Medium size air cooler suggestions?

[porina]

Yesterday was a frustrating day. I decided to put more ram in my system with Asus B560M-A mobo. This is micro-ATX so limited in where I can move stuff. With 4 sticks of ram fitted, the stick nearest the Arctic Freezer 34 eSports duo cooler was pushed on by the fan. I didn't like that. The cooler was semi-temporary with the intent I'd move in a better cooler like a Noctua D15, but that was no go. In front-back orientation I couldn't use the only CPU connected PCIe slot. In up-down orientation the heatpipes hit the ram. After some thinking I swapped in a Deepcool Lucifer V2, but this isn't great either. The cooler barely fits. The fan clips actually rest on the GPU backplate, and I could only put the fan on back sucking to not interfere with the ram. Also, the original fan would not fit, I used an alternate 120mm fan as a placeholder but it is a bit noisy even with a Noctua resistor cable.

 

So I need an air cooler meeting the following requirements:

Height: 165mm class should be ok - case is the original Anidees Ai Crystal

Width: Don't know what the exact limit is here. The D15 that is definitely too big is specified as 150mm. The Lucifer is 140mm and that is right on the limit. I would aim to be clearly below that to be safe.

Due to the cramped mobo, the ram slots start as soon as possible after the mobo-cooler mounting holes. Either that area needs to be kept clear, or the fan needs to fit above the ram, which I don't think is possible for a good cooler meeting the height requirements. Note I'm using Corsair Vengeance Pro, which is a taller ram module than most.

Optional: The ram is RGB, so not obscuring it is a plus but not essential.

 

I'm thinking maybe one of the mid-range Noctua coolers might fit here, but I'm not familiar with them so will be looking up after. I'm not familiar with other brands in this space since I've always gone large in the past.

[Skiiwee29]

Scythe Fuma 2 would be a great option IMO. 137mm Wide, 155mm tall and has an offset that should prevent conflict with the RAM slots as it uses a 15mm slim fan there and a standard 25mm in the center. 

 

Images taken from the Tweaktown Review of the cooler found here: https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/9223/scythe-fuma-2-cpu-cooler-review/index.html

 

 

[suedseefrucht]

20 minutes ago, porina said:

So I need an air cooler meeting the following requirements:

Height: 165mm class should be ok - case is the original Anidees Ai Crystal

Width: Don't know what the exact limit is here. The D15 that is definitely too big is specified as 150mm. The Lucifer is 140mm and that is right on the limit. I would aim to be clearly below that to be safe.

I use the be quiet! Shadow Rock Slim and I like it.

 

[porina]

6 minutes ago, Skiiwee29 said:

Scythe Fuma 2 would be a great option IMO. 137mm Wide, 155mm tall and has an offset that should prevent conflict with the RAM slots as it uses a 15mm slim fan there and a standard 25mm in the center. 

Ooh, I like the looks of that. This is exactly the sort of thing I didn't know existed. I'll need to do some more research into its cooling potential relative to others. Of note is the Arctic 34 and Noctua D15. Somewhere in between would be ideal.

 

In looking around the Noctua offerings, the U12A seems to be the best performing medium cooler but I'm still a little concerned about ram clearance based on some images I found of it in use. U12S is probably not that different from the Arctic 34.

[Skiiwee29]

2 minutes ago, porina said:

Ooh, I like the looks of that. This is exactly the sort of thing I didn't know existed. I'll need to do some more research into its cooling potential relative to others. Of note is the Arctic 34 and Noctua D15. Somewhere in between would be ideal.

 

In looking around the Noctua offerings, the U12A seems to be the best performing medium cooler but I'm still a little concerned about ram clearance based on some images I found of it in use. U12S is probably not that different from the Arctic 34.

Remember that with single fan tower coolers, you could always flip the fan and have it as pull instead of push as well. However, I do know the Fuma 2 has a cult like following and is an extremely popular dual tower budget cooler. 

[Vishera]

5 minutes ago, porina said:

I'll need to do some more research into its cooling potential relative to others.

