Jump to content

Report suggests many Gen Z students do not know how to use a basic file directory

ZacoAttaco
5 hours ago, Forbidden Wafer said:

Thank God I've never had this kinds of issues with my students.

 

For the other professors/teachers:
 

  Reveal hidden contents

sucks to be you.
Nelson - ha ha! (HD) - YouTube

/s

 

If you're not a first year/high school/101 professor, I feel bad for your students. Yes, they probably should know "what we see as basic, but many people never have to use" computer related things, but not everyone has had that opportunity. Imagine going to your class with a "I've never seen a computer before, but know they magically work" just to be told that they should have known that.

I'm not actually trying to be as grumpy as it seems.

I will find your mentions of Ikea or Gnome and I will /s post. 

Project Hot Box

CPU 13900k, Motherboard Gigabyte Aorus Elite AX, RAM CORSAIR Vengeance 4x16gb 5200 MHZ, GPU Zotac RTX 4090 Trinity OC, Case Fractal Pop Air XL, Storage Sabrent Rocket Q4 2tbCORSAIR Force Series MP510 1920GB NVMe, CORSAIR FORCE Series MP510 960GB NVMe, PSU CORSAIR HX1000i, Cooling Corsair XC8 CPU block, Bykski GPU block, 360mm and 280mm radiator, Displays Odyssey G9, LG 34UC98-W 34-Inch,Keyboard Mountain Everest Max, Mouse Mountain Makalu 67, Sound AT2035, Massdrop 6xx headphones, Go XLR 

Oppbevaring

CPU i9-9900k, Motherboard, ASUS Rog Maximus Code XI, RAM, 48GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB 3200 mhz (2x16)+(2x8) GPUs Asus ROG Strix 2070 8gb, PNY 1080, Nvidia 1080, Case Mining Frame, 2x Storage Samsung 860 Evo 500 GB, PSU Corsair RM1000x and RM850x, Cooling Asus Rog Ryuo 240 with Noctua NF-12 fans

 

Why is the 5800x so hot?

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

If you're not a first year/high school/101 professor, I feel bad for your students. 

I'm not and don't feel bad for them. They end up their courses not only knowing how stuff works but actually making it work with their own hands (e.g. network stack, schedulers, etc).

8 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

"I've never seen a computer before, but know they magically work"

I know how a bunch of stuff works to the finest details, know the implementation details, and still think they work by some form of black magic... They're not alone on that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is what that obnoxious "What's a computer?" iPad commercial has wrought. 

Corps aren't your friends. "Bottleneck calculators" are BS. Only suckers buy based on brand. It's your PC, do what makes you happy.  If your build meets your needs, you don't need anyone else to "rate" it for you. And talking about being part of a "master race" is cringe. Watch this space for further truths people need to hear.

 

Ryzen 7 5800X3D | ASRock X570 PG Velocita | PowerColor Red Devil RX 6900 XT | 4x8GB Crucial Ballistix 3600mt/s CL16

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread made my day after a hard day of studying chess.  And loved the Star Trek IV gif.  Thank you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Spindel said:

Well already 20 years ago the talks was about moving away from the "classic" folder structure and just dump all files into one big pile to then sort and search for them by metadata tags

Wasn't that (kinda) the idea behind "Libraries" in Windows 7/Vista? I found that just confused the @#$! out of unsavvy users (as far as the actual full paths to the files/folders are concerned).

 

Maybe that method would be good, but, they'd have to pick one over the other, the hybrid mess of Windows Libraries just added confusion for some people. I never used that feature. Not sure if it still exists in Windows 10.

23+ yrs IT experience

 

MAIN SYSTEM

Operating System

Windows 10 Pro x64 21H1

Case

Antec Three Hundred Two Gaming

CPU

AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8GHz 12-Core 24-Thread

Motherboard

Asus ROG Strix X570-E Gaming

RAM

G.Skill Trident Z RGB Series 32GB

(2 x 16GB) DDR4 3200 (PC4-25600)

Graphics Card

Asus Nvidia Geforce RTX 2060 Overclocked (Factory) 6GB GDDR6

Dual-Fan EVO Edition

Storage

2 × Samsung 970 EVO Plus Nvme (M.2 2280) SSD 1TB

2 × Samsung 860 QVO SATA III 6.0Gb/s SSD 1TB (RAID1 Array 1)

