Fractal Torrent alternative's, and information about fans

[Ricotta Elmar]

yo guys,

i was surfing the web for a new case,

and since i am one of those guys that don't mess with water cooling,

im all air cooled focused the best i can,

the itx nr200p  didn't turn out well temprature wise,

 

i came across that i like, "fractal torrent", i like the design,

 

it is a expansive case,

it is a large case,

it don't have wasted vented holes like many other cases,

that have like 2-3 intake and 4 outake, because psu is at the bottom there will be barly any fan location there, and if there is it is pretty useless,

 

but thing is, the case is air cooled focus right ?

swapping the fans out is pointless as GN say becasue one pay for them , but they are loud like 50 dba witch is not my favorite thing,

it's 190 bucks, and it is a large case with just a tiny spot that is filled with hardware,

it is kind of sad, this case is so large one can fit in 2 atx boards as example....,

to be honnest i don't get it why fractal made the case so deep if it is a air focused case,

 

also if i might get the case,

i don't know what to do with the emptyness of the case,

i perfer compact cases where they are not so empty, but have good pasive air flow so it fill up the holes in the case,
i have 5950x and 3080 aorus xtreme,

 

do any of you know other good pc cases like torrent but smaller, less deep, less taller ?

meshify is nice but, it is to open, more outake than intake, it will suck in dust through open holes, i don't say torrent is dust free but it atleast keep as many dust outside as it can

[HM-2]

Corsair 4000D airflow? If you don't need any radiators the O11 Air Mini could work too.

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

How much of an improvement are you expecting? 

[DirectingGnu2]

Are you using the glass panel or the metal "mesh" one? I've been getting amazing results with the mesh one, strix 3090 and ryzen 5900x with a Noctua U12A, almost test bench temps.

[tkitch]

The Torrent is only 50DB if you decide to run the fans at 100% Speed, which there's absolutely no reason to do.

 

 

If you watch the slide I linked to, at 36DB (GN's standard testing noise level) it was the coolest running case they've reviewed.  This is what PWM is for, because running fans at 100% is stupid.

[Dogzilla07]

On 9/26/2021 at 12:24 PM, WesleyNL said:

swapping the fans out is pointless as GN say becasue one pay for them

From a pure performance and noise standpoint, It's not pointless to swap fans, for instance if you swapped to Phanteks T30-120, you'd get way less noise, for similar, or probably better performance then stock for Fractal Torrent.

 

But it would be expensive. pack of 3x T30-120 is 85 eur.

 

3x Phanteks T30-120 in the front would beat the stock 180x38 fans in noise-normalized testing, and that would probably be sufficient for the setup Maybe 1 more T30-120 on the bottom in one of the slots for the GPU, as intake as well, but it might not be necessary depending on the GPU card.

 

If however you want something more compact, but, the best airflow, the best temperatures, the least noise, with good dust filtration, there is only combination that pops out as best-buy + most fiscally responsible.

 

And that's Phanteks P400A with 3x Phanteks T30-120 in the front, and no back exhaust, 1x of the stock ones as back exhaust, or another T30-120 as back exhaust (all good options, just different flavours depending on budget, GPU, CPU cooler, etc, ...)

 

Why do i think this is the best of best option. P400A basic is not very expensive, and it's a top GamersNexus performer (the key here is get the cheapest case that GamersNexus approves, and slam the best fans in the world in it, the Phanteks T30-120). You could get any of the cases that GamersNexus approved if they're cheaper or you like the design more (Lian  Li Lancool Mesh II, Lian Li 215, P500A, Be Quiet! 500DX, Cooler Master NR600, NR400, Fractal Design Meshify 2 C, C, etc, ... doesn't matter).

 

All in all, price wise you'd end up about where the Fractal Torrent is, but with way less noise, for similar or slightly worse performance. And more importantly the Phanteks T30-120 are very high quality fans, that will last a long long time, and u can transfer them to different builds and different cases. They might expensive upfront, but if you divide their price, by the effective number of years you'll get out of them, they quickly shoot up to best value.

 

Also Phanteks is a Dutch company xD

[thrasher_565]

12 hours ago, Dogzilla07 said:

From a pure performance and noise standpoint, It's not pointless to swap fans, for instance if you swapped to Phanteks T30-120, you'd get way less noise, for similar, or probably better performance then stock for Fractal Torrent.

 

But it would be expensive. pack of 3x T30-120 is 85 eur.

