DT 990 600ohm - ifi nano idsd le - smsl sp200???

[JioFunny]

Hello, so I too have a dt990 600 ohm.

 

I was initially planning to get a liquid spark amp because we all know it's warmer bla bla. But!! How does it compare to SMSL sp200? I know this is a kinda different class amp and a bit more expensive, and I know it performs a bit better from what I have read, but how much better? Is it worth it? At the same time I fear that even if it performs better, maybe it is not as warm as liquid spark so it will be too harsh? But maybe I don't mind that if it gives bass much more body and brings the mids a bit more to life? But is that true? 

 

One more question.

I have an ifi nano idsd le Dac which I will pair with whatever amp I end up buying but.. does aaanyone know how this dac compares and competes against a topping d10 or E30? Should I perhaps try to sell it and get a topping d10 or e30? Would it have an audible difference with the DT 990? Or help with harsh treble perhaps?

 

Some help would be super greatly appreciated!!

[BobVonBob]

Maybe my ears just suck from nearly two decades of battering them with brass instruments, but in my experience anyone that claims they can hear a difference between good amps is lying to themselves. Past a certain point (imo around $50 USD) any headphone amp that has enough power to drive your headphones to a reasonable volume will sound the same, and if it doesn't sound the same it's a bad amp. Amps shouldn't change the sound, that's what an equalizer is for. Make of this what you will.

[rice guru]

Liquid spark vs sp200. So200 is quite the opposite from the liquid spark while the liquid spark as you say you know is warm the sp200 has better detail retention. Worse spatial performance as staging feels a bit meh. It's sound signature is neutral bright and it overall sounds clinical. It's timbre sounds artificial. From a dac standpoint is the only way imo to fix the amp is by buying a r2r dac. If you want a amp in this price range just get a asgard 3 it does lean warm but to me performs way better than pretty much any thx amp where it lacks and is no slouch with detail. And due to its slightly warm signature is a way better pairing for the dt 990 than a sp200.

[JioFunny]

8 hours ago, BobVonBob said:

Maybe my ears just suck from nearly two decades of battering them with brass instruments, but in my experience anyone that claims they can hear a difference between good amps is lying to themselves. Past a certain point (imo around $50 USD) any headphone amp that has enough power to drive your headphones to a reasonable volume will sound the same, and if it doesn't sound the same it's a bad amp. Amps shouldn't change the sound, that's what an equalizer is for. Make of this what you will.

Hello, thank you for the reply, but I kinda disagree here. I kinda understand what you are saying though and the fact that you actually gotta pay a bit more attention to realise the differences, but they do exist. I'm no audio expert at all, but whenever I change something I can just tell it's different.

[JioFunny]

18 minutes ago, rice guru said:

Liquid spark vs sp200. So200 is quite the opposite from the liquid spark while the liquid spark as you say you know is warm the sp200 has better detail retention. Worse spatial performance as staging feels a bit meh. It's sound signature is neutral bright and it overall sounds clinical. It's timbre sounds artificial. From a dac standpoint is the only way imo to fix the amp is by buying a r2r dac. If you want a amp in this price range just get a asgard 3 it does lean warm but to me performs way better than pretty much any thx amp where it lacks and is no slouch with detail. And due to its slightly warm signature is a way better pairing for the dt 990 than a sp200.

This is what I thought of the sp200.. I just wanted someone to confirm. The reason I was thinking about the sp200 instead of liquid spark is because maybe it performed much better and also the fact that it is stronger. 

So, putting sp200 to the side.

Truth is asgard 3 is way over my budget, as sp200 was too and it's slightly cheaper.

So now the question is: Do you think asgard 3 really outperforms liquid spark? Will liquid spark drive the 600 ohm well enough? To be honest I don't ever crack the volume to full.. and I game too. Let's say I have good hearing..

You might wonder why I ask if it is over my budget, well if asgard 3 noticeably outperforms and pairs with dt 990 better than liquid spark, then I have no problem waiting a long time till I get a good deal for it.. maybe black friday.. who knows.. and flex my budget a bit as well and get it.

Thank you for the info!!

[Stahlmann]

53 minutes ago, JioFunny said:

Hello, thank you for the reply, but I kinda disagree here. I kinda understand what you are saying though and the fact that you actually gotta pay a bit more attention to realise the differences, but they do exist. I'm no audio expert at all, but whenever I change something I can just tell it's different.