2 × Hitachi UltraStar HDS721010CLA330 7200RPM SATA III 3.0Gb/s 1TB (RAID1 Array 2)

PSU

Thermaltake Toughpower GF1 850W 80+ Gold

Optical Drive

LG WH16NS40 Super Multi Blue Internal SATA 16x Blu-ray Disc/DVD/CD Rewriter

Displays

HP w2408 widescreen 16:10 1920x1200 @60Hz

HP w2207 widescreen 16:10 1680x1050 @60Hz

Keyboard/Mouse

Logitech MK200 Wired Keyboard/Mouse Combo Kit

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Mom can't open a file in Word.

 

mom: OH NO! Who messed with my computer? All my Word documents are gone!

 

me: where did you save it?

 

mom: in Microsoft Word

 

me: I know, but what drive/folder?

 

mom: no, i just saved it in word and now it's gone. It's not in the list.

 

me: oh, that's just (go into long explanation of most recently used (MRU list), drives, folders, files, default save paths, etc)

 

mom: so all my documents got deleted? 

 

me: (facepalm)

 

me: opens "My Documents" shows her all her files.

 

mom: so how did all my files get moved there?

 

me: (facepalm)

23+ yrs IT experience

 

MAIN SYSTEM

Operating System

Windows 10 Pro x64 21H1

Case

Antec Three Hundred Two Gaming

CPU

AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8GHz 12-Core 24-Thread

Motherboard

Asus ROG Strix X570-E Gaming

RAM

G.Skill Trident Z RGB Series 32GB

(2 x 16GB) DDR4 3200 (PC4-25600)

Graphics Card

Asus Nvidia Geforce RTX 2060 Overclocked (Factory) 6GB GDDR6

Dual-Fan EVO Edition

Storage

2 × Samsung 970 EVO Plus Nvme (M.2 2280) SSD 1TB

2 × Samsung 860 QVO SATA III 6.0Gb/s SSD 1TB (RAID1 Array 1)

2 × Hitachi UltraStar HDS721010CLA330 7200RPM SATA III 3.0Gb/s 1TB (RAID1 Array 2)

PSU

Thermaltake Toughpower GF1 850W 80+ Gold

Optical Drive

LG WH16NS40 Super Multi Blue Internal SATA 16x Blu-ray Disc/DVD/CD Rewriter

Displays

HP w2408 widescreen 16:10 1920x1200 @60Hz

HP w2207 widescreen 16:10 1680x1050 @60Hz

Keyboard/Mouse

Logitech MK200 Wired Keyboard/Mouse Combo Kit

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Spindel said:

I would say most people can't use CLI at all, even on this forum. 

I mean yeah it would make sense if you aren't into IT as you don't really need to use CLI as an average user or even a more advanced user. I can count the number of times where I needed to use CLI on my hand. Using a file directory I honestly use it legitimately all the time and have been since I was young so idk how someone can even get by without figuring out how to use it at some point unless they legitimately don't use a computer very often. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

CLI = Confusing Linux Interface?

😁

 

I once knew a guy who didn't like Linux because of all that "archaic" text that flies by the screen on boot.

 

Oh, you mean that meaningful information that is very helpful in the case it hangs on boot or has some boot time issue? Yeah that archaic junk. lmao

 

He was very into Xandros at the time.  

23+ yrs IT experience

 

MAIN SYSTEM

Operating System

Windows 10 Pro x64 21H1

Case

Antec Three Hundred Two Gaming

CPU

AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8GHz 12-Core 24-Thread

Motherboard

Asus ROG Strix X570-E Gaming

RAM

G.Skill Trident Z RGB Series 32GB

(2 x 16GB) DDR4 3200 (PC4-25600)

Graphics Card

Asus Nvidia Geforce RTX 2060 Overclocked (Factory) 6GB GDDR6

Dual-Fan EVO Edition

Storage

2 × Samsung 970 EVO Plus Nvme (M.2 2280) SSD 1TB

2 × Samsung 860 QVO SATA III 6.0Gb/s SSD 1TB (RAID1 Array 1)

2 × Hitachi UltraStar HDS721010CLA330 7200RPM SATA III 3.0Gb/s 1TB (RAID1 Array 2)

PSU

Thermaltake Toughpower GF1 850W 80+ Gold

Optical Drive

LG WH16NS40 Super Multi Blue Internal SATA 16x Blu-ray Disc/DVD/CD Rewriter

Displays

HP w2408 widescreen 16:10 1920x1200 @60Hz

HP w2207 widescreen 16:10 1680x1050 @60Hz

Keyboard/Mouse

Logitech MK200 Wired Keyboard/Mouse Combo Kit

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, aramini said:

Wasn't that (kinda) the idea behind "Libraries" in Windows 7/Vista? I found that just confused the @#$! out of unsavvy users (as far as the actual full paths to the files/folders are concerned).

