Windows 11: What the hell is Microsoft thinking? (RANT)

[MadmanRB]

I am predicting this now: Windows 11 will be the worst Microsoft OS since Vista and 8, and it's all because of 11's stupid requirements.
Really Microsoft what the hell are you thinking, cutting off all processors made before 2017 all based on stupid requirements no one asked for.
TPM is a joke, really it is, as the only thing it really does is stop keyloggers, which is something you can do inside the OS if you knew how.
It doesn't stop malware, or viruses or ransomware and as secure as a motorbike protected by a keychain.
And ask any Linux user how much security secure boot offers, hello on Linux now with secure boot, bite me Microsoft.
The only reason Microsoft is doing this is to sell people new computers, they are desperate for money and think doing this will lure people to new machines in fear of their current machines being obsolete, it's a scam and I will not stand for it and nether should you.
If I were the Windows community I would let as many people know that this is a scam, and that there are alternatives that are not Macs.
Like I dunno... Linux's mint, it's free, easy to use and a 5-year-old can use it, it works for most hardware and if you don't need overpriced software like photoshop or games it's fine.
Or sticking it to Microsoft and dualboot with Windows 10 and only use windows once every so often in protest.
Lets show Microsoft not to fuck around with its users.

[Arika]

17 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

Lets show Microsoft not to fuck around with its users.

LOL good luck

 

the people that W11 affects the most (the DIY market) plus the people that are actually upset about it are such a tiny tiny tiny blip that it's not something they are going to care about.

 

17 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

they are desperate for money

how so?

Quote

Microsoft annual gross profit for 2020 was $96.937B, a 16.89% increase from 2019. Microsoft annual gross profit for 2019 was $82.933B, a 15.17% increase from 2018.

pretty sure they are fine.

 

 

You think a company as massive and as successful as Microsoft didn't already run the numbers to see what would happen if a whole bunch of people were to leave the ecosystem because of W11? They will happily take the hit.

 

Also obligatory W10 is supported until 2025, which will make the newest unsupported cpu 8 years old at that point, which is pretty far outside of the normal lifespan of a CPU and you probably should just be running Linux on hardware that old regardless of if it's supported in windows or not

[Stahlmann]

26 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

The only reason Microsoft is doing this is to sell people new computers, they are desperate for money and think doing this will lure people to new machines in fear of their current machines being obsolete, it's a scam and I will not stand for it and nether should you.

Microsoft doesn't get any money from computers sold, they get money licensing Windows. And they can do that with W10 just as well as with W11.

 

W11 is there because the changes they want to make are too big to justify it as a W10 update, that's it. If you're scared of change, then you don't have to use W11.

 

26 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

If I were the Windows community I would let as many people know that this is a scam, and that there are alternatives that are not Macs.
Like I dunno... Linux's mint, it's free, easy to use and a 5-year-old can use it, it works for most hardware and if you don't need overpriced software like photoshop or games it's fine.

Except Linux still has a long way to go to reach anywhere close to the compatibility that Windows has. Many games need a dedicated compatibility layer (Proton, etc) to work with Linux and even then it's still not guaranteed that every feature works. Also VRR and HDR support is still missing completely. So Linux is still way behind in gaming. Steam's crusade to bring Linux gaming to the masses is helping to make devs think about supporting it, but Linux support still a secondary thought at best for most devs.

 

 

W11 is here to stay, and actually brings a lot of nice features to the table if you stop crying about compatibility. And again, anyone that doesn't like it or doesn't need any of the newer features can just keep using W10.

[SorryBella]

18 minutes ago, Arika S said:

Also obligatory W10 is supported until 2025, which will make the newest unsupported cpu 8 years old at that point, which is pretty far outside of the normal lifespan of a CPU and you probably should just be running Linux on hardware that old regardless of if it's supported in windows or not

"But people still run core 2 duo on windows 10, why cant we run it on windows 11!!111!1!!1!!!"
 

we legitimately need a segment on what is planned obsolescence and whats not on Techquickie.