I kinda agree with @BobVonBob to some degree. I lied to myself for years thinking that higher-end AMPs improve audio quality. But tbh i just cannot hear a difference in sound quality between onboard audio, my former Asus Essence STX II sound card and the DAC/AMP i have now which is the FiiO K5 Pro. The only difference is the volume my heaphones can achieve. If you want better audio, start with the headphones themself before investing hundreds of $ into an expensive AMP.

 

My jump from the DT990 Edition 600Ohm to the Amiron Home was way bigger than any AMP could achieve.

[JioFunny]

48 minutes ago, Stahlmann said:

I kinda agree with @BobVonBob to some degree. I lied to myself for years thinking that higher-end AMPs improve audio quality. But tbh i just cannot hear a difference in sound quality between onboard audio, my former Asus Essence STX II sound card and the DAC/AMP i have now which is the FiiO K5 Pro. The only difference is the volume my heaphones can achieve. If you want better audio, start with the headphones themself before investing hundreds of $ into an expensive AMP.

 

My jump from the DT990 Edition 600Ohm to the Amiron Home was way bigger than any AMP could achieve.

I see. I do agree with the fact that headphones will make the difference. What I am trying to get though is the best audio for a certain budget. But, after what you said, I think it would make more sense to surely go for the liquid spark amp. It is cheaper and can drive 600 ohm, maybe not as good as asgard 3, but well enough. And if I do end up changing headphones in the future.. those are 250 ohm.. and it can surely drive that.

Thank you!

[JioFunny]

1 hour ago, Stahlmann said:

I kinda agree with @BobVonBob to some degree. I lied to myself for years thinking that higher-end AMPs improve audio quality. But tbh i just cannot hear a difference in sound quality between onboard audio, my former Asus Essence STX II sound card and the DAC/AMP i have now which is the FiiO K5 Pro. The only difference is the volume my heaphones can achieve. If you want better audio, start with the headphones themself before investing hundreds of $ into an expensive AMP.

 

My jump from the DT990 Edition 600Ohm to the Amiron Home was way bigger than any AMP could achieve.

I have 1 question. Were you using the fiio k5pro also when you used the dt 990 600 ohm? The reason I ask is because, have you ever thought that your DT 990 600 ohm did not have as much a big of a gap as what you say compared to the Amiron home as far as sound detail/quality is concerned? Fiio k5pro can properly fully drive up to 300 ohm. Have you tried it with a more powerful amp?

 

I used to read lots of what others said about amps and dac and stuff.. and that it is useless to get a dac-amp for your headphones and stuff if they are low impedance etc. And that you only gotta get one if your headphones are not loud enough. So 3 years ago I went in a store to buy DT 990 the low ohm version.. it was the 32 as far as I remember. I went home, plugged it in to my Samsung galaxy s8 and.. I was sooo disappointed. They sounded worse than some 50 dollar small headphones I had around. To be specific it was not about them being piercy but that the vocals were soo far away and when I turned the volume up the sound of all the rest was overwhelming and recipe for headache.

So the next day I went back to the store to return them. The owner asked why and I explained. He said come here and he took them and plugged them in to an entry level 70 dollar DAC/amp. I put them on in my head and chose the same song I listened to compare. Tears came out of my eyes. I felt alive. Vocals came forward and earned body.. bass was fuller.. it was amazing. This is my personal experience..

[rice guru]

3 hours ago, JioFunny said:

This is what I thought of the sp200.. I just wanted someone to confirm. The reason I was thinking about the sp200 instead of liquid spark is because maybe it performed much better and also the fact that it is stronger. 

So, putting sp200 to the side.

Truth is asgard 3 is way over my budget, as sp200 was too and it's slightly cheaper.

So now the question is: Do you think asgard 3 really outperforms liquid spark? Will liquid spark drive the 600 ohm well enough? To be honest I don't ever crack the volume to full.. and I game too. Let's say I have good hearing..

You might wonder why I ask if it is over my budget, well if asgard 3 noticeably outperforms and pairs with dt 990 better than liquid spark, then I have no problem waiting a long time till I get a good deal for it.. maybe black friday.. who knows.. and flex my budget a bit as well and get it.

Thank you for the info!!

I think the asgard 3 outperforms basically all amps sub $300 currently as a all around package I would even stretch it to sub $400 as being beats most amps in that segment as well. I still personally think the liquid spark is a better pairing and arguably the best pairing for the 990 also from a price perspective as I generally don't reccomend spending more on amp than the headphone. But as an overall amp the magni 3+ is the best imo in the sub $200. 

