering this over several weekends isn't exactly difficult, taken at face value), how would you have the time to properly communicate the effort anyway?

 

It just seems really odd to me that you're expecting someone to invest time into something for free that you're either unwilling or unable to commit to yourself.

[tsmspace]

On 1/25/2022 at 9:19 AM, CT854 said:

Genuine question - if it's as easy as you say, why are you eager to outsource this effort? If you can't make time to put in this effort (even if you're busy - staggering this over several weekends isn't exactly difficult, taken at face value), how would you have the time to properly communicate the effort anyway?

 

It just seems really odd to me that you're expecting someone to invest time into something for free that you're either unwilling or unable to commit to yourself.

I don't expect "for free" but I can't hire a developer. We need to talk in the dollar values that a wage worker can afford. I work in a warehouse. and I've sat down to try to make it but I have to start from absolute zero. You have plenty of people who probably aren't going to end up with a game without first having some pretty reasonable experience. Also I HAVE had experienced developers tell me the project would be a "whip up", but that you know,,, people are busy,,,, maybe one day. 

[tsmspace]

On 1/25/2022 at 4:08 AM, Avocado Diaboli said:

You seem to be very keen on this idea of your 4-joystick controller that you've been showing off multiple times already. My question here is, if you're already so inclined to create your own controller, what's hindering you from downloading a free 3D game engine like Unity and applying that same DIY spirit into learning some basic coding to implement the functions you want the game to have? If I understood your initial comment correctly, what you're looking for is really just a software that translates the four inputs from your joysticks into the various rotations and translations you can execute with them. Clearly this isn't some kind of big AAA game you're after, just a simple coordination tool. That's a perfect starting point for a self-imposed challenge to overcome, so you could learn something useful for the future and you could probably also gain some more appreciation for the amount of work it is to figure something like that out. Because I can't fathom what your thought process might have been to ask someone to develop a game specifically for you with the idea of them selling it on Steam (putting stuff on Steam ain't free), especially something that you admit is niche as hell to begin with so it probably won't see massive returns. 

well,,, it's just that I know it would be better if someone who was already good at that level of development did it instead. You know, I have respect for skills, and don't think just anyone can sit down and do just anything. You always have someone who has a bunch of relevent experience saying that they just one day started from zero, but they didn't. It was years of little experiences that made it easy enough for them to one day get started. Not everyone has that set of experiences. Some of us can pick stuff up all of every day (100-200 lbs) and never once strain their back, never be at risk of back injury, never feel particularly unable, never feel like it's too much to ask. I work in a warehouse and pick up rolls of fabric. When that's your job too, maybe you'll know how much more work it is to decide to try and learn game development. I didn't even PLAY games until I got into my controller. 

[tsmspace]

On 1/25/2022 at 3:18 AM, Franck said:

2 days of works is about 1,300$ contractual for a game build in 2 days and wont be good quality so forget selling at more than 1$ each.

 

I have over 25 years experience developing professionally.... don't try to make me swallow that lie.

maybe you would be interested in hearing the concept.

-the game must run on even the lowest performance computers people might have. Things with -gbs of ram and such. 

-the game is a 6 axis thrust game in a small arena with zero g. (supports manual and automatic rotation, but only manual acceleration)

-the game supports joysticks. 

-the game allows players to place gates in a few types of scenery (can look like the 80's) (scenery makes good things to curve around, like rocks perhaps) and then fly around them. 

-ideally, the game would have a second gate placing option, where the player flies the craft around (can have no flight physics for this one, like overload), and is able to place the gates from an inventory. (hits a button and the selected gate appears around them) They can then fly to the center of already placed gates, hit a button to connect to them, and fly them or re-orient them and then disconnect again, to result in a good course. 

-the game does not race, there are no ai players. 

-the thrust and rotation rates much be able to be changed by the player (like choosing parts for your quad, or even just sliders is ok)

-a nice feature, although not necessary but would be very helpful, would be the ability to order the gates, and have the next gate in line highlight so the player can learn other players courses more easily. 

-the courses must be able to be exported and imported for sharing. 

 

The reason that the game must be so heavily oriented towards map editing, is that the arrangements of gates that make for good fun with 6 axis navigation challenges have not been discovered. This theory is based on the ever-evolving scape of FPV gates, where over time thousands of pilots tried many arrangements in public and private, resulting in the present day's course repertoire. 

