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Glow vs Smearing vs Viewing angles (please no simp wars)

ExalyThor
Go to solution Solved by Stahlmann,

Smearing (response times) are something that is consistent across different units within the same model. IPS and TN are still the best here, with most VA panels lagging a bit behind. Only high-end VA like the Samsung G7 has mostly fixed the response time and black level smearing issues.

 

IPS glow and backlight bleed are very similar issues and are completely up to random chance, no matter if it's TN, IPS or VA. From what i saw over the years, low-end or high-end doesn't really affect how bad backlight bleed and IPS glow can be. Like i said: random chance. That's also the reason why EVERY monitor has some user reviews about terrible backlight bleed or IPS glow.

 

TN panels have the added problem that the overall contrast is much worse, making blacks appear brighter than IPS and especially VA. This can negatively impact the screen uniformity more than IPS glow or backlight bleed. TN just doesn't have any advantage over IPS these days so it's imo a dead technology other than super-budget displays.

 

So nowadays the choice is basically IPS vs. VA for computer monitors, with OLED slowly creeping in but being reserved for the ultra high-end (and expensive) market segment. And OLED is basically the perfect display technology that doesn't suffer from any backlight bleed, IPS glow or smearing, with only one drawback: Risk of burn-in.

I'm in the market for a 27 inch 1440p monitor. My overclocked 980ti can do 60-80 fps at 1440p in the games I play, it's uncertain when or if I upgrade to a 5700xt to break into the triple digit framerates. I tried an Acer KA272U IPS and it had horrible glow, impossible for me to use it for my needs. I've experienced the worst of what IPS can throw at me, next on the list is smearing. Does TN (aside from poor viewing angles) have similar fatal flaws as IPS and VA? Is smearing something that applies to all products of the same model or is it luck of the draw like bleeding and glow?

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Smearing (response times) are something that is consistent across different units within the same model. IPS and TN are still the best here, with most VA panels lagging a bit behind. Only high-end VA like the Samsung G7 has mostly fixed the response time and black level smearing issues.

 

IPS glow and backlight bleed are very similar issues and are completely up to random chance, no matter if it's TN, IPS or VA. From what i saw over the years, low-end or high-end doesn't really affect how bad backlight bleed and IPS glow can be. Like i said: random chance. That's also the reason why EVERY monitor has some user reviews about terrible backlight bleed or IPS glow.

 

TN panels have the added problem that the overall contrast is much worse, making blacks appear brighter than IPS and especially VA. This can negatively impact the screen uniformity more than IPS glow or backlight bleed. TN just doesn't have any advantage over IPS these days so it's imo a dead technology other than super-budget displays.

 

So nowadays the choice is basically IPS vs. VA for computer monitors, with OLED slowly creeping in but being reserved for the ultra high-end (and expensive) market segment. And OLED is basically the perfect display technology that doesn't suffer from any backlight bleed, IPS glow or smearing, with only one drawback: Risk of burn-in.

If someone did not use reason to reach their conclusion in the first place, you cannot use reason to convince them otherwise.

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10 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

Smearing (response times) are something that is consistent across different units within the same model. IPS and TN are still the best here, with most VA panels lagging a bit behind. Only high-end VA like the Samsung G7 has mostly fixed the response time and black level smearing issues.

 

IPS glow and backlight bleed are very similar issues and are completely up to random chance, no matter if it's TN, IPS or VA. From what i saw over the years, low-end or high-end doesn't really affect how bad backlight bleed and IPS glow can be. Like i said: random chance. That's also the reason why EVERY monitor has some user reviews about terrible backlight bleed or IPS glow.

 

TN panels have the added problem that the overall contrast is much worse, making blacks appear brighter than IPS and especially VA. This can negatively impact the screen uniformity more than IPS glow or backlight bleed. TN just doesn't have any advantage over IPS these days so it's imo a dead technology other than super-budget displays.

 

So nowadays the choice is basically IPS vs. VA for computer monitors, with OLED slowly creeping in but being reserved for the ultra high-end (and expensive) market segment. And OLED is basically the perfect display technology that doesn't suffer from any backlight bleed, IPS glow or smearing, with only one drawback: Risk of burn-in.

LG A1 sometimes are priced under those "high-end" LCD craponitors.

 

Personally I would go either for OLED or VA. Next year LG 42C2.

