Being an Early Adopter SUCKS

[Plouffe]

I reviewed the LG OLED CX and LOVED IT but after daily driving for a few months I've already got burn in and keep running into a few other minor annoyances. So I'm gonna try to fix it!

 

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[swimtome]

In regards to the brightness issue, I know this is specifically TV firmware causing it.  But as an aside if anyone is nauseated by Intel Laptop drivers doing the same rollercoaster brightness, this lets you disable it: https://github.com/orev/dpst-control.  (Thanks Tom Scott, I had no idea how to fix this).  

 

Intel® Display Power Saving Technology (DPST), sometimes called "adaptive brightness", is a feature of some Intel® graphics chips that automatically adjusts the screen brightness based on what is shown on the screen.  

 

[Sorenson]

31 minutes ago, swimtome said:

In regards to the brightness issue, I know this is specifically TV firmware causing it.  But as an aside if anyone is nauseated by Intel Laptop drivers doing the same rollercoaster brightness, this lets you disable it: https://github.com/orev/dpst-control.  (Thanks Tom Scott, I had no idea how to fix this).  

 

Intel® Display Power Saving Technology (DPST), sometimes called "adaptive brightness", is a feature of some Intel® graphics chips that automatically adjusts the screen brightness based on what is shown on the screen.  

 

It’s the ABL reducing the bright white elements, such as word or excel to prevent burnin. I follow some of the TV reviewers and this is why they recommend LED TVs for computer use over OLED. Also, OLEDs have an SDR brightness of around 220-300 which is pretty low if you have a bright room.

 

It would be really interesting to see Linus do a swap to the 50” Samsung QN90a or LG Qned display for a month and see if he prefers the Mini-LED over the OLED.

[Zodiark1593]

For watching 4:3 content, an OLED would be amazing. But also due to said black bars, probably some hideous image retention. And I also use it as a PC monitor. So I’ll probably wait for micro LED. 

[BaidDSB]

So what is so special about that 0413 date?

[AnonymousGuy]

Early adopter?  Homie, this has been a problem with OLED's since their use on phones.  Meanwhile I leave shit open on my desktop so long I get image retention with an IPS screen (that goes away on its own)

 

On 8/23/2021 at 4:45 PM, AnonymousGuy said:

OLED is an awful idea for a desktop monitor.  Task bar is going to be burned in probably in the first week.  I burned the OLED in my S5 with 1 night of forgetting to turn off the screen.

[jones177]

In 2019 after watching a LTT video on the LG OLED with 120hz and VRR I ended up buying 2.  The one I used as a daily driver burned in and it took about 4900 hours or about a year. The one that is only used for gaming and movies is fine.

 

What "burns in" is from darker UIs and not bright games meters.

 

Now my daily driver is a LG Nanocell 85 and I only use the OLEDs for gaming and movies.

 

What I like most about this video is that it conveys how I feel about it and that is once you see the burn in it can't be unseen.

 

I have been an early adopter in tec since the 80s and I call this one a mixed bag so I will be using OLEDs until something better comes along and I expect to see that on LTT first.

 

 

[AnonymousGuy]

31 minutes ago, jones177 said:

In 2019 after watching a LTT video on the LG OLED with 120hz and VRR I ended up buying 2.  The one I used as a daily driver burned in and it took about 4900 hours or about a year. The one that is only used for gaming and movies is fine.

 

What "burns in" is from darker UIs and not bright games meters.

 

Now my daily driver is a LG Nanocell 85 and I only use the OLEDs for gaming and movies.

 

What I like most about this video is that it conveys how I feel about it and that is once you see the burn in it can't be unseen.

 

I have been an early adopter in tec since the 80s and I call this one a mixed bag so I will be using OLEDs until something better comes along and I expect to see that on LTT first.

 

 

It's the blue sub pixels that end up dying.   So anything that is using a lot of blue to be displayed or pure white will burn.  Samsung tries to mitigate it by making the blue subpixels larger than the red and green ones so they're effectively redundant on their own but it's just a mitigation that doesn't work all the time.  I think there was discussions years ago to manufacture extra blue subpixels or something but I don't know if they ever did that.

[SolarNova]

This annoyed me some what watching this in certain places.

 

How long i've been on this forum telling people what NOT to do with an OLED as a monitor, and what TO do, and Linus goes a does everything u should not be doing. Then complains about it... whilst still showing that he's doing half of them !

 

Hide task bar .. NEEDED .. isnt on, right at the start of the video u can see it.

Hide Icons / Transparent Icons, NEEDED .... big ol column of solid color icons present.

