EU proposes law to generalize charging cables

[Venson]

Summary

Today (23.09.2021) the European Kommision will propose a law that forces all manufactures of Cellphones, Tablets, Cameras, Headphones and gaming consoles to use the USB-C standard for charging. The proposal aims to help consumers to reduce waste and also includes a section that forces all manufactures to exclude chargers for all products. It aims to reduce electronic waste by 980Tonnes pa.

 

 

My thoughts

This has been long overdue and I hate to see devices that still use mirco usb.

 

Sources

EU führt einheitliches Ladekabel für Handys ein - Schlappe für Apple - Wirtschaft - SZ.de (sueddeutsche.de)

[Techstorm970]

I really like this, aside from the gaming consoles.  They're probably asking too much when it comes to gaming consoles, since the newest XBOX and Play Stations remain high-powered.

[Oshino Shinobu]

Mixed feelings on this. Yes, it would be a good thing if everything adopted the same standard cable, but does it justify a law to enforce it?

 

I guess the waste justification is the main point though and the universal connector is just a good side effect. 

[Rameares]

7 minutes ago, Techstorm970 said:

I really like this, aside from the gaming consoles.  They're probably asking too much when it comes to gaming consoles, since the newest XBOX and Play Stations remain high-powered.

I think they mean portable consoles!

[porina]

Other than Apple, haven't the mobile and associated companies already more or less gone this direction? I haven't bought any new accessories recently so what I have is a mix of mini-USB, micro-USB, and USB-C depending on age.

 

20 minutes ago, Techstorm970 said:

I really like this, aside from the gaming consoles.  They're probably asking too much when it comes to gaming consoles, since the newest XBOX and Play Stations remain high-powered.

"for charging" so not powering consoles, but probably the controllers. I don't have either current gen model, what do they use?

[Levent]

Havent they tried this before? I swear I remember seeing this numerous times before in LTT forums.

[manikyath]

one word:

 

Quote

AGAIN.

 

this has been going on in the EU ever since it was a whole fuss about nokia's "new" thinner charging jack.

[Elisis]

4 minutes ago, Grand Admiral Thrawn said:

I would prefer it to be a natural process rather than forcing them to do so.

Why? This coercion is the best way to ensure even faster (full) adoption of USB C.

[Spindel]

Great way to stifle innovation. 

 

What if this would have become law with the fantastic micro-USB or even better with the old Ericsson charger (pic below).

 

Further, as I've said in numerous threads in here, I think USB-C is a bad connector, sure better than micro-USB but still to fragile. 

[Dabombinable]

3 minutes ago, Spindel said:

Great way to stifle innovation. 

 

What if this would have become law with the fantastic micro-USB or even better with the old Ericsson charger (pic below).

 

Further, as I've said in numerous threads in here, I think USB-C is a bad connector, sure better than micro-USB but still to fragile. 

That connector was also used for earphones/headsets. You needed the proprietary ones or an adapter to not annoy people. Mid 2000's Sony Ericson were as bad as current day iPhones in that regard (they still at least had expandable storage...up to 2GB)

[Spindel]

4 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

That connector was also used for earphones/headsets. You needed the proprietary ones or an adapter to not annoy people. Mid 2000's Sony Ericson were as bad as current day iPhones in that regard (they still at least had expandable storage...up to 2GB)

But the point is that if these standardization discussions would have cropped up back then and the industry had settled on the ericsson charger we would have been stuck with it. Back then it was enough in transfer speeds and in charging speeds and connectivity what more could you ask for. Well welcome to 202. 

 

This retarded EU proposal, while the base intention is noble, is trying to keep a static point in a dynamic world. This is stifling innovation at a high level.  

[Elisis]

2 minutes ago, Spindel said:

This retarded EU proposal, while the base intention is noble, is trying to keep a static point in a dynamic world. This is stifling innovation at a high level.  

I mean, it's not. This doesn't prevent the USB consortium, nor any other kind of electromechanical conglomerate from operating. There is nothing that suggests that if a better connector is ratified, governments won't move to that.

[saltycaramel]

I’m for it on the socket end.
USB-C PD supports all the voltages and wattages most consumer electronics would need.

 

I’m against it on the device end.

It would stifle innovation in terms of form factors, ingress protection, security, etc. 

It’s already non feasible (can’t put an usb-c on the actual chassis of an Apple watch), you’ll always need induction based charging for some gadgets. 

 

Apple is already 90% compliant on the socket end (almost every Apple product currently available ships with a usb-c on one end or both ends of the cable). Some Beats products still ship with USB-A on one end. 

[oali24]

26 minutes ago, Spindel said:

But the point is that if these standardization discussions would have cropped up back then and the industry had settled on the ericsson charger we would have been stuck with it. Back then it was enough in transfer speeds and in charging speeds and connectivity what more could you ask for. Well welcome to 202. 

 

This retarded EU proposal, while the base intention is noble, is trying to keep a static point in a dynamic world. This is stifling innovation at a high level.  

USB-C has been around for years, ports don't change fast enough for legislation to not keep up, with other things it matters more how fast the laws can keep up, but man, apple has been using the same charger for almost 10 years, doesn't seem all that innovative to me.

[Moonzy]

35 minutes ago, Spindel said:

But the point is that if these standardization discussions would have cropped up back then and the industry had settled on the ericsson charger we would have been stuck with it. Back then it was enough in transfer speeds and in charging speeds and connectivity what more could you ask for. Well welcome to 202. 

