RAM overclocking - more voltage needed?

[BetteBalterZen]

Hi guys

I guess I only have 1 question actually but feel free to speak your mind

 

Right, so, I'm totally new to RAM overclocking, in terms of manual adjusting settings. I have used XMP for years. But after learning that my RAM uses the Samsung B-Die, I was wondering if I could push my RAM kit further than it's normal 3600MHz XMP speeds.

 

So after I have enabled XMP, I then increased the applied 3600MHz (XMP speed) to 3700MHz, then I ran HCI MemTest Pro to around 100% coverage and no errors was dectected. Yes I know that 400% coverage is recommended if you wanna be (kinda) 100% sure about stability but ey, I'd take a random bluescreen someday than to wait for hours. I know that 3600MHz is stable, so I'll just dile it back, if a BSOD happens. I then tried increasing the MHz to 3800MHz but this resulted in my PC no-POST boot looping. 

I did not increase the applied 1.35 voltage from the XMP profile. Would increasing the voltage help with this no-POST boot loop? Or does this no-POST boot loop mean my CPU can't handle the speeds? Maybe this is hard to answer... If it would make sense to try and increase the voltage, which exact voltage do I have to increase? What is it called? I did kinda rush through it last night, so I might have missed it when I was in the BIOS - was just looking for 1.35V...

Thanks, and hope everyone had a good weekend! 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

I would have prob just shoved volt to 1.5 or 1.7 from the get go and see how fast the ram will clock, im guessing the b die ram is in the pc on your sig, and 4x8 will ruin any sort of ocability so rip

 

prob just raise imc volt and i think raising system agent helps abit aswell, then just run 3600-4000 14-14-14 because if you cant clock high might aswell have tight timings

[BetteBalterZen]

54 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

I would have prob just shoved volt to 1.5 or 1.7 from the get go and see how fast the ram will clock, im guessing the b die ram is in the pc on your sig, and 4x8 will ruin any sort of ocability so rip

 

prob just raise imc volt and i think raising system agent helps abit aswell, then just run 3600-4000 14-14-14 because if you cant clock high might aswell have tight timings

I have read that 1.5 is absolute max, and anything higher is NOT recommended, so I only feel comfortable with 1.4V at max. But yes, I could just try increasing it to 1.4V and see how it goes. 

And yes, hehe, 4 sticks of RAM does not help when it comes to OC...  

Yes, I could increase the IMC voltage but I won't do that because my CPU is probably one of the worst 8700K to ever exist - it runs freakin hot. I had to give it a custom IHS and liquid metal to get temps under control.  

[Stahlmann]

I can't say for sure how memory voltage called in your BIOS, but you can safely go up to 1.45V in everyday useage. The only way to know if it helps is to try. But 1.7V is far over the "safe" edge. At least for everyday use.

[BetteBalterZen]

17 minutes ago, Stahlmann said:

I can't say for sure how memory voltage called in your BIOS, but you can safely go up to 1.45V in everyday useage. The only way to know if it helps is to try. But 1.7V is far over the "safe" edge. At least for everyday use.

Cool, thank you Stahlmann. At the 1.35V my RAM peaked around 51c after hitting 100% coverage in the HCI MemTest Pro test. So in terms of thermals, I guess I could easily increase the voltage without worrrying about temps. 

[Stahlmann]

Just now, BetteBalterZen said:

Cool, thank you Stahlmann. At the 1.35V my RAM peaked around 51c after hitting 100% coverage in the HCI MemTest Pro test. So in terms of thermals, I guess I could easily increase the voltage without worrrying about temps. 

I personally never checked temps but i ran my memory at 1.45V for about 2 years before upgrading to another kit.

[BetteBalterZen]

Just now, Stahlmann said:

I personally never checked temps but i ran my memory at 1.45V for about 2 years before upgrading to another kit.

Copy that

So to be clear; your guess is that increasing the RAM voltage, that could fix the no-POST issue? 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

1 hour ago, BetteBalterZen said:

so I only feel comfortable with 1.4V at max

any less than 1.5v is just wasted performance, ive seen buildzoid run 1.97v on i think it was a b die from team, using my rule of thumb the absolute max safe is 1.7v cause ddr4 deathzone seems to be ~2v, ive heard of kits being pushed to 1.65v at stock although ive only seen tridentz royal 5333 run 1.6v stock, so 1.4v is childs play.  Id suggest looking at buildzoid vids if you wanna properly overclock those rams, also buildzoid isnt scared of volts so dont follow along if he does 1.7v+ or something cause thatll surely degrade your rams, also above 1.75v he said on the extreme ocing team b die rams vid that over 1.75v will lead to bsoding on b dies with more than 8gb iirc

