Let's talk honestly about being honest...

[Dedayog]

So here on LTT, we get chastised and put into time-outs for being honest.  We have some posters that prefer not to use grammar, punctuation.  We have some that just want to brag about their wallet.  We have some that just pcpartpicker the most expensive shit and act like they're really building stuff.  Etc.

 

So my question, when some of us that call people out for this ridiculousness so that the forums don't devolve into a 12 year old's text party... what's the reasoning here?

 

Sure I've got mods that tell me it's a safe place for everyone to feel safe to post safe things and be safe and love safety.... blah blah blah.  What I hear is that they want LTT to to be a preteen playground for anyone that wants to post anything basically.  

 

I hear this as "we want activity and people coming to the site to boost numbers and subs" any way we can   I'm a cynic though.  I'm of the age (though I have always been this way) that you should do as much to help people help you as you can.  Type properly, make it easy for people to read and understand you.  And if you're being a douchebag, expect to get called out. 

 

So after all my stupid ranting above, how do you feel?  Are you of the mind that the forums should be a free place to play, or is it okay to expect people to provide a modicum of respect for those they're asking for help from?  Granted, I know kids just type how they type, I am sure my parents smacked their heads about me as a child.  

 

In my view, this isn't their playground. This is a public forum, where people come together.  It's NOT a place for things you wouldn't say in front of your parents for example.  It gets old wondering if I am going to get a time-out for stating the obvious in some threads (the 12900k with DDR5 thread is an example).

 

Of course if you think I'm being an ass, please say so.  I welcome discussion and understand I may simply be a minority and sliding down the hill of being an angry old man.  I'm ranting and rambling a little, part of my thought process.

 

Or if this thread isn't suitable for discussion, I'm cool with that too.  

[Chris Pratt]

Kind of curious what prompted this. Without context, it does seem like you're being a bit hyperbolic here. Any public forum is going to have issues like your describe. That's the nature of being a public forum, especially given the Internet. Spend a little time on Twitter and the worst that gets posted here will seem downright quaint.

 

I can't speak to your experience, but in mine, the mods have never came down or chastised me for asking for more info, or just flat out saying something is silly or unconstructive. I've actually gotten into pretty heat squabbles with some who people here who just act like idiots and need to be called out as such. It's all about tone and attempting to remain constructive, though. If you just post that some one is a moron, yeah, that's probably going to provoke a mod, but if you engage and explain in an even-headed way why what they're saying is wrong or dumb, then that should be fine.

 

My two cents, though. Like I said, I don't know the context here.

 

[Dedayog]

2 minutes ago, Chris Pratt said:

Kind of curious what prompted this. Without context, it does seem like you're being a bit hyperbolic here. Any public forum is going to have issues like your describe. That's the nature of being a public forum, especially given the Internet. Spend a little time on Twitter and the worst that gets posted here will seem downright quaint.

 

I can't speak to your experience, but in mine, the mods have never came down or chastised me for asking for more info, or just flat out saying something is silly or unconstructive. I've actually gotten into pretty heat squabbles with some who people here who just act like idiots and need to be called out as such. It's all about tone and attempting to remain constructive, though. If you just post that some one is a moron, yeah, that's probably going to provoke a mod, but if you engage and explain in an even-headed way why what they're saying is wrong or dumb, then that should be fine.

 

My two cents, though. Like I said, I don't know the context here.

 

Good points.  

 

I purposefully didn't post examples, as I wanted this to be more on concept than arguing over if I deserved a certain reprimand for XX comment.

[Moonzy]

3 hours ago, Dedayog said:

Type properly, make it easy for people to read and understand you.

Nah, I type however I want as long as it gets the message across

I'm not in English class, and communication is about sending your message's intent

 

But I respect people who ignore my message if they truly think it's hard to comprehend due to my deliberate weird typing style (personality?) that I develop over the years on the internet

 

Just use the ignore feature to change the forum's environment to your liking

[Arika]

7 hours ago, Dedayog said:

So my question, when some of us that call people out for this ridiculousness so that the forums don't devolve into a 12 year old's text party... what's the reasoning here?

 

Sure I've got mods that tell me it's a safe place for everyone to feel safe to post safe things and be safe and love safety.... blah blah blah.  What I hear is that they want LTT to to be a preteen playground for anyone that wants to post anything basically.  

