How Do You Keep Track Of Electricity Cost?

[Error 504]

is there any way to keep track of the electricity used in mining? for taxation purposes....

any software or some kind of website?

 

thanks.

 

[Electronics Wizardy]

How much power you pulling? How many amps? 

 

If your pulling a lot Id get a seperate hookup for 2 power bills.

 

There are a lot of wall meters that log power usage. Then multiple by the rate(Can get fun with how it varies based off time and usage though).

[shoutingsteve]

This is called a killawatt.  I have two that I use for checking voltage when I plug into an unknown power source.  Pressing the purple button will cause it to start tracking you kilowatts per hour (which is the same unit your power company bills you in).

https://www.amazon.com/P3-International-P4400-VP-Electricity-Measures/dp/B01MR6YK0C/ref=sr_1_6?crid=JKR7AGAMVSVE&dchild=1&keywords=killawatt&qid=1635904583&sprefix=killawatt%2Caps%2C83&sr=8-6

[tikker]

A kill-a-watt on the socket if you want the entire PC. My PC is on most of the day anyway, so I just take the average GPU power consumption Afterburner reports and extrapolate with that, becuase the GPU idling or not is the biggest difference.

 

If you are looking for a formula, just open up an Excel sheet and evaluate <power consumption in kW> * <$ per kWh> * <hours mined>. There are functions that calculate how much time has passed between dates.

[Error 504]

7 hours ago, tikker said:

A kill-a-watt on the socket if you want the entire PC. My PC is on most of the day anyway, so I just take the average GPU power consumption Afterburner reports and extrapolate with that, becuase the GPU idling or not is the biggest difference.

 

If you are looking for a formula, just open up an Excel sheet and evaluate <power consumption in kW> * <$ per kWh> * <hours mined>. There are functions that calculate how much time has passed between dates.

how about asic machines? the gadget says 120v max. but asic's power is double that. 

[tikker]

29 minutes ago, Error 504 said:

how about asic machines? the gadget says 120v max. but asic's power is double that. 

Same thing, hook up a kill-a-watt or simply read it's power consumption from the sticker/label/manual. Power (W) = voltage (V) * current (A).  Judging from your previous thread, an S19J Pro uses 3063 W according to Bitmain. That'll cost you 3.063 kW * <$ per kWh> * 24 h per day, per machine.

[shoutingsteve]

On 11/3/2021 at 1:14 PM, Error 504 said:

how about asic machines? the gadget says 120v max. but asic's power is double that. 

Do you already own this piece of hardware?  If so, what plug style does it have?  

[Error 504]

5 hours ago, shoutingsteve said:

Do you already own this piece of hardware?  If so, what plug style does it have?  

actually i don't know what it looks like. the machines will be here in about a week. i'll take pictures and let you know then.

[Error 504]

On 11/3/2021 at 10:42 AM, tikker said:

Same thing, hook up a kill-a-watt or simply read it's power consumption from the sticker/label/manual. Power (W) = voltage (V) * current (A).  Judging from your previous thread, an S19J Pro uses 3063 W according to Bitmain. That'll cost you 3.063 kW * <$ per kWh> * 24 h per day, per machine.

so for tax purposes, can i just use these numbers as an acceptable proof?

[shoutingsteve]

2 hours ago, Error 504 said:

actually i don't know what it looks like. the machines will be here in about a week. i'll take pictures and let you know then.

Oh my... you might have a real challenge  ahead of you.  Do you know how to hook up 240 voltage?  You will need to hire an electrician.  I am assuming you are doing this in your house and not in a commercial building?  Cause if you have 120/208 commercial electrical service... you REALLY will have a ten thousand dollar problem.

[Error 504]

2 hours ago, shoutingsteve said:

Oh my... you might have a real challenge  ahead of you.  Do you know how to hook up 240 voltage?  You will need to hire an electrician.  I am assuming you are doing this in your house and not in a commercial building?  Cause if you have 120/208 commercial electrical service... you REALLY will have a ten thousand dollar problem.

ya, i built this space as a secondary rental suite. it has its own meter and panel. 200amp solely for the suite. i left the around panel open, so i can easier put in extra breakers and run new wires.

[shoutingsteve]

9 hours ago, Error 504 said:

ya, i built this space as a secondary rental suite. it has its own meter and panel. 200amp solely for the suite. i left the around panel open, so i can easier put in extra breakers and run new wires.

Oh, this is good.  You seem to know enough to understand what needs to be done.  In that case I would recommend either of two options:  20 amp breakers for each or a single 40 amp breaker per pair where you switch the hot leg orientation on the second outlet.  I would do the second one, but I am a psychopath.  You can also buy what is called a"whole house monitor" which clamps onto the legs of the breaker panel since you have that exposed currently.