 

Maybe that method would be good, but, they'd have to pick one over the other, the hybrid mess of Windows Libraries just added confusion for some people. I never used that feature. Not sure if it still exists in Windows 10.

Exactly.

I'm sure Microsoft will go the direction of Google and turn the entire file system into a flat database with tagging, much how GMail does it with e-mail. I loath that concept. It's tantamount to having your home be an open warehouse without walls and doors. Which is stupid BTW because doors, like folders/directories provide a mental point of transition from one domain to another. A form of compartmentalization to help stay organized.

For all the advancements in computing, humanity seems to have made a major step back in regards to human psychology. If there was ever any proof, please read the garbage spewed on Social Media and UI design.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, StDragon said:

Exactly.

I'm sure Microsoft will go the direction of Google and turn the entire file system into a flat database with tagging, much how GMail does it with e-mail. I loath that concept. It's tantamount to having your home be an open warehouse without walls and doors. Which is stupid BTW because doors, like folders/directories provide a mental point of transition from one domain to another. A form of compartmentalization to help stay organized.

For all the advancements in computing, humanity seems to have made a major step back in regards to human psychology. If there was ever any proof, please read the garbage spewed on Social Media. 

Yep, totally agree. The big cloud companies want to handle it all for you so that it is transparent and you don't have to think (aka use your brain).

 

23+ yrs IT experience

 

MAIN SYSTEM

Operating System

Windows 10 Pro x64 21H1

Case

Antec Three Hundred Two Gaming

CPU

AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8GHz 12-Core 24-Thread

Motherboard

Asus ROG Strix X570-E Gaming

RAM

G.Skill Trident Z RGB Series 32GB

(2 x 16GB) DDR4 3200 (PC4-25600)

Graphics Card

Asus Nvidia Geforce RTX 2060 Overclocked (Factory) 6GB GDDR6

Dual-Fan EVO Edition

Storage

2 × Samsung 970 EVO Plus Nvme (M.2 2280) SSD 1TB

2 × Samsung 860 QVO SATA III 6.0Gb/s SSD 1TB (RAID1 Array 1)

2 × Hitachi UltraStar HDS721010CLA330 7200RPM SATA III 3.0Gb/s 1TB (RAID1 Array 2)

PSU

Thermaltake Toughpower GF1 850W 80+ Gold

Optical Drive

LG WH16NS40 Super Multi Blue Internal SATA 16x Blu-ray Disc/DVD/CD Rewriter

Displays

HP w2408 widescreen 16:10 1920x1200 @60Hz

HP w2207 widescreen 16:10 1680x1050 @60Hz

Keyboard/Mouse

Logitech MK200 Wired Keyboard/Mouse Combo Kit

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see the problem with this at all. We have moved on in computing such that you don't need to know file directories, CLIs, etc. to function. In the end, if they need to know how to do it, they'll learn how to do it. That's literally how it is for everything and I am sure they have learned some skills and knowledge that you don't have / needed yet.

 

As enthusiasts who tend a lot (if not too much) time with computers, we just were exposed to it at an earlier point and needed to learn sooner.

 

Just a lot of old and/or techy people in this thread trying to make themselves feel superior.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Brinith said:

Just a lot of old and/or techy people in this thread trying to make themselves feel superior.

Not really. You could not get by in my line of work having no concept of how things work. People just want to trust the big companies and not think about the implications/ramifications (look where that's gotten us).

 

Do you question your doctor or just accept everything they say without doing your own research? Hasn't this whole COVID-19 mess caused any mistrust at all, with all the conflicting opinions and misinformation? (just an example).

 

It's like that in IT.  Knowledge is power and allows one to make more informed decisions. Knowing a software inside and out but not understanding concepts is dangerous.