 

I hear this as "we want activity and people coming to the site to boost numbers and subs

We're having a very different experience. I see mods locking pointless threads daily. Mods joining threads saying that they need more information. Mods joining debates.

 

As long as you're acting within the CS, then the Mods are happy.

The main rule of : don't be a dick

Which, while fairly vague in its wording, doesn't get abused as much as I would expect on any other platform. 

 

7 hours ago, Dedayog said:

And if you're being a douchebag, expect to get called out. 

And people do, constantly.

 

 

Unfortunately the audience is shifting to younger ages, ages that sometimes have trouble articulating what they mean because they grew up on short form text messages and twitter.

 

I would say this is the most rounded social platforms (for lack of a better term) i've ever been apart of in terms of what is or isn't allowed and the mods act accordingly.

Discord, twitter, reddit are all much worse in terms of their moderation. And hyper specific forums I'm a part of don't even stray outside of the main purpose so post counts are much lower overall (thought at least one has some fairly overzealous mods and community managers).

[GDRRiley]

10 hours ago, Dedayog said:

So here on LTT, we get chastised and put into time-outs for being honest.  We have some posters that prefer not to use grammar, punctuation.  We have some that just want to brag about their wallet.  We have some that just pcpartpicker the most expensive shit and act like they're really building stuff.  Etc.

noting we can do about bad grammar and punctuation, thats members needing to improve

 

those get locked if you report them, the mod team can not read everything on the forum.

 

so if you seen an issue report it, we will try our best to get it resolved

Quote

So my question, when some of us that call people out for this ridiculousness so that the forums don't devolve into a 12 year old's text party... what's the reasoning here?

 

Sure I've got mods that tell me it's a safe place for everyone to feel safe to post safe things and be safe and love safety.... blah blah blah.  What I hear is that they want LTT to to be a preteen playground for anyone that wants to post anything basically.  

No we don't, our rules outline that people under 13 are not allowed. Theres been talks behind the scenes on what we do and don't want.

Quote

I hear this as "we want activity and people coming to the site to boost numbers and subs" any way we can   I'm a cynic though.  I'm of the age (though I have always been this way) that you should do as much to help people help you as you can.  Type properly, make it easy for people to read and understand you.  And if you're being a douchebag, expect to get called out. 

How many people come here doesn't matter, it has lost  money forever

 

Quote

Or if this thread isn't suitable for discussion, I'm cool with that too.  

I'd jokingly lock it but thats reserved for MOFT

Edited October 16, 2021 by GDRRiley

[Jtalk4456]

8 hours ago, Dedayog said:

In my view, this isn't their playground. This is a public forum, where people come together. 

Like how kids come together and play... on a public playground? XD

OK jokes aside, I think you're being a bit controlling of others behavior. As a public forum, the bare minimum is a free market of ideas, meaning people can post what they want to say, how they want to say it. If you don't like it, you have the free choice to not read it, ignore/block the person, or simply reply to them with your feelings. To go the step further, if something is an actual issue other than just bad grammar or not being clear and concise with a post, you and everyone else have the option to report it to the moderators for review. Taking a step further they have the right as moderators of the platform to express their concerns with certain posts and topics as they frequently do. They can ban topics, as they do with politics and illegal activity, given knowing those will only lead to other bad behavior they would need to moderate later. Everyone has the right to be an A**hole, but everyone has the right to report them for it as well. 

Also I'd like to challenge the idea of a public forum. 

Quote

A public forum, also called an open forum, is open to all expression that is protected under the First Amendment. Streets, parks, and sidewalks are considered open to public discourse by tradition and are designated as traditional public forums

Sorry to break it to you but social media is not by any means a public forum.

Facebook is a company, twitter is a company, LTT is a company, and they have the right to restrict or allow whatever the crap they want on their forum. It's not a public forum, it's a private one that happens to be easy to join. If you think people should care more about grammar and clear language, fine that's your opinion. If you think you have a right to force that on other people who don't care about it, then you probably should be a grade school English teacher. that's the only time you will have that kind of control over the writings of others. Alternately, open your own private forum, struggle finding an audience willing to join, get established maybe, then go through purging everyone who has bad grammar. You won't have a forum after that, but you seem to value form over function in that regards, and that's your choice

[Eschew]

Hey there.

9 hours ago, Dedayog said:

So my question, when some of us that call people out for this ridiculousness so that the forums don't devolve into a 12 year old's text party... what's the reasoning here?

