EU proposes law to generalize charging cables

[porina]

10 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

If this was law in 2011, would Apple have been allowed to use the Lightning connector, which by that point was legitimately far superior to Micro USB?

These moves don't appear from nowhere. Companies have the opportunity to provide feedback and try to steer it as they desire. Had this happened earlier, I'd argue at worse Apple would lose that single selling point over then USB offerings, but we may have something better than C today.

 

8 minutes ago, Spindel said:

Yeah and 640k of ram should be enough for anybody too. 

Note that C is a connector standard, not a data or power standard itself. Those can continue to grow up to whatever physical limits there may eventually be.

[Rameares]

Consumer electronic should be provided with the correct rated charging equipment. Just because the device and charger are the same physical connector does not mean they are compatible.

 

I'm sure less savy consumers will be thrilled when they fried their $1000 smart phone.

[Ydfhlx]

3 hours ago, manikyath said:

this has been going on in the EU ever since it was a whole fuss about nokia's "new" thinner charging jack.

Exactly. If them manage to make USB-C obligatory this would kill innovation, since you couldn't put a new better one.

[porina]

23 minutes ago, Rameares said:

Consumer electronic should be provided with the correct rated charging equipment. Just because the device and charger are the same physical connector does not mean they are compatible.

Standards exist so that parts meeting that standard will be interoperable. That's the whole point of USB. 

[Doobeedoo]

Yeah can we finally start seeing USB C ONLY everywhere already. Hopefully we see next gen mobos have more C ports in general.

The USB-C Power Delivery of 240W will be amazing! 

[Beerzerker]

1 hour ago, Arika S said:

i think they're referring to wall warts which i absolutely agree with, I struggle to think that there are people that don't have at least one laying around, or would at least have a PC that they can use it charge it from. Pretty sure we're at a stage where we don't need wall warts for every single new device.

 

i personally have a bag of maybe 15+ wall warts that i have been collecting over many years because there is no convenient e-waste disposal close to me

I get your point but not every situation for everyone is that convenient.

Go on a trip somewhere you may or may not have a lamp or whatever there is in the room that would charge it or may not be working at the time you're there. I know that's a common thing now for rooms to have but still....

And what if your machine is down from a defective PSU, lightning hit it and it's fried.... I mean there should be some allowance for an alternative way to charge stuff.
BTW as an example I had an external HDD to get knocked out by lightning a few weeks ago during a bad storm - Wasn't turned on and luckily it wasn't plugged into the machine via it's USB port or I may have had a dead system on my hands. Funny thing is the drive itself inside the case still works, it damaged the little circuit board that's in it's encasement but nothing else was hurt, even it's little PSU/"Wall Wart" is still working fine.

TBH I'd rather have the charger than not.

[whispous]

Apple will just supply a tiny little adapter, C-to-Lightning.

 

On another note, I actually agree that standardized connectors DO harm innovation. This was evident when all non-apple smartphones used Micro USB, an AWFUL connector by modern standards. If Apple had had it forced upon the iPhone, it would have removed the choice to go with an iPhone for the (at the time) vastly superior lightning connector.

 

Nowadays, Type C is excellent. High speed, fast charging and a robust shape and build are top notch.

 

But forcing it as a standard will entrench it for longer than if companies were trying to one-up each other on build quality and ability - it's wonderful right now, and apple should definitely be made to provide an adapter/add it to the iPhone directly, but in a few years we will probably have changed what we want from such a connection and will need a new one - as it stands now, wireless charging is not a green option due to energy wastage.

[mr moose]

8 minutes ago, whispous said:

Apple will just supply a tiny little adapter, C-to-Lightning.

 

On another note, I actually agree that standardized connectors DO harm innovation. This was evident when all non-apple smartphones used Micro USB, an AWFUL connector by modern standards. If Apple had had it forced upon the iPhone, it would have removed the choice to go with an iPhone for the (at the time) vastly superior lightning connector.

 

Nowadays, Type C is excellent. High speed, fast charging and a robust shape and build are top notch.