[GenericFanboy]

...Just dont use it..? Am i stupid? You can have your problems with W11, but Microsoft isnt gonna give a shit really. They give you options, and thats it. Same thing in a store. You can buy a banana, you have multiple options but it will never be e x a c t l y how you like your banana. 

[LogicalDrm]

-> Moved to Windows

[doubleflower]

8 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

Microsoft doesn't get any money from computers sold, they get money licensing Windows. And they can do that with W10 just as well as with W11.

 

W11 is there because the changes they want to make are too big to justify it as a W10 update, that's it. If you're scared of change, then you don't have to use W11.

 

Except Linux still has a long way to go to reach anywhere close to the compatibility that Windows has. Many games need a dedicated compatibility layer (Proton, etc) to work with Linux and even then it's still not guaranteed that every feature works. Also VRR and HDR support is still missing completely. So Linux is still way behind in gaming. Steam's crusade to bring Linux gaming to the masses is helping to make devs think about supporting it, but Linux support still a secondary thought at best for most devs.

 

 

W11 is here to stay, and actually brings a lot of nice features to the table if you stop crying about compatibility. And again, anyone that doesn't like it or doesn't need any of the newer features can just keep using W10.

It's also worth noting that hardware support on Linux is still a hit or miss (especially things like graphics cards, switchable graphics on laptops and wireless hardware), and there's also this:

 

https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html (some of them are overblown, but from my experience a few of those statements are quite correct)

[doubleflower]

8 hours ago, SorryClaire said:

"But people still run core 2 duo on windows 10, why cant we run it on windows 11!!111!1!!1!!!"
 

we legitimately need a segment on what is planned obsolescence and whats not on Techquickie.

Yup, I think the word 'planned obsolescence' seems to have been thrown around and being overused by many people so much to the point of diluting the original meaning of the term itself

[Dameworth]

The thing I hate the most is processors like the Ryzen 5 1600 and related CPU's that they list as not supported even though they have TPM 2.0 and Secure Boot. 

[m9x3mos]

4 hours ago, Dameworth said:

The thing I hate the most is processors like the Ryzen 5 1600 and related CPU's that they list as not supported even though they have TPM 2.0 and Secure Boot. 

The reason for the choice of cpus as I understand it is the support of the processor for mbec. And processors that don't have that can see a large performance hit. 

[Maill]

Can't install W11 ? Too bad, you have 4 years to save some money for a new computer.

For real tho, you can't keep a pc forever and software can't keep compatibility forever aswell, that's why W11 is limited in compatibility, because they want to exploit new techs to improve the experience. I like my 3770K, but it is an old man now, don't have the punch it had few years ago because of software being more optimized for new techs.

 

On 9/30/2021 at 9:14 AM, MadmanRB said:

TPM is a joke, really it is, as the only thing it really does is stop keyloggers, which is something you can do inside the OS if you knew how.
It doesn't stop malware, or viruses or ransomware and as secure as a motorbike protected by a keychain.

I think you typed the wrong thing on Google when you search for that, because that's not what TPM do. Search again.

 

On 9/30/2021 at 9:14 AM, MadmanRB said:

If I were the Windows community I would let as many people know that this is a scam, and that there are alternatives that are not Macs.
Like I dunno... Linux's mint, it's free, easy to use and a 5-year-old can use it, it works for most hardware and if you don't need overpriced software like photoshop or games it's fine.

Yes, because everyone want to tinker for days their Linux to make all your hardware working. Don't get me wrong, Linux is great, but anything is plug and play, you need to configure all your things by yourself. Linux will never be desktop ready for the general public (even Torvalds agreeing with that), because you're f***** when things go wrong when you have 0 knowledge.

[Mnky313]

On 9/30/2021 at 3:14 AM, MadmanRB said:

I am predicting this now: Windows 11 will be the worst Microsoft OS since Vista and 8, and it's all because of 11's stupid requirements.
Really Microsoft what the hell are you thinking, cutting off all processors made before 2017 all based on stupid requirements no one asked for.