 

 

[tsmspace]

On 1/24/2022 at 7:47 PM, Eigenvektor said:

That's awfully optimistic. Even when using an existing engine, two days is too little time to cobble together more than a rough prototype. As the saying goes: The first 90 percent of the code accounts for the first 90 percent of the development time. The remaining 10 percent of the code accounts for the other 90 percent of the development time.

 

Taking into account how much (or how little) I can get done in two days modifying our existing codebase, I have a hard time imagining someone creating a complete game from scratch in just two days. A prototype, maybe. And then you discover all the little details that need to be done before you have a product in a condition ready for release.

I don't need more than a prototype. Prototype is best. 

[Wictorian]

Just say it is a Half Life 3 leak and people will make it for you.

[tsmspace]

9 hours ago, Wictorian said:

Just say it is a Half Life 3 leak and people will make it for you.

lol , , I'm sure there are a few titles that would be like that, but I'm not trying to be in the business of disappointment. 

 

anyway, if you want to see a PRETTY good example of my goal, here is one. https://youtu.be/vdkLi1JAeXE

[Biohazard777]

On 1/29/2022 at 6:49 AM, tsmspace said:

I don't need more than a prototype. Prototype is best. 

On 1/13/2022 at 11:24 PM, tsmspace said:

but cant hire, instead all i can do is offer that i would buy several copies and recommend the game to others. 

https://www.fiverr.com/

https://www.upwork.com/

Search for  "Unity Engine" or "Unreal Engine", both are popular game engines with plenty of freelance devs for hire, also both have free tier licenses so you don't have to worry about that driving the cost up.
You can probably find some junior dev living in a low GDP country willing to scrape something together for you for the price of those few copies (say 200$).
Will it be good, nope... but you might end up with a "kinda working prototype" for the price you are willing to pay.

[tsmspace]

14 hours ago, Biohazard777 said:

https://www.fiverr.com/

https://www.upwork.com/

Search for  "Unity Engine" or "Unreal Engine", both are popular game engines with plenty of freelance devs for hire, also both have free tier licenses so you don't have to worry about that driving the cost up.
You can probably find some junior dev living in a low GDP country willing to scrape something together for you for the price of those few copies (say 200$).
Will it be good, nope... but you might end up with a "kinda working prototype" for the price you are willing to pay.

I started looking, but the first quote I got someone wanted 40$ an hour for 40 days just to get started,, it sounded like he was going to upsell the magnolias out of me, doing things like spending his time on graphic design. ,,, It would probably be just as much work to find someone that way than it would be to learn unreal enough to squeeze out some basics. If I'm going to spend money,, I can buy a joystick support package for 70$, and a map editor package for maybe same price, and then it just comes down to following some tutorials on 6 axis, getting some kind of gates to pick from, and then find someone who wants to help me solve a few problems instead. ,,,,, I know that programmers make a lot of money, there's really nothing I can do though. 

[tikker]

On 2/5/2022 at 4:21 AM, tsmspace said:

I started looking, but the first quote I got someone wanted 40$ an hour for 40 days just to get started,, it sounded like he was going to upsell the magnolias out of me, doing things like spending his time on graphic design. ,,, It would probably be just as much work to find someone that way than it would be to learn unreal enough to squeeze out some basics. If I'm going to spend money,, I can buy a joystick support package for 70$, and a map editor package for maybe same price, and then it just comes down to following some tutorials on 6 axis, getting some kind of gates to pick from, and then find someone who wants to help me solve a few problems instead. ,,,,, I know that programmers make a lot of money, there's really nothing I can do though. 

You're basically just finding out that people don't work for free and even less so on larger uncertain projects. You're not paying someone to just follow a few tutorials, but for their expertise and to use that expertise on your idea. They can do it quicker than you can, because they worked hard to obtain that knowledge and skill. Additionally you'll have to convince them that this is something that will sell well, otherwise the deal of "you can have the profits" doesn't sound attractive either, which I'm guessing is part of why they might charger a little on the high side. If you're convinced it's as easy as you think it is and you really don't want to spend money, then it may be best to see how "just learn the basics" and "follow a few tutorials" works out. Worst case scenario is you find out that it's not that easy, best case you'll have learned something new and created something you wanted to pursue.

