Which of these power supplies is the best?

[virtualninja78]

Hi there ! This is my first post on the LTT forum.

I am building a PC with either a Ryzen 5 5600X or a Ryzen 7 5800X and also planning on adding a RTX 3060/ RTX 3060 Ti class GPU. I think a 650 watt power supply should be enough for such a system. After reading a bunch of reviews online, I finally have these options to choose from:

 

Cooler master mwe 650 v2 bronze - $60

Corsair cv650 - $65

Silverstone viva 650 gold - $75

XPG pylon 650w bronze - $75 (this one seems ok too, but only has a 3-year warranty compared to 5-years for the cx650m)

Corsair cx650m - $80 (this is the best PSU I can currently get without allocating more budget for the power supply)

Antec neo eco gold 650 - $90
Asus tuf gaming 650 bronze - $90
DEEPCOOL DQ650-M-V2L 650 - $95
Cooler Master MWE Gold 650W - $95

The ones below all had good reviews on Tom's hardware etc. but are costlier.
Corsair CX650f - $105
Corsair TX650m - $110
Corsair RM650 - $120
ADATA XPG Core reactor 650 - $115
NZXT C650 gold - $115

 

I've also included the prices these are being sold for in my country. Other brands like Seasonic etc. aren't available. 

 

I know these are all budget PSUs but spending more money on a PSU simply means that I'll have less money to spend on other parts (CPU/ RAM/ SSD) which is certainly going to affect the system's performance.

So which of these PSUs should I choose? I just want to ensure that the PSU has necessary protection features available and that it doesn't fail catastrophically (like those exploding PSUs from Gigabyte) and is able to keep all other components safe. Is it really necessary to buy something like the RM650 instead of the CX650M?

 

Thanks!

[--SID--]

XPG Core Reactor is the best. With expensive hardware like a Ryzen 5800X and RTX 3060 Ti you don't want nothing else than a high-end PSU.

 

Budget option is the Silverstone Viva Gold.

 

Corsair CV650, CX650M and XPG Pylon are a no go because of the double forward topology.

Cooler Master MWE V2 Bronze is low quality. Asus TUF too.

Antec Neo Eco Gold is available in 2 flavours, yellow and green. Which one is it?

The Deepcool has issues with <100v poweroutlets.

Cooler Master MWE Gold is okayish.

 

This is it:

1. Core Reactor

2. MWE Gold

3. Viva Gold (and probably Neo Eco Gold if it's has a yellow label)

[mariushm]

A 500w psu would be plenty ... the 3060ti peaks at maybe 230w (basically consumes as much as an RX 580 did only now people are exaggerating power requirements) and a 5600x / 5800x won't consume more than 100-120w  - so anything that can do 400w or more on 12v output would be plenty.

 

A 650w psu would give you plenty of margin and will keep the psu from spinning fans high and make lots of noise.

Throw the cv series from Corsair out

 

The cooler master mwe 650 v2 would probably be fine and the price is very good.

 

Oh man ... this SID guy starts to piss me off ...   "Corsair CV650, CX650M and XPG Pylon are a no go because of the double formward topology. "   ... who the fuck cares how the power supply converts 110/230v AC to lower voltages, as long as it does it safely...  I'd understand CV series because it's only rated for low ambient temperature (30c if I remember correctly) and that's bad, but I'd be ok with CX650M - it does the job advertised.

Nothing wrong with the "double forward topology", there were millions of power supplies made with it.

 

Core Reactor isn't even listed in the options ... no idea who makes it, who's the oem etc etc

 

I don't know enough about Silverstone Viva to say an opinion about it and I don't have time to research it. It's a budget/mainstream series either way, nothing special. From pictures, it doesn't look like Sirtec/HighPower design and heatsinks are more like on Andyson units.

Usually Silverstone tended to go for "acceptable performance for good to very good price", not for  "very high quality / performance for money"

 

 

[Juular]

48 minutes ago, mariushm said:

who the fuck cares how the power supply converts 110/230v AC to lower voltages

People who care whether their PSU screams like a banshee or not.

48 minutes ago, mariushm said:

Core Reactor isn't even listed in the options ... no idea who makes it, who's the oem etc etc

CWT, google it, there are reviews.

48 minutes ago, mariushm said:

Silverstone Viva ... From pictures, it doesn't look like Sirtec/HighPower design and heatsinks are more like on Andyson units.

It looks like this; https://www.techpowerup.com/review/chieftec-polaris-psu-750-w/3.html, because it is. We have that unit on hands, no review yet tho.

