Microsoft announces new Surface lineup

[LAwLz]

2 hours ago, Jeppes said:

Ipados is garbage because they limit its usability. I guess we are still 5 years away from using an external display with ipad as it took a bit more for mouse support

Epic pwnage my dude

The iPad sure is garbage. It's really not made for bros like you and me who run srs software like COD and FIFA. 

[Jeppes]

Just now, LAwLz said:

Epic pwnage my dude

The iPad sure is garbage. It's really not made for bros like you and me who run srs software like COD and FIFA. 

Apple fanboys always get rekt by Apple later. "Why would you need a mouse?" "Why would need more features than ios offers?" "Why would you need an external display?" "Why wouldnt you want to purchase a desktop when ipad has the same cpu?"

 

Why try to defend some ridiculously stupid stuff? Like adding the most basic features makes products worse

[WhitetailAni]

20 minutes ago, Jeppes said:

Apple fanboys always get rekt by Apple later. "Why would you need a mouse?" "Why would need more features than ios offers?" "Why would you need an external display?" "Why wouldnt you want to purchase a desktop when ipad has the same cpu?"

This is one of the most ignorant things I've ever heard anyone say. I'm assuming it's referencing the iPad Pro since that's the subject of debate at the moment.

20 minutes ago, Jeppes said:

"Why would you need a mouse?"

Dude. You can use the Magic Mouse with an iPad Pro - heck, you can probably still use the Mighty Mouse Wireless (2005) with the iPad Pro.

20 minutes ago, Jeppes said:

"Why would need more features than ios offers?"

iOS offers a crap ton of stuff, and if you feel it's limited jailbreaking's a thing. I've done it on my 6S w/ checkra1n and iOS 14.8. Sure, you can't do it on modern devices like the 11, but if you want to jailbreak why'd you buy an 11 anyway?

20 minutes ago, Jeppes said:

"Why would you need an external display?"

And you can connect an external display to the iPad Pro since it has USB-C. And even with the Lightning-equipped iPads there's Lightning to HDMI/VGA.

20 minutes ago, Jeppes said:

"Why wouldnt you want to purchase a desktop when ipad has the same cpu?"

CPU = platform. The Apple Silicon Macs run macOS, the Apple Silicon iPads run iPadOS. They're different and intended for different markets.

[Jeppes]

20 minutes ago, FakeKGB said:

This is one of the most ignorant things I've ever heard anyone say. I'm assuming it's referencing the iPad Pro since that's the subject of debate at the moment.

Dude. You can use the Magic Mouse with an iPad Pro - heck, you can probably still use the Mighty Mouse Wireless (2005) with the iPad Pro.

iOS offers a crap ton of stuff, and if you feel it's limited jailbreaking's a thing. I've done it on my 6S w/ checkra1n and iOS 14.8. Sure, you can't do it on modern devices like the 11, but if you want to jailbreak why'd you buy an 11 anyway?

And you can connect an external display to the iPad Pro since it has USB-C. And even with the Lightning-equipped iPads there's Lightning to HDMI/VGA.

CPU = platform. The Apple Silicon Macs run macOS, the Apple Silicon iPads run iPadOS. They're different and intended for different markets.

No they make the ipad series work janky with external display and mouse because they want to sell more devices. Hopefully EU will do something about this crime against environment.

 

And you missed the point that half of those questions are stuff you dont have to defend any more.

[Blademaster91]

39 minutes ago, FakeKGB said:

Dude. You can use the Magic Mouse with an iPad Pro

Oh yeah that joke of a mouse you have to turn upside down to charge lol.

41 minutes ago, FakeKGB said:

iOS offers a crap ton of stuff, and if you feel it's limited jailbreaking's a thing. I've done it on my 6S w/ checkra1n and iOS 14.8. Sure, you can't do it on modern devices like the 11, but if you want to jailbreak why'd you buy an 11 anyway?

iOS app store isn't enough for everyone, i'm amazed people think ios is magically enough for everyone and windows sucks.

42 minutes ago, FakeKGB said:

And you can connect an external display to the iPad Pro since it has USB-C. And even with the Lightning-equipped iPads there's Lightning to HDMI/VGA.

So you need a bunch of dongles, iirc MS offers a surface dock, one thing to plug in and you get an RJ45 port, USB-C and USB A ports.

44 minutes ago, FakeKGB said:

CPU = platform. The Apple Silicon Macs run macOS, the Apple Silicon iPads run iPadOS. They're different and intended for different markets.