The Scythe Fuma 2 goes head to head with the NH-D15,

They are very close in performance.

 

[porina]

  

5 minutes ago, suedseefrucht said:

I use the be quiet! Shadow Rock Slim and I like it.

Looks to be around same class as the Arctic 34 and I'd like to go a bit higher.

 

1 minute ago, Skiiwee29 said:

Remember that with single fan tower coolers, you could always flip the fan and have it as pull instead of push as well. However, I do know the Fuma 2 has a cult like following and is an extremely popular dual tower budget cooler. 

"budget"? Well, compared to Noctua, maybe?  The Noctua U12A is £90 and the Fuma 2 is £70. To me, that's still a fair chunk of change for a cooler, but it is a one time cost.

 

1 minute ago, Vishera said:

The Scythe Fuma 2 goes head to head with the NH-D15,

They are very close in performance.

Sounds near perfect then. 

[Stahlmann]

35 minutes ago, porina said:

Ooh, I like the looks of that. This is exactly the sort of thing I didn't know existed. I'll need to do some more research into its cooling potential relative to others. Of note is the Arctic 34 and Noctua D15. Somewhere in between would be ideal.

 

In looking around the Noctua offerings, the U12A seems to be the best performing medium cooler but I'm still a little concerned about ram clearance based on some images I found of it in use. U12S is probably not that different from the Arctic 34.

The U12A is about the best medium sized cooler you can get. It comes with 2 of the best fans out there, is only 158mm tall and cooling performance is about on-par with the D15. And the RAM compatibility is 100% because the tower is offset to the motherboard I/O area:

 

 

Then add their superior build quality and customer service and you have a no-brainer. (If you're ready to pay a bit more and don't mind the colors)

[Vishera]

4 minutes ago, Stahlmann said:

The U12A is about the best medium sized cooler you can get. It comes with 2 of the best fans out there, is only 158mm tall and cooling performance is about on-par with the D15. And the RAM compatibility is 100% because the tower is offset to the motherboard I/O area:

 

In noise normalized testing at 123W the U12 was the worst on the chart with 60.9C,

Compared to the 56.3C of the NH-D15 and the 55.2C of the Fuma 2.

[porina]

Fuma 2 ordered, expected to arrive Monday although Amazon are sometimes early.

 

Did quickly scanned some written reviews. With a little uncertainty it does seem a bit better than the Noctua U12A but not quite as good as the D15, although there isn't that big a gap between any of these. One review put it equal to a D15S which I didn't even know existed until now, just a single fan version of the D15.

 

Fuma 2 is rated at 137mm width so should be narrower than the borderline Lucifer I got in. It is unclear if they are counting the fan clips in that. Worst case I can bend them over a little more. It does look like the Fuma 2 is designed with a goal of high cooling performance while maximising other component clearance.

 

1 minute ago, Stahlmann said:

The U12A is about the best medium sized cooler you can get. It comes with 2 of the best fans out there, is only 158mm tall and cooling performance is about on-par with the D15. And the RAM compatibility is 100% because the tower is offset to the motherboard I/O area:

The U12A was on my shortlist, but based on reviews the Fuma 2 seems superior, and is cheaper for me to get.

[WoodenMarker]

On 9/17/2021 at 1:51 AM, porina said:

In looking around the Noctua offerings, the U12A seems to be the best performing medium cooler but I'm still a little concerned about ram clearance based on some images I found of it in use. U12S is probably not that different from the Arctic 34.

The NH-U12A uses an offset heatsink design to completely clear the ram slots. 

On 9/17/2021 at 2:30 AM, Vishera said:

In noise normalized testing at 123W the U12 was the worst on the chart with 60.9C,

Compared to the 56.3C of the NH-D15 and the 55.2C of the Fuma 2.

Why look at a 123w test when the same review shows a 198w test with the 3950x? Those tests showed 58.6c for the NH-D15 and 59.9c for the Fuma 2 at 35dBA. 

The NH-U12S you're referring to is a smaller and weaker cooler compared to the NH-U12A. 