 

But forcing it as a standard will entrench it for longer than if companies were trying to one-up each other on build quality and ability - it's wonderful right now, and apple should definitely be made to provide an adapter/add it to the iPhone directly, but in a few years we will probably have changed what we want from such a connection and will need a new one - as it stands now, wireless charging is not a green option due to energy wastage.

 

I th9ink the question about slowing innovation is a secondary one.  I don't think it is smart for any government to tell a business how it must make it's products. So long as those products are not anti consumer by design (you know all the normal anti consumer stuff).  If they are going to mandate anything for apple it should be that they have to sell all the parts required to keep the phone working.  None of this "apple controls what gets fixed and by who" business.    In other words, mandate what will make a difference to waste, The EU seems to be really good at picking fights that justify it's existence,  not so much good at solving real problems.

 

 

[CarlBar]

7 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

I th9ink the question about slowing innovation is a secondary one.  I don't think it is smart for any government to tell a business how it must make it's products. So long as those products are not anti consumer by design (you know all the normal anti consumer stuff).  If they are going to mandate anything for apple it should be that they have to sell all the parts required to keep the phone working.  None of this "apple controls what gets fixed and by who" business.    In other words, mandate what will make a difference to waste, The EU seems to be really good at picking fights that justify it's existence,  not so much good at solving real problems.

 

 

 

 

1. Catalytic converters. To name one existing example of governments dictating to companies how they make their products.

 

2. There's limits to what the EU can do without making things incredibly difficult for it's citizens, (either through product issues, or just through added expense), and thats not something it ca get away with politically speaking. Mandating USB-C charging isn't too rough, apples the only real loser in the market anymore. Everyone else is allready doing it so the vast majority of people have chargers or charger alternatives available.

 

26 minutes ago, whispous said:

Apple will just supply a tiny little adapter, C-to-Lightning.

 

Unless it's changed since the early proposals it requires the USB-C comparability on the device, not through some adaptor.

[n0stalghia]

Finally. Super annoying that I have to carry two different chargers for my iPhone and iPad.

 

While we're at it, please also make a USB-C Apple Watch cable, so I can carry only one block, thanks

[mr moose]

4 minutes ago, CarlBar said:

 

 

1. Catalytic converters. To name one existing example of governments dictating to companies how they make their products.

Regulating products on the grounds of safety  comes under "anti consumer" exemption for said statement.    We can't just let companies make dangerous products that kill people slowly.

 

4 minutes ago, CarlBar said:

2. There's limits to what the EU can do without making things incredibly difficult for it's citizens, (either through product issues, or just through added expense), and thats not something it ca get away with politically speaking. Mandating USB-C charging isn't too rough, apples the only real loser in the market anymore. Everyone else is allready doing it so the vast majority of people have chargers or charger alternatives available.

Hence why I said they pick battles that legitimize their existence.  Half of what they propose and legislate seems to be virtue signalling more than fixing any real world problem. 

 

 

[Brooksie359]

4 hours ago, Elisis said:

I mean, it's not. This doesn't prevent the USB consortium, nor any other kind of electromechanical conglomerate from operating. There is nothing that suggests that if a better connector is ratified, governments won't move to that.

The problem is that it essentially stops companies wanting to create a new type of connector as it is essentially not usable. I mean you won't see the situation where multiple different competing standards come out and if you do one of them gets screwed by this law. 

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, Brooksie359 said:

The problem is that it essentially stops companies wanting to create a new type of connector as it is essentially not usable. I mean you won't see the situation where multiple different competing standards come out and if you do one of them gets screwed by this law. 

This is true,  also if a connector is mandated, then changing that connector for any reason undermines the argument for the mandate in the first place. As we would then have a hole new range of phones that don;t work with the old plug.   

 

Besides, there are essentially only two connectors on the market anyway so it's like taking a huge musical with only two songs and arguing that they should be the same song because it will save on Video space.      A completely wasted law that does very little to effect the underlying problems it sets out to solve.