DAC/AMPs:

Klipsch Heritage Headphone Amplifier

Headphones: Klipsch Heritage HP-3 Walnut, Meze 109 Pro, Beyerdynamic Amiron Home, Amiron Wireless Copper, Tygr 300R, DT880 600ohm Manufaktur, T90, Fidelio X2HR

CPU: Intel 4770, GPU: Asus RTX3080 TUF Gaming OC, Mobo: MSI Z87-G45, RAM: DDR3 16GB G.Skill, PC Case: Fractal Design R4 Black non-iglass, Monitor: BenQ GW2280

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39 minutes ago, CTR640 said:

LG A1 sometimes are priced under those "high-end" LCD craponitors.

 

Personally I would go either for OLED or VA. Next year LG 42C2.

Nah not for a 60Hz panel. I'd not buy it for gaming. Then rather wait for the 42" C2.

If someone did not use reason to reach their conclusion in the first place, you cannot use reason to convince them otherwise.

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3 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

Nah not for a 60Hz panel. I'd not buy it for gaming. Then rather wait for the 42" C2.

Ikr. But still, the picture quality is superb. It depends on the persons if they don't mind 60hz. Definitely 42C2 indeed. 

DAC/AMPs:

Klipsch Heritage Headphone Amplifier

Headphones: Klipsch Heritage HP-3 Walnut, Meze 109 Pro, Beyerdynamic Amiron Home, Amiron Wireless Copper, Tygr 300R, DT880 600ohm Manufaktur, T90, Fidelio X2HR

CPU: Intel 4770, GPU: Asus RTX3080 TUF Gaming OC, Mobo: MSI Z87-G45, RAM: DDR3 16GB G.Skill, PC Case: Fractal Design R4 Black non-iglass, Monitor: BenQ GW2280

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15 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

with most VA panels lagging a bit behind. Only high-end VA like the Samsung G7 has mostly fixed the response time and black level smearing issues.

I've got an Acer Predator CG7, even with a relatively new & pretty high end display the smearing is very noticeable, especially compared to an IPS or TN monitor. I haven't seen the G7/G9 so idk if they handle it better but I sure hope so.

It's barely noticeable in games but grey/thin white text on black backgrounds is pretty bad, I actually switched my themes from black to a grey because of how distracting it is.

Overall it's a good display though, just wasn't expecting VA smearing to be as noticeable as it is.

(also no matter what I did for some reason I could not get it to feel right playing osu!, I presume it's input lag related but I have no way of testing it and in everything else I can't tell a difference)

why no dark mode?
Current:

Watercooled Eluktronics THICC-17 (Clevo X170SM-G):
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2 hours ago, Mnky313 said:

I've got an Acer Predator CG7, even with a relatively new & pretty high end display the smearing is very noticeable, especially compared to an IPS or TN monitor. I haven't seen the G7/G9 so idk if they handle it better but I sure hope so.

It's barely noticeable in games but grey/thin white text on black backgrounds is pretty bad, I actually switched my themes from black to a grey because of how distracting it is.

Overall it's a good display though, just wasn't expecting VA smearing to be as noticeable as it is.

(also no matter what I did for some reason I could not get it to feel right playing osu!, I presume it's input lag related but I have no way of testing it and in everything else I can't tell a difference)

The G7 is afaik the only monitor using one of Samsung's new and fast VA panels. So far they seem to be exclusive to Samsung, as no other brand has used the same panel so far. I agree it can be noticeable. I have an Asus PG35VQ which is also a high-end display and in dark areas there can be quite a lot of smearing, but i watched and read a lot of reviews so i knew what i was getting into when buying the monitor. All in all i don't feel it's so distracting that it takes away from the experience though because this monitor offers a lot especially in terms of HDR. But i don't play competitive games and mostly lost interest in shooters alltogether over the last 2 years, so YMMV. So for me i knew i'd take the tradeoff with lower response times and rather get better picture quality due to the higher contrast VA brings to the table, especially because i mostly play in a dimmly lit room.

 

So the conclusion is the same as always: There is no best LCD technology. Depending on the use case one is always better than the other, but so far there is no display technology without compromises.

If someone did not use reason to reach their conclusion in the first place, you cannot use reason to convince them otherwise.

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21 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

Smearing (response times) are something that is consistent across different units within the same model. IPS and TN are still the best here, with most VA panels lagging a bit behind. Only high-end VA like the Samsung G7 has mostly fixed the response time and black level smearing issues.