On 9/17/2021 at 2:30 AM, porina said:

It does look like the Fuma 2 is designed with a goal of high cooling performance while maximising other component clearance.

The U12A was on my shortlist, but based on reviews the Fuma 2 seems superior, and is cheaper for me to get.

The Fuma 2 may be a dual tower but the low rpm fans and smaller size results in performance that is near the mid-to-lower end of the dual tower cooler category. 

Reviews seem to show it performing worse than the NH-U12A. Higher heat loads tend to leave the Fuma 2 left behind by more consistent high performing air coolers like the NH-U12A or NH-D15S. 

https://www.computerbase.de/2020-11/pure-loop-test-aio-be-quiet/2/#diagramm-differenz-cpu-zu-raumtemperatur-ueber-schalldruckpegel-oc

https://www.eteknix.com/silentiumpc-navis-evo-argb-280-aio-liquid-cooler-review/5/

https://www.funkykit.com/reviews/cooling/noctua-nh-l9a-am4-compact-cpu-cooler/4/

https://hardwarecanucks.com/cooling-power/arctic-freezer-50-review/#265W

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.php/artikel/hardware/kuehlung/54010-msi-mag-coreliquid-360r-im-test.html?start=5

http://myc-media.de/noctua-nh-d15s-chromax-black-cpu-kuehler-im-test/#Testsystem

https://nl.hardware.info/artikel/9979/7/de-beste-cpu-koelers-van-dit-moment---juli-2020-testresultaten-luchtkoelers

https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/9399/scythe-mugen-5-argb-plus-cpu-cooler/index.html#Test-System-Setup-Thermal-Tests-and-Noise-Results

[porina]

5 hours ago, WoodenMarker said:

The NH-U12A uses and offset heatsink design to completely clear the ram slots.

I was unable to verify that when looking at images. Couldn't find anyone taking a shot side on while installed on the mount, and it might be perspective effects, but it looks like it was nudging the nearest ram slot, like the Arctic 34 does. Fuma 2 shows more of a possible gap.

 

5 hours ago, WoodenMarker said:

Reviews seem to show it performing worse than the NH-U12A. Higher heat loads tend to leave the Fuma 2 left behind by more consistent high performing air coolers like the NH-U12A or NH-D15S.

Since you've gone through the bother to provide a list, I'll go through the list although the decision has already been made and the Fuma 2 ordered.

 

5 hours ago, WoodenMarker said:

https://www.computerbase.de/2020-11/pure-loop-test-aio-be-quiet/2/#diagramm-differenz-cpu-zu-raumtemperatur-ueber-schalldruckpegel-oc

Hard to read chart, does suggest U12A slightly ahead of Fuma 2, both far behind D15

 

5 hours ago, WoodenMarker said:

https://www.eteknix.com/silentiumpc-navis-evo-argb-280-aio-liquid-cooler-review/5/

U12A far better than D15 far better than Fuma 2. Not going to spend time to work out what they did, that just doesn't sound right.

 

5 hours ago, WoodenMarker said:

https://www.funkykit.com/reviews/cooling/noctua-nh-l9a-am4-compact-cpu-cooler/4/

Fuma 2 slightly behind D15. No U12A result.

 

5 hours ago, WoodenMarker said:

https://hardwarecanucks.com/cooling-power/arctic-freezer-50-review/#265W

At 265W the D15 takes a clear lead, with U12A taking a smaller lead over Fuma 2. However my CPU never goes anywhere near 265W even if it is a Rocket Lake running Prime95 with AVX-512. At a more typical 125W load, the difference between the three coolers is insignificant.

 

5 hours ago, WoodenMarker said:

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.php/artikel/hardware/kuehlung/54010-msi-mag-coreliquid-360r-im-test.html?start=5

At 1000rpm, Fuma 2 came out slightly ahead, with D15 = U12A. At max fan speed, all three were equal.