They're only different because apple wants you to buy both if you need a tablet and a laptop.

[Dracarris]

46 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

iirc MS offers a surface dock, one thing to plug in and you get an RJ45 port, USB-C and USB A ports.

What makes you think those don't work on the ipad?

  

46 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Oh yeah that joke of a mouse you have to turn upside down to charge lol.

You are free to use whichever mouse you prefer.

[WhitetailAni]

2 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

iOS app store isn't enough for everyone, i'm amazed people think ios is magically enough for everyone and windows sucks.

What? Where did I say that? I said “iOS has plenty of features”, not “iOS is enough for everyone and Windows sucks.” Please don’t blow my statements to fanboyism-level, they’re not. iOS is limited.

2 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

They're only different because apple wants you to buy both if you need a tablet and a laptop.

iPad Pro has keyboard+trackpad/mouse functionality (so laptop) and tablet functionality. Surface has keyboard+trackpad/mouse functionality (so laptop) and tablet functionality. Ergo, 2-in-1. Plus iPadOS is tweaked to work better for iPads, while Windows has to work across many devices.

2 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

Oh yeah that joke of a mouse you have to turn upside down to charge lol.

If you don’t like the Magic Mouse 2 you can always get a different mouse. Any Bluetooth mouse/trackpad will work with an iPad Pro; I used the Magic Mouse as an example as it’s an Apple peripheral.

[Sharp_3yE]

On 9/23/2021 at 2:48 PM, Sorenson said:

It’s using a 4 core intel CPU and 3050ti, it’s just mindbogglingly overpriced and underpowered. The whole hinge thing is cool, but I just can’t see any way it makes sense to buy it.

Then it's not for you cuz the whole point of the device is INKING! That's what it is for. 

 

If you're an artist, it's super awesome. What does Apple have like this? Nothing. 

Do other companies have something like this? Sure there's other devices to buy for inking that's a laptop. Still a Windows device. Awesome windows users have options. 

[Sharp_3yE]

On 9/27/2021 at 5:33 AM, LAwLz said:

But it does run the software most people need...

 

The M1 iPad seems to fit the "something portable to scribble and draw on" pretty well. Why do they need Windows exactly? Before you say "they have some programs they need", which programs?

 

 

But the iPad can be used for more than just watching Netflix on the sofa...

dude, if they could all just use an iPad, why does Apple still have Macbooks? If an iPad does errthing a MacBook could then we don't need Macbooks right? 

 

Oh wait, Apple users have Macs and iPad for different uses.  

 

Wait a second! A Surface Pro does what a Mac can and an iPad?  

 

Not even Microsoft Word is the same on ios as it is on Windows. It's different and a bit cut down. 

 

Ipads are fine devices. IPad pros are much more capable today then Ipads use to be. That's cool. 

Some people just like windows or Need windows. 

 

Are there apps you might be able to switch to on ios? Maybe but..... Why?

 

Why not just keep using windows and a Surface Pro/book/ W/E Surface or windows device that someone can have pen support where I have the benefit of an inking screen and windows? 

 

Ios has come a long way but it's still not the same as a Mac. 

 

And the reason surface type devices are great is the 2 in 1 features you get while it being Windows. 

[Sorenson]

17 minutes ago, Sharp_3yE said:

Then it's not for you cuz the whole point of the device is INKING! That's what it is for. 

 

If you're an artist, it's super awesome. What does Apple have like this? Nothing. 

Do other companies have something like this? Sure there's other devices to buy for inking that's a laptop. Still a Windows device. Awesome windows users have options. 

First off, Apple has multiple iPads that work with the Apple Pencil and Procreate. Second, you completely missed the point. The problem isn’t the hardware. The problem is the ridiculous price premium Microsoft charges for its cool looking, but underpowered device.

 

It costs you $2230 to get the Surface Studio Laptop with the dedicated GPU and surface pen. At that price, you get a 4 core i7, 16gb of ram, and 512gb of storage. 

 

For less than that you could get an iPad Pro ($800) an upgraded MacBook air ($1250) and the apple pencil ($129). 

[Sharp_3yE]

On 9/27/2021 at 12:07 PM, LAwLz said:

If Surface users aren't "most people", then who are Surface people? What special needs do they have that can't be fulfilled on an M1 iPad?

 

 

CAD - exists on the iPad although in somewhat limited capabilities. 

