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Any reason to not take a320 for 3200g if not OCing?

Filingo
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I want to get the cheap Gigabye a320m-s2h for the 3200g. No OCing. I saw it has 3+3 VRM so that's better than some other 4+2 motherboards for an APU right? 

(I'm asking this because people just recommend immediately the B450 at least)

 

Not OCing. Simple HTPC.

 

My concern is just the VRMs without heatsink. Are they adequate for this usage? Or they can still get overheat?

Thanks

 

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I ran a ryzen 5 1400 on Asus A320m-k. You should have no problems.

- If it ain't broken, don't fix it! - - Your post codes and beep codes in the drop down below -

Competitive Benching Team - Warp9-Systems 

Save the old OC forums just by reading old school tec

https://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/index.php

They have the best F@H stats too. 

Spoiler

 

 

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Just now, ShrimpBrime said:

I ran a ryzen 5 1400 on Asus A320m-k. You should have no problems.

thank you

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You can't overclock on a A320 chipset motherboard.

The number of phases is not a good indicator - the components used in each phase also matter.  You could have 4 phases with power stages / mosfets that do 70A of current, or you could have 3+3 with power stages / mosfets that are rated for maximum 40A.

 

Anyway, a 3200g consumes 50-60 watts ... at around 0.9v...1v operating voltage that's around 60-80A spread across 4-6 mosfets / power phases ... so that's maybe 20A per mosfet or power stage and that's not a big deal for even weak mosfets.

 

No, for a HTPC the integrated video card playing movies and 2D stuff... that consumes very little power, like maybe 10-20w... so 2 phases is plenty.

 

 

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1 minute ago, mariushm said:

You can't overclock on a A320 chipset motherboard.

The number of phases is not a good indicator - the components used in each phase also matter.  You could have 4 phases with power stages / mosfets that do 70A of current, or you could have 3+3 with power stages / mosfets that are rated for maximum 40A.

 

Anyway, a 3200g consumes 50-60 watts ... at around 0.9v...1v operating voltage that's around 60-80A spread across 4-6 mosfets / power phases ... so that's maybe 20A per mosfet or power stage and that's not a big deal for even weak mosfets.

 

No, for a HTPC the integrated video card playing movies and 2D stuff... that consumes very little power, like maybe 10-20w... so 2 phases is plenty.

 

 

Thank you! Then if I had to choose between the Gigabyte A320M-S2H or the MSI A320M-A Pro Max - which one do you think is better?

 

There's a spreadsheet with information on all AM4 motherboards, including these 2, but I just don't understand that deeply, maybe you would know:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wmsTYK9Z3-jUX5LGRoFnsZYZiW1pfiDZnKCjaXyzd1o/edit#gid=2112472504

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Yeah, I'm familiar with that spreadsheet.

 

So the MSI board is a bit better. 

Each phase has a hi-side and a lo-side mosfet  or a power stage which incorporates these two mosfets.  The lo-side mosfet is the one that's more "busy" and which produces more heat, so that's more important.

 

The Gigabyte board uses 3 phases for CPU, each with 2 mosfets rated for 69A and 4 mOhm rdsOn value (lower is better). For GPU, again 3 phases with just 1 mosfet with same specs, 69A and 4mOhm

 

The MSI board uses 3 phases for CPU, each with 2 mosfets rated for 80A and 3 mOhm rdsOn, so you'll get less heat in theory, which means VRM will be cooler. For GPU, it's only 2 phases, but there's 2 mosfets in parallel on each phase, so there's 4 mosfets in total... again same specs, 80A and 3 mOhm

 

So  for cpu, it's  414A and 4 mOhm on Gigabyte versus  480A ad 3mOhm for MSI  for the CPU  , and there's 207A vs 320A for the SoC.

 

The chips are also more spaced out on the MSI board, which means the chips can radiate some of the heat into the circuit board better, there's more copper around them to act as a heatsink, so the VRM should be a bit cooler than Gigabyte's VRM. 

It also looks like it's more suited for do-it-yourself heatsinking, as the chips are more "aligned"  so you could easily get some double sided thermal conductive adhesive tape / thermal pad and apply a heatsink over the chips.