1 hour ago, --SID-- said:

XPG Core Reactor is the best.

I'd say that and Corsair RM, but XPG is cheaper so be it. If the budget is really an issue then Silverstone VIVA Gold instead, for 75$ it sure looks like a good deal.

[mariushm]

15 minutes ago, Juular said:

People who care whether their PSU screams like a banshee or not.

CWT, google it, there are reviews.

It looks like this; https://www.techpowerup.com/review/chieftec-polaris-psu-750-w/3.html, because it is.

The topology doesn't define how noisy a power supply is but it does affect overall efficiency.

While double forward may be less efficient than other topologies, bigger heatsinks and/or better fans can easily counteract the few percent of efficiency loss and still have a reasonable power supply.

 

Thermaltake Smart RGB 500w is double forward topology and isn't that noisy and overall it's decent psu for the price, achieving 85%+ at 50-70% load : https://www.techpowerup.com/review/thermaltake-smart-rgb-500-w-230v/5.html

Yeah, the conclusions page does have quite a few cons, but none of them are "avoid at all costs" or "dangerous for your system" ... and that's typical for that price range.

 

Here's a 850w psu, which does 90% efficiency at 40% or higher load, and it's double forward topology : https://www.techpowerup.com/review/lepa-g850-mas/5.html

Yeah, the conclusion does say "Fan becomes noisy at full speed", but that full speed would only be used when your components take close to 700-800w, and his configuration won't get close to 500w so problem solved, fan won't be noisy.

 

As for SIlverstone Viva ...

 

Yeah, so just like I assumed, it's a High Power / Sirtec OEM design, which means the power supply should have average/good performance for a good price.

The cons in the review are similar to the cons in the Thermaltake Smart RGB 500w psu ... nothing critical, just typical tradeoffs for the price point.

At $75 it should be an OK choice. Hopefully it has at least 3 years warranty.

 

[--SID--]

8 minutes ago, mariushm said:

The topology doesn't define how noisy a power supply is but it does affect overall efficiency.

While double forward may be less efficient than other topologies, bigger heatsinks and/or better fans can easily counteract the few percent of efficiency loss and still have a reasonable power supply.

 

Thermaltake Smart RGB 500w is double forward topology and isn't that noisy and overall it's decent psu for the price, achieving 85%+ at 50-70% load : https://www.techpowerup.com/review/thermaltake-smart-rgb-500-w-230v/5.html

Yeah, the conclusions page does have quite a few cons, but none of them are "avoid at all costs" or "dangerous for your system" ... and that's typical for that price range.

 

Here's a 850w psu, which does 90% efficiency at 40% or higher load, and it's double forward topology : https://www.techpowerup.com/review/lepa-g850-mas/5.html

Yeah, the conclusion does say "Fan becomes noisy at full speed", but that full speed would only be used when your components take close to 700-800w, and his configuration won't get close to 500w so problem solved, fan won't be noisy.

 

As for SIlverstone Viva ...

 

Yeah, so just like I assumed, it's a High Power / Sirtec OEM design, which means the power supply should have average/good performance for a good price.

The cons in the review are similar to the cons in the Thermaltake Smart RGB 500w psu ... nothing critical, just typical tradeoffs for the price point.

At $75 it should be an OK choice. Hopefully it has at least 3 years warranty.

 

It's not about the fan noise. Ever heard about coilwine?

8 minutes ago, mariushm said:

Thermaltake Smart RGB 500w is double forward topology and isn't that noisy and overall it's decent psu for the price, achieving 85%+ at 50-70% load : https://www.techpowerup.com/review/thermaltake-smart-rgb-500-w-230v/5.html

You really don't know what you're talking about. Take a look at the crossloads test and discover how bad the voltage regulation of the unit is due to the groupregulated design on the secondairy. Nowadays you have to avoid groupregulated units anyway.

[Juular]

27 minutes ago, mariushm said:

The topology doesn't define how noisy a power supply is but it does affect overall efficiency.

It does, properly tuned ZVS topology like LLC resonant has way less switching noise and therefore near zero transformer and secondary side coil/capacitor whine due to decreased magnetostriction forces. It's especially relevant with relatively high-end and modern GPUs like RTX series which induce some noise on their own due to very aggressive power level switching.

27 minutes ago, mariushm said:

Thermaltake Smart RGB 500w is double forward topology and isn't that noisy and overall it's decent psu for the price, achieving 85%+ at 50-70% load 

It's ... not. Efficiency is near irrelevant, and in this case it's not even any good to start with, even from the graphs there you can see it ended up being at the very lbottom of what Aris have tested. It would've been okay for like 30$ maybe, not for 60-70$ it usually goes for.