 

Also b dies like voltage so no voltage = rip ram overclockability so better off with something that doesnt need voltage to scale well so dont even think about 4000 cl14 cause yea you are only gonna get 3800 cl16 working on 1.4v, esp when you have 4x8 which stresses the crap out of the poor imc

 

Highest ive run on ddr2 is only 2.7v when i was f ing aroud with my extreem dark rams, maybe ill look at 2.9v later cause 2.9v is deathzone for ddr2, obv id be somewhat hesitant running my components at deathzone but i know they are gonna survive anyways, just gotta make sure i dont bump the volt too high and actually kill them

 

[BetteBalterZen]

41 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

any less than 1.5v is just wasted performance, ive seen buildzoid run 1.97v on i think it was a b die from team, using my rule of thumb the absolute max safe is 1.7v cause ddr4 deathzone seems to be ~2v, ive heard of kits being pushed to 1.65v at stock although ive only seen tridentz royal 5333 run 1.6v stock, so 1.4v is childs play.  Id suggest looking at buildzoid vids if you wanna properly overclock those rams, also buildzoid isnt scared of volts so dont follow along if he does 1.7v+ or something cause thatll surely degrade your rams, also above 1.75v he said on the extreme ocing team b die rams vid that over 1.75v will lead to bsoding on b dies with more than 8gb iirc

 

Also b dies like voltage so no voltage = rip ram overclockability so better off with something that doesnt need voltage to scale well so dont even think about 4000 cl14 cause yea you are only gonna get 3800 cl16 working on 1.4v, esp when you have 4x8 which stresses the crap out of the poor imc

 

Highest ive run on ddr2 is only 2.7v when i was f ing aroud with my extreem dark rams, maybe ill look at 2.9v later cause 2.9v is deathzone for ddr2, obv id be somewhat hesitant running my components at deathzone but i know they are gonna survive anyways, just gotta make sure i dont bump the volt too high and actually kill them

 

Good infos all around, thank you

Since I don't have ANY experience with RAM overclocking, and don't feel like buying a new set of pretty expensive RAM, I think I'll settle for 3700, 16, 16, 16, 36 @1.35V for now. 

Afterall, 3700 at 16, 16, 16, 36 is pretty strong as far as I've seen in benchmarks and so on, and I do like thought about "only" running 1.35V while having pretty strong RAM performance.

[Somerandomtechyboi]

2 hours ago, BetteBalterZen said:

Since I don't have ANY experience with RAM overclocking, and don't feel like buying a new set of pretty expensive RAM, I think I'll settle for 3700, 16, 16, 16, 36 @1.35V for now. 

Afterall, 3700 at 16, 16, 16, 36 is pretty strong as far as I've seen in benchmarks and so on, and I do like thought about "only" running 1.35V while having pretty strong RAM performance.

Spoiler

Silently cringes in wasted performance

 

Its not even that dangerous to push it to 1.5v, generally if you want a safe volt just get deathzone -0.4v, personally im fine with absolute max which is -0.3v from deathzone but i like having the extra performance

 

If you wanna have an idea of a max safe volt then just find the highest volt a ram kit comes stock from the factory like the aformentioned tridentz royal 5333 that runs 1.6v, if they apply those voltages from the factory then it should be completely safe, afterall it is coincidentally 0.4v under deathzone which is ~2v on ddr4, although i think youll have more gain if you raise imc volt cause 4x8 does stress the imc alot

[BetteBalterZen]

1 minute ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Silently cringes in wasted performance

 

Its not even that dangerous to push it to 1.5v, generally if you want a safe volt just get deathzone -0.4v, personally im fine with absolute max which is -0.3v from deathzone but i like having the extra performance

 

If you wanna have an idea of a max safe volt then just find the highest volt a ram kit comes stock from the factory like the aformentioned tridentz royal 5333 that runs 1.6v, if they apply those voltages from the factory then it should be completely safe, afterall it is coincidentally 0.4v under deathzone which is ~2v on ddr4, although i think youll have more gain if you raise imc volt cause 4x8 does stress the imc alot

Right right, I see. Hmm, might try increasing the voltage in the future and give it 3800+ MHz and see

And yeah I hear you but I will not increase IMC voltage, because my CPU is f*cked when it comes to heat, so yeah haha

[Somerandomtechyboi]

Just now, BetteBalterZen said:

And yeah I hear you but I will not increase IMC voltage, because my CPU is f*cked when it comes to heat, so yeah haha

Ooof

 

Well you could always just undervolt it but 4.7 on an 8700k is prob not even in the diminishing returns zone, although if its under 90c then its totally fine

 

I dont really get scared by high volts or temps in a short period so if my e8400 just starts shooting past 100c on a 4.5ghz overclock attempt then ill just turn off prime95 aka my stress test tool

 

although im on a platform where shoving 2.05v is not gonna instakill your cpu and they are cheap aswell so yea makes sense why i have basically no fear towards high temps or volts in a short period, and i define high temps as 100c+ and high volts as 2v so now do you see why the hell i have basically no hesitation to just shove volt to absolute max safe according to my rule of thumb or straight to deathzone given the cooling?