 

5 hours ago, WoodenMarker said:

http://myc-media.de/noctua-nh-d15s-chromax-black-cpu-kuehler-im-test/#Testsystem

Fuma 2 slightly behind D15, U12A further back but not significantly so.

 

5 hours ago, WoodenMarker said:

https://nl.hardware.info/artikel/9979/7/de-beste-cpu-koelers-van-dit-moment---juli-2020-testresultaten-luchtkoelers

At 95W 40 dBA we have D15 > U12A > Fuma 2, but not a big spread between them. If you limit it to 30 dBA, the Fuma 2 falls off more.

 

5 hours ago, WoodenMarker said:

https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/9399/scythe-mugen-5-argb-plus-cpu-cooler/index.html#Test-System-Setup-Thermal-Tests-and-Noise-Results

The "overclocked" results also show D15 > U12A > Fuma 2, but not a big spread between them.

 

And one you missed:

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/scythe-fuma-2-dual-tower-cpu-cooler/6.html

Several test scenarios here, but take away is all three coolers aren't so different in performance.

 

I think I looked at more but I can't remember who they were. 

 

Overall the U12A and Fuma 2 are within tolerance of each other under stock loads or lightly overclocked conditions. A degree or two difference is of no practical significance. The decision on picking a cooler then comes down to other factors than performance alone. Absolute best cooling performance was NOT stated as a requirement. I didn't dig deep into each test's methodology, since it could vary more depending on things like fan settings of the test platform.

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

Cooler has already been bought but if anyone else is looking for a compact high performing cooler. Do consider the thermalright pa120 which is both cheaper and higher performing than the fuma 2(Fuma 2 is still more silent with the lower rpm fan). 

 

The silver soul 135 is also another compact dual tower to consider but I believe this is pricier.

[WoodenMarker]

20 hours ago, porina said:

I was unable to verify that when looking at images. Couldn't find anyone taking a shot side on while installed on the mount, and it might be perspective effects, but it looks like it was nudging the nearest ram slot, like the Arctic 34 does. Fuma 2 shows more of a possible gap.

There are socket zones that manufacturers can use when designing coolers to completely clear motherboard components. https://noctua.at/en/how-big-is-the-nh-u12a-and-how-much-clearance-does-it-provide-for-ram-and-motherboard-heatsinks

Googling images for '[cooler name] ram clearance' is also a good way to find examples.

From Tweaktown's reviews: 

https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/9057/noctua-nh-u12a-cpu-cooler-review/index.html

https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/9223/scythe-fuma-2-cpu-cooler-review/index.html

[porina]

On 9/19/2021 at 5:01 AM, WoodenMarker said:

There are socket zones that manufacturers can use when designing coolers to completely clear motherboard components.

If we say the cooler manufacturers met recommendations, then it appears that Asus did not give that space on the mobo I have. I just received and fitted the Fuma 2. The slim fan will not fit on the ram side without hitting the ram. It might not be clear below, but the fan is sitting on top of the ram, while at the same time as far back onto the cooler as it will go. This is similar to what I saw with the Arctic 34. I'd have to assume if I had got the U12A, it would have suffered the same fate. Actually, the U12A would not be able to run two fans, so it would be worse hit than here where I have more mounting options.

 

 

The heatsink is highly asymmetric, so if I had got it the wrong way around, it would have been certainly covering the ram.

 

 

This is the arrangement I went for in the end, with the slim fan on the far side. The fan clips get very close but don't touch the GPU backplate. I cable managed it a bit better after that photo was taken, and I could route the splitter to the back and meet the fan cables via another hole.

 

Very quick temp testing:

Prime95 small FFT AVX-512 90C at 200W, under 70C at 125W.

Aida64 CPU+FPU+cache at 125W: under 70C

 

Bonus points for the correct answer: Which, if any, is hotter?

1: Prime95 small FFT AVX-512 running 8 threads on 125W power limit

2: Prime95 small FFT AVX-512 running 4 threads on 125W power limit

CPU is 8 core. Both are using 125W.