27 minutes ago, mariushm said:

but none of them are "avoid at all costs" or "dangerous for your system" ... and that's typical for that price range.

No one said that double-forward PSUs are inherently dangerous. They're simply prone to transformer whine, especially with GPUs like this. So given that OP has some LLC resonant options even within their budget, they would be prefered. And speaking of Thermaltake Smart, it's also not only double-forward but also group regulated, which means that voltage regulation under crossloads, especially in transient load scenarios which GPU like this warrants, wouldn't be very good, likely significantly out of specifications.

[mariushm]

6 minutes ago, --SID-- said:

It's not about the fan noise. Ever heard about coilwine?

Yes, I know a lot about coilwhine.  And the topology of a power supply doesn't define how much coilwhine a power supply would produce.

 

You could have a titanium efficiency power supply that has coil whine or which causes coil whine in a video card simply due to the operating frequencies or other reasons - coil whine is often caused by interaction of multiple dc-dc converters in the power supply.

 

6 minutes ago, --SID-- said:

You really don't know what you're talking about. Take a look at the crossloads test and discover how bad the voltage regulation of the unit is due to the groupregulated design on the secondairy. Nowadays you have to avoid groupregulated units anyway.

I do know what I'm talking about.

I can look at crossload tests and I can firmly say that it's a STUPID thing to be commenting about.

 

The crossload tests are NOT realistic and are not supposed to fault a power supply, a power supply is not expected to be perfect with crossloads... there's barely any computer out there which consumes a ton of power on 5v and 3.3v and little on 12v,  or the other way around .. all power on 12v and nothing on the other voltages.

 

Let's look at the chart, i pasted it below :

 

crossload 1: 

 

NOBODY's gonna have a system that consumes only 0.1A on 12v.. You have at least 2 fans in a normal computer, and each fan will typically consume at least 0.1..0.25A, then you have mechanical drives, you have the VRM for the CPU (even at idle, the cpu will consume around 5w or around half an amp)

NOBODY's gonna have 12A on 5v and on 3.3v at the same time these days. One may have 12A on 5v with 10-15 mechanical drives, maybe if he/she builds a NAS system, or something like that.

Honestly, the only way one could use a power supply with these loads would be if he/she builds one of those old P4 systems with VRM powered by 5v (very few, before Intel went with the 4 pin 12v cpu connector) and they use a SATA to IDE adapter.  And even then, you'd have at least a cpu fan that pulls more than 0.1A from 12v (and fans are rated 12v +/- 10% so they wouldn't care about 12v being close to 13v)

 

You can see in the 10% load scenario that the power supply behaves very well with just 2A on 12v and typical values on 5v and 3.3v

 

crossload 2:

 

Yes, 11.5v is a bit low... but again, NOBODY's gonna have one of these power supplies used like this. The video card is gonna pull 2-3A on 3.3v through the pci-e slot. The onboard audio, network etc will use 3.3v or 5v, the chipset will use 5v, the motherboard will use 5v or 12v to power the RAM slots, you have at least 5-10 watts used by a couple of ram sticks and if that's pulled from 5v, it's already 1A on 5v just for the RAM on the motherboard.

 

 

 

[Juular]

32 minutes ago, mariushm said:

I can firmly say that it's a STUPID thing to be commenting about.

Now look at transient load testing results and imagine how much worse it would become when you combine bad voltage regulation results under mild crossloads which would still be about 3% off nominal which is static load test, and 2-3% undershoot/overshoot in dynamic load. Yes, VRMs are often capable of sustaining way wider input voltage margins than +-5% defined by ATX standard, but do you really want to pay 50$+ for a PSU that would also put increased stress on the of the rest of your 1k$+ PC ? And then painstakingly troubleshoot random issues out of nowhere and wonder, whether the culprit is actually your obsolete PSU with RGB you paid 70$ for or not ? Group regulated PSUs have absolutely no place in a modern PC with any GPU with power draw higher than 100-150W. Partly because paying 20$ more out of total budget for the whole PC in thousands for a decent PSU with DC-DC instead of some random group regulated RGB crap is not that much of a deal in my opinion. I dont even get why we're still arguing over this today. DC-DC was in ATX PSUs for like 15 years already, it's early issues are long gone, no such thing as coil whine due to multiple DC-DC converters interacting with each other in a modern, properly designed PSU. There are a ton of relatively cheap but decent designs, even utilizing LLC resonant primary. Way better than that ancient stuff Thermaltake and a ton of other brands are still selling to clueless people with like 500% margins. Which are often, due to the age of design also utilize some gimped supervisor IC without half the protections and no backup protections in DC-DC controllers because it's a group reg.

