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Choosing a high-end PSU for Adler Lake

LukeAr
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Hi guys,

 

I am about to build an Adler Lake-based PC once the components become available; need help choosing a PSU. The build will be used for at least 7-8 years, so I am trying to pick a good PSU. Usage scenario: 90% home office, 10% CUDA-based AI processing (CPU and GPU intensive). The PC basically stays on for 12 hours a day, so decent low/idle load efficiency is a must.

 

I think I want a 850W unit. My "needs" are basically covered by the latest ATX specs: at least 70% efficiency at 2% load, maximum efficiency in desktop mode, very good efficiency under load. Must be very quiet in desktop mode (noise is acceptable under load), preferably no coil whine. The "wants" include Titanium certification and fast wake / support for alternative standby mode, but honestly I am not sure if the Z690 chipset will support that. The PSU will likely stay in this build, and it is unlikely to be repurposed later on. Planned upgrade: new GPU, probably a one-off. I don't know if I need semi-passive.

 

So far, Be quiet! Dark Power 12 850W seems like a good candidate. No semi-passive mode, otherwise fits the bill at around 219 EUR. Am I missing anything? Might there be some better alternatives?

  • Location: Germany (electricity cost: 35c per kW/h)
  • Budget (PSU only): up to 260 EUR
  • CPU: Intel i7-12700K (once released); no OC
  • Motherboard: Z690 (again, once released)
  • GPU: RTX 3060 Ti (no OC); likely will be swapped for a 4000-series RTX GPU when released.
  • NIC: Mellanox ConnectX-4 lx (10Gbe fiber)
  • SSD: 2x NVME, 4xSATA
  • Case: Fractal Design Define 7 PCGH
  • Ram: 4x16GB (most likely DDR4 3200)
  • Fans: 3x 140mm case fans, 2x140mm CPU fans

 

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2 minutes ago, LukeAr said:
  • CPU: Intel i7-12700K (once released); no OC
  • Motherboard: Z690 (again, once released)

dont bother with a z chipset or a k cpu, you are only wasting money with a k cpu and z chipset unless you plan on undervolting your cpu and tuning other stuff like ram

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Ok so ask again after release because from what we have seen in leaks is that these new intel cpu's can have stupidly high powerdraws.

 

As for a normal computer a simple msi mpg, enermax revolution d.f. or corsair rm(x) would do the trick easily. A 650w one would totally power a system like this with a 10900k but again unreleased hardware so I cannot give you correct advice.

 

My advice here is wait and DO NOT BUY AT LAUNCH you will be beta testing and have the most issues.

 

As for the rest of the build:

 

Cooler: Dunno probably a fuma 2 will do the trick since that can cool a oc'd 10900k or 5950x

Case: Skip that case. Really bad airflow. Yes it promotes silence but in reality these cases are louder because the fans need to run a lot faster to get enough cooling. Just get a good airflow case with a mesh front panel.

A simple case like a phanteks p400a with stock fan config is plenty and you don't need to add anything.

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15 minutes ago, jaslion said:

As for the rest of the build:

Cooler: Dunno probably a fuma 2 will do the trick since that can cool a oc'd 10900k or 5950x

Case: Skip that case. Really bad airflow. Yes it promotes silence but in reality these cases are louder because the fans need to run a lot faster to get enough cooling. Just get a good airflow case with a mesh front panel.

A simple case like a phanteks p400a with stock fan config is plenty and you don't need to add anything.

Can't say anything about the cooler yet. LGA 1700 compatibility is not a thing currently; most likely it'll be a large Scythe or an Alpenföhn unit with dual fans.

Case: in this build, silence in the "office PC" mode (which it runs 90% of the time) is much more important than airflow. My current PC is using the Define R6, and I am mostly happy with that case.

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2 minutes ago, LukeAr said:

Can't say anything about the cooler yet. LGA 1700 compatibility is not a thing currently; most likely it'll be a large Scythe or an Alpenföhn unit with dual fans.

Case: in this build, silence in the "office PC" mode (which it runs 90% of the time) is much more important than airflow. My current PC is using the Define R6, and I am mostly happy with that case.

Thing is silence is totally possible with a airflow case and in office mode you just won't notice the difference since gpu fans will be off and well a sycthe ninja 5 is already stupid quiet. BUT the moment you are in performance mode you won't end up with heat issues and have a quieter system which then also means a better performing one.