 

note that those peak currents are on their own pointless. I mean, 69A or 80A is doable, but only if the chip is by its own, surrounded by maybe an inch or so of circuit board, and under a big heatsink.  In real world, that's not the case, the chips are much closer together, so heat from one chip raises the ambient temperature of the other chip, and there's no heatsinks on top of the chips... so obviously as they're installed on the motherboard those chips aren't capable of handling 69 or 80A  ... maybe 40-50A they can do.

 

But like I said, there's multiple phases and each phase has 2 in parallel, so each individual chip doesn't get more than 10-30A of current, and that's something manageable.

 

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13 minutes ago, mariushm said:

mosfets rated for 69A

n o i c e

 

Well if you want a cheap htpc why not just go for a really cheap b450 instead? Might aswell have the extra features for only a few bucks more than a cheap a320, also since its an htpc you could prob do some undervolting for less power consumption and lower temps and just overclock rams as compensation (free performance for basically no power consumption increase)

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30 minutes ago, mariushm said:

Yeah, I'm familiar with that spreadsheet.

 

So the MSI board is a bit better. 

Each phase has a hi-side and a lo-side mosfet  or a power stage which incorporates these two mosfets.  The lo-side mosfet is the one that's more "busy" and which produces more heat, so that's more important.

 

The Gigabyte board uses 3 phases for CPU, each with 2 mosfets rated for 69A and 4 mOhm rdsOn value (lower is better). For GPU, again 3 phases with just 1 mosfet with same specs, 69A and 4mOhm

 

The MSI board uses 3 phases for CPU, each with 2 mosfets rated for 80A and 3 mOhm rdsOn, so you'll get less heat in theory, which means VRM will be cooler. For GPU, it's only 2 phases, but there's 2 mosfets in parallel on each phase, so there's 4 mosfets in total... again same specs, 80A and 3 mOhm

 

So  for cpu, it's  414A and 4 mOhm on Gigabyte versus  480A ad 3mOhm for MSI  for the CPU  , and there's 207A vs 320A for the SoC.

 

The chips are also more spaced out on the MSI board, which means the chips can radiate some of the heat into the circuit board better, there's more copper around them to act as a heatsink, so the VRM should be a bit cooler than Gigabyte's VRM. 

It also looks like it's more suited for do-it-yourself heatsinking, as the chips are more "aligned"  so you could easily get some double sided thermal conductive adhesive tape / thermal pad and apply a heatsink over the chips.

 

note that those peak currents are on their own pointless. I mean, 69A or 80A is doable, but only if the chip is by its own, surrounded by maybe an inch or so of circuit board, and under a big heatsink.  In real world, that's not the case, the chips are much closer together, so heat from one chip raises the ambient temperature of the other chip, and there's no heatsinks on top of the chips... so obviously as they're installed on the motherboard those chips aren't capable of handling 69 or 80A  ... maybe 40-50A they can do.

 

But like I said, there's multiple phases and each phase has 2 in parallel, so each individual chip doesn't get more than 10-30A of current, and that's something manageable.

 

WoW what a detailed answer, thank you!

So should I cancel my order and get the MSI one? 

Btw, would the answer to this above question change if it was a Vega 11 APU instead of Vega 8?

 

16 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

n o i c e

😂

16 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Well if you want a cheap htpc why not just go for a really cheap b450 instead? Might aswell have the extra features for only a few bucks more than a cheap a320, also since its an htpc you could prob do some undervolting for less power consumption and lower temps and just overclock rams as compensation (free performance for basically no power consumption increase)

I'm planning to add a few more things to the same order with free shipping up to certain amount below VAT limit if I pass this limit I'll have to pay more than 20% of the total (including shipping)

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3 minutes ago, Filingo said:

So should I cancel my order and get the MSI one? 

I'd say yeah, if you can and there's no repercussions, go for the MSI model.

 

One observation.

 

The Gigabyte board has a plus that it also has VGA so 3 video outputs (hdmi + dvi + vga) while the MSI board has only HDMI + DVI so no analogue output (you'd need a HDMI to VGA adapter/converter to get VGA).

But you said you do a HTPC build, so you won't care about vga in that case.

 

The Gigabyte also has one extra pci-e x1 slot  but I doubt you really gonna use them ... and the MSI board has slightly better onboard audio (ALC892  while gigabyte has ALC887)

 

Any other options? Do you have some combo deals (cpu + mobo) ?