[virtualninja78]

19 hours ago, --SID-- said:

Corsair CV650, CX650M and XPG Pylon are a no go because of the double forward topology.

 

 

17 hours ago, --SID-- said:

Take a look at the crossloads test and discover how bad the voltage regulation of the unit is due to the groupregulated design on the secondairy.

 

17 hours ago, Juular said:

It does, properly tuned ZVS topology like LLC resonant has way less switching noise and therefore near zero transformer and secondary side coil/capacitor whine due to decreased magnetostriction forces.

I honestly have no idea what any of this means. I am even more confused now lol. I guess I should read a little bit more about how power supplies work.

17 hours ago, Juular said:

So given that OP has some LLC resonant options even within their budget, they would be prefered.

Which ones are you referring to here?

 

I know the Corsair RM650, CX650m and the core reactor are all good power supplies (but they also cost more so that would be expected) and those $90+ power supplies really aren't within my budget and I'll have to cut costs elsewhere to get one of those.

 

Do I really need to spend that much on a psu given that I won't be doing any overclocking and that I don't need 650 watts of power either. So I would like to know if CX650m and pylon 650w can get the job done because both of these seem to have good reviews on Tom's hardware (and are cheaper):

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/xpg-pylon-650w-power-supply-review

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/corsair-cx650m-psu,4770.html

 

There's another thing that I need to take into consideration and that's customer support. I'm in India and if a buy an expensive psu and it fails, how easy is it going to be for me to get an RMA? I think that these companies don't really take the Indian PC market very seriously so I feel like I'm taking a risk anyway and on top of that I've read horrible 1 star reviews for each of these psus (even the more expensive ones) on Amazon etc.

 

Thanks for the replies, everyone!

[--SID--]

1 hour ago, virtualninja78 said:

Do I really need to spend that much on a psu given that I won't be doing any overclocking and that I don't need 650 watts of power either. So I would like to know if CX650m and pylon 650w can get the job done because both of these seem to have good reviews on Tom's hardware (and are cheaper):

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/xpg-pylon-650w-power-supply-review

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/corsair-cx650m-psu,4770.html

Why the CX650M or Pylon when the Silverstone Viva Gold is a better choice for the same price!

 

But when I spend a 1000 bucks on a GPU I don't care to spend 40 bucks extra for a lot better quality, aka XPG Core Reactor.

[Juular]

2 hours ago, virtualninja78 said:

Which ones are you referring to here?

All three i've recommended, Corsair RM, XPG Core Reactor and Silverstone VIVA Gold. There are also a few other such designs in your list, but they're just not as appealing price-wise.

PS: Well, as --SID-- have said, there's also Antec Neo Eco, but only as long as it's a specific model, this one, not -Zen, not -G-M, not anything with a different label, exactly this. Because Antec has recently added a bunch of random models in their lineup with near-identical model names, with zero reviews on any of them, they're becoming a EVGA in a sense that navigating their product stack today is like a trying to cross a minefield.

[--SID--]

2 hours ago, virtualninja78 said:

I've read horrible 1 star reviews for each of these psus (even the more expensive ones) on Amazon etc.

Don't take it seriously. Most of them are user failures.

[virtualninja78]

4 hours ago, --SID-- said:

But when I spend a 1000 bucks on a GPU I don't care to spend 40 bucks extra for a lot better quality, aka XPG Core Reactor.

I'm not going to buy a GPU right now, $1000 for a GPU that is supposed to cost $400 is just absurd. I will add a GPU later when the prices become more reasonable, hopefully! But I get your point.

3 hours ago, Juular said:

there's also Antec Neo Eco, but only as long as it's a specific model, this one, not -Zen, not -G-M, not anything with a different label, exactly this.

It is labelled as Neo eco 650 GM so it's definitely not the one you're talking about.

 

I think I'll just buy the XPG Core reactor.

 

Thanks once again.

[Guest]

On 11/29/2021 at 3:33 AM, mariushm said:

Yes, I know a lot about coilwhine.  And the topology of a power supply doesn't define how much coilwhine a power supply would produce.

Oh my... It most certainly does.  