[Error 504]

15 hours ago, shoutingsteve said:

Oh, this is good.  You seem to know enough to understand what needs to be done.  In that case I would recommend either of two options:  20 amp breakers for each or a single 40 amp breaker per pair where you switch the hot leg orientation on the second outlet.  I would do the second one, but I am a psychopath.  You can also buy what is called a"whole house monitor" which clamps onto the legs of the breaker panel since you have that exposed currently.

i usually use 20amp for microwave, and 40amp is usually for electric stove. i think even a big ass dryer is only 30amp...... i'm not very familiar with mining machines, so i'll have to read the manual and see.  i'll be using armoured cable just in case. i also have smoke detectors installed and a cc camera. i have a heat pump system, so i can use ac in summer to keep the temperature down.

 

it's a 1000sqf space. i could rent it out for about $2,000 a month, but if i could get the same amount of money with 2 machines HOPEFULLY, then i would choose 2 machines, build another small room with roxul and resilient channels with 5/8 drywall, and maybe i can use the rest of the space for something else, like a really cool gaming room.

 

if one small room is not enough, i'll build another room around the small room, framing 4 inches away from the small room walls and ceiling , making it into a double room with sound proofing materials.

[tikker]

On 11/5/2021 at 12:14 AM, Error 504 said:

so for tax purposes, can i just use these numbers as an acceptable proof?

Probably. You'd need to check your local tax laws or contact the tax office.

[Error 504]

7 hours ago, tikker said:

Probably. You'd need to check your local tax laws or contact the tax office.

funny how bitcoin started out being believed as anonymous, and safer than fiat money.

 

i guess it's probably still anonymous as long as you don't cash it out. i don't plan on doing any transaction on the dark web, so i guess i'll just have to keep waiting until starbucks or mcdonald's start accepting btc.

 

my bank savings is backed by the CDIC for up to $100,000 CAD.

btc on the other hand...........

 

the government can adjust interest rate and print money, which will affect the value of my bank savings. musk can send out a twit and the btc value could be halved within minutes.

 

pro's and con's buddy, pro's and con's.

 

but having said all that, i'm gonna hitch the ride while it's still profitable. if anything happens, at least i can still use these 2 machines as space heaters.

[tikker]

3 minutes ago, Error 504 said:

funny how bitcoin started out being believed as anonymous, and safer than fiat money.

 

i guess it's probably still anonymous as long as you don't cash it out. i don't plan on doing any transaction on the dark web, so i guess i'll just have to keep waiting until starbucks or mcdonald's start accepting btc.

It has always been pseudonymous and not anonymous. Everything is publicly available. The pseudonymous bit is just sending money from address X to address Y versus the regular bank transfer where I'd send money to account Z under the name of Error 504 coming from tikker. If someone knows you own that address you're just as much an open book. All the KYC measures have made it a lot harder to stay anonymous, but that is necessary to keep criminal activity on a low (which it is).

7 minutes ago, Error 504 said:

my bank savings is backed by the CDIC for up to $100,000 CAD.

btc on the other hand...........

the government can adjust interest rate and print money, which will affect the value of my bank savings. musk can send out a twit and the btc value could be halved within minutes.

Those are two different kinds of backing. The first is just the bank saying they'll cover up to $100,000 for you. The second you mention is the inherent value. BTC isn't backed by anything and its value set by supply and demand. Mind you that your $ isn't backed by anything either. $1 is worth $1 in taxes and that gives it its value and is why it is so tightly regulated to make sure it stays at that value.

 

If we want adoption we'll also need to stop considering 1 BTC as $60,000 but simply as 1 BTC. Problem being that the exchange rate will still be insane

 

[Error 504]

1 minute ago, tikker said:

It has always been pseudonymous and not anonymous. Everything is publicly available. The pseudonymous bit is just sending money from address X to address Y versus the regular bank transfer where I'd send money to account Z under the name of Error 504 coming from tikker. If someone knows you own that address you're just as much an open book. All the KYC measures have made it a lot harder to stay anonymous, but that is necessary to keep criminal activity on a low (which it is).

Those are two different kinds of backing. The first is just the bank saying they'll cover up to $100,000 for you. The second you mention is the inherent value. BTC isn't backed by anything and its value set by supply and demand. Mind you that your $ isn't backed by anything either. $1 is worth $1 in taxes and that gives it its value and is why it is so tightly regulated to make sure it stays at that value.

 

If we want adoption we'll also need to stop considering 1 BTC as $60,000 but simply as 1 BTC. Problem being that the exchange rate will still be insane

 

i'm still surprised how any government would let this thing run crazy like this. i really thought it would end when it hit $30k, and now the tempa bay mayor is accepting bitcoin, i mean, what the hell....