 

I knew of a guy who deleted all of his company's VMs vdmk files (VM Ware virtual disks) because he figured they had snapshots and wanted to free up disk space on the server. He didn't understand the concept of snapshots and how they relate to the VM disks (they are like incremental backups of changes made to the VM so you can roll back if necessary). He cost the company millions and got fired.

 

Unfortunately these days, everything is watered down to an A or B, tribalistic warfare without any understanding of or willingness to discuss nuanced topics. Not everything is A or B, black or white.

 

I don't feel superior, I feel disheartened and am concerned for the education levels of future generations (my nieces and nephew, who are gen z and younger, struggle with basic math concepts because the state of California has a wacky way of teaching it based on how they "feel" about the math problem rather than reasoning and logic. In addition to doing the math problem, they literally have to write short essays about how the math problem made them feel.

23+ yrs IT experience

 

MAIN SYSTEM

Operating System

Windows 10 Pro x64 21H1

Case

Antec Three Hundred Two Gaming

CPU

AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8GHz 12-Core 24-Thread

Motherboard

Asus ROG Strix X570-E Gaming

RAM

G.Skill Trident Z RGB Series 32GB

(2 x 16GB) DDR4 3200 (PC4-25600)

Graphics Card

Asus Nvidia Geforce RTX 2060 Overclocked (Factory) 6GB GDDR6

Dual-Fan EVO Edition

Storage

2 × Samsung 970 EVO Plus Nvme (M.2 2280) SSD 1TB

2 × Samsung 860 QVO SATA III 6.0Gb/s SSD 1TB (RAID1 Array 1)

2 × Hitachi UltraStar HDS721010CLA330 7200RPM SATA III 3.0Gb/s 1TB (RAID1 Array 2)

PSU

Thermaltake Toughpower GF1 850W 80+ Gold

Optical Drive

LG WH16NS40 Super Multi Blue Internal SATA 16x Blu-ray Disc/DVD/CD Rewriter

Displays

HP w2408 widescreen 16:10 1920x1200 @60Hz

HP w2207 widescreen 16:10 1680x1050 @60Hz

Keyboard/Mouse

Logitech MK200 Wired Keyboard/Mouse Combo Kit

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, SlidewaysZ said:

Man this kinda blows my mind. I mean if you can't figure out the basic file directory why are you in STEM? The professors job shouldn't include a 2hr lesson on folder structure. I mean what's next a how to turn on a desktop lecture because people only use mobile devices? I'd love to see these students try and navigate through folders in the terminal window 🤣

Of course its the professor's job, especially for first year courses. I'm in computer science and that's the expectation, not everyone is going to be on the same page. A lot of people who end up excelling in computer science go into the program with no programming experience whatsoever.

 

And it is not that they can't figure the file directory out, they just never had to. I'm sure all these students after a while got the hang of it because its not a hard thing to do. As for navigating folders in terminal, we actually had portions of a lecture going over basic linux commands like cd, ls, etc. in a first year course at a top tier CS program. And hey by the end of the lecture and for sure by the end of the week after doing some exercises, we all got the hang of it. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Brinith said:

Just a lot of old and/or techy people in this thread trying to make themselves feel superior.

Or maybe some of us have enough experience to espouse some sage wisdom now and then. But it's a bit hard to get the message through when software is geared to the lowest common denominator festooned with stupid concepts. The TikTok generation comes to mind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Just now, StDragon said:

Or maybe some of us have enough experience to espouse some sage wisdom now and then. But it's a bit hard to get the message through when software is geared to the lowest common denominator festooned with stupid concepts. The TikTok generation comes to mind.

I doubt you along with the majority of under 30’s would know how to control your system exclusively through command line without a GUI.

 

All of this criticism is hypocritical unless you can, you know, because the same transition and disconnect happened 30 years ago with the transition to Windows and Mac.

MacBook Pro 16 i9-9980HK - Radeon Pro 5500m 8GB - 32GB DDR4 - 2TB NVME

iPhone 12 Mini / Sony WH-1000XM4 / Bose Companion 20

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, aramini said:

Not really. You could not get by in my line of work having no concept of how things work. People just want to trust the big companies (look where that's gotten us).

 

Do you question your doctor ornjust accept everything they say without doing your own research?

 

It's like that. Knowledge is power and allows one to make more informed decisions.