[Elisis]

On 11/29/2021 at 10:33 PM, mariushm said:

And the topology of a power supply doesn't define how much coilwhine a power supply would produce.

The fuck are you talking about? Do you not know what the ramifications of hard/soft switching are? Do you not know what topology refers to? The extent to which your magnetics whine is most assuredly dependent on your conversion topology, and even secondary if you're unlucky. 

 

On 11/29/2021 at 10:33 PM, mariushm said:

coil whine is often caused by interaction of multiple dc-dc converters in the power supply.

What? Are you talking about resonance? This is very much a falsehood.

 

On 11/29/2021 at 10:33 PM, mariushm said:

The crossload tests are NOT realistic and are not supposed to fault a power supply,

Every modern system throws a ton of power on 12v and little on minors. Thus, crossloads are definitely perceived. If you had any kind of electrical engineering knowledge you'd know that regulating multiple rails on the same inductor will cause a change in one rail if the load is altered on the other rail. This is inescapable.

 

 

[Gamer Guy]

On 11/29/2021 at 3:16 PM, --SID-- said:

XPG Core Reactor is the best. With expensive hardware like a Ryzen 5800X and RTX 3060 Ti you don't want nothing else than a high-end PSU.

 

Budget option is the Silverstone Viva Gold.

 

Corsair CV650, CX650M and XPG Pylon are a no go because of the double forward topology.

Cooler Master MWE V2 Bronze is low quality. Asus TUF too.

Antec Neo Eco Gold is available in 2 flavours, yellow and green. Which one is it?

The Deepcool has issues with <100v poweroutlets.

Cooler Master MWE Gold is okayish.

 

This is it:

1. Core Reactor

2. MWE Gold

3. Viva Gold (and probably Neo Eco Gold if it's has a yellow label)

Is this what you mean by Gold label on the Antec Neo Eco? https://www.antec.com/product/power/neg650-modular

[Juular]

On 1/11/2022 at 8:54 PM, Gamer Guy said:

Is this what you mean by Gold label on the Antec Neo Eco? https://www.antec.com/product/power/neg650-modular

No. There are actually four versions of Antec Neo Eco Gold :

- The OG one, just Antec Neo Eco Gold - essentially a rebrand of Seasonic Focus GM, seems to be discontinued now

- Neo Eco Gold Zen - made by Andyson, might be decent but there are almost no proper reviews

- Neo Eco Gold green-label - seems to be a China/SEA-only product, made by Helly, zero reviews and appears to be an essentially beta test of the next version ...

- Neo Eco Gold M or Modular - seems to be very similar or identical to the green-label one. Seasonic sells something very similar under their own label as G12 so that's probably why Antec uses it too. The OEM's - Helly's consumer brand is '1st Player' and they sell it as 1st Player Steampunk and Armour (it isn't clear what are differences). Aris has reviewed a recent and an older versions of these but i wouldn't trust them for anything but a budget build really. Especially since Antec's and Seasonic's versions may be different.

[jrivers010]

On 11/29/2021 at 1:46 AM, --SID-- said:

Corsair CV650, CX650M and XPG Pylon are a no go because of the double forward topology.

 

How do i learn/find out about this kind of stuff?

[Juular]

4 hours ago, jrivers010 said:

How do i learn/find out about this kind of stuff?

Reviews.

[Imbadatnames]

4 hours ago, jrivers010 said:

How do i learn/find out about this kind of stuff?

Just read reviews. Don’t bother with the topology stuff is just elitist nonsense, there’s more than one way to skin a cat. Especially when the Sid dude is classing a 3060Ti as hardware than needs a great PSU, sure the cards expensive now because of the market but it’s a mid tier GPU that draws 200W. A solid 650W unit would be more than enough. Personally the PSUs I’ve used have been LLC units not DFT but that’s because I’ve bought efficient units with long warranties from EVGA (G2 650W made by Superflower and SFX GM650W from FSP). Though I would more that my first GM unit did come DOA so no matter what tech is in the unit nothing is perfect. 

[Gamer Guy]

On 11/29/2021 at 4:18 PM, Juular said:

On 11/29/2021 at 3:32 PM, mariushm said:

Silverstone Viva ... From pictures, it doesn't look like Sirtec/HighPower design and heatsinks are more like on Andyson units.

It looks like this; https://www.techpowerup.com/review/chieftec-polaris-psu-750-w/3.html, because it is. We have that unit on hands, no review yet tho.

Does the VIVA Gold been reviewed yet? Is it safe to buy (3 years warranty)?