Jump to content

Is B-die worth it? I will NOT overclock anything.

Guest

Hi everyone,

 

Short version: Is B-die worth it if you won't overclock?

Side question: Spend $100 extra on B-die C16 or on regular C14?

 

Long version:

I'm planning to buy a 5950x and a MSI B550 MEG Unify AMD AM4 ATX motherboard.

My use case is numerical simulations:

* I need MOAR (and faster) COREZ!!!11!11! (threadrippers are too expensive, sad face.)

* All (but one) of the cores will run at 100% for days per simulation.

* Running for *days* at 100% means no overclocking. I'd like to be able to use this computer for a number of years.

* I need min 32GB memory, but the more the merrier--except my budget is finite. I was told by the helpful folks at Microcenter that 3600MHz CL16 RAM would work great OOB. (G.Skill Ripjaws V 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3600 PC4-28800 CL16 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit F4-3600C16D-32GVKC - Black is what they suggested.)

 

(Unrelated, but I don't need blazing fast storage. The result of that days of run is a measly 10MB text file. A regular nvme drive is what I need. Ironic that the results --hopefully-- will help in a tiny teensy way in building quantum computers. 😄 These simulations will be the "pre-runs" before I send the real job to the HPC of my institution.)

 

I could spend $100 more on the memory if it will be worth it. However, seeing as I won't overclock, and noting that at this time, high speed rams aren't rare anymore... Maybe other chip makers have learned to make good dies? I don't know.

 

Thank you all! 🙂

 

 

Edited by pekirt
Typo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, I wouldn't bother. The Ripjaws kit is more than fine enough, and I've had kits of that stuff running for years with no issues. That being said, if you want the extra stability, the question shouldn't be "should I get B-die?" but rather "should I get ECC?" I would consider that far more worth it than any B-die memory for what you're doing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

I almost always suggest B-Die kits. It's a top quality kit. Overclocking or not. Will retain a higher value over most other dies/kits. Proven overclocking and stability. 

None of that doesn't mean other die makes won't work though. 

And the memory controller is good up to 3200mt/s, so something to think about when you say NOT going to OC, well a 3600mt/s kit is an OC kit by standards. 

On that note, 3200mt/s 14-14-14-14-34 timings (B-Die) will bring pretty good performance and stability without having to worry. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Ronothan. (**goes off to google what ECC is...) (EDIT: Ah, error correction code memory. I hadn't thought of that.)

Edited by pekirt
Updated answer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you aren't going to overclock, you don't need to care about what chips are in your RAM. If your simulations require high memory bandwidth then higher speed and lower timings can help, but it doesn't matter what particular chips you get as long as they hit the same numbers.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

Desktop:

Intel Core i7-11700K | Noctua NH-D15S chromax.black | ASUS ROG Strix Z590-E Gaming WiFi  | 32 GB G.SKILL TridentZ 3200 MHz | ASUS TUF Gaming RTX 3080 | 1TB Samsung 980 Pro M.2 PCIe 4.0 SSD | 2TB WD Blue M.2 SATA SSD | Seasonic Focus GX-850 Fractal Design Meshify C Windows 10 Pro

 

Laptop:

HP Omen 15 | AMD Ryzen 7 5800H | 16 GB 3200 MHz | Nvidia RTX 3060 | 1 TB WD Black PCIe 3.0 SSD | 512 GB Micron PCIe 3.0 SSD | Windows 11

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now, pekirt said:

Thank you Ronothan. (**goes off to google what ECC is...)

Error correcting code. If there is a problem with the memory, it will be able to correct a bit flip, or in some cases let you know if two bits got flipped, and give you a warning. It's a feature that's critical in the data center and a lot of workstations use it by default. If can let you know if something is starting to fail, and a critical part of getting 100% uptime of the system, as well as making sure the results you're getting are 100% accurate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you everyone. All worth considering. For ECC, I need to check if my intended mobo supports it I guess. Also I'd be having 20%less mem, but more reliable results.

 

As ShrimpBrime said, b-die would mean quality and longevity, but as BonVonBob said, it won't give me any speed advantage and other mem would last long enough.

 

I'm inverting very many and very large sparse matrices and then doing matrix multiplications with the (non-sparse) inverses. I need both large mem (to be able to work at all) and large mem bandwidth/speed (efficient linalg/sparse methods need lots of mem bandwidth AFAIK).

 

I understand what's going on better now. Thanks all!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, pekirt said:

I'm planning to buy a 5950x and a MSI B550 MEG Unify AMD AM4 ATX motherboard.

image.thumb.png.2e38223215eb60403c9218e4740427d2.png

The mobo you picked^

8 minutes ago, pekirt said:

Thank you Ronothan. (**goes off to google what ECC is...) (EDIT: Ah, error correction code memory. I hadn't thought of that.)

You will want to pick a different mobo if you go with ECC RAM.

