Thinking of wiring up my home

[NephtisSeibzehn]

Hi! 

I bought my home not too long ago and I since I am doing some remodeling I want to make a new wired network for it. I am a complete noob at this but so far this is what I have planned:

 

- I am unsure if I should add a hardware firewall. I have express vpn and I want to somehow incorporate it --  I'm not sure if I should get a new router.

- The items in the map are all of what I plan to have wired - I also have stuff I will be running on my wifi, like tablets, phones, printer, and ac hub (ecobee).

- I am considering using cat7 (see link) for all the wiring since a 1000ft spooler doesn't seem terribly expensive and I would be running the lines through the walls. I want each bedroom to have at least 2 ethernet ports and the entertainment room and office to have at least 4.  

- I have not decided what cameras, server for cameras, or poe switch ( maybe this one? )to get. I'm also unsure of what unmanaged switch to get. I am considering getting this switch

 

Thanks for taking the time to read this!

 

edit: I also found this Cat6a cable, but seems to be even more expensive than the cat7 I linked above?

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by NephtisSeibzehn

[Donut417]

On 10/12/2021 at 12:50 AM, NephtisSeibzehn said:

I am unsure if I should add a hardware firewall. I have express vpn and I want to somehow incorporate it --  I'm not sure if I should get a new router.

You might want to look in to PFsense. You can buy an appliance from Netgate or a few other companies sell boxes. OR you can build a box using PC hardware. The only thing about PFsense, it doesnt really support WIFI very well, so you will need to invest in a Wireless AP. The next thing it treats each network interface like its own thing. What I mean is that if you stick a 4 port Ethernet card in for LAN, it will treat each Port as its own network. So what you would need is at least 2 Ethernet ports one for WAN and one for LAN and the LAN port would need to be connected to a switch. PFsense is a great solution from what I have heard and there's a lot that it can do. 

 

On 10/12/2021 at 12:50 AM, NephtisSeibzehn said:

The items in the map are all of what I plan to have wired - I also have stuff I will be running on my wifi, like tablets, phones, printer, and ac hub (ecobee).

The only thing here I want to mention to you is many smart TVs only have 100 Mbps Ethernet, yeah in 2021 they still do 100 Mbps Ethernet. The reason I mention this, is I know that a Full Quality 4K video being played thru a local Plex server can eat over 100 Mbps of bandwidth. You may or may not be using Plex, but Im just saying that could limit you. 

 

On 10/12/2021 at 12:50 AM, NephtisSeibzehn said:

am considering using cat7 (see link) for all the wiring since a 1000ft spooler doesn't seem terribly expensive and I would be running the lines through the walls. I want each bedroom to have at least 2 ethernet ports and the entertainment room and office to have at least 4.  

I know someone will comment and try to correct me but here I go. Cat 7 is not TIA certified. All other Ethernet cables are. So I dont see Cat 7 as a legit standard. Furthermore from what I have read most cables dont even meet the standard. I can tell you that the reason why its probably cheaper is because its crappy cable that couldn't meet TIA certs and they are selling it as Cat 7. The fact of the matter is this Cat 5e is rated for 2.5 Gbps, Cat 6 for 5 Gbps and 10 Gbps at shorter distances. Cat 6a is rated for 10 Gbps. While Cat 8 does have TIA certs I believe and is rated for 40 Gbps on very short distances, the gear required doesnt exist and may never exist. If you need more than 10 Gbps then you need to look in to Fiber. 

 

One last thing, make sure you get Full copper cabling for wall install, dont buy that Copper Clad Aluminum (CCA) shit. CCA cabling is fine for short runs and patch cabling, but full copper is what I would use in walls. 

 

On 10/12/2021 at 12:50 AM, NephtisSeibzehn said:

have not decided what cameras, server for cameras, or poe switch ( maybe this one? )to get. I'm also unsure of what unmanaged switch to get. I am considering getting this switch

Im not an expert with POE. But the Unmanaged switch probably is fine. Netgear and TPLink are two brands I see suggested. 

[Falcon1986]

On 10/11/2021 at 11:50 PM, NephtisSeibzehn said:

- I have not decided what cameras, server for cameras, or poe switch ( maybe this one? )to get. I'm also unsure of what unmanaged switch to get.

Make sure your PoE switch has the power budget to support those cameras. The unmanaged PoE switch you linked to is 802.11at/af compatible, but it seems like they're also active-PoE. Ensure this is what you want.

[Donut417]

3 minutes ago, Falcon1986 said:

Make sure your PoE switch has the power budget to support those cameras. The unmanaged PoE switch you linked to is 802.11at/af compatible, but it seems like they're also active-PoE. Ensure this is what you want.