 

3x Phanteks T30-120 in the front would beat the stock 180x38 fans in noise-normalized testing, and that would probably be sufficient for the setup Maybe 1 more T30-120 on the bottom in one of the slots for the GPU, as intake as well, but it might not be necessary depending on the GPU card.

 

If however you want something more compact, but, the best airflow, the best temperatures, the least noise, with good dust filtration, there is only combination that pops out as best-buy + most fiscally responsible.

 

And that's Phanteks P400A with 3x Phanteks T30-120 in the front, and no back exhaust, 1x of the stock ones as back exhaust, or another T30-120 as back exhaust (all good options, just different flavours depending on budget, GPU, CPU cooler, etc, ...)

 

Why do i think this is the best of best option. P400A basic is not very expensive, and it's a top GamersNexus performer (the key here is get the cheapest case that GamersNexus approves, and slam the best fans in the world in it, the Phanteks T30-120). You could get any of the cases that GamersNexus approved if they're cheaper or you like the design more (Lian  Li Lancool Mesh II, Lian Li 215, P500A, Be Quiet! 500DX, Cooler Master NR600, NR400, Fractal Design Meshify 2 C, C, etc, ... doesn't matter).

 

All in all, price wise you'd end up about where the Fractal Torrent is, but with way less noise, for similar or slightly worse performance. And more importantly the Phanteks T30-120 are very high quality fans, that will last a long long time, and u can transfer them to different builds and different cases. They might expensive upfront, but if you divide their price, by the effective number of years you'll get out of them, they quickly shoot up to best value.

 

Also Phanteks is a Dutch company xD

whats the Phanteks T30-120 rated for hours wise? i have some be quiet fans that clame can do 300.000 hours...

 

i also have some Gelid fans they last along time too

 

my darkside gentle typhoons should last a long time too and only cost $20 can...

Edited October 1, 2021 by thrasher_565

[tkitch]

12 hours ago, Dogzilla07 said:

From a pure performance and noise standpoint, It's not pointless to swap fans, for instance if you swapped to Phanteks T30-120, you'd get way less noise, for similar, or probably better performance then stock for Fractal Torrent.

you're trying to say that the 67 cfm of a Phanteks 120mm will beat the 157 cfm of the Torrent's 180's?

 

I don't believe you.  At all.

 

Also, GN covered it in their review, at about 18:30.  It worked fine, but why would you ever ditch 100$ in fans from your case, just to spend another 100$ on fans that don't cool as well?

[Dogzilla07]

7 hours ago, tkitch said:

you're trying to say that the 67 cfm of a Phanteks 120mm will beat the 157 cfm of the Torrent's 180's?

 

I don't believe you.  At all.

Absolutely, am saying, and I'm correct, In a proper methodology noise-normalized test the Phanteks will deliver slightly better performance for vastly reduced noise, or quite better performance for the same noise.

 

First of all official numbers between different companies are not comperable, there is no standardization, they use different tools, in different ways, and the numbers are made on basically a test-bench. Completely useless for any real world comparison.

 

Secondly, even if we are satisfied that numbers are comparable (3rd party testing), you cannot compare top speed results, you would need to compare noise-normalized results between the Fractal 180mm and the Phanteks 120mm, everything else is null. It is imperative that it is noise-normalized and noise-normalized only, it cannot be RPM-normalized due to the differences in size and shape.

 

Thirdly, even after this CFM in free-flow air is irrelevant. Any obstruction is still an obstruction, and a fan with better static pressure and lower CFM, will produce better CFM for lower noise through obstructions. Case and point, a front panel filter/mesh is a big enough obstructions, that the actual tangible data from the Torrent 180 fans is much closer to same from T30-120 in same use scenarion, and setup, and devices measuring noise/performance.

 

You'd ditch it, because money is not a problem for you, and you want the best performance, for the least noise, and longer longevity of the fans, which means less money spent divided over the years the fans are used ?

[Dogzilla07]

7 hours ago, thrasher_565 said:

whats the Phanteks T30-120 rated for hours wise? i have some be quiet fans that clame can do 300.000 hours...

 

i also have some Gelid fans they last along time too

 

my darkside gentle typhoons should last a long time too and only cost $20 can...

Same as Noctua 150,000, and on paper second only to the Be Quiet! Silent Wings 3 you've mentioned, However the bearing and motor of the T30-120 is superior, and on paper should last longer with no noise change), however in practice it should be very similar SW3 vs T30-120. (You're looking at 5-10 years of unchanged behaviour, with up to 15/20 years possible).