 

Unfortunately these days, everything is watered down to an A or B, tribalistic warfare without any understanding of or willingness to discuss nuance.

 

I don't feel superior, I feel disheartened and am concerned for the education levels of future generations (my nieces and nephew, who are gen z and beyond and struggle with basic math because the State has a wacky way of teaching it based on feelings about the math problem rather than reasoning and logic.

These are students who are struggling to learn something they never needed to do. So they take some time and learn it pretty quickly.

 

And yes I generally accept the advice and diagnosis of my doctor. Sure its good to be knowledgeable and "do some BASIC research", but look what "doing your own research" has done for people in recent times: taking unapproved mediations in completely wrong concentrations, inhaling hydrogen peroxide in nebulizers, etc.

 

And trust me, your nieces and nephew who are struggling with basic math aren't struggling with it because of the education, its because they haven't been instilled the value and importance of education. I've gone through it comparatively recently compared to you and the education was just fine.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, StDragon said:

Or maybe some of us have enough experience to espouse some sage wisdom now and then. But it's a bit hard to get the message through when software is geared to the lowest common denominator festooned with stupid concepts. The TikTok generation comes to mind.

You say its geared toward the lowest common denominator, but in the field of software engineering, its called making better designs. We have a whole branch of computer science called Human Computer Interaction which studies and improves the usability of software.

 

You are judging about the "TikTok generation" like they are adults, they are still children. All children are annoying and cringeworthy to observe. How about you judge them when they are in their late 20s and 30s? I bet you they probably not far off emotionally and academically from previous generations, if anything they'll probably know much more than you did at the same age. Its just how life is.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Brinith said:

These are students who are struggling to learn something they never needed to do. So they take some time and learn it pretty quickly.

 

And yes I generally accept the advice and diagnosis of my doctor. Sure its good to be knowledgeable and "do some BASIC research", but look what "doing your own research" has done for people in recent times: taking unapproved mediations in completely wrong concentrations, inhaling hydrogen peroxide in nebulizers, etc.

 

And trust me, your nieces and nephew who are struggling with basic math aren't struggling with it because of the education, its because they haven't been instilled the value and importance of education. I've gone through it comparatively recently compared to you and the education was just fine.

Granted not everyone is going to know everything, especially as a beginner. But by the time you get to a 4 yr university, you should have some clue and not expect to be spoonfed everything like they do in a lot of high school/grade school curricula.

 

If one is interested in a field of study because of interest (not for the money or because they heard it would be cool to work for Google, Facebook, Twitter, whatever) you'd think they'd be somewhat motivated to learn stuff on their own outside of school. The Internet has tons and tons of free resources when it come to tech.

 

The point about the medical example was exactly that, people either trust their doctor or watch some 10min podcast/youtube video and think they are experts on the matter. Forums (not just this site) are full of those kind of posts (although there are also a lot of experienced users with deeper knowledge who know what they are actually talking about).

 

The point is people don't want to dig deep, because it takes time and effort to learn difficult concepts and for whatever reason, it seems the average person (at least the average American anyways) just can't be bothered.

 

It's a failure of a lot of things, I wouldn't just point to one factor.

 

My nieces and nephews are in grade school and high school in California, 14th in education in the US. I've helped them with their homework,  they lack understanding of the basics concepts.

 

I've always been more geared towards figuring things out on my own and am pretty much self-taught in IT. I probably worked much harder because I had to prove myself to employers since I have no formal degree. But I also don't claim to know everything about everything. Everyone has holes in their knowledge. But struggling with the basic concept of folders/files at college level? That is absurd to me. A "Windows 10 For Dummies" book or similar would solve that problem right away.