 

IPS glow and backlight bleed are very similar issues and are completely up to random chance, no matter if it's TN, IPS or VA. From what i saw over the years, low-end or high-end doesn't really affect how bad backlight bleed and IPS glow can be. Like i said: random chance. That's also the reason why EVERY monitor has some user reviews about terrible backlight bleed or IPS glow.

 

TN panels have the added problem that the overall contrast is much worse, making blacks appear brighter than IPS and especially VA. This can negatively impact the screen uniformity more than IPS glow or backlight bleed. TN just doesn't have any advantage over IPS these days so it's imo a dead technology other than super-budget displays.

 

So nowadays the choice is basically IPS vs. VA for computer monitors, with OLED slowly creeping in but being reserved for the ultra high-end (and expensive) market segment. And OLED is basically the perfect display technology that doesn't suffer from any backlight bleed, IPS glow or smearing, with only one drawback: Risk of burn-in.

Thank you! I play games at night so va is most likely the better option for me. But I was hoping more expensive monitors had better quality control so that the ips glow had less chances of happening (at least to the point where it's an eye sore)

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50 minutes ago, TheSponyX said:

Thank you! I play games at night so va is most likely the better option for me. But I was hoping more expensive monitors had better quality control so that the ips glow had less chances of happening (at least to the point where it's an eye sore)

No IPS glow is an issue no matter at what price point. But hey, it's not present on VA monitors, so if you're shopping for one of those it's not an issue for you!

If someone did not use reason to reach their conclusion in the first place, you cannot use reason to convince them otherwise.

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42 minutes ago, Stahlmann said:

No IPS glow is an issue no matter at what price point. But hey, it's not present on VA monitors, so if you're shopping for one of those it's not an issue for you!

Yeah I gave IPS a shot but I guess it's not for me. I saw you being active on other threads too so I don't want to create another thread where you'll respond to me anyway... I generally play RPGs, be it with fps elements or 3rd person adventure. My pc cannot push past 80 fps for the most part in those games so a 75hz monitor is more appropriate for it. Problem is only high refresh rate displays seem to get improved, and 75hz ones are left behind. Should I buy a 144hz monitor to get a nicer unit overall even if I will almost never use it to it's full capabilities? I don't care for future proofing as I'll need to build another pc from scratch to break the 100fps barrier and make 144hz worth it, and that's not gonna happen in the foreseeable future.

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Just now, TheSponyX said:

Yeah I gave IPS a shot but I guess it's not for me. I saw you being active on other threads too so I don't want to create another thread where you'll respond to me anyway... I generally play RPGs, be it with fps elements or 3rd person adventure. My pc cannot push past 80 fps for the most part in those games so a 75hz monitor is more appropriate for it. Problem is only high refresh rate displays seem to get improved, and 75hz ones are left behind. Should I buy a 144hz monitor to get a nicer unit overall even if I will almost never use it to it's full capabilities? I don't care for future proofing as I'll need to build another pc from scratch to break the 100fps barrier and make 144hz worth it, and that's not gonna happen in the foreseeable future.

You should invest in a 144Hz monitor imo. Even if you'll only achieve the full fps on your desktop it will still make your whole PC feel snappier and more responsive. And for everything else there still is VRR, which always adjusts the refresh rate to your fps be it 60 or 80.

If someone did not use reason to reach their conclusion in the first place, you cannot use reason to convince them otherwise.

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2 hours ago, TheSponyX said:

Thank you! I play games at night so va is most likely the better option for me. But I was hoping more expensive monitors had better quality control so that the ips glow had less chances of happening (at least to the point where it's an eye sore)

Just because something is expensive, doesn't make it a better quality control. See Scamsung for example with their G9 Neo and other G series. Plagued by broken HDR, flickering, non-exist quality control.

 

If you play games at night like I do, then VA is really the way to go. Black is more like grey on IPS and in dark scenes like nights in games will look washed out. My current VA monitor is a simple BenQ GW2280. Don't understimate this cheap monitor, screen uniformity is excellent, colors are nice, although that's subjective and blacks looks really nice in games and movies. You also mentioned smearing. That differs from panel to panel. I once had the same VA monitor and that unit had terrible smearing like blue smearing in dark scenes when moving the mouse or scrolling. I got replacement and this unit is excellent. Smearing is not noticeable if you won't look for it. After some time, you'll get used to it and accept the fact that's VA thing, just like IPS has with IPS glows.