The blanket requirement for CPUs of X generation is ridiculous, I agree. You're telling me a low power dual core i3-8140U is perfectly fine but a threadripper 1950x isn't? It's clearly not a performance requirement.

However they also aren't stopping you from installing it on older hardware (though this is probably because they realize if they do someone will just find a workaround), just stopping you from 'being entitled for updates' which most likely can be bypassed through the registry if I had to guess.

On 9/30/2021 at 3:14 AM, MadmanRB said:

Really Microsoft what the hell are you thinking, cutting off all processors made before 2017 all based on stupid requirements no one asked for.
TPM is a joke, really it is, as the only thing it really does is stop keyloggers, which is something you can do inside the OS if you knew how.
It doesn't stop malware, or viruses or ransomware and as secure as a motorbike protected by a keychain.
And ask any Linux user how much security secure boot offers, hello on Linux now with secure boot, bite me Microsoft.

They're thinking that it'll force people to buy new computers which not only makes them more money for each windows license but also allows them to 'force' people to get hardware that allows for more data collection. It's more likely people who just want to browse the web or watch Netflix will buy a laptop rather than a full tower now and almost every new laptop has a webcam, microphone, fingerprint reader, etc.
Of course no one asked for it, they don't care what people want. What are you gonna do about it? If you need windows for work you're just gonna deal with it.

A lot of these 'security' devices are either completely useless or ways for companies to lock down their devices even more. Look at smartphones,

Apple's iCloud is promoted as a way to stop theft but they have done NOTHING to alert people of devices that they haven't used in years still being attached to an iCloud account. There are probably millions of devices that would work perfectly except apple has locked them down because someone forgot to remove it from their iCloud.

Samsung isn't any better, they don't even allow people in the US to unlock the bootloaders, why? Well they want you to believe it's security (and it partly is) but it's mostly because the carriers know that if you unlock the bootloader not only can you get around their bullshit locks of things like hotspot but it's also a lot easier to unlock the phone and allow you to use it on another carrier. You don't own anything you buy anymore, you might technically own it but good luck... If they end support for it you're done bud, have fun with a useless outdated brick.

On 9/30/2021 at 3:14 AM, MadmanRB said:

The only reason Microsoft is doing this is to sell people new computers, they are desperate for money and think doing this will lure people to new machines in fear of their current machines being obsolete, it's a scam and I will not stand for it and nether should you.
If I were the Windows community I would let as many people know that this is a scam, and that there are alternatives that are not Macs.

Bingo, they want money and data. This isn't a new thing but again, what are you gonna do about it? Microsoft knows millions of people have been using windows for decades and or need it for work, etc. It's like Apple, they can do whatever the fuck they please and people will still use it.

Linux is awesome for a lot of people, even non techies as long as you're basically only using the web (which to be fair a LOT of people are). It's getting better with software support but there's still no where near the back catalog of software like on windows.

On 9/30/2021 at 3:14 AM, MadmanRB said:

Like I dunno... Linux's mint, it's free, easy to use and a 5-year-old can use it, it works for most hardware and if you don't need overpriced software like photoshop or games it's fine.
Or sticking it to Microsoft and dualboot with Windows 10 and only use windows once every so often in protest.
Lets show Microsoft not to fuck around with its users.

There's the problem, tons of people rely on specific software for work. People don't like change, they'd rather deal with the minor inconveniences rather than spending time learning something different. Take a look at wireless headphones (ya know I had to bring bluetooth into this xD),
they are more expensive, often have lower sound quality (not always), consume more battery on the phone, have higher latency, have a battery that needs to be recharged every day, and on top of that will stop working after a few years because of the aforementioned battery. 
But people don't care, they'd rather deal with all that because look ma, no wires.

You can't expect normies to dual boot, I bet if you asked most people couldn't even tell you what an ISO is, let alone figure out how to install a second os and constantly switch between them when needed, they'd rather just deal with windows because that's where their software works.

IMO we are quickly descending into a dystopia where privacy is dead, companies practically rule the world and know everything about everyone and exactly how and where people are at all times. 
 