 

 

[IPD]

This doesn't stifle innovation.  There are plenty of times that a government has intervened to make a ruling, and the industry adapts.  Digital TV signal was another one.  The migration to digital was already glacial and pushed back several times--without the government stepping in...it NEVER happens.

 

Not saying it's right or wrong.  Just that there are times when things won't change without the intervention.  And as far as 1 charging standard, I'm all for it.  Might not be a problem for most cell phones at this point (other than Apple), but there are far too many consumer goods that are still using other standards.  My Sennheiser PXC550-II use a micro-USB, for pete's sake!  And those are virtually brand new.  Same with my Altec-Lansing LifeJacket Jolt BT speakers; micro-USB.

 

Not only will this unify charging cords, but it will eventually force USB-A out of the market--which is long overdue.  As long as usb-micro is still a thing, USB-A receptacles will exist--as all those cords have that plug on the other end.  And I for one would welcome having a 110v charging plug with 4+ USB-C outlets; which I'm not sure even is a thing currently.

 

...Now if we could just get Seagate and WD to stop using USB-micro-B>USB-A, and go full USB-C>USB-C on their cords....

[Zodiark1593]

23 minutes ago, IPD said:

This doesn't stifle innovation.  There are plenty of times that a government has intervened to make a ruling, and the industry adapts.  Digital TV signal was another one.  The migration to digital was already glacial and pushed back several times--without the government stepping in...it NEVER happens.

 

Not saying it's right or wrong.  Just that there are times when things won't change without the intervention.  And as far as 1 charging standard, I'm all for it.  Might not be a problem for most cell phones at this point (other than Apple), but there are far too many consumer goods that are still using other standards.  My Sennheiser PXC550-II use a micro-USB, for pete's sake!  And those are virtually brand new.  Same with my Altec-Lansing LifeJacket Jolt BT speakers; micro-USB.

 

Not only will this unify charging cords, but it will eventually force USB-A out of the market--which is long overdue.  As long as usb-micro is still a thing, USB-A receptacles will exist--as all those cords have that plug on the other end.  And I for one would welcome having a 110v charging plug with 4+ USB-C outlets; which I'm not sure even is a thing currently.

 

...Now if we could just get Seagate and WD to stop using USB-micro-B>USB-A, and go full USB-C>USB-C on their cords....

I don’t think changing of standards requires a law. 
 

Albeit slowly, there are numerous standards that have been entirely phased naturally without government intervention. The Serial and Parallel ports. PS/2 hung around for awhile as well before eventually dying off entirely. The floppy disc in all it’s variants have similarly succumbed, and optical media for bulk data storage is also (or has) drawing its last breath. Mini USB was killed fairly swiftly as well. 
 

Even the dark ages of everyone and their dog having their own charging standard (late 90s, early 00’s devices) has gone by the wayside without outside intervention, with only Apple as the common outlier. 
 

If anything, the EU legislation simply needs to exercise some bloody patience and let things play out. Maybe more meaningful legislation would involve establishing a minimum durability standard of cables. 

[Spindel]

1 minute ago, Zodiark1593 said:

I don’t think changing of standards requires a law. 
 

Albeit slowly, there are numerous standards that have been entirely phased naturally without government intervention. The Serial and Parallel ports. PS/2 hung around for awhile as well before eventually dying off entirely. The floppy disc in all it’s variants have similarly succumbed, and optical media for bulk data storage is also (or has) drawing its last breath. Mini USB was killed fairly swiftly as well. 
 

Even the dark ages of everyone and their dog having their own charging standard (late 90s, early 00’s devices) has gone by the wayside without outside intervention, with only Apple as the common outlier. 
 

If anything, the EU legislation simply needs to exercise some bloody patience and let things play out. Maybe more meaningful legislation would involve establishing a minimum durability standard of cables. 

A better law would be to outlaw that stuff like phones comes with a cable or power brick at all and the costumer can decide to buy a new one if they don't have what is required at home. 