Something like this:

image.thumb.png.4774972dc1ccb30310a1aa0b2803b009.png

 

VGhlIHF1aWV0ZXIgeW91IGJlY29tZSwgdGhlIG1vcmUgeW91IGFyZSBhYmxlIHRvIGhlYXIu

^ not a crypto wallet

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, pekirt said:

Hi everyone,

 

Short version: Is B-die worth it if you won't overclock?

Side question: Spend $100 extra on B-die C16 or on regular C14?

 

Long version:

I'm planning to buy a 5950x and a MSI B550 MEG Unify AMD AM4 ATX motherboard.

My use case is numerical simulations:

* I need MOAR (and faster) COREZ!!!11!11! (threadrippers are too expensive, sad face.)

* All (but one) of the cores will run at 100% for days per simulation.

* Running for *days* at 100% means no overclocking. I'd like to be able to use this computer for a number of years.

* I need min 32GB memory, but the more the merrier--except my budget is finite. I was told by the helpful folks at Microcenter that 3600MHz CL16 RAM would work great OOB. (G.Skill Ripjaws V 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3600 PC4-28800 CL16 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit F4-3600C16D-32GVKC - Black is what they suggested.)

 

(Unrelated, but I don't need blazing fast storage. The result of that days of run is a measly 10MB text file. A regular nvme drive is what I need. Ironic that the results --hopefully-- will help in a tiny teensy way in building quantum computers. 😄 These simulations will be the "pre-runs" before I send the real job to the HPC of my institution.)

 

I could spend $100 more on the memory if it will be worth it. However, seeing as I won't overclock, and noting that at this time, high speed rams aren't rare anymore... Maybe other chip makers have learned to make good dies? I don't know.

 

Thank you all! 🙂

 

 

B die is completely useless for you

 

So is any ocing board like the b550 unify

Same goes for any beefy aio (280mm+) or beefy dual tower (nhd15 drp4)

 

 

Board wise go for a b550 tomahawk or a pro

 

Cooler wise go for a fuma 2 or phantom (decent mid range dual towers not beefy expensive dual towers)

 

Ram wise just get whatever 3200mhz cl16 or 3600mhz cl16 kit you can find, doesnt really matter much unless its below 3200mhz

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

So is any ocing board like the b550 unify

I wanted the VRMs to be good, better than what an average user of 5950x needed, because... well.. "100% load for days" thing. The B550 Unify mobo was recommended by Microcenter folks on that basis. I'm aware that there's a lot of specs on that mobo that I really don't need. I'd love a cheaper-but-solid-and-good-VRMs mobo, definitely.

EDIT: on paper, I don't need the high quality/number of VRMs either, but I'd like to run at, say, 50% of max available power with high quality than, say, 80% of max available power with average quality. I suspect it would be more reliable in the long run.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, pekirt said:

I wanted the VRMs to be good, better than what an average user of 5950x needed, because... well.. "100% load for days" thing. The B550 Unify mobo was recommended by Microcenter folks on that basis. I'm aware that there's a lot of specs on that mobo that I really don't need. I'd love a cheaper-but-solid-and-good-VRMs mobo, definitely.

Lmao

 

B550 unify is an overclocking board, actually its one of the best b550 ocing boards you can get

 

Just get a b550 tomahawk instead, vrms are rated as s- class in the mobo vrm tier list (someone insert link pls), aka very good vrms and more than enough for an overclocked 5950x

 

Just dont listen to the microcenter folks, theyll prob just tell you to buy the most expensive sht you dont need cause its expensive and theyll get more profit margin or something

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, pekirt said:

* I need min 32GB memory, but the more the merrier--except my budget is finite. I was told by the helpful folks at Microcenter that 3600MHz CL16 RAM would work great OOB. (G.Skill Ripjaws V 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3600 PC4-28800 CL16 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit F4-3600C16D-32GVKC - Black is what they suggested.)

I found this link: https://www.microcenter.com/product/613487/gskill-ripjaws-v-32gb-(2-x-16gb)-ddr4-3600-pc4-28800-cl16-dual-channel-desktop-memory-kit-f4-3600c16d-32gvkc-black

If you're paying $170 for that memory kit, I'd try to see if it's doable to get a 2x32gb 3200mhz kit for not much more.

 

Or, as others mentioned, go for ECC, just remember to look for UNBUFFERED/UNREGISTERED DIMMS, otherwise it won't work with your CPU.

FX6300 @ 4.2GHz | Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 R2 | Hyper 212x | 3x 8GB + 1x 4GB @ 1600MHz | Gigabyte 2060 Super | Corsair CX650M | LG 43UK6520PSA
ASUS X550LN | i5 4210u | 12GB
Lenovo N23 Yoga

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

Error correcting code. If there is a problem with the memory, it will be able to correct a bit flip, or in some cases let you know if two bits got flipped, and give you a warning. It's a feature that's critical in the data center and a lot of workstations use it by default. If can let you know if something is starting to fail, and a critical part of getting 100% uptime of the system, as well as making sure the results you're getting are 100% accurate.

and here we go off the deep end.  That mobo SPECIFICALLY states it will not accept ECC ram (page 15 of the English v1.1 manual), as do the manuals of nearly every board released to the masses.  Outside of server boards, ECC ram is usually not supported.  If you are lucky, you waste your money on a feature that you can't enable, if you are unlucky: the system won't boot at all.  Don't buy ecc ram for consumer boards.