23+ yrs IT experience

 

MAIN SYSTEM

Operating System

Windows 10 Pro x64 21H1

Case

Antec Three Hundred Two Gaming

CPU

AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8GHz 12-Core 24-Thread

Motherboard

Asus ROG Strix X570-E Gaming

RAM

G.Skill Trident Z RGB Series 32GB

(2 x 16GB) DDR4 3200 (PC4-25600)

Graphics Card

Asus Nvidia Geforce RTX 2060 Overclocked (Factory) 6GB GDDR6

Dual-Fan EVO Edition

Storage

2 × Samsung 970 EVO Plus Nvme (M.2 2280) SSD 1TB

2 × Samsung 860 QVO SATA III 6.0Gb/s SSD 1TB (RAID1 Array 1)

2 × Hitachi UltraStar HDS721010CLA330 7200RPM SATA III 3.0Gb/s 1TB (RAID1 Array 2)

PSU

Thermaltake Toughpower GF1 850W 80+ Gold

Optical Drive

LG WH16NS40 Super Multi Blue Internal SATA 16x Blu-ray Disc/DVD/CD Rewriter

Displays

HP w2408 widescreen 16:10 1920x1200 @60Hz

HP w2207 widescreen 16:10 1680x1050 @60Hz

Keyboard/Mouse

Logitech MK200 Wired Keyboard/Mouse Combo Kit

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, aramini said:

Granted not everyone is going to know everything, especially as a beginner. But by the time you get to a 4 yr university, you should have some clue and not expect to be spoonfed everything like they do in a lot of high school/greade school curricula.

 

If one is interested in a field of study because of interest (not for the money or because they heard it would be cool to work for Google, Facebook, Twitter, whatever) you'd think they'd be somewhat motivated to learn stuff on their own outside of school. The Internet has tons and tons of free resources when it come to tech.

 

The point about the medical example was exactly that, people either trust their doctor or watch some 10min podcast/youtube video and think they are experts on the matter. Forums (not just this site) are full of those kind of posts (although there are also a lot of experienced users with deeper knowledge who know what they are actually talking about).

 

The point is people don't want to dig deep, because it takes time and effort to learn difficult concepts and for whatever reason, it seems the average person (at least the average American anyways) just can't be bothered.

 

It's a failure of a lot of things, I wouldn't just point to one factor.

 

My nieces and nephews are in grade school and high school in California, 14th in education in the US. I've helped them with their homework,  they lack understanding of the basics concepts.

 

I've always been more geared towards figuring things out on my own and am pretty much self-taught in IT. I probably worked much harder because I had to prove myself to employers since I have no formal degree. But I also don't claim to know everything about everything. Everyone has holes in their knowledge. But struggling with the basic concept of folders/files at college level? That is absurd to me. A "Windows 10 For Dummies" book or similar would solve that problem right away.

I’m curious if you can perform calculus, geometry and advanced algebra without a calculator. You know, “the basics” behind your chosen field of work.

 

No? Didn’t think so. Isn’t it weird how technology and education moves on?

MacBook Pro 16 i9-9980HK - Radeon Pro 5500m 8GB - 32GB DDR4 - 2TB NVME

iPhone 12 Mini / Sony WH-1000XM4 / Bose Companion 20

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly, maybe this is a sign that things should change. I remember when Windows Vista introduced those libraries and I made a point of never using them, because they went against how I've been taught to organize files on a PC from a very young age (also, just plain old anti-authoritarian mindset of not wanting to be told how I had to do something). But then again, this might've been the first sign that I'm becoming a grumpy old man, refusing to go with the times. Similarly, I hated how the iPod didn't allow me to access its file structure. And when it begrudgingly finally did, it turned out that it changed all the file names to absolute gibberish and grouped files into folders in what seemed like random groupings, which made it unusable for what I wanted to do with it. Android too didn't want to let users access its file system at first.

 

And yeah, I too am really not a fan of how gmail wants to abolish folders and handle everything with labels, because again, it goes against how I've been organizing files for decades by this point. But here's the problem: Unless you're very consistent and keep an internal map of how your files are laid out, it's largely impossible to find anything reliably in a large file system. A system with metadata is cumbersome to set up and requires no less diligence on the part of the people maintaining the files, but it offers way more in terms of discoverability and is far more scalable and flexible to change. 

 

One thing that immediately springs to mind that I've been unsuccessfully trying to change in my job's file structure is the way how photos are stored. Our photos are first grouped by topic and then by case number within each topic. The problem is that none of the image files themselves get tagged with anything, and obviously their sequential file names also don't get changed, so to any search function, they're basically invisible. They just get dumped into their case numbered folder, which sits in the parented topic folder. The topics were create just to make it easier to search for photos in case you need something that corresponds with one of those topics. I've proposed numerous times to just get rid of that system, dump all the photos in one place and let the metadata do the rest of the work, along with a solidly indexed search function, but no dice.