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30 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

dont bother with a z chipset or a k cpu, you are only wasting money with a k cpu and z chipset unless you plan on undervolting your cpu and tuning other stuff like ram

In one of my older builds I couldn't run the RAM chips at their rated speed because of chipset restrictions (if I recall correctly, it was an "H" chipset and an 8th generation i5 CPU). JEDEC timings only. Don't know if that changes in the 12th generation. AFAIK, the K CPU and the Z chipset basically allow bypassing the restrictive stock TDP timings, which is handy.

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26 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Ok so ask again after release because from what we have seen in leaks is that these new intel cpu's can have stupidly high powerdraws.

That's what I hear, and that's the main reason for an 850W PSU instead of a smaller one.

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5 minutes ago, LukeAr said:

In one of my older builds I couldn't run the RAM chips at their rated speed because of chipset restrictions (if I recall correctly, it was an "H" chipset and an 8th generation i5 CPU). JEDEC timings only. Don't know if that changes in the 12th generation. AFAIK, the K CPU and the Z chipset basically allow bypassing the restrictive stock TDP timings, which is handy.

Well if you go for a k cpu and z board make sure to do some undervolting for better temps and power efficiency so atleast it isnt a waste of money

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6 minutes ago, LukeAr said:

In one of my older builds I couldn't run the RAM chips at their rated speed because of chipset restrictions (if I recall correctly, it was an "H" chipset and an 8th generation i5 CPU). JEDEC timings only. Don't know if that changes in the 12th generation. AFAIK, the K CPU and the Z chipset basically allow bypassing the restrictive stock TDP timings, which is handy.

Not sure when Intel started allowing more ram flexibility on lower chipsets, but you can use ram beyond official support with B560 chipset. Power limit has never been enforced by Intel as far as I'm aware so if you had limitations that's a mobo manufacturer choice.

 

33 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Ok so ask again after release because from what we have seen in leaks is that these new intel cpu's can have stupidly high powerdraws.

The only high values I've seen claimed have been under overclocking conditions.

 

3 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Well if you go for a k cpu and z board make sure to do some undervolting for better temps and power efficiency so atleast it isnt a waste of money

Just no. That's only an invitation of instability. Z chipset mobos are generally still worth it when not overclocking as you get maximum configuration and also generally better build than lower chipset offerings. Of course you pay for that. Also the price difference between k and same non-k is not usually significant, with price differences only getting meaningful if you go much lower in the range.

TV Gaming system: Asus B560M-A, i7-11700k, Scythe Fuma 2, Corsair Vengeance Pro RGB 3200@21334 4x16GB, MSI 3070 Gaming Trio X, EVGA Supernova G2L 850W, Anidees Ai Crystal, Samsung 980 Pro 2TB, LG OLED55B9PLA 4k120 G-Sync Compatible
Streaming system: Asus X299 TUF mark 2, i9-7920X, Noctua D15, Corsair Vengeance LPX RGB 3000 8x8GB, Gigabyte 2070, Corsair HX1000i, GameMax Abyss, Samsung 970 Evo 500GB, Crucial BX500 1TB, BenQ XL2411 1080p144 + HP LP2475w 1200p60
Desktop Gaming system (to be retired): Asrock Z370 Pro4, i7-8086k, Noctua D15, G.Skill Ripjaws V 3200 2x8GB, Asus Strix 1080 Ti, NZXT E850 PSU, Cooler Master MasterBox 5, Optane 900p 280GB, Crucial MX200 1TB, Sandisk 960GB, Acer Predator XB241YU 1440p144 G-sync

Former Main system (to be retired): Asus Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700k, Noctua D14, G.Skill Ripjaws 4 3333@2133 4x4GB, GTX 1650, Corsair HX750i, In Win 303 NVIDIA, Samsung SM951 512GB, WD Blue 1TB, Acer RT280k 4k60 FreeSync [link]
Gaming laptop: Lenovo Legion, 5800H, DDR4 3200C22 2x8GB, RTX 3070, 512 GB SSD, 165 Hz IPS panel


 

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If you're concerned about power efficiency / power consumption, I'd suggest sticking to Ryzen cpus. 

 

As an idea, you get around 140-160 watts (anandtech review) of power consumption on a 5950x (16 core cpu), while the Alder Lake processors are rumored to go above 200-250 watts.

Alder Lake S peaked at 255 watts, according to this article : https://wccftech.com/alleged-intel-alder-lake-s-desktop-cpu-runs-hot-93c-power-consumption-over-250w/

 

In addition to the cpu power consumption, you're also going to pay the early adopter tax  with the DDR5 memory that's probably gonna be power hungry and hot, AND you're gonna pay with instability and bugs and glitches due to the different task scheduler that has to move threads between power cores and those lightweight cores (the 12700k has 8 performance cores and 4 lightweight cores and 125w TDP) ... so something's bound to have issues with that.  See rumors about DRM software having issues with these cpus with mix of cores. 

