Dell's Silent War on S3 Standby

[WhiskeySprinkler]

Bit Incendiary I know, but my new dell XPS 9710 (i9/rtx3060/32gb) seems to spontaneously wake up (A LOT) and drain its battery. Sometimes it happens to the point of "going critical" and becoming nuclear level hot. Last time i caught it trying to do so under a blanket after I swear i had put it to sleep. Turns out the culprit is Modern standby and every time users find a hack for it Dell seems to counterpunch. 

 

I've read about the CS<something, i'm lazy> registry hack, but that no longer works after win10 2004. Then came along "PlatformAoAcOverride" (got less lazy in 2 sentences), which seems to kill modern standby altogether. That's a win right? Not so much. Now (or at least with my 11th gen laptop). "powercfg.exe" maintains that "The system firmware does not support this state" for S3. So, the system not knowing what to do just dumps into Hibernate. Which maybe is where they (Windows/Dell) want us to go... but, why? Google searches for "disable modern standby" have countless results/complaints/solutions/etc. 

 

Modern standby is such a horrible solution. Apple seems to implement it well, but Windows - or just Dell - is doing a completely horrible job at it. Putting your laptop to sleep in s0(modern standby) is downright dangerous. Imagine you put your beast of a laptop with a 99Wh battery in your Eskimo backpack in the back of your Pinto for the Holiday cross-country trip. Next thing you know all the sweaters you knitted for the relatives have caught fire and you find yourself on the side of highway admitting to authorities that the TSA might actually be right to be paranoid about lithium batteries in checked-in bags (because... you know, S0 time bombs). 

 

Do they want to subtly force us to use hibernate instead, thus improving battery life, but killing our ssds? What is their end game? 

 

A 2019 article said that "Dell is going to bring back S3" - https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-is-reportedly-working-to-bring-back-S3-sleep-to-the-XPS-15-9570.416301.0.html but... where is it?

 

A more modern article with complaints is here, and while the author hides originally the brand of laptop he had problems with, he links to his original rant in the r/Dell - wasn't surprised.  https://therightstuff.medium.com/an-investigation-into-my-new-laptops-stubborn-refusal-to-sleep-8575ccdcfc2 . 

 

If there is anyone that can figure out what is really going on here, its you guys. I made an account literally to just post this one thing. Again, I'm lazy.

Maybe there's a reason S0 Modern Standby is good that we just don't know about. Or maybe someone with a little weight behind them (not Linus, he looks like a buck 20 wet   j/k ) could force Dell and Microsofts hand? 

 

There's definitely a story here, and I think someone with the knowledge and skills like LTT could easily find it.

Edited January 10, 2022 by WhiskeySprinkler
Think there's should be some discussion on this.

[Middcore]

 

[WhiskeySprinkler]

ok thx, i put  it there, should i delete this? 

[WhiskeySprinkler]

So still digging on Reddit and other places and it turns out this has been a thing with Dell for a while. So many different places complaints have been made but Dell doesn't care their laptops can't sleep and save battery. The more and more I read about people not feeling safe to "turn off" (sleep) their laptop and put it in a bag for fear of overheating or fire.  Like wtf? How are there not pitchfork mobs getting upset about laptop manufacturers breaking the literal concept of putting a laptop to sleep? I feel trapped in this chaos because now... I think I'm stuck with this laptop. WTF.

 

[Sprawlie]

This is unfortunately a reality with the modern Dells. Not so much  on the lower end ones, but the latest Dell XPS’s I have purchased in the last couple years all have really REALLY bad heating and battery drain issues.

 

Most notably, while on “sleep” in a bag. I have had several occasions with the one I was using where I would “sleep” my computer, and then by the time I got home, my laptop would be hot enough to burn my hands and drained 50%+ battery.

 

I had a few RMA’s and every single XPS. and each time dell returned with “Working as intended”

 

I’m no longer buying Dell devices. The best work around I could find was to disable the sleep states in the bios and disable hibernation in windows.

[Radium_Angel]

Is it, perhaps (dunno, I"m asking) because of all Dell's pre-installed bloatware? I tend to nuke that crap right off the bat on our work machines on general grounds, but it seems that stuff gets in the way at odd times of the day, so out it goes.

[Sprawlie]

2 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

Is it, perhaps (dunno, I"m asking) because of all Dell's pre-installed bloatware? I tend to nuke that crap right off the bat on our work machines on general grounds, but it seems that stuff gets in the way at odd times of the day, so out it goes.

Thought this as well. I have a powershell script that removes all the pre-installed AppX installers that vendors and Microsoft load.

 

While it makes a performance difference, this doesn’t seem to affect the sleep wake issue. The issue even occurs on fresh installations of windows.