 

The point is Phanteks T30-120 offers better performance for lower noise than Be Quiet Silent Wings 3. And it does all of that at 300-500RPM higher speeds than the Be Quiet! due to LCP material used. It's simply a superior product in every way (Superior fabrication material, superior tolerances for tip clearance, superior motor design, superior bearing, etc, ...) Again don't get me wrong Be Quiet's motor is very good, together with Noctua SSO2 it shares a close 2nd place to the Sunon vapo Maglev used in Phanteks.

 

Darkside GT have horrible noise-normalized performance (in general, and specifically because of the bearing whine), and we're only talking 10 euros more between them and Phanteks (in Europe).

 

We've got irrefutable (in quality), pristine methodology reviews showing Noctua A12x25 beating Be Quiet! Silent Wings 3 in every way possible. And the same showing Phanteks T30-120 beating the Noctua A12x25.

[tkitch]

4 hours ago, Dogzilla07 said:

Absolutely, am saying, and I'm correct, In a proper methodology noise-normalized test the Phanteks will deliver slightly better performance for vastly reduced noise, or quite better performance for the same noise.

 

First of all official numbers between different companies are not comperable, there is no standardization, they use different tools, in different ways, and the numbers are made on basically a test-bench. Completely useless for any real world comparison.

 

Secondly, even if we are satisfied that numbers are comparable (3rd party testing), you cannot compare top speed results, you would need to compare noise-normalized results between the Fractal 180mm and the Phanteks 120mm, everything else is null. It is imperative that it is noise-normalized and noise-normalized only, it cannot be RPM-normalized due to the differences in size and shape.

 

Thirdly, even after this CFM in free-flow air is irrelevant. Any obstruction is still an obstruction, and a fan with better static pressure and lower CFM, will produce better CFM for lower noise through obstructions. Case and point, a front panel filter/mesh is a big enough obstructions, that the actual tangible data from the Torrent 180 fans is much closer to same from T30-120 in same use scenarion, and setup, and devices measuring noise/performance.

 

You'd ditch it, because money is not a problem for you, and you want the best performance, for the least noise, and longer longevity of the fans, which means less money spent divided over the years the fans are used ?

You realize you're making arguments that work against the fans you're suggesting?

Higher Pressure fans?

The Fractal 180's are rated for:  0.4-2.26mm H2O (depending on speed)
The Phanteks 120's are rated at:  0.13mm H2O 

The Torrent with all 5 stock fans hit the "normalized" 36db level in GN testing at 47% fan speed.  They go down to 25%, if you still want quieter.  

 

No, I don't buy your arguments here, at all.  There's 0 logical reason those 120's will outperform the 180's the case comes with, except for raw noise floor, which after a certain point is ridiculous.

[Ricotta Elmar]

so do Phanteks T30-120 have buzzing humming noice? then its a no go because bequiet do the same, also if airflow go down 1 path it probaly cools way beter that crossing,

as i explained, i have meshify s2 tg, i

bet my intake air dissapears before it even reach because i have 3 top exhaust and 1 back exhaust and 2 front intake and this case is so open for just 2 intakes,

when playing a shit game called Life is Feudal: Forest Village, with undervolted cpu on pbo advanced negative 15 and gpu lowered by 200 mhz, i still hit the 80's on max case/cpu fans speeds ,

i don't know what i am doing wrong ,

i even removed the filters,

and it dont even run full screen it runs 16:9 on my oddessy g9 at 120fps , screen is not even in oc mode,

 

i have a aorus 3080 xtreme  and 5950x with a dark rock pro 4, along with 6 be-quiet silent wings 3 pwm high speed but they don't do the job well i think,

[Dogzilla07]

4 hours ago, tkitch said:

The Fractal 180's are rated for:  0.4-2.26mm H2O (depending on speed)
The Phanteks 120's are rated at:  0.13mm H2O 

The Phanteks numbers are expressed as a different metric, inches, instead of mm for pete's sake, they need to be converted first, ...

 

And for which speed did you paste the results ?. Again you're wrong, on multiple counts as I've said already, u cannot compare measurements from different official sites at different speed, without a 3rd party running noise-normalized tests.

 

for 36dB the Torrent are spinning at 600 RPM, and it's a miracle if they're punching over 1mm H2O, while picking out T30-120 data from 2 other high quality reviews, I would expect the Phanteks T30-120 to be doing 1300-1800RPM when noise-normalized to 36dB of GamersNexus. (static pressure and CFM does not scale 1:1, and when going downwards to lower speeds there's a bigger loss, as the fan leaves it's "sweet-spot". You really need the P/Q graph of a fan, to get a general idea about it (or proper testing).