 

Some other random observations: the Fuma 2 seems to be a lower fin density, or for any other reason it feels relatively lightweight. Then again, I've used D15 as standard for a long time so most coolers are light compared to that.

[WoodenMarker]

4 hours ago, porina said:

If we say the cooler manufacturers met recommendations, then it appears that Asus did not give that space on the mobo I have. I just received and fitted the Fuma 2. The slim fan will not fit on the ram side without hitting the ram. It might not be clear below, but the fan is sitting on top of the ram, while at the same time as far back onto the cooler as it will go. This is similar to what I saw with the Arctic 34. I'd have to assume if I had got the U12A, it would have suffered the same fate. Actually, the U12A would not be able to run two fans, so it would be worse hit than here where I have more mounting options.

Manufacturers design with the socket clearance zones in mind but they can choose to not clear all of the zones. 

Is the fan centered and inset into the heatsink fins? There's a lip on both ends of the fin that surround the fan. Have you tried removing the rubber corners?

If it's a close fit, the tower may have also been bent a bit and too close to the slots. 

If you're not running an exhaust fan, using the cooler fan at the rear instead works well. 

 

The Tweaktown photos show that the front fan of the NH-U12A better clears the ram slots than the Fuma 2. 

[porina]

8 hours ago, WoodenMarker said:

Is the fan centered and inset into the heatsink fins? There's a lip on both ends of the fin that surround the fan. Have you tried removing the rubber corners?

It was located in the recess. I didn't try removing the rubber bits. 

 

8 hours ago, WoodenMarker said:

If it's a close fit, the tower may have also been bent a bit and too close to the slots. 

Not a chance. The difference between my system and the TT image would require a massive bend that would be blindly obvious.

 

8 hours ago, WoodenMarker said:

The Tweaktown photos show that the front fan of the NH-U12A better clears the ram slots than the Fuma 2. 

They didn't use a front telecentric lens (or approximation thereof) for the photos, which means even small shifts in camera location can cause significant differences in appearance due to perspective effects. As such I wouldn't read that difference as significant, only useful for a general indication. For those not familiar with that type of lens, it is used for some specialist imaging, and has the useful characteristic that two straight lines perpendicular to the sensor will not diverge/converge with distance as would be the case with normal lenses. A close approximation can be obtained by having the camera very far from the subject, implying you'll need a long focal length lens (high zoom).

 

That aside, the Fuma 2 is slightly worse than the Arctic 34 was. On the Arctic, the fan could just fit between cooler and ram, but it pushed on the side of the ram. The Fuma 2 fan did not even fit down there. So there are small variations between them, and I still doubt the U12A would have allowed the fan to fit comfortably.

 

I do like and own many Noctua coolers, but it just doesn't feel like the best fit for this particular use case, even before the fan clearance problem.

[Dogzilla07]

@porina

 

Noctua NH-D15S seems like an ideal fit for you use case. Height is 160mm, it's offset away from the GPU, so no clearance issues towards the GPU. And lastly because there's no front fan, and the cut-out for RAM is huge (65mm), all of your RAM would fit easily.

 

And the one mid fan is more than enough, because the difference between 1 or 2 fans is ~2-3 degrees, but u reduced noise in return. And there's also no need for second fan on the back, if u need exhaust, a separate exhaust fan mounted on the case would be a perfect fit.

 

With the FUMA 2 u've basically got the same setup now, with slightly less performance, and that tight GPU fit (but because it still fits, no need to change anything).

 

As for the fin density, it is paired to the speed/static pressure of the fan. The slower the fan the less density works well for low TDP. The faster the fan, the higher density and thus performance works well regardless of the TDP (but quite useful for high TDP).

 

Same with static pressure, a slow fan with not ideal static pressure benefits from low fin density, while the other way around u need a beefier fan.

[porina]

10 minutes ago, Dogzilla07 said:

Noctua NH-D15S seems like an ideal fit for you use case. Height is 160mm, it's offset away from the GPU, so no clearance issues towards the GPU. And lastly because there's no front fan, and the cut-out for RAM is huge (65mm), all of your RAM would fit easily.