Ive alway had a question. Can you hook non POE devices up to a POE port? Ive always wondered if that would work or force unintended voltage in to the device. 

[Falcon1986]

41 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Ive alway had a question. Can you hook non POE devices up to a POE port? Ive always wondered if that would work or force unintended voltage in to the device. 

Depends on whether it's active or passive PoE.

 

Active PoE sends power down the ethernet no matter what is connected, so there is risk of damage to non-PoE devices.

 

Passive PoE, on the other hand, negotiates with the connected device first before sending power, which is safer for non-PoE devices.

 

Ubiquiti's switches tend to be passive PoE; older ones might be active. PoE, PoE+ and PoE++ have to do with the amount of power that can be sent down the ethernet cable.

 

@NephtisSeibzehn Another thing to keep in mind is the voltage that these PoE clients require. Some use 24V, others require 48V. My advice would be to get the PoE cameras needed first then decide on the PoE switch. Or if the camera system comes with a central console that has a non-PoE uplink to your switch/router, that would be good too.

[NephtisSeibzehn]

On 10/14/2021 at 3:39 PM, Donut417 said:

You might want to look in to PFsense. You can buy an appliance from Netgate or a few other companies sell boxes. OR you can build a box using PC hardware. The only thing about PFsense, it doesnt really support WIFI very well, so you will need to invest in a Wireless AP. The next thing it treats each network interface like its own thing. What I mean is that if you stick a 4 port Ethernet card in for LAN, it will treat each Port as its own network. So what you would need is at least 2 Ethernet ports one for WAN and one for LAN and the LAN port would need to be connected to a switch. PFsense is a great solution from what I have heard and there's a lot that it can do. 

 

Thank you for recommending that! This seems to be the best bang for the buck that I see, and it looks like my vpn (expressvpn) plays well with it.  As for wifi, wouldn't my current router work well with that? modem -> pfsense firewall -> router, so any device connected to it would be under the firewall no? 

 

The only thing here I want to mention to you is many smart TVs only have 100 Mbps Ethernet, yeah in 2021 they still do 100 Mbps Ethernet. The reason I mention this, is I know that a Full Quality 4K video being played thru a local Plex server can eat over 100 Mbps of bandwidth. You may or may not be using Plex, but Im just saying that could limit you.

 

 

Yeah, I've noticed that and man, it sucks. I'm mostly sticking to using the TV's apps - disney+, hbomax, prime video, netflix. I've honestly never really looked into plex, but from what little I've read so far sounds like something worth investing into in the future. 

 

I know someone will comment and try to correct me but here I go. Cat 7 is not TIA certified. All other Ethernet cables are. So I dont see Cat 7 as a legit standard. Furthermore from what I have read most cables dont even meet the standard. I can tell you that the reason why its probably cheaper is because its crappy cable that couldn't meet TIA certs and they are selling it as Cat 7. The fact of the matter is this Cat 5e is rated for 2.5 Gbps, Cat 6 for 5 Gbps and 10 Gbps at shorter distances. Cat 6a is rated for 10 Gbps. While Cat 8 does have TIA certs I believe and is rated for 40 Gbps on very short distances, the gear required doesnt exist and may never exist. If you need more than 10 Gbps then you need to look in to Fiber. 

 

One last thing, make sure you get Full copper cabling for wall install, dont buy that Copper Clad Aluminum (CCA) shit. CCA cabling is fine for short runs and patch cabling, but full copper is what I would use in walls. 

 

I think I remember a video where linus networked his home and they talked about a 1000ft cat6 spindle for something like $160. The ones in monoprice seem to be $440+. I've been out of the game too long to even really know where to look haha. Having said that, I will follow your recommendation and look for full copper cabling and not cca. Looks like monoprice may not be the way to go? any recommendations?

 

 

On 10/14/2021 at 5:11 PM, Falcon1986 said:

Make sure your PoE switch has the power budget to support those cameras. The unmanaged PoE switch you linked to is 802.11at/af compatible, but it seems like they're also active-PoE. Ensure this is what you want.

 

 

On 10/14/2021 at 6:09 PM, Falcon1986 said:

 

@NephtisSeibzehn Another thing to keep in mind is the voltage that these PoE clients require. Some use 24V, others require 48V. My advice would be to get the PoE cameras needed first then decide on the PoE switch. Or if the camera system comes with a central console that has a non-PoE uplink to your switch/router, that would be good too.

 

 

I've been looking over systems that may include a poe switch and this seems to be one of the higher rated I could find.  Don't know if I'll be able to upgrade the hdd on that though. I'd be getting the 8 camera package (at most I think I'd use 6).