 

As for the mmH2O from T30-120 at that (36dB GN), this is the largest guess from me, but assuming it was noise-normalized for the Torrent, 1.5mmH20 is very very realistic, and up to 2mmH20 quite plausible.

 

It's absolutely 100% logical once you understand basic things of how marketing works, and basic understanding of fluid dynamics, and very basic physics (what constraints 180/200 fans bring compared to 120). Just in general, how the air behaves in and around the case, while being heated/cooled, and sweetspots for size/length/width/depth, etc, ....

[Dogzilla07]

 

1 hour ago, WesleyNL said:

so do Phanteks T30-120 have buzzing humming noice? then its a no go because bequiet do the same, also if airflow go down 1 path it probaly cools way beter that crossing,

No, they do not have buzzing humming noise, they do not use the same motor as be quiet!, Phanteks use maglev (magnetic levation) assisted bearing.

 

As for your setup, exhaust setup can work, but it produces more dust, and is unnecessary unless you've got a specific case. And yes a high static pressure set of fans in the front as intake, (3x120mm ideally) and at most 1 exhaust at the back (best option), or furthest back on the top of the case, is all you need, and is the optimal setup.

 

See for filters this is what i mean, why going Phanteks T30-120 is so good, its static pressure is so good for the noise, the filter drops their performance much less than 99% of other fans. And additionally for the aspect of the huge size of the case, again high static pressure fans help with as well.

 

SW3 are decent fans, noise performance worse than Phanteks, but it shouldn't be as bad as you're having it. though i do have to say 80c degrees with 5950x is just fine, it's well within the optimal temperature for that CPU.

 

All in all, Phanteks T30-120 are gonna be more silent for more performance, but i don't think it's gonna be worth it to replace SW3s unless you really can't stand that humming noise anymore. or if you additionally want to use filters.

 

Your best bet is to just try a simple 3 SW3 front, 1 SW3 back, and keep the front the same (I'm assuming you removed the foam, and the front mesh is the only filter ?, or do you run the setup with whole front mesh side removed maybe ?

[Ricotta Elmar]

Thing is guys , the case i use is a fractal meshify s2 , abit beaten up but ok,

 

i use 6 140 silent wings 3 high speed 1600rpm i beleve 

 

I turned pbo in bios to advanced > curve > negative 15, 

my gpu with msi after\burner is clocked 200mhz lower to reduce temp,

 

i still hit the 80 degree, i removed dust filters yet it don’t  improve on gaming longer than 1 hour , it just takes longer to reach the 80 degree, 

 

my fan setup is as follows, 

front intake x2, top exhaust x3 back exhaust x1

cpu cooler is a dark rock pro 4, 

 

somehow i think i have done something wrong,

also i think the airflow sucks because the 2 fronts vs 4 outake is a no go, the cool air from intake gets sucked out by the top fans before it even reach the hardware, the iutake is actualy bad, because it suck air inside through all open spots, even if it have to suck it via the psu since psu is fanless/hybrid so that hot air gets also sucked inside, 

 

a thing that bothers me to is the buzzing/humming sound these fans make , they arnt that “quiet’ listen to the attachment,

it might be the case that cause it because this case have those rails for 120mm fans witch obstruct ,

because when i hold the bottom front intake the sound is way less,

and the top front is way more quiet,

 by taping off those rails i also block more intake but it reduce the humming, i kind off think 140mm fans are useless in a case with rails for 120mm

Sound.mp3

[thrasher_565]

6 hours ago, WesleyNL said:

Thing is guys , the case i use is a fractal meshify s2 , abit beaten up but ok,

 

i use 6 140 silent wings 3 high speed 1600rpm i beleve 

 

I turned pbo in bios to advanced > curve > negative 15, 

my gpu with msi after\burner is clocked 200mhz lower to reduce temp,

 

i still hit the 80 degree, i removed dust filters yet it don’t  improve on gaming longer than 1 hour , it just takes longer to reach the 80 degree, 

 

my fan setup is as follows, 

front intake x2, top exhaust x3 back exhaust x1

cpu cooler is a dark rock pro 4, 

 

somehow i think i have done something wrong,

also i think the airflow sucks because the 2 fronts vs 4 outake is a no go, the cool air from intake gets sucked out by the top fans before it even reach the hardware, the iutake is actualy bad, because it suck air inside through all open spots, even if it have to suck it via the psu since psu is fanless/hybrid so that hot air gets also sucked inside, 

 

a thing that bothers me to is the buzzing/humming sound these fans make , they arnt that “quiet’ listen to the attachment,

it might be the case that cause it because this case have those rails for 120mm fans witch obstruct ,

because when i hold the bottom front intake the sound is way less,

and the top front is way more quiet,

 by taping off those rails i also block more intake but it reduce the humming, i kind off think 140mm fans are useless in a case with rails for 120mm

Sound.mp3 349.2 kB · 0 downloads

we need a pic to see how everything is set up.