 

What I'm trying to say with this is that I understand the knee-jerk reaction working with this kind of system for decades because I've been there. But I also understand that it might be silly to hold onto said system in perpetuity and just out of some kind of misguided fear of being left behind. If you start thinking like this, you're no better than grandpa refusing to pay by card or scan QR codes with a smartphone. The whole desktop, folder, file, recycling bin and even the floppy disk save icon terminology are just symbolic to us because we use real-world analogs as mental shorthand to conceptualize how we stored entirely virtual data. The data on the actual storage medium isn't stored anything like how these terms might suggest they are, we're just forcing a framework onto the whole thing that made sense to us when people still largely used folders and filing cabinets, when you wouldn't dump all your files randomly into a filing cabinet with a bunch of colored post it notes that represent labels. It makes sense that a generation that has never encountered these things wouldn't immediately grasp the concept. The same way how we would probably have trouble using more archaic systems that were ubiquitous decades before we were born.

And now a word from our sponsor: 💩

-.-. --- --- .-.. --..-- / -.-- --- ..- / -.- -. --- .-- / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .

ᑐᑌᑐᑢ

Spoiler

    ▄██████                                                      ▄██▀

  ▄█▀   ███                                                      ██

▄██     ███                                                      ██

███   ▄████  ▄█▀  ▀██▄    ▄████▄     ▄████▄     ▄████▄     ▄████▄██   ▄████▄

███████████ ███     ███ ▄██▀ ▀███▄ ▄██▀ ▀███▄ ▄██▀ ▀███▄ ▄██▀ ▀████ ▄██▀ ▀███▄

████▀   ███ ▀██▄   ▄██▀ ███    ███ ███        ███    ███ ███    ███ ███    ███

 ██▄    ███ ▄ ▀██▄██▀    ███▄ ▄██   ███▄ ▄██   ███▄ ▄███  ███▄ ▄███▄ ███▄ ▄██

  ▀█▄    ▀█ ██▄ ▀█▀     ▄ ▀████▀     ▀████▀     ▀████▀▀██▄ ▀████▀▀██▄ ▀████▀

       ▄█ ▄▄      ▄█▄  █▀            █▄                   ▄██  ▄▀

       ▀  ██      ███                ██                    ▄█

          ██      ███   ▄   ▄████▄   ██▄████▄     ▄████▄   ██   ▄

          ██      ███ ▄██ ▄██▀ ▀███▄ ███▀ ▀███▄ ▄██▀ ▀███▄ ██ ▄██

          ██     ███▀  ▄█ ███    ███ ███    ███ ███    ███ ██  ▄█

        █▄██  ▄▄██▀    ██  ███▄ ▄███▄ ███▄ ▄██   ███▄ ▄██  ██  ██

        ▀███████▀    ▄████▄ ▀████▀▀██▄ ▀████▀     ▀████▀ ▄█████████▄

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Roswell said:

I’m curious if you can perform calculus, geometry and advanced algebra without a calculator. You know, “the basics” behind your chosen field of work.

 

No? Didn’t think so. Isn’t it weird how technology and education moves on?

Well, considering I learned those subjects in high school 1989-1993 and have used online resources to brush up here and there. If I had to without a calculator, yes I probably could. A calculator is a tool, a technological tool. The underlying math isn't new. All the great mathematicians, Physicists, discoverers/inventors of Calculus, etc didn't have calculators (Copernicus, Newton, Euler, Euclid, etc).

 

Sure some problems are just easier if not impossible to do without a calculator or Matlab, or Wolfram Mathematica or whatever. But hey, it turns out that computers are really good at crunching numbers, doing calculatations, etc.

 

I actually had good math teachers in high school. In my freshman geometry class (9th grade) my teacher made us do proofs on paper, showing our work and did not let us use a calculator.

 

Thanks for the assumptions though. Just because I've no formal degree, doesn't mean I never attended college or learned things on my own. I don't see what you are trying to prove there?

 

There's a huge difference between the basic structure of a file system and advanced mathematics.

 

What next? Am I going to have to pass a quiz on discrete math or differntial equations to satisfy you?

 

I am not here to argue, but rather discuss the topic amicably.