[GoodBytes]

As long as you have TPM 2.0 and Secure Boot supported system (and an SSD/HDD/eMMC that is bigger than 32GB, technically speaking), you can install Windows 11.
 

Microsoft is just telling you that, if you don't have a supported CPU:

1. You are on your on own, like Windows 10 users with unsupported CPUs (AMD, Intel). If you have crashes, facing security issues due to CPU flaw, or drivers issue, then you are also on your own. Don't blame Windows 11, is basically what MS is saying. The update won't be avail through WIndows Update, you'll need to manually do it.
    
2. Microsoft doesn't guaranty that you'll get all future updates as the CPU is unsupported. 
    

Only system without TPM 2.0 and Secure Boot are really out of luck in getting Windows 11.

 

So who is out from Windows 11:
Age old systems, like mine which is ~14 years old systems sporting a Core i7 900's, a CPU arch of 2009, and doesn't even have UEFI. If you check the web, many users could not even run Windows 10 on it, because BIOS had issues to even booting Windows 10 after setup due to a bug. System is too old for motherboard manufacture to issue any update.

 

For most people:

Nearly all, if not all, OEM systems have TPM 2.0 enabled by default, and to my knowledge, all TPM 2.0 system have Secure Boot. Now I am sure that there is that odd system somewhere that does something special.

 

As for DIY space, our space, then honestly, you should be reading all manuals, so that you can be sure that your system is configuring the system properly to your needs, and specs. Sorry, I didn't sound rude, or elitist. I don't blame anyone. I blame YouTubers who don't educate the users in doing so. They all essentially go "if it fits, it works! So simple!", Sure... "works", but potentially not properly configured. I get they are trying to encourage people to build their systems, but still. 

 

And this issue is one I complained before this TPM/SecureBoot story. For ages, basically since we had SATA-2, no one was saying that they need to set their SATA controller to AHCI before installing their OS, and not leave it to default to IDE emulation mode. Only in the past few years, motherboard manufactures set SATA Controller to AHCI mode by default. Big performance differences between the 2 modes. It is important to read the motherboard manual, and set things for your needs/configuration/hardware.

 

A small rant:
Now I do know that some motherboard manufactures in the DIY space, just doesn't give you the option to enable fTPM. But that is on reviewers, again, ignoring the UEFI. Maybe, instead of counting PS/2 ports, they should actually look at the UEFI, evaluate its ease of use, criticize their piss poor lazy explanations "FSB: <Auto/Default/Standard/[Value]>" --> Description: "Set the FSB value"...... What's the difference between "Auto", "Default" and "Standard"? What is FSB? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . I'll gladly purchase and pay more for a motherboard that has better explanations. To me, it means that the team who coded the UEFI/BIOS knows what they are doing, and not clueless, and not just grab whatever BIOS manufacture and Intel/AMD, put their skin, and slap it to their motherboard, and go "the user will figure it out... maybe we will learn from them what these things do! LOLz". And they need to ensure that all options that should be there, are there.

 

Win10 still has support:
That said, DIY space is tiny in the grand scheme of things, and DIY should be resourceful enough to figure out their issue, and fix it. If they can't, then Windows 10 got an extended support to 2025, PLUS will get DirectStorage technology when it will be ready, WSLg, and the new Store. Key Win11 features affecting each user group. By, 2025, there is a good chance that they'll upgrade before then.

 

 

*** The above reflects currently known information at the moment of writing. Things may change between now and Oct 5 or the general avail of Windows 11 early 2022. Don't kill me if the info is incorrect due to changes . I am doing my best to offer the most accurate info ***

[doubleflower]

6 hours ago, Mnky313 said:

The blanket requirement for CPUs of X generation is ridiculous, I agree. You're telling me a low power dual core i3-8140U is perfectly fine but a threadripper 1950x isn't? It's clearly not a performance requirement.

A lot of these 'security' devices are either completely useless or ways for companies to lock down their devices even more.
 