I totally missed the D15S is not just the D15 with a single fan. Didn't realise they shifted it away from the PCIe slot, which would have made it usable in this case. I think I would have preferred that over the Fuma 2.

 

But, I got the Fuma 2 installed and it does the job. If I ever need another cooler with similar requirements I'd certainly give the D15S another look.

[WoodenMarker]

15 hours ago, porina said:

They didn't use a front telecentric lens (or approximation thereof) for the photos, which means even small shifts in camera location can cause significant differences in appearance due to perspective effects. As such I wouldn't read that difference as significant, only useful for a general indication. For those not familiar with that type of lens, it is used for some specialist imaging, and has the useful characteristic that two straight lines perpendicular to the sensor will not diverge/converge with distance as would be the case with normal lenses. A close approximation can be obtained by having the camera very far from the subject, implying you'll need a long focal length lens (high zoom).

The side of the ram and coolers are similarly far away from the camera so the closest edge is a decent reference. Most components seem to line up fine with some scaling and no distortion when overlaying the two images. 

Photos aside, specs indicate that the base center point of the NH-U12A is 47.5mm away from the front fan edge compared to 50mm from the Fuma 2. That 2.5mm difference seems to be about the same difference shown in the Tweaktown photos. 

Spoiler

https://www.scythe-eu.com/en/products/cpu-cooler/fuma-2.html

https://noctua.at/en/how-big-is-the-nh-u12a-and-how-much-clearance-does-it-provide-for-ram-and-motherboard-heatsinks

 

12 hours ago, Dogzilla07 said:

Noctua NH-D15S

there's no front fan, and the cut-out for RAM is huge (65mm), all of your RAM would fit easily.

The front fan on the Fuma 2 can be raised over the ram. A heatsink hanging over the ram instead isn't any more convenient.

[Dogzilla07]

6 hours ago, WoodenMarker said:

The front fan on the Fuma 2 can be raised over the ram. A heatsink hanging over the ram instead isn't any more convenient.

Technically yes (for a big chunk of builds), but practically no, in a height limited case raising a fan over relatively tall ram is impossible, while a over-ram hanging heatsink means there's no issue with a case height limit being the same as the heatsink height itself, 160mm=160-~163mm for instance.

 

The available pool of possible case + ram combinations is the absolute highest with a heatsink hanging over the ram. It was one of the reason's why i discarded Fuma 2 and a host of other coolers when chosing the perfect cooler in all metrics for any situation and settled on the NH-D15S (My other close top pick was Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT), but NH-D15S can easily fit a 30mm fat sterrox-like fan (Phanteks T30-140) in between towers and LGMRT can't for the exact same reason as discussed in this topic.

 

And technically you can do the same thing and keep 1 mid fan with Fuma 2 or put the front fan back, but again the NH-D15S is chunkier and denser and has a better static pressure fan than the Fuma 2 which means more headroom, which in turn means i can get away with no exhaust fan behind for a number of cases i might switch to.

[porina]

 

4 minutes ago, Dogzilla07 said:

Technically yes (for a big chunk of builds), but practically no, in a height limited case raising a fan over relatively tall ram is impossible, while a over-ram hanging heatsink means there's no issue with a case height limit being the same as the the heatsink height itself, 160mm=160-~163mm for instance.

That was the scenario here. A 120mm fan will not go above the ram and still fit within the case.

[Dogzilla07]

It's all a bit too much future proofing I reckon xD (5+ years best pick at least), and a refusal to ever use any fans other than 140mm ones in the future. As well as an extremely narrow choice of fans, intending to only use upcoming Noctua Liquid-Crystal Polymer / Phanteks LCP 140mm fans on the NH-D15S. Not a lot of dual tower heatsinks have room for 30mm in between towers, and thankfully Phanteks signaled it intended to have it's next-gen fans be 30mm wide right about as a I was in the market for a new heatsink.

 

Never the less, Fuma 2 is more than capable of running most processors, like @porina can currently attest to.