[Stahlmann]

7 minutes ago, JioFunny said:

I have 1 question. Were you using the fiio k5pro also when you used the dt 990 600 ohm? The reason I ask is because, have you ever thought that your DT 990 600 ohm did not have as much a big of a gap as what you say compared to the Amiron home as far as sound detail/quality is concerned? Fiio k5pro can properly fully drive up to 300 ohm. Have you tried it with a more powerful amp?

I did try the DT990 with the FiiO and the Asus sound card. Both had plenty of power to properly drive the DT990. Both AMPs were enough to drive them loud enough to hurt my ears.

 

But the main difference the Amiron made is a much more balanced and neutral sound profile and less distortion at higher volumes. When i ran the DT990 i used an equalizer most of the time to tone the treble down to make them more comfortable to listen to. No need for any of that with the Amiron. They will probalby stay at my side for the forseeable future. Knowing how good the Beyerdynamic support and warranty service is that could be a long time.

 

As a side note i also tried the DT1990 before going with the Amiron. But the 1990 is very uncomfortable and somehow sounds even sharper in the treble than the DT990. Not advised for home useage imo.

 

7 minutes ago, JioFunny said:

I used to read lots of what others said about amps and dac and stuff.. and that it is useless to get a dac-amp for your headphones and stuff if they are low impedance etc. And that you only gotta get one if your headphones are not loud enough. So 3 years ago I went in a store to buy DT 990 the low ohm version.. it was the 32 as far as I remember. I went home, plugged it in to my Samsung galaxy s8 and.. I was sooo disappointed. They sounded worse than some 50 dollar small headphones I had around. To be specific it was not about them being piercy but that the vocals were soo far away and when I turned the volume up the sound of all the rest was overwhelming and recipe for headache.

So the next day I went back to the store to return them. The owner asked why and I explained. He said come here and he took them and plugged them in to an entry level 70 dollar DAC/amp. I put them on in my head and chose the same song I listened to compare. Tears came out of my eyes. I felt alive. Vocals came forward and earned body.. bass was fuller.. it was amazing. This is my personal experience..

While i still had my DT990 600Ohm headphones and i had to run off onboard audio one time, i did also notice a lack of "dynamic range" if you can call it that. It just sounded flat and unexciting. But that was also at a time when i had a very entry-level motherboard with a pretty cheap audio solution. But between my current onboard audio, sound card and dedicated amp i can not tell a difference other than how loud the DT990 could go. Same with the Amiron. The only difference i get is the loudness.

 

But i wouldn't be surprised if a phone had the same onboard audio solution as a cheap motherboard.

[JioFunny]

3 hours ago, rice guru said:

I think the asgard 3 outperforms basically all amps sub $300 currently as a all around package I would even stretch it to sub $400 as being beats most amps in that segment as well. I still personally think the liquid spark is a better pairing and arguably the best pairing for the 990 also from a price perspective as I generally don't reccomend spending more on amp than the headphone. But as an overall amp the magni 3+ is the best imo in the sub $200. 

I see. Last question. Considering I will go with liquid spark, is there a possibility the 250 ohm performs better than the 600 ohm? So basically is the liquid spark powerful enough to have the 600ohm perform? Forget about loudness.. like I said I don't crack the volume ever. I just want to get the most out of the 600 ohm headphone

[JioFunny]

3 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

I did try the DT990 with the FiiO and the Asus sound card. Both had plenty of power to properly drive the DT990. Both AMPs were enough to drive them loud enough to hurt my ears.

 

But the main difference the Amiron made is a much more balanced and neutral sound profile and less distortion at higher volumes. When i ran the DT990 i used an equalizer most of the time to tone the treble down to make them more comfortable to listen to. No need for any of that with the Amiron. They will probalby stay at my side for the forseeable future. Knowing how good the Beyerdynamic support and warranty service is that could be a long time.

 

As a side note i also tried the DT1990 before going with the Amiron. But the 1990 is very uncomfortable and somehow sounds even sharper in the treble than the DT990. Not advised for home useage imo.

 

While i still had my DT990 600Ohm headphones and i had to run off onboard audio one time, i did also notice a lack of "dynamic range" if you can call it that. It just sounded flat and unexciting. But that was also at a time when i had a very entry-level motherboard with a pretty cheap audio solution. But between my current onboard audio, sound card and dedicated amp i can not tell a difference other than how loud the DT990 could go. Same with the Amiron. The only difference i get is the loudness.

 

But i wouldn't be surprised if a phone had the same onboard audio solution as a cheap motherboard.

I see.. I actually didn't believe much to the 400-500 dollar headphones but after searching a bit that is what other say as well. Unfortunately it's out of my budget at the moment because I also gotta get an amp but it is surely something to note for the future. Valuable info. Thank you.