 

The IT store I prefer does combo deals  where they bundle the MSI A320M-A Pro Max with processors like Ryzen 3 Pro 2100 GE ... they sell the bundle at 139$  (includes 20% VAT). By itself, the MSI board is 49$ here, while the Gigabyte board is strangely 10$ more expensive  (I say dollars but it's all in local currency, converted it to $ to keep things simple)

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, mariushm said:

I'd say yeah, if you can and there's no repercussions, go for the MSI model.

 

One observation.

 

The Gigabyte board has a plus that it also has VGA so 3 video outputs (hdmi + dvi + vga) while the MSI board has only HDMI + DVI so no analogue output (you'd need a HDMI to VGA adapter/converter to get VGA).

But you said you do a HTPC build, so you won't care about vga in that case.

 

The Gigabyte also has one extra pci-e x1 slot  but I doubt you really gonna use them ... and the MSI board has slightly better onboard audio (ALC892  while gigabyte has ALC887)

 

Any other options? Do you have some combo deals (cpu + mobo) ?

 

The IT store I prefer does combo deals  where they bundle the MSI A320M-A Pro Max with processors like Ryzen 3 Pro 2100 GE ... they sell the bundle at 139$  (includes 20% VAT). By itself, the MSI board is 49$ here, while the Gigabyte board is strangely 10$ more expensive  (I say dollars but it's all in local currency, converted it to $ to keep things simple)

 

 

 

I buy it on Amazon, so didn't find deals there. (I might however sell the 3200g for a 3350g pro with Vega 11, that's why I asked about the Vega)

 

My only other option that's in my budget, is the ASRock A320M-DVS R4.0 - what do you think about this one?

 

Edit: @mariushm I can also get the Gigabyte GA-AB350M-DS3H V2

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@mariushm, I'm reading through this spreadsheet out of curiosity and noticed that for the low-side VRMs, when the mOhm is above 3, it's marked with red color- it means above 3mOhms, the resistance is high and it gets hotter? (Because the MSI board is 3mOhms and colored blue, and the Gigabyte one is red)

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Lower resistance is always better.  The author of the spreadsheet probably picked 4 mOhm as an arbitrary value from where to change the color. 

 

rdsOn is the resistance of the mosfet when it's on, when it behaves like a on/off switch. 

From there, in a very simplified way, the losses would be Power = I2 x R so for let's say 10A of current going through the mosfet, you'd have P = 10x10 x 0.003 = 0.3 watts of heat produced. 

Again, it's more complex than that, lots of other things that are a part of the efficiency calculations... 

 

re previous questions, don't know about the asrock board, doesn't look that good to me. 

As for that gigabyte board ... hmm, probably not, it's with the b350 chipset, and it's probably older design than A320 chipset boards.  With a 3200g it would probably be fine, but the vrm is weak (at least  you get some heatsink on it, but it's still quite weak).

These old B350 boards had problems with memory, some of them couldn't even run memory at 3200 Mhz and you had to go to 3000 or 2933 Mhz.

 

Can't go into detail cause I'm at work now so I can't spend time researching.

 

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9 minutes ago, mariushm said:

Lower resistance is always better.  The author of the spreadsheet probably picked 4 mOhm as an arbitrary value from where to change the color. 

 

rdsOn is the resistance of the mosfet when it's on, when it behaves like a on/off switch. 

From there, in a very simplified way, the losses would be Power = I2 x R so for let's say 10A of current going through the mosfet, you'd have P = 10x10 x 0.003 = 0.3 watts of heat produced. 

Again, it's more complex than that, lots of other things that are a part of the efficiency calculations... 

 

re previous questions, don't know about the asrock board, doesn't look that good to me. 

As for that gigabyte board ... hmm, probably not, it's with the b350 chipset, and it's probably older design than A320 chipset boards.  With a 3200g it would probably be fine, but the vrm is weak (at least  you get some heatsink on it, but it's still quite weak).

These old B350 boards had problems with memory, some of them couldn't even run memory at 3200 Mhz and you had to go to 3000 or 2933 Mhz.

 

Can't go into detail cause I'm at work now so I can't spend time researching.

 

Thank you very much, I am going with the MSI A320M-A Pro Max. Also noticed the B450M-A Pro Max is in my budget, but I saw that the VRMs are identical, and no heatsink so I'd just go with the A320 for such a simple usage. Thank you very much for all your help

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