Not exactly performance requirements, but security.  IMHO Microsoft made a good step towards enhancing Windows security, but I think their approach is too underhanded and there are much better ways to improve Windows security, and forcing customers to buy new hardware is not the way to go and certainly will paint Microsoft in a very bad light (especially during the chip crunch).

 

If they really wanted to improve security they should seriously consider starting to depreciate or even remove some legacy code or features from Windows itself (or even run them in a sandbox if the enterprise market demanded it).  This may upset the enterprise/healthcare/government sectors that may rely on proprietary software, and I certainly applaud Microsoft long stance on backwards compatibility which itself also benefits the average consumer too.  The main issue is that their perpetual pursuit of backwards compatibility is going to be very unsustainable from the security perspective, especially when you consider that there is a sharp uptick in ransomware and cybersecurity attacks in recent years, with many attackers often using legacy Windows components (like the infamous PrintNightmare vulnerability) as an entry point.  Not to mention that trying to patch legacy code can be a huge pain especially the Windows Print Spooler has code dating back to very old versions of Windows NT.

 

Sure TPM and VBS features are helpful towards enhancing security, but it doesn't mean much when your OS is bogged down with lots of legacy code which means plenty of surface area for attackers to attack.  It's clearly evident that decades of technical debt has started to rear its ugly head and I think Microsoft should considering start transitioning some legacy components to something substantially more secure in the future.

[akio123008]

6 hours ago, Mnky313 said:

You're telling me a low power dual core i3-8140U is perfectly fine but a threadripper 1950x isn't? It's clearly not a performance requirement.

It runs just fine on my R5 1600.

 

Really I have no problem with W11 so far. I really don't see what the fuss is all about. To me it's pretty much like windows 10 with an updated skin. (a better skin in fact, especially the control panel/settings window is a HUGE improvement over that sh!t metro UI tablet-PC settings screen with borderless buttons from W10.)

[DANK_AS_gay]

On 9/30/2021 at 3:14 AM, MadmanRB said:

Windows 11 will be the worst Microsoft OS since Vista and 8, and it's all because of 11's stupid requirements.

This is interesting, Microsoft is trying to make Windows less bloated, and they want it to take advantage of the hardware better. It is hard to do that when you consider the fact that Windows 10 supports CPU's all the way back to Pentium 4s. I think the idea is to start fresh, as well as:

On 9/30/2021 at 3:41 AM, Stahlmann said:

W11 is there because the changes they want to make are too big to justify it as a W10 update, that's it.

Makes sense, and they needed a graphics/feel update, doesn't matter how much you update the looks of Windows 10, it will always feel kinda old, but if you update it graphically as well as mechanically, and release it as Windows 11, people will get excited and interested much more than just a GUI update to a pre-existing OS.

[Mnky313]

2 hours ago, akio123008 said:

It runs just fine on my R5 1600.

 

Really I have no problem with W11 so far. I really don't see what the fuss is all about. To me it's pretty much like windows 10 with an updated skin. (a better skin in fact, especially the control panel/settings window is a HUGE improvement over that sh!t metro UI tablet-PC settings screen with borderless buttons from W10.)

I had plenty of problems with my Surface Pro 2017 (7660u) but none with my main laptop (10900k). I'll probably try it again on the surface once the official release rolls around.

I agree, I really like the new design in windows 11 apart from some things (like the start menu being even more useless than windows 10 somehow... If you disable recent apps/files like I did you're left with nothing in it's place, not a smaller start menu but just blank space.... genius)

I also had WAY better stability on windows 11 than windows 10, I didn't have any program compatibility issues or even any crashes (this was the leaked dev build). I've had more bluescreens on this fresh install of 21H1 that I did a week ago than I did on Windows 11 for well over a month.

I don't agree with the sentiment that it brings no improvements, however it's the same situation that happened when going from windows 7 to 10. 10 brought more features and better support but was overall full of nonsense garbage and useless duplicate apps + even more telemetry.... Once people figured out how to remove the garbage windows 10 got to the point where unless you're running really old hardware I wouldn't even consider trying to run windows 7.

[WkdPaul]

* thread locked *

 

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