[BetteBalterZen]

13 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Ooof

 

Well you could always just undervolt it but 4.7 on an 8700k is prob not even in the diminishing returns zone, although if its under 90c then its totally fine

 

I dont really get scared by high volts or temps in a short period so if my e8400 just starts shooting past 100c on a 4.5ghz overclock attempt then ill just turn off prime95 aka my stress test tool

 

although im on a platform where shoving 2.05v is not gonna instakill your cpu and they are cheap aswell so yea makes sense why i have basically no fear towards high temps or volts in a short period, and i define high temps as 100c+ and high volts as 2v so now do you see why the hell i have basically no hesitation to just shove volt to absolute max safe according to my rule of thumb or straight to deathzone given the cooling?

I totally understand where you come from

Even though I know that anything under Tj Max is basically, in theory, wasted performance - haha - I do like to keep all temps under 80s

Currently my CPU stays between 72 and 75c on peaks during heavy gaming sessions with 4.7GHz all core with minus 0.95mV offset for undervolt. Sometimes CPU drops to 4.4 / 4.5GHz during heavy gaming loads but that's alright. I have experimented with 5GHz overclocks and it does give a noticable uplift in 1% lows but I honestly don't think it's worth it compared to how unstable my CPU is, and today it won't be possible with my 4x8GB RAM kit hehe. 

When it comes to my 8700K, I'm glad with where it is today. It performs well enough and will do fine for 1-2 years more.  

[Somerandomtechyboi]

1 hour ago, BetteBalterZen said:

When it comes to my 8700K, I'm glad with where it is today. It performs well enough and will do fine for 1-2 years more.  

Welp atleast its efficient with an undervolt, next 2 years better bump that clockspeed to 5.3 and that volt to 1.4 cause im pretty sure its gonna struggle xD

 

Still tho you havent even reached destabilizing temp which is ~85c, heck if you are running below 1.3v youll be fine upto 105c tbh, imc will prob not raise temps that much anyways so dont worry about that and just run your rams faster, ram oc is pretty much teh only way to oc without shooting power bills through the roof, unless you shove a tec cooler on it and try subzero

[BetteBalterZen]

5 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Welp atleast its efficient with an undervolt, next 2 years better bump that clockspeed to 5.3 and that volt to 1.4 cause im pretty sure its gonna struggle xD

 

Still tho you havent even reached destabilizing temp which is ~85c, heck if you are running below 1.3v youll be fine upto 105c tbh, imc will prob not raise temps that much anyways so dont worry about that and just run your rams faster, ram oc is pretty much teh only way to oc without shooting power bills through the roof, unless you shove a tec cooler on it and try subzero

Yeah haha you might be right... It's probably going to struggle but ey, then it makes sense to upgrade

With the -0.095mV offset, the CPU still reaches 1.4V VCORE peaks. I have tried undervolting using manuel VCORE but then it runs extremely unstable and BSOD often. This undervolt I'm using now, it has been stable ever since I set it up and it does lower my peak temps around 5-8c, so I've been pretty satisfied by it. 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

18 minutes ago, BetteBalterZen said:

With the -0.095mV offset, the CPU still reaches 1.4V VCORE peaks. I have tried undervolting using manuel VCORE but then it runs extremely unstable and BSOD often.

All core static freq or do you have it boosting to higher freq on lighter loads?

[DarkSmith2]

7 hours ago, BetteBalterZen said:

Hi guys

I guess I only have 1 question actually but feel free to speak your mind

 

Right, so, I'm totally new to RAM overclocking, in terms of manual adjusting settings. I have used XMP for years. But after learning that my RAM uses the Samsung B-Die, I was wondering if I could push my RAM kit further than it's normal 3600MHz XMP speeds.

 

So after I have enabled XMP, I then increased the applied 3600MHz (XMP speed) to 3700MHz, then I ran HCI MemTest Pro to around 100% coverage and no errors was dectected. Yes I know that 400% coverage is recommended if you wanna be (kinda) 100% sure about stability but ey, I'd take a random bluescreen someday than to wait for hours. I know that 3600MHz is stable, so I'll just dile it back, if a BSOD happens. I then tried increasing the MHz to 3800MHz but this resulted in my PC no-POST boot looping. 