[Ricotta Elmar]

11 hours ago, thrasher_565 said:

we need a pic to see how everything is set up.

 

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

Be quiet fans don't push alot of air. They're just quiet fans. 

 

Anyways 80*C on air with a a 5950x is extremely good. What are you expecting to achieve? Please remember this is a near 200w 16 core chip. 

[thrasher_565]

12 minutes ago, WesleyNL said:

 

ok so what is the case? whats the parts inside? the front midel fan dose not much for the gpu. what is the ambent temp? what is your gpu temp and cpu temp?

[Ricotta Elmar]

4 hours ago, Kinda Bottlenecked said:

Be quiet fans don't push alot of air. They're just quiet fans. 

 

Anyways 80*C on air with a a 5950x is extremely good. What are you expecting to achieve? Please remember this is a near 200w 16 core chip. 

they are silent wings 3 140 high speed witch are 1600 rpm max

 

witch fans shjould i use ? witch are not loud but have good airflow

atleast lower temps, it is not that i am fully use the cpu, for the game i play it is like 10-15% loaded

[Ricotta Elmar]

4 hours ago, thrasher_565 said:

ok so what is the case? whats the parts inside? the front midel fan dose not much for the gpu. what is the ambent temp? what is your gpu temp and cpu temp?

i beleve i said it is a meshify s2 , with filters taken off for most air intake right ?

my room, abt 19-22c, i mostly have my door open to cool the room

i'll measure the temp later once more and screenshot it , i am on mobile atm and not home,

[thrasher_565]

6 hours ago, WesleyNL said:

i beleve i said it is a meshify s2 , with filters taken off for most air intake right ?

my room, abt 19-22c, i mostly have my door open to cool the room

i'll measure the temp later once more and screenshot it , i am on mobile atm and not home,

ok so the problem is the gpu hits 80 degrees? or cpu hits 80 degrees? with all the diehard fans of the meshify s2 they will say its the best air flow case money can buy...so case is fine.

 

imo be quiet fans dont push much air but could be wrong but i dont think that's the problem.

 

there are better cpu coolers for air cooling then the bequiet so there that.

 

as for cooling the gpu ied move the middle front fan down to the bottom or if you have a top fan add it to the front. you dont need any top fans.

and if you can add fans on top of the psu housing. other than that i dont no.

 

80 degrees with a 3080 and an 5950x dose not sound bad imo. my 1080 hits 75ish degrees not oc so there's that. althow i have no other fans in my case other then my cpu fans running at 800 rpm... but i have a way overkill noctua d15 to cool my 6600k....

Edited October 4, 2021 by thrasher_565

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

6 hours ago, WesleyNL said:

they are silent wings 3 140 high speed witch are 1600 rpm max

 

witch fans shjould i use ? witch are not loud but have good airflow

atleast lower temps, it is not that i am fully use the cpu, for the game i play it is like 10-15% loaded

 

Phanteks t30 as said. Next step up would be high rpm server grade fans which are loud. 

 

With the 5950x on stock boost, the cpu would overvolt itself to achieve the high clock speed on 1-2 cores when at low utilization like you have. This means only a smaller surface area of the die is running hot and your cooler will not be able to cool such a small surface area efficiently. 

 

This is the same on my 5900x. On low utilization I will observe temps of max 86*C but with 100% utilization I will have 81*C as my max temp. You will find this effect more extreme on the 5800x. 

 

As long as you are not hitting 90*C the cpu is performing fine. You can try adjusting pbo if you want lower temps. 

[tkitch]

18 hours ago, WesleyNL said:

they are silent wings 3 140 high speed witch are 1600 rpm max

You need to look at fan specs.

Silent wings 3 140mm are only 60 cfm at full speed fans.  That's /really/ low for a 140mm.

 

Also, you've got an intake fan slot on the front of the case.  Move a fan from the top down there.  

[Ricotta Elmar]

On 10/3/2021 at 4:54 PM, thrasher_565 said:

ok so what is the case? whats the parts inside? the front midel fan dose not much for the gpu. what is the ambent temp? what is your gpu temp and cpu temp?

here are the tempratures when i play Life is Feudal: Forest Village,