No opening windows in the same spot... Admits to doing right of the get go, then continues on to show a fully expanded browser -.-

 

FFS read ur own damn forum now and then.

 

ofc ur seeing "burn-in" you ....turnip , u basically done everything u could to try and get it.

 

 

Still ..on the positive side.. He got the whole 'burn-in' vs "burn-out"  right ...which was nice to see.

 

Really shouldnt have been messing with the service menu like that. Just turn of ASBL and leave it ..pressing all those buttons surely caused that issue. Nobody recommends a person get the remote then start randomly mashing buttons ..thats just stupid and every time the service remote is recommended people are told to research exactly what they want to do and how to do it.

 

Still, OLED for office work is a no no. OLED for PC for gaming and 'content consumption' ..YES. Just make some habitual changes in how exactly u use it and u wont have to worry about "burn-in"

 

[XGoodGuyFitz]

this title confused me so much.

[Luscious]

I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so LOL And no, the Aorus re-branded one will suck just the same.

 

I've been rocking a LG 34UM95 IPS panel that's going on 7 years old now. In that time I have only had to send it in ONCE for a board swap. The display itself remains impeccable with no burn in, no light bleed or loss of brightness. And this is a monitor that gets used 10 hours a day easy, remains powered on and is set with a screen saver with a 15 minute run+sleep.

 

Whenever you rock a TV as a monitor you will have issues that don't affect a TV when it is USED AS a TV. That includes power not coming on from sleep, burn in, input auto switching and other oddities. Never mind the fact that after a certain size a flat panel becomes a hindrance to sit that close to compared to a monitor that is ergonomically curved like a 38 inch LG... or go balls to the wall and stack a pair of curved 49 inch panels. And even if you must have a TV it will never be curved like a monitor for obvious reasons.

 

Even on a smartphone OLED can be a headache, especially when used for work and you need to keep an app open. I can see visible burn in on my ancient S6 edge+ from exactly that scenario. Using dark mode can certainly help, but if your particular app doesn't support it you are SOL. Even on my IPS monitor there are times when I can see ghosting from a window frame that's been static for an entire day. Good news is that goes away soon after and isn't permanent like it would be with OLED.

 

I have had other products with OLED issues as well. My TEAC UD-503 desktop DAC uses an OLED panel and has noticeable burn in from being kept on with the same pixels lit. Used in a work environment this would not fly well with audiophiles especially if you need to constantly monitor volume levels and inputs. It's not terribly bad because I noticed it early on, but still, it no longer looks the same or like new. Fortunately I can both dim it and have it turned off. I wish I would have kept it off from the get go.

 

Use case will most certainly dictate what works best. For a productivity solution there is nothing better than having 2 or more monitors especially if you need to watch stuff that's constantly changing or keep frequently used windows up. For gaming a single monitor is the better option IMO, especially when some games flip out trying to go full screen when it detects more than one monitor connected. Ideally if you want the best of both worlds and have the $$$ just run two separate systems - one for gaming and another for work. Get REALLY creative and you could even build a desk PC with two motherboards and some smoked tempered glass covering it all.

 

So yeah, YMMV but my experience with OLED so far has not been good. My choice for a monitor will remain IPS. Even the TV that I have is a LG 4K IPS.

[Egg-Roll]

That opening had so much cringe it actually caused physical pain, don't do that again.

 

2 hours ago, Luscious said:

I've been rocking a LG 34UM95 IPS panel that's going on 7 years old now. In that time I have only had to send it in ONCE for a board swap. The display itself remains impeccable with no burn in, no light bleed or loss of brightness. And this is a monitor that gets used 10 hours a day easy, remains powered on and is set with a screen saver with a 15 minute run+sleep.

I only have TNs the burn in I see will disappear after time with the exception of one monitor that has a taskbar line across it, but that too by now might be gone (it runs black screen now 24/7), it's about 8/9 years old and outside of the burn in at the task bar perfectly fine. I don't use screen savers, tho maybe I should start lol.

 

As much as I would love to enjoy the perks of OLED I can't justify ever buying one due to the risks, to date none of my phones have had OLED yet either but that's mostly due to price point more than anything.

 

2 hours ago, Luscious said:

For gaming a single monitor is the better option IMO, especially when some games flip out trying to go full screen when it detects more than one monitor connected.

What games do that now? maybe 5-10 years ago but all games I've tried don't do this.

[Tieox]

This is all leading up to Linus rocking 2 G9's stacked.

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

"why didn't Apple put an OLED on the macbook" (i've heard this before on this forum), this is why. 