[rice guru]

18 minutes ago, JioFunny said:

I see. Last question. Considering I will go with liquid spark, is there a possibility the 250 ohm performs better than the 600 ohm? So basically is the liquid spark powerful enough to have the 600ohm perform? Forget about loudness.. like I said I don't crack the volume ever. I just want to get the most out of the 600 ohm headphone

The whole debate where the 600 880 and 990 need a ton of power kinda sucks. Imo the liquid spark is enough for 600 990 , and 880. You should have enough power to blast both headphones to the loudness you want and they have enough power to be at at 95% arguable a 100% their whole potential. From my experience they do benefit from a better amp but not to the point where the difference is really worth the extra cash imo. Only time I truly reccomend a better amp for the 990 is if you go full enthusiast and k ow your gonna buy better headphones that benefit much more from.a better amp. The main benefit imo from getting a 600 ohm 990 is getting a objectively better headphone for basically the same price.

 

[CTR640]

On 9/22/2021 at 4:50 PM, JioFunny said:

I see. Last question. Considering I will go with liquid spark, is there a possibility the 250 ohm performs better than the 600 ohm? So basically is the liquid spark powerful enough to have the 600ohm perform? Forget about loudness.. like I said I don't crack the volume ever. I just want to get the most out of the 600 ohm headphone

The DT770/880/990 are much less efficient to be used on devices like smartphones and any other portable devices. They are also very inefficient on some onboard audio on motherboards like mine. I had the DT880 250ohm and while I loved it, I need to make some space on my desk so I sold it. And I had the Fiio E10K and the audio is very very much the same to my motherboard audio, you won't be able to hear the difference except the E10K has a lot of power for the DT series. I had the DT770 250ohm too and the efficiency is the same. But I didn't like the 770 because it's fatiguing. It doesn't have the piercing treble, it's just fatiguing quickly. The DT880 is probably the best of the DT series.

 

The DT1770 and 1990 are Tesla drivers and they should be efficient so no need to have an amp. Like Stahlmann, I have the Amiron Home and the Fiio K5 Pro and the Amiron Home have Tesla drivers too and can be used on portable devices just fine. But you also have to remind yourself about the efficiency in SPL nominance. My Tygr 300R is 32ohm and yet the volume knob of my K5 Pro is the same as when using my Amiron Home.

 

On 9/22/2021 at 4:57 PM, JioFunny said:

I see.. I actually didn't believe much to the 400-500 dollar headphones but after searching a bit that is what other say as well. Unfortunately it's out of my budget at the moment because I also gotta get an amp but it is surely something to note for the future. Valuable info. Thank you.

They do to be honest. But it also comes down what you want and like. I have the Amiron Wireless Copper which I bought for €729 and I can tell you, this headphone is one of the best! Treble is clear and yet so wonderfull and laidback and smooth and bass is done very nicely. And then of course the Amiron Home, this too is one of the best! And yet it's heavily underrated.

 

The best dac/amps are probably the Fiio K5 Pro and ZEN CAN or ZEN DAC in the €150-180.

 

And to be honest, if I were you, I would get the DT880 600ohm and Fiio K5 Pro. I had the 880 250ohm and it's awesome on the K5 Pro but I had to make space so I sold it.

[rice guru]

I'm regards to the d10 vs E39 situation both sound pretty similar but the e30 has a bit of a softer tone. Honestly if your iffy in harsh treble the 880 600 ohm is honestly just the better pick. 

[JioFunny]

On 9/24/2021 at 1:14 AM, CTR640 said:

The DT770/880/990 are much less efficient to be used on devices like smartphones and any other portable devices. They are also very inefficient on some onboard audio on motherboards like mine. I had the DT880 250ohm and while I loved it, I need to make some space on my desk so I sold it. And I had the Fiio E10K and the audio is very very much the same to my motherboard audio, you won't be able to hear the difference except the E10K has a lot of power for the DT series. I had the DT770 250ohm too and the efficiency is the same. But I didn't like the 770 because it's fatiguing. It doesn't have the piercing treble, it's just fatiguing quickly. The DT880 is probably the best of the DT series.

 

The DT1770 and 1990 are Tesla drivers and they should be efficient so no need to have an amp. Like Stahlmann, I have the Amiron Home and the Fiio K5 Pro and the Amiron Home have Tesla drivers too and can be used on portable devices just fine. But you also have to remind yourself about the efficiency in SPL nominance. My Tygr 300R is 32ohm and yet the volume knob of my K5 Pro is the same as when using my Amiron Home.