Thats the point. You just made his point and answered your own question for him and you still aren't getting it. 

 

CAD is limited on iPad. So, you want full CAD on a tablet device? Ohhh, gues the ONLY option is a Surface or other Windows device from another company. 

 

You just answered "Then who are Surface people?" 

 

Not sure how you didn't understand this when you're answering your own question. 

[LAwLz]

1 minute ago, Sharp_3yE said:

Thats the point. You just made his point and answered your own question for him and you still aren't getting it. 

 

CAD is limited on iPad. So, you want full CAD on a tablet device? Ohhh, gues the ONLY option is a Surface or other Windows device from another company. 

 

You just answered "Then who are Surface people?" 

 

Not sure how you didn't understand this when you're answering your own question. 

So Surface users are CAD people?

I'd say that, from my experience, barely anyone with a Surface device runs CAD program. It's a very niche market, and the Surface Pro is a lot more popular than that.

 

And what CAD work do they do on the Surface exactly? I doubt they do the heavy lifting on it, since it has such limited hardware. The CAD tasks that would work well on the Surface Pro are most likely the type of things that would work on the iPad as well.

[Sharp_3yE]

3 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

So Surface users are CAD people?

I'd say that, from my experience, barely anyone with a Surface device runs CAD program. It's a very niche market, and the Surface Pro is a lot more popular than that.

 

And what CAD work do they do on the Surface exactly? I doubt they do the heavy lifting on it, since it has such limited hardware. The CAD tasks that would work well on the Surface Pro are most likely the type of things that would work on the iPad as well.

You have a limited mind that needs thing spelled out so meticulously. Have some imagination dude. Do a bit of thinking. 

 

No, the point is NOT "All CAD users are surface users." 

It's more abstract. 

 

"CAD is limited on IOS." Let me focus in on the relevant part. 

 

"is LIMITED on IOS" 

OK, now 20x zoom in "LIMITED" 

 

I hope this answers your question. 

 

IOS! Limited. Windows. Not Limited. 

 

IOS is Apple eccosystem. Windows, not as limited with Apple stuff. 

 

Surface, a cool 2in1 THAT'S NOT LIMITED by software. 

[LAwLz]

Just now, Sharp_3yE said:

Surface, a cool 2in1 THAT'S NOT LIMITED by software. 

1) The Surface can be limited by software. It just depends on what you want to do. If you want to use some particular Windows program that doesn't exist for iOS then sure, it's limited, but the exact reverse could be said too.

2) If it's limited by the hardware does it really matter if it's not "limited by software"? It doesn't change what the user can do on the device.

 

That has been my arguments the entire time.

You can't just say iOS "is limited by software" without knowing which software users want to run. I'd say that 90% of people would not be limited by iOS. Another 9,99% of users would be limited, but would also be limited (by hardware or software) on the Surface Pro. So that leaves 0,01% of people that might have a need for the Surface Pro. Still a decent amount of people, but hardly enough to make a blanket statement like "lol, iOS doesn't run the software people use".

[Distinctly Average]

2 minutes ago, Sharp_3yE said:

You have a limited mind that needs thing spelled out so meticulously. Have some imagination dude. Do a bit of thinking. 

 

No, the point is NOT "All CAD users are surface users." 

It's more abstract. 

 

"CAD is limited on IOS." Let me focus in on the relevant part. 

 

"is LIMITED on IOS" 

OK, now 20x zoom in "LIMITED" 

 

I hope this answers your question. 

 

IOS! Limited. Windows. Not Limited. 

 

IOS is Apple eccosystem. Windows, not as limited with Apple stuff. 

 

Surface, a cool 2in1 THAT'S NOT LIMITED by software. 

I do hate these Willy waving discussions. I use both ecosystems and at times working together in a complementary way. For instance, I was using my iPad Pro and Apple Pencil as a graphics tablet to edit photos on my PC in Photoshop. Works a treat for selections. Both devices have their place and are superb at what they do. Sure, it would be great to see many Mac apps running on an iPad, there are also iPad apps I would love to see on windows. Having also owned older surface devices I found them very good too, but for me at least they were not reliable. Hopefully the new models are better.

[Sharp_3yE]

Lol I thought you were Lawlz

[Daethz]

Can you buy the lowest size harddrive and just swap in a samsung 980 pro and improve performance/have way more storage for cheap?