 

The Z series motherboards will have a higher power consumption, same as x570 motherboards consume 5-10w more due to the pci-e 4.0 controller in the chipset, compared to B550 chipset. 

 

Oh yeah ... and I see you list 32 GB of DDR4 3200 Mhz ... I think the Alder Lake cpus will run on DDR5 only, so you're probably gonna have DDR5 4800 or something like that, and the smallest will most likely be a kit of 2 x 16 GB sticks.

 

Anyway... allocate around 250-300w for CPU if you go with Intel, allocate 300w for video card if you go for anything less than a 3080, 400w for 3080 and higher ... so go with at least 650w, ideally 850w

 

Don't waste your money with titanium efficiency, GOLD is enough. The power consumption at idle is not that big of a deal, between gold and titanium you'd probably save less than 1-2$ a month in idle electricity, which you could save by going with a cheaper power supply in the first place. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, mariushm said:

Don't waste your money with titanium efficiency, GOLD is enough. The power consumption at idle is not that big of a deal, between gold and titanium you'd probably save less than 1-2$ a month in idle electricity, which you could save by going with a cheaper power supply in the first place.

One thing that I had mentioned, electricity is not cheap here at 35 cents per kW/h. One thing I forgot to mention is that, due to the pandemic situation and home office requirements, my employer subsidizes 50% of the cost of the hardware up to a certain amount, but not electricity costs. The restrictions are not expected to last for much longer, so I am pretty much forced to upgrade before the end of the year.

 

Which brings us back to the topic of high-end PSU's.

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55 minutes ago, LukeAr said:

One thing that I had mentioned, electricity is not cheap here at 35 cents per kW/h. One thing I forgot to mention is that, due to the pandemic situation and home office requirements, my employer subsidizes 50% of the cost of the hardware up to a certain amount, but not electricity costs. The restrictions are not expected to last for much longer, so I am pretty much forced to upgrade before the end of the year.

 

Which brings us back to the topic of high-end PSU's.

Let's say your computer will idle at 65w  (10% of a 650w psu) and you leave it running at 65w for 8h a day (maybe over night, instead of turning it off) 

 

Say the gold efficiency psu is 85% efficient at 65w , that means those 65w are 85% of total power consumed by psu. So psu will consume 65*100/85 = 76.5w 

Say the titanium efficiency psu is 90% efficient at 65w, that makes it consume 65*90/100 = 72.2w 

 

So you're saving 76.5-72.2 = 4.3w per hour. 

 

There's 31 days in a month, so 31 days x 8 hours of idle time = 248 hours ... so in a month, you saved 248 hours x 4.3w = 1066.4 or 1.066 kWh

 

Even if you leave the PC 24/7 consuming 65w, the difference between the two would be around 1 euro a month

 

Congratulations, you saved 1.066 x 0.35 = a whopping 0.37 euro or dollar or whatever on your power bill. 

 

Now going on pc part picker germany, for gold efficiency you have evga gq at 73 euro,  or you have Corsair RMx (2018) at 90 euro. 

 

Decent 80 plus platinum start at 110 euro and cheapest titanium start at 180 euro  

 

So 110 for platinum, or get gold and put the 20 euro difference on your power bill - that's 20 months worth of 24/7 idling or 60 months of 8h a day idling at 65w 

Not even worth calculating for titanium efficiency. 

 

Even if you're super pesimist and say the gold psu is only 80% efficient at 65w (most gold efficiency psus are 85%+ at 65w), while the other is 95% efficient at 65w (not realistic), you're looking at 65 x 100 / 80 = 81.25w vs 65* 100/ 95 = 68.5w  ... a difference of 12.75w an hour. 

 

You'd need to run the computer at 65w for 1000 / 12.75 = ~ 79 hours in order to pay 1 kWh extra on your power bill by using your poor efficiency psu..

 

At the sweetspot where you'd actually use the computer, playing games, rendering, encoding etc  both gold and titanium will be very close ... you're looking at something in the 94% efficiency for gold at around 400w , versus around 97% efficiency for titanium. 

 

If your employer subsidizes the computer, get a 16 core ryzen, get 32 gb of decent ddr4, maybe go up from 3060 to a 3070 or equivalent from amd... but you really don't need more than gold efficiency (something HIGH QUALITY in the gold efficiency range)

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