 

They do to be honest. But it also comes down what you want and like. I have the Amiron Wireless Copper which I bought for €729 and I can tell you, this headphone is one of the best! Treble is clear and yet so wonderfull and laidback and smooth and bass is done very nicely. And then of course the Amiron Home, this too is one of the best! And yet it's heavily underrated.

 

The best dac/amps are probably the Fiio K5 Pro and ZEN CAN or ZEN DAC in the €150-180.

 

And to be honest, if I were you, I would get the DT880 600ohm and Fiio K5 Pro. I had the 880 250ohm and it's awesome on the K5 Pro but I had to make space so I sold it.

Thanks for the info! I wanted DT 990 because I wanted something to help me with fps gaming.. and I thought it would be the best option among the DT series. Then.. even though I have been looking and searching MONTHS to decide with which setup I'm gonna go, I realised my very top priority is the competitive edge in gaming.. even though I game rarely. But that will be the purpose of the headphones I'll get so.. I decided to go with sennheiser hd 560s. They are better for FPS gaming because bass does not drown footsteps or other stuff and it has better separation with about the same soundstage and imaging. 

I have not decided on which DAC-amp combo or dac and amp separately because I thought it's better to get the headphones first, see what they sound like, and decide wether I want to go full balanced or perhaps give a bit more body and warmth and perhaps choose even a tube amp.

This is my final decision and I wanted to give an update here so this post is complete.

 

By the way.. if anyone has dac/amp combo to suggest for the hd560s and can explain why that combo would fit, then I can compare to my experience and make my decision.. it'd be really cool!

[rice guru]

23 minutes ago, JioFunny said:

Thanks for the info! I wanted DT 990 because I wanted something to help me with fps gaming.. and I thought it would be the best option among the DT series. Then.. even though I have been looking and searching MONTHS to decide with which setup I'm gonna go, I realised my very top priority is the competitive edge in gaming.. even though I game rarely. But that will be the purpose of the headphones I'll get so.. I decided to go with sennheiser hd 560s. They are better for FPS gaming because bass does not drown footsteps or other stuff and it has better separation with about the same soundstage and imaging. 

I have not decided on which DAC-amp combo or dac and amp separately because I thought it's better to get the headphones first, see what they sound like, and decide wether I want to go full balanced or perhaps give a bit more body and warmth and perhaps choose even a tube amp.

This is my final decision and I wanted to give an update here so this post is complete.

 

By the way.. if anyone has dac/amp combo to suggest for the hd560s and can explain why that combo would fit, then I can compare to my experience and make my decision.. it'd be really cool!

The 560s is on the brighter side of things. And doesn't really require much power. A good $200 stack is the classic magni 3+ modi stack pairs well plenty of power for future headphones but unnecessary. Another good pairing is the zen dac. If your willing to get a new cable for the 560s that is balanced. The zen dac has moderately good amount of power and leans on the warmer side of amps but still pretty neutral. Also comes packed with a good bass boost if your I to that the balanced cable is connected as the amp sounds it's best balanced. 

[JioFunny]

9 minutes ago, rice guru said:

The 560s is on the brighter side of things. And doesn't really require much power. A good $200 stack is the classic magni 3+ modi stack pairs well plenty of power for future headphones but unnecessary. Another good pairing is the zen dac. If your willing to get a new cable for the 560s that is balanced. The zen dac has moderately good amount of power and leans on the warmer side of amps but still pretty neutral. Also comes packed with a good bass boost if your I to that the balanced cable is connected as the amp sounds it's best balanced. 

I see that the cable 560s comes with is balanced on the 2.5mm side and unbalanced in the 3.5/6.35mm side. So how does the zen dac work? I have to get a cable that is 2.5mm balanced to - mini XLR? Or?

One more question. Say I do get a balanced cable, will audio turn to mono? And I won't be able to use it for gaming for example? Or that has nothing to do? (Sorry newbie question)

[rice guru]

You will need a 560 compatible cable that goes to 4.4 pentaconn . And no balanced will not turn it mono. If anything many people claim the opposite making things sound more separated 

[JioFunny]

5 minutes ago, rice guru said:

You will need a 560 compatible cable that goes to 4.4 pentaconn . And no balanced will not turn it mono. If anything many people claim the opposite making things sound more separated 

Thank you very much for everything!! Much appreciated.

[rice guru]

Just now, JioFunny said:

Thank you very much for everything!! Much appreciated.

No problem always glad to help.