[Sharp_3yE]

33 minutes ago, Distinctly Average said:

I do hate these Willy waving discussions. I use both ecosystems and at times working together in a complementary way. For instance, I was using my iPad Pro and Apple Pencil as a graphics tablet to edit photos on my PC in Photoshop. Works a treat for selections. Both devices have their place and are superb at what they do. Sure, it would be great to see many Mac apps running on an iPad, there are also iPad apps I would love to see on windows. Having also owned older surface devices I found them very good too, but for me at least they were not reliable. Hopefully the new models are better.

Yea, to each their own. 

 

Find what Yea like. Plenty of people like Surface or a different 2in1 and some like Apple Ecco system. 

 

But it's not hard to imagine why people would like either. They are different and have their strengths and weaknesses. 

 

I've seen an artist outside a strip mall right out front of a Starbucks drawing using a Surface Pro. He had a wooden stand and a glove to make sure his fingers didn't interact wjth the screen. 

 

He had a 2 or 3 year old one as well. This was already a few years ago. But it was working well for him. 

 

 About 10 years ago I saw one of someone's office device was an iPad mini and a 3rd party keyboard. This person wanted to use their iPad as a mini 2in1. That's back when IOS and ipads weren't build in mind for that stuff. 

 

Soo, people will use what they can and like. People have all kinds of resins for using a particular thing. 

[Sharp_3yE]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

1) The Surface can be limited by software. It just depends on what you want to do. If you want to use some particular Windows program that doesn't exist for iOS then sure, it's limited, but the exact reverse could be said too.

2) If it's limited by the hardware does it really matter if it's not "limited by software"? It doesn't change what the user can do on the device.

 

That has been my arguments the entire time.

You can't just say iOS "is limited by software" without knowing which software users want to run. I'd say that 90% of people would not be limited by iOS. Another 9,99% of users would be limited, but would also be limited (by hardware or software) on the Surface Pro. So that leaves 0,01% of people that might have a need for the Surface Pro. Still a decent amount of people, but hardly enough to make a blanket statement like "lol, iOS doesn't run the software people use".

 To Each their own. 

 

Your point is mute. Why do people choose Windows over Mac? Why do people choose Android over iPhone? Why do people choose Apple over others? 

 

There's many reasons why and we tell you a few and you're like "Well not everyone uses CAD! Not everyone needs full programs. Not everyone needs that specific hardware of that device."

 

NO Sh**! 

 

I can't tell the billions of reasons why billions of people use one device over another. 

 

Does everyone need a pen? No. So why do people buy a device that supports a pen?

They liked that device and that device supports a pen. 

 

It doesn't matter. 

 

A few BIG reasons why people buy a Windows 2in1 devices is 

 

1. THEY LIKE WINDOWS! Simple as that. 

2. A Windows 2in1 is more flexible for what they want to do or maybe for what future stuff they want to do. 

3. It's full windows so they have everything that full windows offers. 

 

So why do people buy a Kia Car instead of a Chevy, or Nissan, or Tessla, or what ever brand? IDK There's many reason. Their neighbor had it and they like it. It looks sexy to them. They found a good deal. 

 

Frankly, it doesn't matter every reason. 

 

When it comes to computer devices, most would be happy with a $400 laptop and that's all they need. 

 

So why a Surface Pro instead of a $400 laptop? Speed, pen support, portability, light, or simply it looks sexy. That's what many people buy cuz it's good enough for their work and not expensive. 

 

You're spending way to much time thinking about arbitrary things for why people buy something when you're not a person selling computers. 

 

[SansVarnic]

On 9/22/2021 at 2:50 PM, gjsman said:

Surface makes Apple look cheap.

I'll get hate for this but, Apple makes Apple look cheap.

[HenrySalayne]

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

1) The Surface can be limited by software. It just depends on what you want to do. If you want to use some particular Windows program that doesn't exist for iOS then sure, it's limited, but the exact reverse could be said too.

2) If it's limited by the hardware does it really matter if it's not "limited by software"? It doesn't change what the user can do on the device.

 

That has been my arguments the entire time.

You can't just say iOS "is limited by software" without knowing which software users want to run. I'd say that 90% of people would not be limited by iOS. Another 9,99% of users would be limited, but would also be limited (by hardware or software) on the Surface Pro. So that leaves 0,01% of people that might have a need for the Surface Pro. Still a decent amount of people, but hardly enough to make a blanket statement like "lol, iOS doesn't run the software people use".