DAC/AMPs:

Klipsch Heritage Headphone Amplifier

Headphones: Klipsch Heritage HP-3 Walnut, Meze 109 Pro, Beyerdynamic Amiron Home, Amiron Wireless Copper, Tygr 300R, DT880 600ohm Manufaktur, T90, Fidelio X2HR

CPU: Intel 4770, GPU: Asus RTX3080 TUF Gaming OC, Mobo: MSI Z87-G45, RAM: DDR3 16GB G.Skill, PC Case: Fractal Design R4 Black non-iglass, Monitor: BenQ GW2280

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8 minutes ago, TheSponyX said:

Yeah I gave IPS a shot but I guess it's not for me. I saw you being active on other threads too so I don't want to create another thread where you'll respond to me anyway... I generally play RPGs, be it with fps elements or 3rd person adventure. My pc cannot push past 80 fps for the most part in those games so a 75hz monitor is more appropriate for it. Problem is only high refresh rate displays seem to get improved, and 75hz ones are left behind. Should I buy a 144hz monitor to get a nicer unit overall even if I will almost never use it to it's full capabilities? I don't care for future proofing as I'll need to build another pc from scratch to break the 100fps barrier and make 144hz worth it, and that's not gonna happen in the foreseeable future.

Don't worry about that. I once had a 240hz and my PC can run GTAV easily at above 80fps up to 120fps. Screen is really damn smooth, easier for the eyes and pleasure to the eyes too. Just because it's 240hz, you don't have to get 240fps. Input lag also improves on high refresh monitor. 120hz and up is better.

DAC/AMPs:

Klipsch Heritage Headphone Amplifier

Headphones: Klipsch Heritage HP-3 Walnut, Meze 109 Pro, Beyerdynamic Amiron Home, Amiron Wireless Copper, Tygr 300R, DT880 600ohm Manufaktur, T90, Fidelio X2HR

CPU: Intel 4770, GPU: Asus RTX3080 TUF Gaming OC, Mobo: MSI Z87-G45, RAM: DDR3 16GB G.Skill, PC Case: Fractal Design R4 Black non-iglass, Monitor: BenQ GW2280

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10 minutes ago, CTR640 said:

Don't worry about that. I once had a 240hz and my PC can run GTAV easily at above 80fps up to 120fps. Screen is really damn smooth, easier for the eyes and pleasure to the eyes too. Just because it's 240hz, you don't have to get 240fps. Input lag also improves on high refresh monitor. 120hz and up is better.

I know I don't need 144fps to enjoy 144hz, but ideally I'd want at least 3 digits on the fps counter. It's sad 90hz monitors didn't really take off.

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22 minutes ago, Stahlmann said:

You should invest in a 144Hz monitor imo. Even if you'll only achieve the full fps on your desktop it will still make your whole PC feel snappier and more responsive. And for everything else there still is VRR, which always adjusts the refresh rate to your fps be it 60 or 80.

Yeah another advantage of high refresh rate monitors, vrr with lfc. That's why I said 75hz monitors are left behind while 144hz ones are getting all the fancy stuff.

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1 minute ago, TheSponyX said:

Yeah another advantage of high refresh rate monitors, vrr with lfc. That's why I said 75hz monitors are left behind while 144hz ones are getting all the fancy stuff.

Many 75Hz monitors also have VRR, even non-gaming ones. It's basically a standard feature nowadays and all but the cheapest monitors have it.

If someone did not use reason to reach their conclusion in the first place, you cannot use reason to convince them otherwise.

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Iiyama does have 75hz VA monitors. I had one and there is a noticeable difference, even visuals. In GTAV you can see how the helicopter blades looks really smooth. In 60hz, they're not.

 

It's sad most of the high refresh monitors looks like child trash or some alien crap. I wish they could look more stylish, slick and normal looking. I'd really feel embarrassed when my family come to see us and first thing they see is some "gamery" crap on my stylish and elegant walnut desk.

DAC/AMPs:

Klipsch Heritage Headphone Amplifier

Headphones: Klipsch Heritage HP-3 Walnut, Meze 109 Pro, Beyerdynamic Amiron Home, Amiron Wireless Copper, Tygr 300R, DT880 600ohm Manufaktur, T90, Fidelio X2HR

CPU: Intel 4770, GPU: Asus RTX3080 TUF Gaming OC, Mobo: MSI Z87-G45, RAM: DDR3 16GB G.Skill, PC Case: Fractal Design R4 Black non-iglass, Monitor: BenQ GW2280

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45 minutes ago, CTR640 said:

Iiyama does have 75hz VA monitors. I had one and there is a noticeable difference, even visuals. In GTAV you can see how the helicopter blades looks really smooth. In 60hz, they're not.