[Science-Raven]

Unity3D is awesome to write games for, if you follow a tutorial for a simple game, perhaps you would be hooked and find you are awesome at making your own games. 

[Franck]

On 2/4/2022 at 10:21 PM, tsmspace said:

I started looking, but the first quote I got someone wanted 40$ an hour for 40 days just to get started

Not that bad actually. I start a 60$/hr and go up depending on the amount of work added on top

[tsmspace]

On 2/7/2022 at 1:35 AM, tikker said:

You're basically just finding out that people don't work for free and even less so on larger uncertain projects. You're not paying someone to just follow a few tutorials, but for their expertise and to use that expertise on your idea. They can do it quicker than you can, because they worked hard to obtain that knowledge and skill. Additionally you'll have to convince them that this is something that will sell well, otherwise the deal of "you can have the profits" doesn't sound attractive either, which I'm guessing is part of why they might charger a little on the high side. If you're convinced it's as easy as you think it is and you really don't want to spend money, then it may be best to see how "just learn the basics" and "follow a few tutorials" works out. Worst case scenario is you find out that it's not that easy, best case you'll have learned something new and created something you wanted to pursue.

I'm not finding out anything. 

 

if a developer thinks they know what's the right project for them, and they think they can make it, I imagine they would go ahead and just make it and sell it. 

 

I think I know what they want to make. 

[Franck]

On 2/26/2022 at 10:05 PM, tsmspace said:

if a developer thinks they know what's the right project for them, and they think they can make it, I imagine they would go ahead and just make it and sell it. 

You need to find a new developer that want to start and make a portfolio. This project is not a profitable one. It will cost more to produce than the return on sales. I can't see selling more than 100-200 of those. Asset developing is usually 32 to 40 hr. Build to prototype i'd say sound around 60-70hr, final product is usually 3x but lets assume 2x. Lets be very very optimistic and round to 180hr everything.

 

Lets take USA with minimum wage of i do believe around 7.50$

180hr x 7.5 = 1,350 $

To make profit you as a single developer you need at least a 30% margin on the salary to grow and keep your tools up to date.

1,350 x 1.3 = 1,755$

 

We have to take our lowest sale estimate otherwise it's a loss

1,755 $ / 100 = 17,55$ per license.

 

Now is the market up for 17.55$ per game that is the real question for profitability

 

This is a extremely simplified version of a developer quote for a single license buyout option with the most optimistic value and excluding extortion % taken from the different app store. Plus the work time was assumed very optimistically without more detail and nitpick of the client (which is NEVER easier than the default estimate)

 

Your best bet is for sure a new developer making it's portfolio OR learn programming yourself and you can do it.

Learn Unreal Engine with C++ programming or Xenko Engine with C# programming (arguably easier to learn).

Both should be around 250-300 hours basic training classes.

In school i did mine years and years ago for unreal and it was a 620 hrs class as a condensed 10 months as partial time.

There are some good online courses for Unreal with pay as you go so you do the class when you have time (really good if your working full time job).

The free training online i find them very bad. It sends my guys into bunch of direction without an actual class structure, test and finals with grading and correction.

Skillshare is probably the best cheapest option that is good. You can find personalized course for you. It's still better than free option.

 

[Eigenvektor]

On 2/27/2022 at 4:05 AM, tsmspace said:

if a developer thinks they know what's the right project for them, and they think they can make it, I imagine they would go ahead and just make it and sell it.

I've certainly developed stuff just for the fun of it and/or to learn new things. However, there's a big difference between making things for fun and making things for sale. If you ever try to make a game on your own, you'll soon discover there's more to it than just writing a few lines of code. You need artwork/textures, 3D models, sound. You need a user interface and controls that are usable. You need a store page with screenshots and text that attracts customers. Few developers have the skills to do all of that on their own.

 

You say you're satisfied with a prototype, but a prototype isn't going to sell. This means anyone who needs/wants to earn money must put a certain amount of effort into it. A hobbyist who's into it just for fun is likely to give up once they discover all of the additional effort that is needed to actually produce something worth selling.

 

Aside from "is this the right project" and "can I make it" a professional developer is also going to ask:

• How much time/money is it going to take?
• Is there a market for such a game?
• How much profit can I make?