 

This retarded EU proposal, while the base intention is noble, is trying to keep a static point in a dynamic world. This is stifling innovation at a high level.  

isnt USB-C capable of transfering at 40Gbps or something thru USB 4.0/TB3.0?

i think we're at least half a decade away from saturating it or think it's not enough for transfering files from devices for the common folks

 

that said, i hope they standardise more than just the port, they should also standardize the protocol too in wherever field that makes sense

for example, phones should most definitely have more than USB 2.0 speeds but they dont, even thoiugh they're type C

DP-out capaibilities and what not

[Video Beagle]

37 minutes ago, Elisis said:

There is nothing that suggests that if a better connector is ratified, governments won't move to that.

Other than governments move at glacial paces. We don't need governments getting in the way of innovation. Standards bodies work out interconnectivity agreements and the market decides what technologies thrive or die.

[Elisis]

1 minute ago, Video Beagle said:

Other than governments move at glacial paces. We don't need governments getting in the way of innovation. Standards bodies work out interconnectivity agreements and the market decides what technologies thrive or die.

...This is likely getting too far on the political side to be discussed on the forum tbh

[AlexGoesHigh]

2 hours ago, porina said:

 

 

"for charging" so not powering consoles, but probably the controllers. I don't have either current gen model, what do they use?

Both console controllers are USB C

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, Levent said:

Havent they tried this before? I swear I remember seeing this numerous times before in LTT forums.

Yes, lots.  And as always here's my 2cents (although I am going to defend my 2 cents like it's worth a million bucks ).

 

IF the EU (or any government) were serious about the environment and E-waste,  then they would mandate that phones be designed to be serviceable and last 10 years.  We throw away more phones due to cracked screens (because they make them too fucking thin),  dead batteries (because they under spec them to save money) or simply becoming obsolete (because the hardware was released being barely good enough to run the current version of *enter mission critical software*) every year than we actually need to.  No one can honestly claim that having a phone 0.3mm thicker makes the phone unusable,  if you can't hold 50grams for the duration of a phone call then you need to see a doctor, tradies swing 1Kg tools all fucking day.    

 

It's really not that hard,  dumb phones for those who can't afford a smart phone (or don;t need one) no throw away smart phones so the cheapest you can buy is still as durable (or repairable) as phones used to be.   

 

The rest of these new rules/laws/regulations/etc are disingenuous rhetoric that sidesteps the real issues. 

 

 

 

[Beerzerker]

3 hours ago, Venson said:

Summary

Today (23.09.2021) the European Kommision will propose a law that forces all manufactures of Cellphones, Tablets, Cameras, Headphones and gaming consoles to use the USB-C standard for charging. The proposal aims to help consumers to reduce waste and also includes a section that forces all manufactures to exclude chargers for all products. It aims to reduce electronic waste by 980Tonnes pa.

 

 

My thoughts

This has been long overdue and I hate to see devices that still use mirco usb.

 

Sources

EU führt einheitliches Ladekabel für Handys ein - Schlappe für Apple - Wirtschaft - SZ.de (sueddeutsche.de)

Exclude chargers?
If I'm understanding this correctly (And I hope not), are they saying they can't include a charger for the device you're buying?

[porina]

15 minutes ago, Beerzerker said:

Exclude chargers?
If I'm understanding this correctly (And I hope not), are they saying they can't include a charger for the device you're buying?

I don't recall the details but there was a previous news thread on that topic. In short, if we have a standard charging connector, then you don't need a charger per device and you don't get a ton of excess chargers in everyone's home. At least that's the concept. If we're sticking on USB-C for a while, I see no need to get any more chargers with new devices as I have several already.

[Arika]

6 minutes ago, Beerzerker said:

Exclude chargers?
If I'm understanding this correctly (And I hope not), are they saying they can't include a charger for the device you're buying?

i think they're referring to wall warts which i absolutely agree with, i struggle to think that there are people that don't have at least one laying around, or would at least have a PC that they can use it charge it from. Pretty sure we're at a stage where we don't need wall warts for every single new device.

 

i personally have a bag of maybe 15+ wall warts that i have been collecting over many years because there is no convenient e-waste disposal close to me

[GOTSpectrum]

2 minutes ago, Arika S said:

i think they're referring to wall warts which i absolutely agree with, i struggle to think that there are people that don't have at least one laying around, or would at least have a PC that they can use it charge it from. Pretty sure we're at a stage where we don't need wall warts for every single new device.

 

i personally have a bag of maybe 15+ wall warts that i have been collecting over many years because there is no convenient e-waste disposal close to me

I have given away many wall warts as you call them and I still have 7 around the house that I know of, and probably more hidden in drawers, boxes, back of cupboards etc. 

 

I have at least 3 that are compatible with quick charge of some kind, although I find myself slow charging most of the time to help keep the battery in good condition. 

 

As far as phones being replaced, I recently had the loss of my nexus 5, yes that Nexus 5, which I used as a work phone for the last 5 years after moving away from it as my main. I've had it 7 or 8 years now and been through 2 battery replacements. It was probably time to upgrade honestly long ago but my work phone is only used for calls, texts and WhatsApp which it still did so why was there a need to upgrade? 

 

I'm using a refurb Sony Xperia 5 for my main phone atm, I'm actually really enjoying it. Let's hope it can last a few years, I already don't think I will be able to replace the battery in it as easily as my nexus 5, which is a shame. 

[Zodiark1593]

1 hour ago, Elisis said:

I mean, it's not. This doesn't prevent the USB consortium, nor any other kind of electromechanical conglomerate from operating. There is nothing that suggests that if a better connector is ratified, governments won't move to that.

If this was law in 2011, would Apple have been allowed to use the Lightning connector, which by that point was legitimately far superior to Micro USB?

[Spindel]

1 hour ago, Moonzy said:

isnt USB-C capable of transfering at 40Gbps or something thru USB 4.0/TB3.0?

i think we're at least half a decade away from saturating it or think it's not enough for transfering files from devices for the common folks

Yeah and 640k of ram should be enough for anybody too.