 

Sure I've got mods that tell me it's a safe place for everyone to feel safe to post safe things and be safe and love safety.... blah blah blah.  What I hear is that they want LTT to to be a preteen playground for anyone that wants to post anything basically.  

 

I hear this as "we want activity and people coming to the site to boost numbers and subs" any way we can   I'm a cynic though.  I'm of the age (though I have always been this way) that you should do as much to help people help you as you can.  Type properly, make it easy for people to read and understand you.  And if you're being a douchebag, expect to get called out. 

 

So after all my stupid ranting above, how do you feel?  Are you of the mind that the forums should be a free place to play, or is it okay to expect people to provide a modicum of respect for those they're asking for help from?  Granted, I know kids just type how they type, I am sure my parents smacked their heads about me as a child.  

 

In my view, this isn't their playground. This is a public forum, where people come together.  It's NOT a place for things you wouldn't say in front of your parents for example.  It gets old wondering if I am going to get a time-out for stating the obvious in some threads (the 12900k with DDR5 thread is an example).

I'm reading a dissonance between your expectations of a forum / a forum member, and LTTF's expectations (Community Standards), which -- no judgement on my part -- is perfectly acceptable. If you're dissatisfied with the forum / another person's usage of the forum, an idea would be to change either your expectations of LTTF / its members, or to suggest a more widespread change in the Forum Suggestions (no harm in a polite request).

 

LTTF, to me, has always prioritized being inclusive. In more explicit wording -- the original intent is being respectful to each other, regardless of their background or how they wish to use / communicate on the forums.

 

Accurate grammar isn't a strict requirement. And I believe some members treat forum threads like Discord, and Status Updates like Twitter. Though some (including myself) might perceive this sort of attitude / content as meaningless or uninspired, so long as the response is coherent enough, there's no grevious harm done on any other forum member. And users are always free to ignore content they'd rather not see, whether through Ignore Users or simply by not responding to or entertaining inane messages.

 

As for explicitly calling out / shaming people; my understanding is that LTTF prefers to handle troublemakers and CS violators in an orderly and tactful manner. High-key cancel culture shames not only the finger-pointer, but also reflects on the forum as a whole (e.g. that community of jerks), incites more discord (Group A accusing the person vs. Group B defending the person), and runs a little contrary to LTTF's inclusive environment. If a forum member is being particularly volatile, reporting their messages and letting the Mods discuss it between their team and to handle the incident is always an option. Or, if you'd like to present more info / your opinion, or to correct someone else's statement, there's always a way to word your response in a non-aggressive, neutral tone.

 

I'd suggest tempering your expectations of the forum and its members, if you wish to keep your experience here relatively enjoyable.

Feel free to shun my opinion / advice, however.

[YellowJersey]

This is why I'm largely a lurker.

[Spotty]

11 hours ago, Dedayog said:

So here on LTT, we get chastised and put into time-outs for being honest.  We have some posters that prefer not to use grammar, punctuation.  We have some that just want to brag about their wallet.  We have some that just pcpartpicker the most expensive shit and act like they're really building stuff.  Etc.

 

So my question, when some of us that call people out for this ridiculousness so that the forums don't devolve into a 12 year old's text party... what's the reasoning here?

To be frank this comes across as seeking justification for being a dick towards people who may not meet your own personal posting standards - be it posting discussions you aren't interested in, questions you feel are redundant or unnecessary, or using incorrect grammar.

 

11 hours ago, Dedayog said:

In my view, this isn't their playground.

This isn't your playground either. You don't get to dictate the posting standards others have to follow.

 

There's thousands of people who use this forum every day. Everyone is going to be a little bit different, have different interests, and different posting styles. I can guarantee that there will be topics that not everyone will be interested in, and there will even be low effort posts that you may not want to participate in (threads titled "help" or posts that just say "see title" are good examples). Just because those posts do not meet your own personal standards does not mean that others aren't interested in participating. The best thing to do is simply move on and find something that does interest you which you do want to participate in.

 

If you go around chastising people for their grammar or the quality of their posts then you're just being a dick. You're not teaching anyone a lesson or whatever you may think it is you are doing but rather just setting a poor example of behaviour yourself and causing further disruptions to the discussion making it even more difficult for a serious and productive discussion to take place. If someone who is willing and able to help sees the thread but it's just full of people bickering over grammar or posting standards then they're probably not going to want to get involved and caught up in all that unnecessary drama.