 

It's sad most of the high refresh monitors looks like child trash or some alien crap. I wish they could look more stylish, slick and normal looking. I'd really feel embarrassed when my family come to see us and first thing they see is some "gamery" crap on my stylish and elegant walnut desk.

There are offerings that have a more understated and "standard black chassis" like LG's monitors or Gigabyte's offerings (not Aorus). But the sad reality is that gamery looks and RGB sell stuff, that's why everyone jumps on.

If someone did not use reason to reach their conclusion in the first place, you cannot use reason to convince them otherwise.

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26 minutes ago, Stahlmann said:

There are offerings that have a more understated and "standard black chassis" like LG's monitors or Gigabyte's offerings (not Aorus). But the sad reality is that gamery looks and RGB sell stuff, that's why everyone jumps on.

Good Lord, too many morons on the RGB and gamery bandwagons... Just like ugly GPU's. My Aorus 1080Ti was the cheapest (€678) I could buy new 3 years ago after the crypto crashed. Fractal R4 non-glass so no big issue. The more and brighter the RGB, the lesser input lag🤣

DAC/AMPs:

Klipsch Heritage Headphone Amplifier

Headphones: Klipsch Heritage HP-3 Walnut, Meze 109 Pro, Beyerdynamic Amiron Home, Amiron Wireless Copper, Tygr 300R, DT880 600ohm Manufaktur, T90, Fidelio X2HR

CPU: Intel 4770, GPU: Asus RTX3080 TUF Gaming OC, Mobo: MSI Z87-G45, RAM: DDR3 16GB G.Skill, PC Case: Fractal Design R4 Black non-iglass, Monitor: BenQ GW2280

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I miss thicker bezels. They offer security. You can grasp them with your palm instead of just squishing the frame when you move it around to clean the dust. And unless you use a multi monitor setup with two identical monitors, I don't see the point.

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6 hours ago, TheSponyX said:

I miss thicker bezels. They offer security. You can grasp them with your palm instead of just squishing the frame when you move it around to clean the dust. And unless you use a multi monitor setup with two identical monitors, I don't see the point.

Exactly! All the times I had to be carefull because the bezels are thin and all just to clean the monitor, desk and PC.

DAC/AMPs:

Klipsch Heritage Headphone Amplifier

Headphones: Klipsch Heritage HP-3 Walnut, Meze 109 Pro, Beyerdynamic Amiron Home, Amiron Wireless Copper, Tygr 300R, DT880 600ohm Manufaktur, T90, Fidelio X2HR

CPU: Intel 4770, GPU: Asus RTX3080 TUF Gaming OC, Mobo: MSI Z87-G45, RAM: DDR3 16GB G.Skill, PC Case: Fractal Design R4 Black non-iglass, Monitor: BenQ GW2280

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15 hours ago, ExalyThor said:

I miss thicker bezels. They offer security. You can grasp them with your palm instead of just squishing the frame when you move it around to clean the dust. And unless you use a multi monitor setup with two identical monitors, I don't see the point.

I think it looks better, so I prefer it. Wouldn't pay lots more just for them to be little thinner.

I don't move my monitor around when cleaning dust, I just let it stand where it is.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Try to make sense of what you see and wonder about what makes the universe exist. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. 
It matters that you don't just give up.”

-Stephen Hawking

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Hey folks! What do you think of this monitor? 32GK850F-B it seems great, and it's priced at $350 which includes tax.

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30 minutes ago, ExalyThor said:

Hey folks! What do you think of this monitor? 32GK850F-B it seems great, and it's priced at $350 which includes tax.

It's a decent option, but the LG 32GN650-B should be priced fairly similar while being newer and slightly better in terms of response times.

If someone did not use reason to reach their conclusion in the first place, you cannot use reason to convince them otherwise.

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7 minutes ago, Stahlmann said:

It's a decent option, but the LG 32GN650-B should be priced fairly similar while being newer and slightly better in terms of response times.

This one has better colors from what I've read... DCI-P3 at 95%

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