It must be true, I read it on the internet...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, shoutingsteve said:

and here we go off the deep end.  That mobo SPECIFICALLY states it will not accept ECC ram (page 15 of the English v1.1 manual), as do the manuals of nearly every board released to the masses.  Outside of server boards, ECC ram is usually not supported.  If you are lucky, you waste your money on a feature that you can't enable, if you are unlucky: the system won't boot at all.  Don't buy ecc ram for consumer boards.

Except a decent amount of AMD boards support unregistered ECC. You do need to find one that does, but for a system that he wants 100% uptime, it would probably be worth going through the effort of getting it running.

 

The B550 Tomahawk supports ECC, costs a bit less, and therefore you can run it with ECC. I'd say it would be worth it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

I got a B550 tomahawk for my build. I also don't overclock, but I had read that it had good VRM. Was one of my deciding factors. You'd probably be fine with this one if it saves you a bit and offsets the memory upgrade.

5600x/RTX 4080

 

“1. Never tell everything at once.” - Ken Venturi's Two Great Rules of Life

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Ronothan, ShrimpBrine, BonVonBob, Biohazard777, Somerandomtechyboi, igormp, shoutingsteve, varrys for the answers. Dropping down to a Tomahawk and buying more memory at 3200 (ECC or not, maybe with better timings) seems the way to go for my use case, because I also need a lot of memory. I was thinking of 2x16GB before (and another 2x16GB at a later date), but maybe I can do better within my budget (~$1200-1300 with tax). Now I know what to research.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, pekirt said:

.

there's no risk involved in going with cl16 3600 or cl14 3200, there is however a risk going with ECC and have it not work, just make sure you have someone to troubleshoot for you (in person if possible if that happens) personally my recommendation is 2x16 3600 non-ECC with a tomahawk, though if you are gonna have a 24/7 uptime on it, consider the fanless dark hero.

5950x 1.33v 5.05 4.5 88C 195w ll R20 12k ll drp4 ll x570 dark hero ll gskill 4x8gb 3666 14-14-14-32-320-24-2T (zen trfc)  1.45v 45C 1.15v soc ll 6950xt gaming x trio 325w 60C ll samsung 970 500gb nvme os ll sandisk 4tb ssd ll 6x nf12/14 ippc fans ll tt gt10 case ll evga g2 1300w ll w10 pro ll 34GN850B ll AW3423DW

 

9900k 1.36v 5.1avx 4.9ring 85C 195w (daily) 1.02v 4.3ghz 80w 50C R20 temps score=5500 ll D15 ll Z390 taichi ult 1.60 bios ll gskill 4x8gb 14-14-14-30-280-20 ddr3666bdie 1.45v 45C 1.22sa/1.18 io  ll EVGA 30 non90 tie ftw3 1920//10000 0.85v 300w 71C ll  6x nf14 ippc 2000rpm ll 500gb nvme 970 evo ll l sandisk 4tb sata ssd +4tb exssd backup ll 2x 500gb samsung 970 evo raid 0 llCorsair graphite 780T ll EVGA P2 1200w ll w10p ll NEC PA241w ll pa32ucg-k

 

prebuilt 5800 stock ll 2x8gb ddr4 cl17 3466 ll oem 3080 0.85v 1890//10000 290w 74C ll 27gl850b ll pa272w ll w11

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

I already have a Noctua NH15 sitting in my (very) old PC, I had bought it in advance for this build.

 

It won't be 24/7, but it will be 2-3 days of nonstop high intensity work and then off for a couple of days.

 

I definitely need to research ECC before deciding on it.

 

Troubleshooting-wise... I'm of the generation that had to deal with autoexec.bat and config.sys. I'm not up to speed (my last build was a decade ago), but I could be--however, time is valuable. Less troubleshooting is good. 😉

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, pekirt said:

I already have a Noctua NH15 sitting in my (very) old PC, I had bought it in advance for this build.

 

It won't be 24/7, but it will be 2-3 days of nonstop high intensity work and then off for a couple of days.

 

I definitely need to research ECC before deciding on it.

 

Troubleshooting-wise... I'm of the generation that had to deal with autoexec.bat and config.sys. I'm not up to speed (my last build was a decade ago), but I could be--however, time is valuable. Less troubleshooting is good. 😉

Oh, then ECC is not really needed. From what I've tested with my 64gb of ram, you usually see random bitflips once a month, so it's more relevant when you have large amounts of ram and run 24/7 (which increase the probabilities of bitlips a lot)

 

IMO, you should try to go with 2x32gb sticks :old-tongue:

FX6300 @ 4.2GHz | Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 R2 | Hyper 212x | 3x 8GB + 1x 4GB @ 1600MHz | Gigabyte 2060 Super | Corsair CX650M | LG 43UK6520PSA
ASUS X550LN | i5 4210u | 12GB
Lenovo N23 Yoga

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×