23+ yrs IT experience

 

MAIN SYSTEM

Operating System

Windows 10 Pro x64 21H1

Case

Antec Three Hundred Two Gaming

CPU

AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8GHz 12-Core 24-Thread

Motherboard

Asus ROG Strix X570-E Gaming

RAM

G.Skill Trident Z RGB Series 32GB

(2 x 16GB) DDR4 3200 (PC4-25600)

Graphics Card

Asus Nvidia Geforce RTX 2060 Overclocked (Factory) 6GB GDDR6

Dual-Fan EVO Edition

Storage

2 × Samsung 970 EVO Plus Nvme (M.2 2280) SSD 1TB

2 × Samsung 860 QVO SATA III 6.0Gb/s SSD 1TB (RAID1 Array 1)

2 × Hitachi UltraStar HDS721010CLA330 7200RPM SATA III 3.0Gb/s 1TB (RAID1 Array 2)

PSU

Thermaltake Toughpower GF1 850W 80+ Gold

Optical Drive

LG WH16NS40 Super Multi Blue Internal SATA 16x Blu-ray Disc/DVD/CD Rewriter

Displays

HP w2408 widescreen 16:10 1920x1200 @60Hz

HP w2207 widescreen 16:10 1680x1050 @60Hz

Keyboard/Mouse

Logitech MK200 Wired Keyboard/Mouse Combo Kit

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, Brinith said:

Just a lot of old and/or techy people in this thread trying to make themselves feel superior.

No, I don't feel superior, I'm actually disappointed that people insist that knowing how to use a file directory means someone is old. And i'm concerned the Gen-Z crowd that never touched a desktop PC is going to influence companies like Microsoft into getting rid of file and folder directories entirely for search term queries which is a huge step backwards for usability and ease of use in the UI.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, aramini said:

Granted not everyone is going to know everything, especially as a beginner. But by then time you get to a 4 yr university, you should have some clue and not expect to be spoonfed everything like they do in a lot of high school curricula.

 

If one is interested in a field of study because of interest (not for the money or because they heard it would be cool to work for Google, Facebook, Twitter, whatever) you'd think they'd be somewhat motivated to learn stuff on their own outside of school. The Internet has tons and tons of free resources when it come to tech.

 

The point about the medical example was exactly that, people either trust their doctor or watch some 10min podcast/youtube video and think they are experts on the matter. Forums (not just this site) are full of those kind of posts (although there are also a lot of experienced users with deeper knowledge who know what they are actually talking about).

 

The point is people don't want to dig deep, because it takes time and effort to learn difficult concepts and for whatever reason, it seems the average person (at least the average American anyways) just can't be bothered.

 

It's a failure of a lotnof things, I wouldn't just point to one factor.

 

My nieces and nephews are in grade school and high school in California, 14th in education in the US. I've helped them with their homework,  they lack understanding of the basics concepts.

 

I've always been more geared towards figuring things out on my own and am pretty much self-taught in IT. I probably worked much harder because I had to prove myself to employers since I have no formal degree. But I also don't claim to know everything about everything. Everyone has holes in their knowledge. But struggling with the concept of folders/files? That is absurd to me.

Is it really considered spoonfed to get some help on something you've never need to use before?

 

Before you get to a 4 year university means at most 8 years (to really have the autonomy to self learn). Between school, figuring out themselves as people, hobbies (aside from interests in field of study like sports, music, etc.), social life and responsibilities, I don't blame them for spending that much time on self learning. Sure I was able to back then and it certainly did help me in being sure on what I wanted to do going into college, but its not like I didn't lose anything from doing so.

 

I agree that most people don't want to dig deep on a lot of things, but I am sure there are other aspects of life that they do spend the time and effort on.

 

In regards to education in the US, when I was in highschool doing calculus, there were others struggling with basic algebra that they should have learned in middle school. It wasn't that they couldn't have learned, they just didn't pay attention / care. It's really unfortunate. There is a failure in education in the US, but I don't believe it is the curriculum or method that's the problem. A bigger issue I see is that for those who are behind or didn't pay attention for a while, its really hard to catch up. There's no school resources or even encouragement to ask for more help if they are struggling so it just piles on and on until they just give up completely.

 

It is only absurd because given your experience and interests, it is only natural that you've come across the need to learn it early on. It wasn't until I started my CS program that I learned about Vim or being as comfortable in a terminal as I am now. Some peers looked at me like I was dumb back then but I turned out just fine and probably doing better than a number of them now.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×