 

[Donut417]

5 minutes ago, NephtisSeibzehn said:

As for wifi, wouldn't my current router work well with that? modem -> pfsense firewall -> router, so any device connected to it would be under the firewall no? 

PFsnese can do the router duties as well. And while you could use your current router in AP mode, I was just mentioning that PFsense is not a all in one solution. 

 

6 minutes ago, NephtisSeibzehn said:

I think I remember a video where linus networked his home and they talked about a 1000ft cat6 spindle for something like $160. The ones in monoprice seem to be $440+. I've been out of the game too long to even really know where to look haha. Having said that, I will follow your recommendation and look for full copper cabling and not cca. Looks like monoprice may not be the way to go? any recommendations?

Copper prices are probably up. Not to mention inflation and if you live in the US tariffs. I dont have suggests on cable. You could however look at a home improvement store like Home Depot, Lowes or Menards and see what they have. 

 

 

[Falcon1986]

47 minutes ago, NephtisSeibzehn said:

Yeah, I've noticed that and man, it sucks. I'm mostly sticking to using the TV's apps - disney+, hbomax, prime video, netflix. I've honestly never really looked into plex, but from what little I've read so far sounds like something worth investing into in the future. 

Most online streaming services won't even go beyond 100Mbps anyway. 4k video streaming requires uninterrupted 25Mbps for smooth playback. LAN streaming might be a different story especially if you're planning to stream higher-quality video.

 

47 minutes ago, NephtisSeibzehn said:

I've been out of the game too long to even really know where to look haha.

Take a look at Infinite Cable.

 

47 minutes ago, NephtisSeibzehn said:

I've been looking over systems that may include a poe switch and this seems to be one of the higher rated I could find.

If you're getting one of these all-in-one systems, then you don't need a separate PoE switch for the cameras.

 

50 minutes ago, NephtisSeibzehn said:

Don't know if I'll be able to upgrade the hdd on that though.

Scroll down to the description. It supports a maximum of 2x 10TB hard drives. So likely you can upgrade the disks later.

[NephtisSeibzehn]

1 hour ago, Donut417 said:

PFsnese can do the router duties as well. And while you could use your current router in AP mode, I was just mentioning that PFsense is not a all in one solution. 

 

Copper prices are probably up. Not to mention inflation and if you live in the US tariffs. I dont have suggests on cable. You could however look at a home improvement store like Home Depot, Lowes or Menards and see what they have. 

 

 

 

Yeah, the more I'm reading on pfsense the more it.. well... makes sense lol 

 

 

1 hour ago, Falcon1986 said:

Most online streaming services won't even go beyond 100Mbps anyway. 4k video streaming requires uninterrupted 25Mbps for smooth playback. LAN streaming might be a different story especially if you're planning to stream higher-quality video.

 

Take a look at Infinite Cable.

 

If you're getting one of these all-in-one systems, then you don't need a separate PoE switch for the cameras.

 

Scroll down to the description. It supports a maximum of 2x 10TB hard drives. So likely you can upgrade the disks later.

 

Thank you for that link. Would this be the way to go? Less expensive than the monoprice link and seems to be better overall cable too. You're right about not needing a switch if I get the all in one system - I had considered going diy the entire way but this seems more convenient. paying a premium for it for sure, but seems to be worth it? I also noticed that I could add more hdds after I made the post haha. I think it comes with 4tb of space - I think that should be good enough.

 

[Falcon1986]

4 hours ago, NephtisSeibzehn said:

Thank you for that link. Would this be the way to go? Less expensive than the monoprice link and seems to be better overall cable too. You're right about not needing a switch if I get the all in one system - I had considered going diy the entire way but this seems more convenient. paying a premium for it for sure, but seems to be worth it? I also noticed that I could add more hdds after I made the post haha. I think it comes with 4tb of space - I think that should be good enough.

Unless you have a specific need for Cat6a, I'd go for the less-expensive Cat6.

[NephtisSeibzehn]

Bit of an update: 

 

I've purchased most of what I need, but I am now left with the switch. I was thinking of going with an unmanaged switch since it's plug and play, but a friend convinced me that going with a managed switch may be the way to go as I could get better security and troubleshooting would be easier in the long run.

 

What's a switch you'd recommend? This seems to have good reviews, though it's definitely on the pricey side for me.
 

Edit: Thank you Falcon1986 for recommending Infinite Cable! I ended up contacting their sales team and they helped me make my purchase - and saved me some money by recommending alternate things to buy. 

 

Edit 2: poe is not important for the switch - the only reason I considered one was for the security cameras and since I'm going to buy a whole system I won't need to buy anything else.