Just a reminder: I originally stated

This is by definition true if there is one piece of software people use which doesn't run on the iPad. And I named one. So any argument about this statement is futile.

 

Hence, we are on page three of your iPad marketing campaign - ehh - marketing crusade (because it's a holy war), in a thread about the launch of a new Surface lineup.There is nothing about iPads in the original article.

 

And I don't understand why you cannot accept that some people buy an Surface device because it fits their needs? And it gets more and more arbitrary. Saying things like "You can't just say iOS "is limited by software" without knowing which software users want to run." and following it up with made-up numbers from your own mind is just mindbogglingly ironic. Statistical numbers out of thin air are not a good basis to argue against a statement which has been proven by many examples. 

So maybe we can stop the "discussion" at this point and if you like to you could start a new thread about it.

 

[Arika]

45 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

And I don't understand why you cannot accept that some people buy an Surface device because it fits their needs?

Lawlz isn't saying that people shouldn't buy a surface if it suits their needs, he's saying they are expensive for what they are. Back when the surface pro was new, sure they could command the price they were asking for, because there was nothing else like it. But now there are so many surface pro clones for much cheaper. If you need the tablet for factor with a detachable keyboard, surface is bad value.

I should know, I used to have a pro 6

[LAwLz]

3 hours ago, Sharp_3yE said:

 To Each their own. 

I think you have missed significant parts of the conversation and as a result misunderstand where I stand in this debate.

"To each their own" has been my stance on this for the entire conversation. The whole argument started like this:

 

Someone: The M1 iPad Pro is the most powerful 2-in-1.

Someone else: And it won't run the software you need.

Me: I think 90% of people would do just fine with an M1 iPad with iPadOS. It will do what most people need it to do.

 

Then there has been a ton of back and forth between me and Henry where he says that's not true and people wouldn't be able to use an iPad because of the OS limitations, and me saying that most people are not affected by those limitations because their needs are simple, but if you do have some specific needs then the iPad is clearly not the right device.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, HenrySalayne said:

And I don't understand why you cannot accept that some people buy an Surface device because it fits their needs?

I do accept that. All I am saying is that the group of people who actually need a Surface Pro, and couldn't do the things they want to do on an iPad, is really small.

[HenrySalayne]

6 hours ago, LAwLz said:

All I am saying is that the group of people who actually need a Surface Pro, and couldn't do the things they want to do on an iPad, is really small.

Where is a source for this statement? And where are those people? I don't know anyone with a Surface device who could use an iPad. And how do you explain this statistical abnormality? Do you know any Surface users and do you know why they don't have an iPad?

 

7 hours ago, LAwLz said:

he says that's not true and people wouldn't be able to use an iPad because of the OS limitations

Let me quickly get that right:

Quote

he says that's not true and most surface users wouldn't be able to use an iPad because of the OS limitations

I already said that the average Jane and Joe (= people in general) would do just fine with Macbooks, cheap Windows machines, iPads or "who cares". So why do we not see these people buying iPads left, right and centre and using them as their main computer? Because compared to an Macbook the iPad doesn't offer any advantage and is more expensive. If we take a look at my made-up numbers, 98.3% of people don't need touch- or pen-support and 99.7% of the population thinks that a single USB-C connector is not enough.

If you think this is an worthwhile discussion, please feel free to continue.

 

8 hours ago, Arika S said:

surface is bad value.

Everybody has already agreed on that.

[Sharp_3yE]

18 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I think you have missed significant parts of the conversation and as a result misunderstand where I stand in this debate.

"To each their own" has been my stance on this for the entire conversation. The whole argument started like this:

 

Someone: The M1 iPad Pro is the most powerful 2-in-1.

Someone else: And it won't run the software you need.

Me: I think 90% of people would do just fine with an M1 iPad with iPadOS. It will do what most people need it to do.

 

Then there has been a ton of back and forth between me and Henry where he says that's not true and people wouldn't be able to use an iPad because of the OS limitations, and me saying that most people are not affected by those limitations because their needs are simple, but if you do have some specific needs then the iPad is clearly not the right device.

 

 

 

I do accept that. All I am saying is that the group of people who actually need a Surface Pro, and couldn't do the things they want to do on an iPad, is really small.

K lol 

 

I thought you were forcing it more. I guess he's forcing his ideas more. 

 

Personally, I'd never buy an iPad for myself and that's me.