[descendtoascend]

12 hours ago, BaidDSB said:

So what is so special about that 0413 date?

the only thing that comes to mind is 4/13 happens to be when the webcomic Homestuck was created? probably unrelated

[adolfotregosa]

There's so much "wrong" with this video, c'mon... early adopter ??

You reset TV settings when you played with p-check, that screwed up your image, of course 

 

Don't flame me... OLED has its limitations so we play with them.

 

First.. Linus.. PLEASE, the first thing you do is to be sure HDMI Ultra Deep Color is enabled and the input type set to PC, so you enable 4:4:4 chroma before you whine about "text clarity" (your tv was set to 4:2:2 chroma, again p-check). Also PC mode is especially important because on the other inputs, "just scan" setting is typically not set to ON.

 

Next, change HDMI level to HIGH so we have correct black levels (GPU should be already 0-255) so we are 100% sure we are working with 0-255 scale on the TV. Auto is finicky. 

 

Second, ABL is undefeatable, nothing changes that. If I recall correctly any full screen white image above 146 cd/m² on the CX (RTINGS review) WILL DIMM the screen, so, set OLED value to be bellow that, colorimeter is needed of course but by experience It should be 30~35 OLED with a 0-255 signal, 16-235 needs to be set lower ( HDMI Level LOW with GPU set to limited). I understand this is not that bright for some rooms but we have to work with it.. close the window blinds.. 

 

Service menu part. Disable TPC AND GSR (same service menu page) TPC dims the screen when the TV thinks it is showing a static image for a few minutes and GSR also dims the entire screen then it thinks you have something static with at least 50% APL for a few minutes WITH a moving image. Scrolling on a forum thread is a good example if that particular forum has static sides (ads lol) but middle is moving when you scroll or games static HUD but they have to be at least 50% APL (SEE THIS) This is not the same as static logo were it dims like a blotch around the "static" thing , not cirurgically like you say on the video. 

 

Of course burn-in is an issue but at 100nits max brightness SDR...( Cinema reference and dark room) I don't typically use HDR so I can't comment on that, sorry,  I have yet to see it but I have a black wallpaper, no desktop icons and auto hide task bar. I do take care of my panel, like I said working with the limitations. 

 

EDIT: I forgot this.. Your video shows 541 hours usage but only 35 compensation cycles. That means you have a 541/35 = 15.46Hours between compensation cycles. You can see on the same service menu screen Off-RS 4 = each 4 hours usage it runs a compensation and bellow JB compensation 2000 = each 2000 Hours it will run a pixel cleaner for you. If you leave the desk, turn off the tv, let it run the cycles..

 

I hope this helps. You should now make a video explaining how to correctly use and LG OLED as monitor.

 

 

[Radium_Angel]

Are screen savers no longer a thing?

I've always run screen savers on my monitors, CRT, LED, etc, just seemed to be common sense to me.

Or Hell, just turn the thing off if not in use.

[Nystemy]

The time it takes for an LED to burn "out" is mainly dependent on the temperature of the LED itself. Warmer temperatures makes them die faster.

 

And yes, the time it takes for an LED to die also follows the magical "twice as fast for every 10 degrees C increase in operating temperature." Though, this gets whacky when looking at an array of LEDs sitting tightly spaced to each other on a rather lack luster thermal conductor. Since the actual screen itself is typically built on a sheet of glass and glass isn't an all that great thermal conductor, so sucking out the heat is likely not all that efficient. _{(who knows, some manufacturer might figure out a way to first deposit a layer of exceptionally thin glass onto some other more thermally conducting substrate, but the thermal expansion of the two materials needs to be fairly well matched to not delaminate over time instead.)}

 

I personally don't consider OLED burn in as an undefeatable issue, better cooling is likely the easy solution. Be it something as "simple" as sanding down the mother glass before bonding it to a heat sink with some thermal epoxy, or something more advanced. Either way, getting rid of the heat is one way to solve the issue. _{(water cooled OLED screens maybe?)}

But in the end.
Maybe the LG G10 might have better overall cooling compared to the CX one.

[Stahlmann]

Wow i'm really surprised that this video was this good. From the thumbnail and title i fully expected this to be a half-knowing rant on OLED. But it was actually really informative and factually correct. Good job LTT team!

 

PS: Also loved the crossover with L1Techs!

[Spindel]

With TVs I wish LTT would touch upon the ”burn-ins” OLED gets if you have direct sunlight hitting the screen.

 

Yeah direct sun ages OLED too even when the set is turned off.