 

I for one as an iPhone user and iPad user have multiple of everything and as long as the devices stick to lightning port I won't need power brick or coord for anything I have (still using a 10 year old power brick to charge my phone and hav multiple new ones still in boxes). 

[Cyberspirit]

7 hours ago, Spindel said:

Even better with the old Ericsson charger (pic below).

Nooo! I have tried so hard to erase that vile thing from my memory.

[saltycaramel]

I read smartwatches are exempt in the proposal, for technical reasons and them being small.

 

See, we’re already back to multiple cables, that’s why I always say device-side mandated usb-c is dumb.

 

Cue the “one more standard” xkcd strip.

[poochyena]

9 hours ago, porina said:

Other than Apple, haven't the mobile and associated companies already more or less gone this direction?

yes, specifically because of legislation like this. Apple decided to try to skirt around old cable laws but these new laws will be more strict.

 

7 hours ago, Video Beagle said:

Other than governments move at glacial paces. We don't need governments getting in the way of innovation. Standards bodies work out interconnectivity agreements and the market decides what technologies thrive or die.

Its a charging cable, what innovation?

[poochyena]

6 hours ago, Spindel said:

Yeah and 640k of ram should be enough for anybody too. 

Our current audio jack cable was designed in the 1950s, 70 years ago, with the bigger size developed in the 1800s. I think usb c can manage to stick around for at least another decade.

[saltycaramel]

7 minutes ago, poochyena said:

Its a charging cable, what innovation?

 

Form factor innovation?

Ingress protection innovation?

Security against cable-based surveillance hacking tools?

[akio123008]

It surprises me how many people here appear to think this is a good idea?

 

Forcing companies to use a certain connector is just ridiculous.

 

Look people, I understand you like USB-C (so do I), and I understand that technically speaking it's a fine standard that can probably last for decades. It's a good design. That's not the point. It's not about the technical aspects ffs.

 

It's about the fact that you're forcing companies to use a certain design (which is in this case completely unrelated to the health and safety of the population). Like do you even realise how dumb that is? Imagine you designed a product and you're not even allowed to put the connector on that you like.

[Quackers101]

what annoys me with USB C, is that it will be hell as annoying when you add 100's of different types and operations of the USB C and between newer or older USB C ports or cables.

 

It's great to make more of a standard, but that shouldn't disprove other types. And that one can also send a report of others to be approved that may be shown through testing to be better (both in rating and durability and showing versions). That one should be allowed to request other types or to update the standard. Only that they need more justifcation for it and hopefully not for every device to have this. (lower powered devices to medium to higher powered devices).

[StDragon]

USB-C would be the logical choice for something universal. But if you want robustness and ease of use, the Lightning connector is far superior. It's also easier to clean out the pocket lint from the port too (use a wooden or plastic toothpick). But well, Apple is too much of a cheap bastard to give the industry any open standards for free...

The big concern is legislating a specific standard; as that tends to be baked into the future thus stifling innovation. What SHOULD occur is some ISO standard where every few generations or so, the entire industry adopts one universal standard. This way, innovation can occur while keeping the entire industry in lock-step with each other regarding universal charging.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

32 minutes ago, StDragon said:

USB-C would be the logical choice for something universal. But if you want robustness and ease of use, the Lightning connector is far superior. It's also easier to clean out the pocket lint from the port too (use a wooden or plastic toothpick). But well, Apple is too much of a cheap bastard to give the industry any open standards for free...

The big concern is legislating a specific standard; as that tends to be baked into the future thus stifling innovation. What SHOULD occur is some ISO standard where every few generations or so, the entire industry adopts one universal standard. This way, innovation can occur while keeping the entire industry in lock-step with each other regarding universal charging.

The thing about lightning is that it sucks. Its a usb 2 cable, and with usb4 being a thing(ish) now, its behind by a factor of 9 right now, 480mbps on usb2, 40gbps on usb4.

Its a good choice, but only half a gbps, thats a pita.