 

as a scam, it's too big to fail. can you imagine if crypto bubble burst? what would happen to those south american countries? the chinese company evergrande had a big impact on the global banking. imagine if a whole country like el salvador fell, what kind of impact would it have on the whole world.

[shoutingsteve]

On 11/6/2021 at 1:01 AM, Error 504 said:

i usually use 20amp for microwave, and 40amp is usually for electric stove. i think even a big ass dryer is only 30amp...... i'm not very familiar with mining machines, so i'll have to read the manual and see.  i'll be using armoured cable just in case

The 20 amp fora microwave is because it is only 120v on a single leg.  The other two are on 240v, so even though they are only 30 or 40 watts, that is 30 or 40 watts ate double the power.

Regarding tho armored cable (WC cable):  Why?  That is only to protect it from getting chewed up or hit by drywall screws and stuff.  Are you planning on running it outside the walls?  If so, consider conduit rather than MC cable.

[Error 504]

1 hour ago, shoutingsteve said:

The 20 amp fora microwave is because it is only 120v on a single leg.  The other two are on 240v, so even though they are only 30 or 40 watts, that is 30 or 40 watts ate double the power.

Regarding tho armored cable (WC cable):  Why?  That is only to protect it from getting chewed up or hit by drywall screws and stuff.  Are you planning on running it outside the walls?  If so, consider conduit rather than MC cable.

i'm just worried about the breaker not tripping before the wire catches fire, at least the fire will be inside the metal coil, and the burned wire should be able to short-circuit and trip the breaker. i'm thinking about 14 gauge wire, but 12 is probably safer.

 

i don't know, i just don't feel comfortable running something like this in a space where i will be sleeping next door. that's why i got smoke detector and cc camera.

 

also the mechanical room is right there, so i actually have been thinking about installing a sprinkler system just for that space. it's about $1,500 including a booster pump.

[shoutingsteve]

4 hours ago, Error 504 said:

i'm just worried about the breaker not tripping before the wire catches fire, at least the fire will be inside the metal coil, and the burned wire should be able to short-circuit and trip the breaker. i'm thinking about 14 gauge wire, but 12 is probably safer.

 

i don't know, i just don't feel comfortable running something like this in a space where i will be sleeping next door. that's why i got smoke detector and cc camera.

 

also the mechanical room is right there, so i actually have been thinking about installing a sprinkler system just for that space. it's about $1,500 including a booster pump.

If you do the single machine on a 2 pole breaker (20 amps like we discussed), you'll need to use 12 gauge wire.  If you do two machines on one 40 amp 2 pole breaker, you'll need 8 gauge wire (sorry, but max amps on 10 awg is 30 amps so you can't use it).  Under no circumstance should you put anything larger than a 15 amp breaker on 14 gauge wire.  MC cable is no safer from overheating than romex.

[Error 504]

2 hours ago, shoutingsteve said:

If you do the single machine on a 2 pole breaker (20 amps like we discussed), you'll need to use 12 gauge wire.  If you do two machines on one 40 amp 2 pole breaker, you'll need 8 gauge wire (sorry, but max amps on 10 awg is 30 amps so you can't use it).  Under no circumstance should you put anything larger than a 15 amp breaker on 14 gauge wire.  MC cable is no safer from overheating than romex.

ya fore sure 12 gauge wire.

 

it's just that stupid misconception about it's safer if the wire catches fire inside metal coil.

[shoutingsteve]

9 hours ago, Error 504 said:

ya fore sure 12 gauge wire.

 

it's just that stupid misconception about it's safer if the wire catches fire inside metal coil.

Electrical fires are mostly only due to two causes:  loose connections that lead to arching and overloaded wires that overheat because they are too thin.

[Error 504]

13 hours ago, jeniffergate said:

I've never kept track of my electricity costs until my bill was huge and I didn't know where all the money went for.

imagine the surprise i get every time i see my credit card statement.

[irishbeast]

Stupid question here but I live in the UK so tax laws are very different Why do you have to prove your energy consumption for tax purposes? I've never heard that before

 

I have a smart meter which looks similar to the device one the link. All it does it automatically submits readings to save me a job. Not a legal requirement though

[Error 504]

34 minutes ago, irishbeast said:

Stupid question here but I live in the UK so tax laws are very different Why do you have to prove your energy consumption for tax purposes? I've never heard that before

 

I have a smart meter which looks similar to the device one the link. All it does it automatically submits readings to save me a job. Not a legal requirement though

the coins i mine will be taxable income when and if i cash it out.

but i can use electricity bills as expenses to be deducted from my income.

 

it probably won't be much of a difference for me because i only have two asic machines.

but i'm sure it will make a big difference for those big people with a warehouse full of machines.