I did not increase the applied 1.35 voltage from the XMP profile. Would increasing the voltage help with this no-POST boot loop? Or does this no-POST boot loop mean my CPU can't handle the speeds? Maybe this is hard to answer... If it would make sense to try and increase the voltage, which exact voltage do I have to increase? What is it called? I did kinda rush through it last night, so I might have missed it when I was in the BIOS - was just looking for 1.35V...

Thanks, and hope everyone had a good weekend! 

there is a RAM prediction sheet. Works as followed. Assuming XMP is stable scaling is this:
(xmp ns / desired ns) * xmp voltage = dram voltage required

to run 3600cl16 1.35v XMP at 3700cl16 example

(16/1800*1000)/(16/1850*1000)*1.35= 

8.88/8.64*1.35 = 1.386v

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Xz_rQgNFQF3Dm0yHJBzldVkal5jmfI9Ug9tnpjky5Bc/edit#gid=0

 

But usually there is headroom, so you eventually wont need that much voltage.
 

[BetteBalterZen]

1 hour ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

All core static freq or do you have it boosting to higher freq on lighter loads?

The standard turbo at 4.7GHz applies to all cores, not only 1. So my 8700K also idle at low MHz and low voltage, and I want this for low idle power consumption

[BetteBalterZen]

1 hour ago, DarkSmith2 said:

there is a RAM prediction sheet. Works as followed. Assuming XMP is stable scaling is this:
(xmp ns / desired ns) * xmp voltage = dram voltage required

to run 3600cl16 1.35v XMP at 3700cl16 example

(16/1800*1000)/(16/1850*1000)*1.35= 

8.88/8.64*1.35 = 1.386v

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Xz_rQgNFQF3Dm0yHJBzldVkal5jmfI9Ug9tnpjky5Bc/edit#gid=0

 

But usually there is headroom, so you eventually wont need that much voltage.
 

Nice Google sheet - a bit overwhelming haha 

 

Please correct me if I am wrong, but are you saying that I most likely only will need fx 1.390/1.395V for 3800? 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

50 minutes ago, BetteBalterZen said:

The standard turbo at 4.7GHz applies to all cores, not only 1. So my 8700K also idle at low MHz and low voltage, and I want this for low idle power consumption

Personally id just have it run completely static just to be optimal for heavy workloads and consume less power on heavy workloads, or just be outright faster

[DarkSmith2]

1 hour ago, BetteBalterZen said:

Please correct me if I am wrong, but are you saying that I most likely only will need fx 1.390/1.395V for 3800? 

3600 cl16 = 1.35
so to run 3800 cl16 you would theoretical only need:

8.88/8.42*1.35v = ~1.42v dram voltage based on the sheet.

 

Also would probably need 1.15-1.2v vccio/sa voltages. And your biggest problem might be your Board, it has very little RAM OC capabilities. So 3800MT/s might be the highest you can actually get out of it, some managed 4000MT/s though.

 

EDIT: Oh i just saw you have 4x8GB so you can probably go higher than 4000MT/s because its T-Topology.

[BetteBalterZen]

8 minutes ago, DarkSmith2 said:

3600 cl16 = 1.35
so to run 3800 cl16 you would theoretical only need:

8.88/8.42*1.35v = ~1.42v dram voltage based on the sheet.

 

Also would probably need 1.15-1.2v vccio/sa voltages. And your biggest problem might be your Board, it has very little RAM OC capabilities. So 3800MT/s might be the highest you can actually get out of it, some managed 4000MT/s though.

 

EDIT: Oh i just saw you have 4x8GB so you can probably go higher than 4000MT/s because its T-Topology.

Thank you for explaining everything

[BetteBalterZen]

38 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Personally id just have it run completely static just to be optimal for heavy workloads and consume less power on heavy workloads, or just be outright faster

Yeah I understand... But I have this thing with leaving my computers turned on, when I have to do a thing or two for a couple of hours for example, so I do prefer the lower idle power consumption

[DarkSmith2]

1 minute ago, BetteBalterZen said:

Thank you for explaining everything

i probably would just try 4000cl 17-17-17-37 1.4v dram 1.2-1.25 vccio and sa and see if it boots.

[BetteBalterZen]

12 hours ago, DarkSmith2 said:

i probably would just try 4000cl 17-17-17-37 1.4v dram 1.2-1.25 vccio and sa and see if it boots.

Tomorrow I will move in to my new apartment, when I have properly landed and so on, I will experiment more with my RAM - then I will try 4000MHz CL17-17-17-37, 1.4V, 1.2-1.25 VCCIO. 

And thank you for suggesting a speed, timing and voltage to try at the same time  This is easy for me to follow hehe.