 

However, it does NOT happen with a linux OS installed. Leading me to believe that it is something specific in the windows set of drivers that Dell requires. Some pre-install automatically from windows repository.

 

As for the bloat that Dell ships now. it is ridiculous. A new XPS 13” on fresh boot is using 6 out of it’s 8gb’s of RAM. That is completely unacceptible. But it is in line with Dell’s software divisions lack of abilities.

 

I have implemented several Dell technologies over the years. Dell software is absolutely horrible, Buggy, insane mess. Pretty much all Dell software, even on their server’s and SAN’s are straight up buggy garbage. They have some of the worst development outcomes from any of my vendors. And that’s saying a lot in the modern agile world

[Radium_Angel]

1 minute ago, Sprawlie said:

However, it does NOT happen with a linux OS installed. Leading me to believe that it is something specific in the windows set of drivers that Dell requires. Some pre-install automatically from windows repository.

That's quite telling there, it's unfortunate the issue is then basically unfixable if you wish to stay in the Windows world, but it would make for an absolutely fascinating video of "Me vs Dell" trying to fix this issue for good....if that is even possible.

3 minutes ago, Sprawlie said:

Dell software is absolutely horrible, Buggy, insane mess. Pretty much all Dell software, even on their server’s and SAN’s are straight up buggy garbage.

And that's an even bigger shame, as their workstation line of hardware is quite good (IME)

[Sprawlie]

Hardware wise they’re fantastic.. It’s completely let down by their software.

 

I’ve implemented for example 200 Dell Wyse thin clients corporate wide.

 

Hardware wise, Fantastic. No issues at all.

 

Software wise? Buggiest centralized management software I have ever EVER used

 

When I pointed out all the bugs, failure and issues. documented them in full and gave them to dell. Dell had the audacity to send me a quote for $7,000 if I wanted them to further investigate the issues and resolve it.

 

When I asked them if there was an updated version of their Wyse Management Server that was newer than the 4 year old version we had installed. They said “no” because they don’t seem to think the issues people are reporting is worth updating.

 

Meanwhile I will legitimately have random devices at branches go into reboot loopps because the WMS server gets “stuck” spamming out “a change” that forces reboots. And I have branch staff sitting there without a workstation until I send out a new “blank” unit to reprogram. Their “zero touch” deployments straight up don’t work.

 

Nevermind that they shipped all 200 of those units in french accidentally, and then refused to replace them. Instead, I have to reprogram, and reinstall windows IOT on every single unit before shipping.

 

Sadly, Dell’s software and service department has dramatically worsened in the last couple years and is one of the worst service departments in the industry I have dealt with.

[Rocketdog2112]

Next time it wakes on its own, immediately try this:

Using administrative Command Prompt, enter "powercfg-lastwake" to determine what is commanding the laptop to wake.

I once had similar issues with the Network Adapter allowing WOL "Wake ON Lan" in the Power Management tab. Unchecking that box solved the issue.

[Heliian]

HP isn't much better.  That's where I learned my lesson.  I haven't seen any problems since I shut down when not on the table.  The modern systems boot quickly enough that I'm not worried about the few extra seconds either.

 

Make sure you try all the bios and windows power management settings. 

[Lurking]

At work I have some stupid Dell tablet (a bad surface copy) and it does the same thing. If I have the battery fully charged, turn it off and put it in my bag (not plugged in), I can be sure the next day the battery is drained and the unit is dead. That is because it will turn itself on and drain the battery within a few hours. 

 

I basically have to have it plugged in all the time if I want to be able to use it on battery. And I hope while I go where I need it, it doesn't drain again. You basically need to plug it in all the time you want to be sure you want to use it. And it isn't Dell software. Out IT installs their own OS image. 

 

When I leave it plugged in, I always turn it off. But whenever I open the lid, it is already on and ready to log in. Like someone at Dell thought it is a good idea to have it ready all the time. Maybe the guy thought it has some sort of never-ending nuclear battery. 

 

That POS replaced an a few years old MS surface and even when the Surface was much older, it was much better. And it worked on battery..... Why anyone volunteers to buy Dell stuff is beyond me. Our IT is just in love with Dell and 100% of hardware they buy is Dell. So it is Dell, or nothing. 

[Amias]

Oh wow I thought my mum's Dell was just stupid. But seems they're awful at sleeping.

 

Every time I go to use it while visiting it takes about 10-15 seconds to get to the login screen. Every. Other. Laptop. Turns on instantly.

 

How is that acceptable?

[Rocketdog2112]

Interesting read...

 

https://www.ghacks.net/2013/12/31/find-pc-wakes-stop/