From a moderation standpoint if there is actually a problem that we feel we need to address then please report the post and allow the moderation team to handle it. It becomes much more difficult for us to get a positive resolution when other people jump in and start backseating or criticising. It puts people on the defensive and makes it much more difficult for us to have a conversation with them because instead of listening to what we have to say they are simply focused on "but what about that asshole that was being a dick in my thread!". Not only that, but most minor issues can be dealt with by the moderation team very quickly and easily, for example dealing with posts in the wrong subforum can be dealt with in a matter of seconds, however once you add in people arguing and causing further issues it becomes quite labour intensive to deal with.

[SansVarnic]

13 hours ago, Dedayog said:

What I hear is that they want LTT to to be a preteen playground for anyone that wants to post anything basically.  

Nope, what I expect is mature and civil conversation. I also expect younger members to aspire to become able to have levels of suitable conversation in the forum. Conversation will show age, ignorance, wisdom, knowledge, and many other things. Knowing this and accepting that other younger and sometimes older develop these skills takes time, recognizing this shows patience, understanding, maturity and wisdom. Something I see lacking from certain members these days that ought to know better.

 

And I agree 100% with what @Spotty said. 

 

*edit

Lastly if you have an issue with how the Forum is run and how Moderation is done, our Admins are able to take your concerns into consideration.

[Dedayog]

Great comments and well thought out responses. Some are a bit too lenient, I would hate to see how they are around real life people who act like this, but they have to clean up after their own kids, not me.

 

I mostly agree with what's been posted.  While I would love to put the kids into time out that post "HEEEELLLPP!!!!!  PLEEZZZ!!!!!!!!! OMG !!!!!!!! in their titles but that's me.  If you all love that and think it's cute, then that's cool too.  

 

Hey, the great thing about (most of) the world is that we can do and say what we please.  A bad thing about the world is we can do and say what we please

 

I am more than happy to help, and I pick and choose who I help, as you all do as well.  I just tend to be a bit more vocal about my opinions.  

 

Thanks for posting and giving me more to chew on, made my day go by a bit faster.  Appreciate it.

[Beerzerker]

1 hour ago, Dedayog said:

Great comments and well thought out responses. Some are a bit too lenient, I would hate to see how they are around real life people who act like this, but they have to clean up after their own kids, not me.

 

I mostly agree with what's been posted.  While I would love to put the kids into time out that post "HEEEELLLPP!!!!!  PLEEZZZ!!!!!!!!! OMG !!!!!!!! in their titles but that's me.  If you all love that and think it's cute, then that's cool too.  

 

Hey, the great thing about (most of) the world is that we can do and say what we please.  A bad thing about the world is we can do and say what we please

 

I am more than happy to help, and I pick and choose who I help, as you all do as well.  I just tend to be a bit more vocal about my opinions.  

 

Thanks for posting and giving me more to chew on, made my day go by a bit faster.  Appreciate it.

See that all the time and it's been mentioned before how annoying it is.

While one does have the freedom to say what they want, at the same time there are limits too.
I'm not talking about legally defined limits, I'm talking about situations where it's just bad to say a certain thing - And sometimes it's not what's said so much as "How" it's said that makes it bad.

Everyone here will at times disagree with the "Popular" consensus seen about a given topic or subject of discussion, someone with a thought or opinion, I know I do sometimes and that's just how it is because I'm not a robot or clone of everyone else, I'm an individual like anyone else you can name.

At the same time I have to remember no one is going to agree with me all the time either so if there is a disagreement, I have to take it in stride instead of having a knee-jerk reaction over it.
With that said I can't say I've been 100% perfect about that and I'm quite sure you won't find someone here that's been perfect about it either but for the most part I do try at least.  

Speaking of to agree or disagree, I already know and admit there are times when I don't agree with the majority and it's foolish to expect everyone, a majority or even at times a minority to agree with me all the time - That ain't happening.
That also applies to everyone else, if you've have this expectation going, you will be disappointed because there is no single person that's going to agree with you all the time, just as it is for me.

 

[Master Disaster]

My experience with the site staff here has always been great.

 

When I've crossed the line it was pointed out exactly what happened, if you ask a question, they answer, if you have an issue they help (well except for that Paul guy who just points and laughs) and I don't think I've ever seen a situation that I have thought was resolved unfairly (granted I don't see every situation and have no idea what happens behind the scenes).

 

I will say this though, if you're worried about whether one of your posts is going to cause you an issue then you should probably change it.